Xref: news.uiowa.edu alt.alien.visitors:8014 alt.paranormal:5604 Newsgroups: ba.seminars,alt.alien.visitors,alt.paranormal Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!stanford.edu!morrow.stanford.edu!decwrl!rtech!angular!jas From: jas@angular.uucp (Jim Shankland) Subject: Re: Viewing High Strangeness Material Message-ID: <1992Aug6.203830.7915@angular.uucp> Reply-To: angular!jas@netcom.com Organization: Angular Systems References: <63493@cup.portal.com> Distribution: usa Date: Thu, 6 Aug 1992 20:38:30 GMT Lines: 24 In article <63493@cup.portal.com> thad@cup.portal.com (Thad P Floryan) writes: >In article >jdr@starflight.Corp.Sun.COM (Jon Roland) writes: > >| [...] >| A private remote-viewing group of scientists and engineers is now accepting >| new members. If you are intellectually curious you will enjoy this unusual >| form of recreation. The material we will view includes well-substantiated >| [...] > >What is "remote-viewing"? It is the process of viewing (and hearing) a replication of events that are spatially, and possibly temporally, displaced from the current space-time co-ordinates of the viewer, with the aid of an electronic device. By adjusting a filter on the device, the device can be "tuned" to particular "channels" in the space-time continuum. It turns out, however, that not all such "channels" are suitable for the intellectually curious; some are hopelessly saturated by alien beings attempting to sell merchandise. Oh, also, "remote-viewing" is more commonly referred to as "television." jas Xref: news.uiowa.edu alt.alien.visitors:8015 alt.conspiracy:17537 alt.activism:30761 sci.skeptic:28578 misc.headlines:23317 Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy,alt.activism,sci.skeptic,misc.headlines,alt.po Path: news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!rpi!newsserver.pixel.kodak.com!kodak!clpd.kodak.com!li!fischer From: fischer@li.serum.kodak.com (Chris Fischer (x39613)) Subject: Re: UFO "October Surprise" and USA TAKEOVER?! Message-ID: <1992Aug6.192350.27305@clpd.kodak.com> Sender: news@clpd.kodak.com Nntp-Posting-Host: li Organization: Eastman Kodak References: <1992Aug2.060950.29308@cbnewse.cb.att.com> <8B91oB1w165w@bluemoon.rn.com> <1992Aug6.143155.25460@mcshub.dcss.mcmaster.ca> Date: Thu, 6 Aug 1992 19:23:50 GMT Lines: 16 In article <1992Aug6.143155.25460@mcshub.dcss.mcmaster.ca> bunker@physun.physics.mcmaster.ca (Alex Bunker) writes: >In article <8B91oB1w165w@bluemoon.rn.com> garys@bluemoon.rn.com (Gary Stollman) writes: [gun comments from Gary's clone] > > >In waht way are Canadians Germans UKers and Frenchman less "free" >than americans. >. To start with, they are not free to carry guns. -- Chris Fischer (fischer@serum.clpd.KODAK.com) They never even listen to my opinion, why would they make it policy? "The healthy gum tissue of our liberties are being eaten away by the periodontal disease of government regulation." - D.Barry Xref: news.uiowa.edu alt.alien.visitors:8016 alt.conspiracy:17539 alt.activism:30764 sci.skeptic:28580 misc.headlines:23319 Path: news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sdd.hp.com!mips!pacbell.com!pacbell!oracle!unrepliable!bounce Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy,alt.activism,sci.skeptic,misc.headlines,alt.politics.bush.talk.politics.guns From: mfriedma@uucp (Michael Friedman) Subject: Re: A racist argument against handgun control legislation. Message-ID: <1992Aug6.180124.5853@oracle.us.oracle.com> Sender: usenet@oracle.us.oracle.com (Oracle News Poster) Nntp-Posting-Host: appseq Organization: Oracle Corporation References: <1992Aug2.162931.26755@mcshub.dcss.mcmaster.ca> <1992Aug4.124014.15095@lmpsbbs.comm.mot.com> <1992Aug5.092544.25579@etek.chalmers.se> Date: Thu, 6 Aug 1992 18:01:24 GMT X-Disclaimer: This message was written by an unauthenticated user at Oracle Corporation. The opinions expressed are those of the user and not necessarily those of Oracle. Lines: 52 In article <1992Aug5.092544.25579@etek.chalmers.se> lindq@etek.chalmers.se (Johan Lindqvist) writes: >markr@mot.com (Mark) writes: >|> >>First of all, The question was why shouldn't LAW-ABIDING people own weapons. >|> >>Law-Abiding people don't murder people. (by definition) >|> As a matter of fact, my point is, Why should law-abiding people not be >|> allowed to own weapons ? >Because if (all) people own weapons, they become more widespread, also >among criminals. And are peple born criminals? No. They become criminals >by oppurtunity. Johan, you may become a criminal "by opportunity" but other people become criminals because they are assholes. In fact, if you believe that the only thing it would take to make you commit a robbery, rape, or murder is the opportunity then you're an asshole too. On the other hand, you may just be guilty of unclear thinking. >And one important thing when committing a crime like >robbery, murder or rape is to be able to threat and harm the victim, which >is easily done with a gun. Ever use a knife? It's easy to hurt people with them too. I've had it done to me and I've got the scars to prove it. You can also hurt people with your bare hands. The guy who pinked me got his face smashed in on a parking meter. One of the nice things about a gun, however, is that it evens the odds between the fit and the unfit. As most violent criminals are young males that means it alters the odds in favor of victims. >Conclution: >If guns are not so wide spread, criminals would have a hard time getting >them, and violent crimes would, hopefully, be reduced. Your premise has an obvius corollary - law abiding citizens also would be less likely to own guns. Please explain why you think there would be more crime in a society where gun ownership is widespread among both law-abiding citizens and criminals than one where guns are rare in both groups. As a final exercise, please factor in the fact that criminals are, almost by definition, more willing to break the law than law abiding citizens and that therefore gun laws reduce gun ownership more among law abiding citizens than among criminals. Thanks -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I am not an official Oracle spokesman. I speak for myself and no one else. Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!Jeffrey_-_Papineau From: Jeffrey_-_Papineau@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: THE NATURE OF REALITY(was Is Bigfoot a Visitor?) Message-ID: <63513@cup.portal.com> Date: Thu, 6 Aug 92 15:41:43 PDT Organization: The Portal System (TM) Distribution: world References: <63490@cup.portal.com> Lines: 23 I know what an effort it is to make a post such as yours, and I just wanted to say thanks for the support, and the very clear ideas presented. Yes, Matrix has some wierd stuff in it, but the more I look into it, much of it can be corraborated by at least one other source that has similar infor mation, so for me, much of it has at least the air of possibility for me, if not likelyhood. An example of this is the tunnel system. There is evedence that supports the existance of Dulce. At least 5 eyewitnesses have made reports on it. There is no indication that these people are conspiring together to comit a hoax. So maybe ther is a 50/50 chance Dulce is a real place. Put that together with known info that Bechtel does have tunneling equipment that can melt rock and tunnle in a perfeclty straight fashion. then put that together with US World News report that documents 50 different underground bases, some of them cities underground. Add to that Pine Gap, 50 multi-level buildings underground in the Australian outback. Put that together with Bob Lazar, and others interviewed who have seen the inside of Area 51, china lake, Edwards, Nellis, Northrup... It becomes likely that at least some of the tunnel/underground base theories are true. The more you find out, the uglier it gets I'm afraid. thanks again for the great post. Love to hear from you, and if the group does not improve, we can start a mailing list! Jeff- Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!destroyer!ubc-cs!mprgate.mpr.ca!mprgate.mpr.ca!spani From: spani@mprgate.mpr.ca (Leonard Spani) Subject: Re: Where are you ET? (was Re: Moon Activities?) Message-ID: <1992Aug6.223529.7073@mprgate.mpr.ca> Followup-To: alt.alien.visitors Sender: news@mprgate.mpr.ca Organization: MPR Teltech Ltd., Burnaby, B.C., Canada References: <139502.2A79E0E1@paranet.FIDONET.ORG> <1992Aug5.092002.400@crc.ac.uk> <1992Aug6.140606.19606@acd4.acd.com> Date: Thu, 6 Aug 92 22:35:29 GMT Lines: 90 In article <1992Aug6.140606.19606@acd4.acd.com>, gvb@TEFS1.acd.com (Gregg Brown) writes: |> In article <1992Aug5.092002.400@crc.ac.uk> sgamble@crc.ac.uk (Steve Gamble x3293) writes: |> |> [Content of Michael Corbin's message and Steve's response deleted] |> |> > |> >POSTSCRIPT: |> > |> >Around 90% of UFO reports can be explained after careful investigation |> >to be mis-identifications of man-made objects or of natural phenomena. |> |> I believe this is correct. Can anyone substantiate this? I can't quantify it, but I have read many times that between 90 and 95 percent of all UFO reports can be explained by natural phenomenon and misidentification of man-made objects, leaving 5 to 10 percent as "unexplained". Of the unexplained sightings, some have insuffucient data to allow an explanation, and some have data that effectivly rules out natural/man-made phenomena (i.e. little grey pilots witnessed by 12 reliable witnesses.) |> |> |> >Around six months ago, I posted inviting those people who felt that |> >the remaining 10% could be explained as being Flying Saucers (i.e |> >extraterrestrial spacecraft) to present their evidence. |> > |> >This generated zero response. Does this mean you guys have no |> >evidence? Here is another chance to present it. |> |> Maybe they were just shy. Just kidding... There is *no* irrefutable, undeniable, absolute evidence that UFOs are extraterrestrial in origin. If there was, why would any of us be debating it? The extraterrestrial hypothesis is just a hypothesis. There is evidence that seems to support it, but as I said, nothing conclusive. I think a lot of people didn't answer Steve's request for that reason. Not that they are non-believers in the ETH, just that they can't prove anything about the ETH. |> This whole thing is so |> volatile that in a lot of cases, I see people shying away from non |> believers. You may have presented the question that led people to |> think what you were really asking was: "Hey! stupid UFO/Alien believers, |> come make fool out of yourselves and give me some proof to this |> malarky so I can laugh at you even more because I will never believe |> it even if they land in my front yard and knock on my door." I am not |> saying you were inappropriate in your asking of the questions, I am |> just saying that they may of percieved you as being a "non believer |> no matter what". Try asking your question again. Make it sound like |> you want to believe. I bet you won't be able to read all the |> responses. I think most people reading this newsgroup would want to believe that extraterrestrial life exists (abduction victims aside ;^) and is visiting the earth. I would love to find some undeniable proof of the ETH, but I haven't come across any yet. Until the UFO mystery is solved I will continue to have an open mind and examine all possibilities. I don't think questioning the ETH is a valid reason to think someone is a "non believer no matter what". The most likely reason people didn't respond to Steve was probably apathy and/or not having enough time to give the question the response it deserves. |> |> > |> >Steve. |> |> |> Gregg. |> |> |> Leonard. -- *********************************************************************** | Leonard E. Spani | //!?\\ | (disclaimer-p) | | spani@mprgate.mpr.ca | \\?!// | t | *****************-<( "everybody thinks I'm paranoid" )>-*************** Xref: news.uiowa.edu alt.alien.visitors:8019 talk.religion.newage:11110 sci.skeptic:28582 Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!Jeffrey_-_Papineau From: Jeffrey_-_Papineau@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,talk.religion.newage,sci.skeptic Subject: Re: Hatton: CIA or ET Message-ID: <63514@cup.portal.com> Date: Thu, 6 Aug 92 15:51:40 PDT Organization: The Portal System (TM) References: <63423@cup.portal.com> <2398@israel.nysernet.org> Lines: 32 Oh my! Fradulent channelers! How do we distinguish between the real thing and Brand X? Well, very good question, and no truely good answer I' m afraid. It will basically come down to your intuitive powers after a time of exposing yourself to the real thing. You will learn to tap into your intuitive power that most people deny exists, yet is a very real source of information. People like Einstien and DaVinci were good at it, and we can be too. Learn about channeling, the christ plane, and the ascended masters. The channel from a very high plane of conciousness and it is very soothing to be in the presense of these masters. REad Life and Teachings of the Masters of the Far East (5 book set). Many other sources of information on the nature of spritual evolution. then start reading the Ra Materials, Ruth Montgomery, or the Tuella books. They have a great deal of valuable information that can help you to form your own hypothesis about UFO's, regardless of what you believe or do not in their messages. Hypothysis is the first step to solving a problem, and we draw them from the ether as it were. Jeff- ok ok ok Xref: news.uiowa.edu alt.alien.visitors:8020 alt.conspiracy:17541 alt.activism:30767 sci.skeptic:28583 misc.headlines:23320 alt.politics.bush:1655 Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy,alt.activism,sci.skeptic,misc.headlines,alt.politics.bush Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!destroyer!fmsrl7!lynx!carina.unm.edu!cary From: cary@carina.unm.edu (Ithlial the Archer) Subject: Re: UFO "October Surprise" and USA TAKEOVER?! Message-ID: Date: Thu, 06 Aug 92 22:32:51 GMT Organization: University of New Mexico, Albuquerque References: <1992Aug1.041842.19761@galileo.cc.rochester.edu> <1992Aug1.073525.15555@hubcap.clemson.edu> <829@tdat.teradata.COM> Lines: 30 In article <829@tdat.teradata.COM> swf@tdat.teradata.com (Stanley Friesen) writes: >In article <1992Aug1.073525.15555@hubcap.clemson.edu> trev@hubcap.clemson.edu (Trevor Bauknight) writes: >|Why would you have a problem with law-abiding citizens owning semiautomatic >|weapons? What harm could it possibly do? >| >How many articles about children/neighbors/spouses *accidentally* shot >by a too readily available weapon do you want me to post? >-- >Stanley.Friesen@ElSegundoCA.ncr.com If people would bother to learn how to handle guns then the incidence of accidental shootings would probably decrease. If they would bother to store weapons where children can't get to them they wouldn't be shooting eachother. Obviously owning a weapon be it a handgun or a RGP launcher requires bestows a great deal of responsiblity upon the owner. IMO if someone wants to purchase a weapon s/he should be required to take a safety course pertinent to the type of weapon desired and should have his/er crimminal record searched. Ithlial My opinions, mine, mine, mine! To me, boxing is like ballet, except there's no music, no choreography, and the dancers hit eachother. Path: news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!wupost!decwrl!deccrl!news.crl.dec.com!pa.dec.com!nntpd2.cxo.dec.com!nntpd.lkg.dec.com!sousa.ltn.dec.com!hawk1.enet.dec.com!bottom From: bottom@hawk1.enet.dec.com Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Gulf Breeze Six In The News Again Message-ID: <1468@sousa.ltn.dec.com> Date: 6 Aug 92 19:10:43 GMT References: <1992Aug5.143625.23178@engage.pko.dec.com> <63496@cup.portal.com> <1992Aug6.150936.19385@news.eng.convex.com> Sender: newsa@sousa.ltn.dec.com Reply-To: hedron::daveb Organization: ASO IM operations Lines: 26 Steve Warren writes: >Americans are too independant. There has to be a long-term focused propoganda >campaign before a society like ours will buy into something like that and >It took years for him to get Germany sufficiently dumbed-down to the point >that he could accomplish the sweeping atrocities he was responsible for. I'd have to say that after 8 years of Reagan and nearly 4 of Bush American's have shown that they are farily "dumbed down". And the "war" on drugs isn't a major propaganda campaign? It's used frequently to justify unnecessary police violence all over the country, and it seems like "dumbed down" Americans just eat that crap up. -- /dave +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | ESP, Steinberger, Fender, Kitty Hawk, Rivera, Rocktron, Alesis, Tascam, | | Metaltronix, EMG, Semour Duncan, D'Addario rock on! | | Midi rack pukes do it with 16 channels | | You make my life and times a book of bluesy Saturdays... | +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ Path: news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cis.ohio-state.edu!ucbvax!STRATUS.SWDC.STRATUS.COM!lpb From: lpb@STRATUS.SWDC.STRATUS.COM Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: UFO Convention in Arcadia CA???? Message-ID: <9208062222.AA12271@echidna.swdc.stratus.com> Date: 6 Aug 92 22:22:10 GMT Sender: daemon@ucbvax.BERKELEY.EDU Lines: 15 Would someone please help me with the following???? According to a chail letter that was left in my company mailbox, the document had no name or point of origin on it, it goes on to describe the events that happened at a UFO convention on July 4, 1992 at Arcadia California. Was there a UFO convention there?????? Was Michael Younger one of the speakers???? This is rather importanmt to me......if anyonehere can verify or invalidate this...PLEASE send Email at lpb@stratus.swdc.stratus.com Thank You, Len Xref: news.uiowa.edu alt.activism:30768 alt.alien.visitors:8023 alt.conspiracy:17542 misc.headlines:23321 sci.skeptic:28584 alt.politics.bush:1658 Organization: Masters student, Philosophy, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA Path: news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!pacific.mps.ohio-state.edu!cis.ohio-state.edu!news.sei.cmu.edu!fs7.ece.cmu.edu!crabapple.srv.cs.cmu.edu!andrew.cmu.edu!sr3j+ Newsgroups: alt.activism,alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy,misc.headlines,sci.skeptic,alt.politics.bush Message-ID: Date: Thu, 6 Aug 1992 17:06:17 -0400 From: Soren Renner Subject: Re: UFO "October Surprise" and USA TAKEOVER?! In-Reply-To: Lines: 16 *In regards to all this, has anyone heard about the LEIU(Law Enforcement *Investigative Unit) with considerable power in regards to insurections *on local USA soil? Are they training special members in secrecy just *to the west of New York? Is the disarming of the public a desirable *outcome for such authorities which may act under FEMA style constitution *suspension? * *Why are hidden departments putting such large funds into these issues *considerations with little or no constitutional public reveiw? Do the *Executive Orders really serve the public and constitution well? * *Questions, questions? Yea, I have a couple of questions. What are you talking about? and Don't you think the ALIENS might be behind all these COINCIDENCES? Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!destroyer!ubc-cs!mprgate.mpr.ca!mprgate.mpr.ca!spani From: spani@mprgate.mpr.ca (Leonard Spani) Subject: Re: We have met the enemy and they are us. Message-ID: <1992Aug6.225257.7362@mprgate.mpr.ca> Followup-To: alt.alien.visitors Sender: news@mprgate.mpr.ca Organization: MPR Teltech Ltd., Burnaby, B.C., Canada References: <3AUG199214163311@apsicc.aps.edu> <1992Aug4.192810.9808@acd4.acd.com> Date: Thu, 6 Aug 92 22:52:57 GMT Lines: 51 In article , nelson_p@apollo.hp.com (Peter Nelson) writes: |> In article <1992Aug4.192810.9808@acd4.acd.com> gvb@TEFS1.acd.com (Gregg Brown) writes: |> > |> >Thanks Jim. Thats an angle I had not approached. So far I have just |> >a few facts on all this "abduction thing". |> > |> >#1: They have and probably are occuring. This points out the fact that I |> > do not believe the people are "just dreaming". I beleive the events |> > really did take place, at least in some cases. In others, it may just |> > be a dream. The abductions are taking place. People are being (of have |> > been) examined. |> |> Why do you call this a "fact"? Or are you just referring to your belief |> as the fact, i.e., "It is a fact that I believe this."? |> |> In the absence of ANY physical evidence of adbuctions the best you can |> say about them is that they are *claims* of abduction. Some people |> have scars, but scars don't tell you much about their origin and |> certainly say nothing about abductions. Some people claim to have |> had removed artifacts implanted by the aliens, but no one has ever |> produced one of these for study. (although several have claimed to). |> |> The sheer number of people making abduction claims means nothing --- |> millions of people claim to have, or to have had, personal contact |> with God (or the diety of their choice) but this doesn't offer much |> persuasive evidence that God (or the diety of their choice) exists |> or has the attributes they ascribe to . |> |> So the bottom line is that there's no evidence that abductions deserve |> the moniker "fact". |> Well.. yes and no. The abduction phenomenon is as real as the UFO phenomenon. They are both "facts". What are not facts are the proposed causes of the phenomenon (i.e. the theories to explain the phenomenon (ETH, psychological, etc..)) |> |> ---peter |> |> |> |> -- *********************************************************************** | Leonard E. Spani | //!?\\ | (disclaimer-p) | | spani@mprgate.mpr.ca | \\?!// | t | *****************-<( "everybody thinks I'm paranoid" )>-*************** Path: news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!malgudi.oar.net!caen!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!usc!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!swrinde!mips!darwin.sura.net!jvnc.net!netnews.upenn.edu!grip.cis.upenn.edu!jmv From: jmv@grip.cis.upenn.edu (Jean-Marc Vezien) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: RE: THE NATURE OF REALITY Message-ID: <85509@netnews.upenn.edu> Date: 6 Aug 92 22:54:32 GMT References: <1992Aug6.192042.2994@usenet.ins.cwru.edu> Sender: news@netnews.upenn.edu Organization: GRASP Lab Lines: 22 Nntp-Posting-Host: grip.cis.upenn.edu In article <1992Aug6.192042.2994@usenet.ins.cwru.edu>, cc203@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (David R. Stepien) writes: > > > So lets just close our eyes and try and think up an explanation > for these things. Gee, what could it be? It must be the obvious > thing - ALIEN VISTORS - period. Well, unless an UFO lands in a civilized area where more than 100 people witness it (some photos/ film wouldn't be bad either), I'll stick to good ol' Occam: "It must be the obvious. Natural phenomenon, hoaxes or hallucinations". My usual critic against UFO explanation is: those aliens, who are SOOOO advanced that they can come to Earth, are also so darn stoopid that they experiment on cattle then put the dead meat back (why not jetison it in space ?), or make some strange lights and noise to attract the attention of the farmers around. Right ? Right. JM. Xref: news.uiowa.edu talk.religion.newage:11111 alt.alien.visitors:8026 sci.skeptic:28591 Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!gumby!wupost!darwin.sura.net!convex!schumach From: schumach@convex.com (Richard A. Schumacher) Subject: Re: Ride on John's Back, Please! (Was: Re: Get Off John's Back Message-ID: Sender: usenet@convex.com (news access account) Nntp-Posting-Host: starman.convex.com Organization: CONVEX Computer Corporation, Richardson, Tx., USA References: <1992Jul29.185219.29352@nntpd2.cxo.dec.com> <45868@shamash.cdc.com> <63079@cup.portal.com> <2379@israel.nysernet.org> <63292@cup.portal.com> <63361@cup.portal.com> <63388@cup.portal.com> <63420@cup.portal.com> Date: Fri, 7 Aug 1992 00:05:46 GMT X-Disclaimer: This message was written by a user at CONVEX Computer Corp. The opinions expressed are those of the user and not necessarily those of CONVEX. Lines: 11 In <63420@cup.portal.com> John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes: >Don't have time to say anything but this, remember tonight 1100 PM, >wednesday, astral blast off time, pacific daylight saving time. Don't >be late. You know, sir, a couple of Polaroids of the Earth taken from a hundred miles up with an astral pal in the foreground would shut all us nasty skeptics up, now and forever. How about it? I'll even reimburse you you for the film. Xref: news.uiowa.edu talk.religion.newage:11112 alt.alien.visitors:8027 sci.skeptic:28592 Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!gumby!wupost!darwin.sura.net!convex!schumach From: schumach@convex.com (Richard A. Schumacher) Subject: Re: Ride on John's Back, Please! (Was: Re: Get Off John's Back Message-ID: Sender: usenet@convex.com (news access account) Nntp-Posting-Host: starman.convex.com Organization: CONVEX Computer Corporation, Richardson, Tx., USA References: <1992Jul29.185219.29352@nntpd2.cxo.dec.com> <45868@shamash.cdc.com> <63079@cup.portal.com> <2379@israel.nysernet.org> <63292@cup.portal.com> <63361@cup.portal.com> <63388@cup.portal.com> <63465@cup.portal.com> Date: Fri, 7 Aug 1992 00:09:20 GMT X-Disclaimer: This message was written by a user at CONVEX Computer Corp. The opinions expressed are those of the user and not necessarily those of CONVEX. Lines: 9 In <63465@cup.portal.com> John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes: >out somewhere trying to get a picture of his or herself for me. This >sounds a lot like the comic routine called Who's on First. John Winston Ehh, not really. The other one was funnier, and we could at least take pictures of the principals. (Yours is goofier, I'll grant you.) Xref: news.uiowa.edu talk.religion.newage:11114 alt.alien.visitors:8029 sci.skeptic:28596 Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!pipex!unipalm!uknet!mucs!db.mcc.ac.uk!zlsiida From: zlsiida@fs1.mcc.ac.uk (dave budd) Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Subject: Re: Ride on John's Back, Please! (Was: Re: Get Off John's Back Message-ID: Date: 6 Aug 92 16:19:47 GMT References: <63498@cup.portal.com> Sender: news@cs.man.ac.uk Followup-To: talk.religion.newage Organization: Manchester Computing Centre Lines: 15 Originator: netnews@uts.mcc.ac.uk In article <63498@cup.portal.com> John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes: >to worry it will be back soon. I seem to have all sort of profound ^^^^ >thoughts. but he doesn't >a person has 7 bodies and they are called the physical, astral, >mental, emational, christed and soul. that's only 6 John. unless you're counting 'and' +---------------------------------------------------------------------+ | I don't take part in any sport that requires me to change clothes | | Dave Budd, MCC, Oxford Rd, Manchester, England (44)061-275-6033 | +---------------------------------------------------------------------+ Xref: news.uiowa.edu talk.religion.newage:11115 alt.alien.visitors:8030 sci.skeptic:28597 Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!gumby!wupost!darwin.sura.net!convex!schumach From: schumach@convex.com (Richard A. Schumacher) Subject: Re: Saga of the Family of Light I - Pleiadians13 Message-ID: Sender: usenet@convex.com (news access account) Nntp-Posting-Host: starman.convex.com Organization: CONVEX Computer Corporation, Richardson, Tx., USA References: <63422@cup.portal.com> Date: Fri, 7 Aug 1992 00:21:52 GMT X-Disclaimer: This message was written by a user at CONVEX Computer Corp. The opinions expressed are those of the user and not necessarily those of CONVEX. Lines: 14 In <63422@cup.portal.com> Don_-_Showen@cup.portal.com writes: >set around yourselves. Each of you believes ... that you have a > large picture, that you see many things. If not then I paid too much for my TV. Seriously: are any of the channelers of this stuff cancer patients? Or maybe collectors of old Aerobicise videos? ------------- MENTALLY, I am eating SOUR CREAM AND CHIVE RUFFLES at a C-ITOH TERMINAL near DALLAS TEXAS! Xref: news.uiowa.edu alt.alien.visitors:8031 alt.conspiracy:17548 alt.activism:30774 sci.skeptic:28598 misc.headlines:23323 Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy,alt.activism,sci.skeptic,misc.headlines,alt.politics.bush.talk.politics.guns Path: news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!usc!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!decwrl!adobe!pngai From: pngai@adobe.com (Phil Ngai) Subject: Re: A racist argument against handgun control legislation. Message-ID: <1992Aug7.003235.6500@adobe.com> Sender: usenet@adobe.com (USENET NEWS) Organization: Adobe Systems Incorporated References: <1992Aug2.162931.26755@mcshub.dcss.mcmaster.ca> <1992Aug4.124014.15095@lmpsbbs.comm.mot.com> <1992Aug5.092544.25579@etek.chalmers.se> Date: Fri, 7 Aug 1992 00:32:35 GMT Lines: 13 In article <1992Aug5.092544.25579@etek.chalmers.se> lindq@etek.chalmers.se (Johan Lindqvist) writes: >And are peple born criminals? No. They become criminals >by oppurtunity. I guess females should not go out on dates with you because if you get the "opportunity" to rape someone, you would do it. Most decent people are not like you, of course. -- My opinions are my own. A right delayed is a right denied. Xref: news.uiowa.edu alt.alien.visitors:8032 alt.conspiracy:17550 alt.activism:30775 sci.skeptic:28599 misc.headlines:23328 alt.politics.bush:1670 Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy,alt.activism,sci.skeptic,misc.headlines,alt.politics.bush Path: news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!wupost!gumby!destroyer!ubc-cs!mprgate.mpr.ca!mprgate.mpr.ca!spani From: spani@mprgate.mpr.ca (Leonard Spani) Subject: Re: UFO "October Surprise" and USA TAKEOVER?! Message-ID: <1992Aug7.001302.8228@mprgate.mpr.ca> Followup-To: talk.politics.guns Sender: news@mprgate.mpr.ca Organization: MPR Teltech Ltd., Burnaby, B.C., Canada References: <1992Aug1.041842.19761@galileo.cc.rochester.edu> <1992Aug1.073525.15555@hubcap.clemson.edu> <829@tdat.teradata.COM> Date: Fri, 7 Aug 92 00:13:02 GMT Lines: 13 In article , cary@carina.unm.edu (Ithlial the Archer) [...] Enough already! Get this topic out of alt.alien.visitors. -- *********************************************************************** | Leonard E. Spani | //!?\\ | (disclaimer-p) | | spani@mprgate.mpr.ca | \\?!// | t | *****************-<( "everybody thinks I'm paranoid" )>-*************** Xref: news.uiowa.edu alt.alien.visitors:8033 talk.religion.newage:11116 sci.skeptic:28600 Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!dtix!darwin.sura.net!convex!schumach From: schumach@convex.com (Richard A. Schumacher) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,talk.religion.newage,sci.skeptic Subject: Re: Hatton: CIA or ET Message-ID: Date: 7 Aug 92 00:38:38 GMT References: <63423@cup.portal.com> Sender: usenet@convex.com (news access account) Organization: CONVEX Computer Corporation, Richardson, Tx., USA Lines: 9 Nntp-Posting-Host: starman.convex.com X-Disclaimer: This message was written by a user at CONVEX Computer Corp. The opinions expressed are those of the user and not necessarily those of CONVEX. In <63423@cup.portal.com> Don_-_Showen@cup.portal.com writes: [a long harangue against bogus channelers (isn't that redundant?)] But _-_, how do you know that your Entities haven't been lying to you, using you to help soften up Earth for the invasion? What evidence do you have other than your own memories? Is there any evidence that remains for you to examine when They are not in your brain? Xref: news.uiowa.edu talk.religion.newage:11117 alt.alien.visitors:8034 sci.skeptic:28601 Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Subject: Re: Ride on John's Back, Please! (Was: Re: Get Off John's Back Message-ID: <63522@cup.portal.com> Date: Thu, 6 Aug 92 18:19:45 PDT Organization: The Portal System (TM) References: <63498@cup.portal.com> <85465@netnews.upenn.edu> Lines: 3 Dear JM: Thank you for being so kind to point out my mistake. The fifth body is the Etheric body and it is part of the three universal bodies. John Winston. Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!munnari.oz.au!metro!socs.uts.edu.au!kralizec!aldis From: aldis@kralizec.zeta.org.au (Aldis Ozols) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: John_-_Winston Poll Message-ID: <9637@kralizec.zeta.org.au> Date: 5 Aug 92 14:59:16 GMT References: <1992Jul27.171026.13467@odin.corp.sgi.com> <1992Aug4.000943.15980@trl.oz.au> Organization: Kralizec Dialup Unix Sydney: +61-2-837-1183 V.32 Lines: 13 jbm@hal.trl.OZ.AU (Jacques Guy) writes: >All in all, a welcome relief from the ponderous nonsense and >that includes many a self-styled professional skeptic, for which >read: a vociferous bonehead proud of the few scraps of science >it has managed to memorize by rote, uncomprehendingly. >Let John Winston be. His zany posts are welcome here. Hear, hear! John Winston's posts are the sort of thing for which I read this newsgroup. . Xref: news.uiowa.edu talk.religion.newage:11118 alt.alien.visitors:8036 sci.skeptic:28605 Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Subject: Re: Ride on John's Back, Please! (Was: Re: Get Off John's Back Message-ID: <63528@cup.portal.com> Date: Thu, 6 Aug 92 18:57:34 PDT Organization: The Portal System (TM) References: <63388@cup.portal.com> <63465@cup.portal.com> <63498@cup.portal.com> Lines: 11 ----As the Bible states, the Elohim created all the forms and created man in their image. "Let us make man in our image..." Genesis 1:26. Because of political opposition on their planet, the creators had to promise to confine humans in ignorance of the great scienfific secrets, while educating them just enough to measure their intelligence. But, according to Claude, one group of creators did not follow this rule and gave a complete education to them. The one group of creators who disobeyed was condemned by the government of ftheir planet to live in exile on Earth. Further contacts with the exiled Elohim helped the created humans to progress in science, but without reaching a corresponding level of wisdom. The Elohim's government was afraid--JW Xref: news.uiowa.edu talk.religion.newage:11119 alt.alien.visitors:8037 sci.skeptic:28606 Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Subject: Re: Ride on John's Back, Please! (Was: Re: Get Off John's Back Message-ID: <63523@cup.portal.com> Date: Thu, 6 Aug 92 18:32:54 PDT Organization: The Portal System (TM) References: <63388@cup.portal.com> <63465@cup.portal.com> <63498@cup.portal.com> Lines: 10 Dear Earth Folk: Now we go into Part 2 of the information about the aliens that made us. ----There story, as related in the Bible, does not refer to the work of an almighty spiritual and immaterial God, but rather to a fantastic scientific experiment carried out by people known in the Hebrew text as "Elohim". This word does not mean God as the usual translation would make us believe, but literally "Those who came from the sky" or "Extraterrestrials". This word is undoubtedly a plural, the singualar being "Eloha". For primitive man, all that came from the sky had to be devine. They could not imagine humans building machines which could fly above the ground. For them, this could be only supernatural. JW Xref: news.uiowa.edu alt.alien.visitors:8038 alt.conspiracy:17552 alt.activism:30778 sci.skeptic:28607 misc.headlines:23329 alt.politics.bush:1676 Path: news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!suned1!nosc!pages!bruce From: bruce@pages.com (Bruce Henderson) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy,alt.activism,sci.skeptic,misc.headlines,alt.politics.bush Subject: Re: UFO "October Surprise" and USA TAKEOVER?! Message-ID: <1992Aug5.182601.2776@pages.com> Date: 5 Aug 92 18:26:01 GMT References: Sender: bruce@pages.com Organization: Banzai Research Institute Lines: 15 In article stevem@solbourne.com (Stephen Matson) writes: > bunker@physun.physics.mcmaster.ca (Alex Bunker) writes: > > > >This is where I have to cut in look at the statistics in the real > >world. The USA has a murder rate 10X higher than any of the > >other democracies. IS IT really worth this "right to bear > >arms" crap? > Can this thread please get moved to some newsgroup other than alt.alien.visitors? Or at least continue your lovely discussion, but edit out alt.alien.visitors in the groups line..... We have UFOs to worship... Bruce Xref: news.uiowa.edu talk.religion.newage:11120 alt.alien.visitors:8039 sci.skeptic:28608 Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Subject: Re: Ride on John's Back, Please! (Was: Re: Get Off John's Back Message-ID: <63529@cup.portal.com> Date: Thu, 6 Aug 92 19:09:39 PDT Organization: The Portal System (TM) References: <63388@cup.portal.com> <63465@cup.portal.com> <63498@cup.portal.com> Lines: 11 ---of what humans would be able to accomplish and they decided, from their planet, to destroy all life on Earth by some sort of nuclear explosions. However, Vorilhon continues, the exiled creators, informed of their government's intention, put all their efforts together to safeguard peaceful humans. They asked Noah to work with them to build a spacecraft which would orbit the Earth during the cataclysm. The craft would contain all the cells of each male and female species to repopulate the Earth thanks to a sort of cloning technique. This collosal task was completed on time and when the explosion took place life was preserved a few thousand miles above the Earth. The continent was submerged by a gigantic tidal wave-----End of Part 2 John Winston. Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!Jeffrey_-_Papineau From: Jeffrey_-_Papineau@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: REAL information Message-ID: <63534@cup.portal.com> Date: Thu, 6 Aug 92 20:11:15 PDT Organization: The Portal System (TM) Distribution: world References: <1992Jul31.174713.1110@HQ.Ileaf.COM> Lines: 71 (Hal Wadleigh) wrote a sincere call for an abduction discusion here. I tried to answer last night, and got hung up with my new net access via Portal (the telecom DIS-service!) You write: The "believer" theory is that there are somewhere over 3 million people who are regularly kidnapped by aliens for what appear to be some sort of experiments in cross-breeding. The counter evidence is that these victims are almost exclusively English-speaking North Americans, mostly Americans. Well that is not really true. There are people abducted all over the world. You simply don't hear about it on CNN. The best source of info on world-wide phenomena is the World UFO Congress held in Nov-Dec in Las Vegas. Researchers from all over the world meet to give papers on their studies, and it is obvious this is a world-wide occurance. Those who have looked into the conspiracy theory surrounding abduction would say much of it goes on in this country because there are agreements with our government to let it go on... You write: It is also difficult to deal with the fact that the majority of the reported evidence is obtained only after hypnotic intervention, which makes testimony suspect. While it is true that much is remembered through hypnotic regression, it is important to remember that these people sought out help to begin with, because they could remember bits and peices, and it was bothering them. Normal, everyday people with no signs of mental instability who suddenly can' t sleep, or have other symptoms of traumatic experience that they don't understand. Many can remember without regression as well. And we have examples of contactees who have been contacted by other races and the details of the greys have been explained to them. they also need no regression to remember these experiences. Mind control is a funny game, but LSD, regression and other tactics can render it's desired effects nullified. MAny people who undergo trauma have natural amnesia, so they want to remember the event so that they can start to deal with it. This factor is not isolated to abdu ction cases. Unfortunately, what I read is mostly muck. We get alien recepies, rants from crazies about vibrating Venerial Queens, and personal messages about astral visits to mythical ancient cities. Command: page Does anybody have anything REAL to contribute? There are many people out there suffering from SOME KIND of post-traumatic stress disorder that they say was caused by aliens. Maybe it should be a maillist for people who want only serious information. Amen, brother. If we have to, that's what we'll do. In the mean time, I would think that you would want to read Secret Life. It's a best seller, and the best book I have seen on abductions. You can get it at most bookstores about the country. Matrix II is a great source of info on this as well, if you want to spend a little more money. personal messages about astral visits to mythical ancient cities. Well, you really have to keep an open mind in this business if you want to learn. Just because you don't believe in astral projection does not mean that I, or JW, or about half a billion Hindus don't. Read the Mirical of Love by Ram Das if you want to here about modern day yogis that can bilocate, astrially project, teleport, and much more. What the masters would have us know is that it's all in our minds. WE can pull bread from the ether if we BELIEVE we can. But we ALL as a race need to believe it.Otherwise our culture holds us back. 100th monkey theory, etc. Keep in touch. Nice thread. Damn shame no one else seems to think so. Jeff- Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!noc.near.net!chaos!random.ccs.northeastern.edu!rogue From: rogue@ccs.northeastern.edu (Rogue Agent) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: THE NATURE OF REALITY(was Is Bigfoot a Visitor?) Message-ID: <1992Aug7.030151.20986@random.ccs.northeastern.edu> Date: 7 Aug 92 03:01:51 GMT References: <63490@cup.portal.com> Sender: news@random.ccs.northeastern.edu Organization: Comp. Sci. @ NU Lines: 39 In article <63490@cup.portal.com> Jeffrey_-_Papineau@cup.portal.com writes: [...] > We have to create >a forum in which people will in fact feel comfortable to share there >experiences. I personally am not interested in ANYTHING a self-proclaimed >SHLEPTIC has to say! He has his mind made up before you even tell him >one word of your experience. OK, so it'll be acceptable to you when I tell my story of how Elvis came to me in a UFO & told me green M&M's are really a mind-control drug? If not, by what criterion do you distinguish between my Elvis story and Roy's Bigfoot one? Where do you draw the line? I think this is a serious issue. The problem you face is that no matter how tapioca-brained^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^Hopen-minded you are :-), I can come up with a story that will boggle you. The problem we all face in this group is that extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence - or should, anyway. If someone says to me 'show me an autographed M&M' I expect to be disbelieved when I say 'I ate it' :-). But it's no different for Mr. Shaeffer to suggest to (Roger?) that he had a lucid dream. The problem comes when Roger refuses this possibility out of hand, and says 'my experience is valid, whether I have any Bigfoot Hair (tm) or not!'. Again, where do you draw the line? This is what skepticism is - not having your 'mind made up' beforehand - but requiring that a claim have evidence to back it up. If sufficient evidence comes along, I will gladly accept Bigfoot, or the Greys, or even Elvis - when I see them. Until then, I must examine each claim, and hold them all to the same high standards of proof. This is all the 'shleptics' you so despise are doing - examining claims, and offering more probable solutions. [...] >Copernicus, Galileo, even Newton were up against the great resistance of medi >ocre minds. Somebody has this in their .signature. The kicker is - so was Bozo the Clown. RA Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!noc.near.net!chaos!random.ccs.northeastern.edu!rogue From: rogue@ccs.northeastern.edu (Rogue Agent) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: UFO books Message-ID: <1992Aug7.031054.21042@random.ccs.northeastern.edu> Date: 7 Aug 92 03:10:54 GMT References: <62922@cup.portal.com> <63491@cup.portal.com> Sender: news@random.ccs.northeastern.edu Organization: Comp. Sci. @ NU Lines: 9 In article <63491@cup.portal.com> Jeffrey_-_Papineau@cup.portal.com writes: [...] >other densities of dimension; Pardon my ignorance - what is a 'density of dimension'? I'm serious - this sounds like a radical departure from the physics and math I'm familiar with, and I want to be sure this actually means something. RA Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!noc.near.net!chaos!random.ccs.northeastern.edu!rogue From: rogue@ccs.northeastern.edu (Rogue Agent) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Gulf Breeze Six In The News Again Message-ID: <1992Aug7.032346.21143@random.ccs.northeastern.edu> Date: 7 Aug 92 03:23:46 GMT References: <1992Aug5.143625.23178@engage.pko.dec.com> <63496@cup.portal.com> Sender: news@random.ccs.northeastern.edu Organization: Comp. Sci. @ NU Lines: 18 In article <63496@cup.portal.com> Jeffrey_-_Papineau@cup.portal.com writes: >A lot of you kids have not been around long enough to be toilet trained >for more than a few years, so I'll give you a break while dad puts you >through school... >But you really need to consider just how many sources there are for "end- >times" information and how close it just might be to occuring. You should do some research into the decades just before AD 1000. They were just as tumultuous, and there were just as many people crying 'The End Times (tm) are coming!'. Or if you like, look into more recent history, around 1872-1874. The Millerites (forebears of the Seventh-Day Adventists, Jehovah's Witnesses, and Worldwide Church of God) were all the rage. There's always someone shouting it out - it's just that now we have global communication that lets us hear them all. Yes, I know - 'this time it's for real!'. But that's what they all said. RA Path: news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!wupost!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!usc!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!usenet.ucs.indiana.edu!indyvax.iupui.edu!tffreeba From: tffreeba@indyvax.iupui.edu Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Saga of the Family blah blah blah Message-ID: <1992Aug6.222552.1@indyvax.iupui.edu> Date: 7 Aug 92 03:25:52 GMT Sender: news@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu (USENET News System) Organization: Indiana University Lines: 8 Nntp-Posting-Host: indyvax.iupui.edu Speaking for those of us that were discussing the problems of life in the Pleiades: I don't think any of us really took this "black tee shirt/white tee shirt" thing into concideration. I for one am going to have to mull over the Fruit of the Loom factor. Thomas Freebairn * "I don't give a schist about geology!" * Space Rat * At his sentence hearing Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!usc!sdd.hp.com!swrinde!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!jato!quake!nateh From: nateh@quake.sylmar.ca.us (Nate Hawthorn) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Crop Circles? Message-ID: Date: 7 Aug 92 03:03:02 GMT References: <1992Aug5.115146.14670@unislc.uucp> Sender: bbs@quake.sylmar.ca.us Organization: Quake Public Access Lines: 30 ach@unislc.uucp (Andy Hutton) writes: > I have been following the Crop Circle phenomenon for the last few years > in the media. This year however, there seems to be a lack of interest or > possibly activity. Has anyone seen or heard of anything going on lately? > > I would appreciate any anecdotal information, opinions, or references > anyone may care to offer. > > Thanks ... Here in L.A. (CA) we had the news tell us that people were shooting other people from their cars on the freeways. This went on for about a month or so and then we hear nothing about it anymore. People are still shooting people on the freeways, it's just not much to get hyper about on TV (you know how they love to get you all worried so you will watch some more advertisments), and so they don't say much.. I'm sure there's lots going on, too bad we don't have a "circles.data" on here somewhere that posts GIF files and long/lat of these circles (and any other data on the circle)... Too bad, these are what Mr. Homes would love, CLUES left behind from gravity drive! Nate.. Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!usc!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!jato!quake!nateh From: nateh@quake.sylmar.ca.us (Nate Hawthorn) Subject: area 52 ? Message-ID: Sender: bbs@quake.sylmar.ca.us Organization: Quake Public Access Date: Fri, 7 Aug 1992 02:24:38 GMT Lines: 29 >>(The food is plentiful, and inexpensive!) I also drove several miles down the road identified as the one to go down to watch the Air Force types flying reverse-engineered saucers, but I didn't see *anything* (not even any Govt. security agents shooting out the tires of visiting cars, one researcher I spoke with swears happened to him.) Well as always the public is too late, and its too bad.... Probably because of all the media attention they have moved their operations to "area 53" or even "area 232, out of the country" ! Do you think that its really that hard for them to pack it all up and move it all ? Too bad you wern't into this sooner, and in the "smaller" group that knew about this WAY before channel 4 TV knew about it. Who cares anyway, they don't care about us (the govt) and want it all to themselves so that they can blow up and mame other people in other countries instead of making people's lives better. Just think if we could move EVERYONE from Africa's dry spots to a better location. Those poor people are suffering because of the fact that they live in a certian area when there are many open areas around with forrest and plenty of food supplies. Does your govt care? Nate.. Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!usc!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!jato!quake!nateh From: nateh@quake.sylmar.ca.us (Nate Hawthorn) Subject: posts Message-ID: Sender: bbs@quake.sylmar.ca.us Organization: Quake Public Access Date: Fri, 7 Aug 1992 02:46:18 GMT Lines: 13 >>Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy,alt.activism,sci.skeptic,misc .head lines,alt.politics.bush Subject: Re: guns and criminals why is this allowed? if I posted a answer to this it would end up in "alt.alien.visitors" only! so it wouldnt even get back to the "proper" net ! ? ! isn't there a way to not allow this to happen any more? If they want to post here, fine, but make them come over here and do it... nate.. Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!Jeffrey_-_Papineau From: Jeffrey_-_Papineau@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Alien descriptions, why the greys?? Message-ID: <63535@cup.portal.com> Date: Thu, 6 Aug 92 21:01:04 PDT Organization: The Portal System (TM) Distribution: world References: <1992Aug2.213702.7219@nmsu.edu> <24510@castle.ed.ac.uk> <1992Aug6.084919.26652@crc.ac.uk> Lines: 43 It appears that the majority of witnesses investigated by Budd see the abduction as a negative thing in their lives, whilst many of Leo Sprinkle's witnesses seem to treat it as a positive experience. Well, that's the rub, isn't it? We really don't know just what the ultimate goal of the Grey operations are, do we? Matrix talks of several types of greys, and leads one to understand that there are the Reticulans and the Betleguese, and then the Orion reptilian types (very tall). This last variety is what a construction worker claims to have seen 30 floors below ground at Edward Air Base, on taped interviews presented by M. Lindeman On another occasion that was pretty believable by the way the guy spoke of it, he and a friend saw 3 greys in a hanger at China Lake. He claims his friend is no longer alive, after being kicked off the base for being nosey. Died of mysterious circumstances. Dr. Bennewitze claims they are VERY negative and have the enslavement of humanity as thier ultimate goal. Pleadian contacts with Dr. Fred Bell of NASA and E.B.Mier in Switzerland bear this out to be accurate. But it is quite possible some of the greys are evil, while many others are benign. Just as our race has its power hungery, racist/facist types, so could there's have many good amoung them, like us (I hope;-) Matix II speaks of a known planetoid entering our solar system inhabited by the controling race of the greys, the Draco, a relative to the Reptilian race, whom form a confederation; of which earth is on thier trade route. Do any of our astronomer friends out there know of a large planetoid entering the solar system? Far out, but interesting stuff. Anyway, it is important to understand them as best we can, given the shroud of secrecy kept around the subject. I met a lady that was abducted, and she told of wire-taps on her phone after she reported the abduciton to the Feds (not too smart, but she knew nothing about the subject at the time of her abduction.) she was later kidnapped, threatened, and brainwashed in an effort to keep her from talking about her abduction, all by some agency of the US government. this is what our tax dollars are paying for? I doubt it, they have enough coke money on hand to purchase anything that might be obtainable with money. Jeff- Path: news.uiowa.edu!uunet!paladin.american.edu!europa.asd.contel.com!darwin.sura.net!mips!sdd.hp.com!hplabs!ucbvax!agate!rsoft!mindlink!a3917 From: Steve_MacDonald@mindlink.bc.ca (Steve MacDonald) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Moon Activities? Message-ID: <14058@mindlink.bc.ca> Date: 7 Aug 92 04:23:30 GMT Organization: MIND LINK! - British Columbia, Canada Lines: 3 If you could get that crater name that would be great. I've have a map of the moon on my wall. Stevie green cheese Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!cs.utexas.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!agate!rsoft!mindlink!a3917 From: Steve_MacDonald@mindlink.bc.ca (Steve MacDonald) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Betty and Barney Message-ID: <14060@mindlink.bc.ca> Date: 7 Aug 92 04:38:34 GMT Organization: MIND LINK! - British Columbia, Canada Distribution: world Lines: 3 Could some out there who is still talking about UFO's tell me the name of the movie about the couple (I believe their names were Betty and Barney Hill) who were apparently abducted by UFO's. Thanks Cigar Shaped Object Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!wupost!usc!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!jato!quake!nateh From: nateh@quake.sylmar.ca.us (Nate Hawthorn) Subject: circles... Message-ID: Sender: bbs@quake.sylmar.ca.us Organization: Quake Public Access Date: Fri, 7 Aug 1992 03:45:45 GMT Lines: 65 To: rutkows@ccu.umanitoba.ca (Chris Rutkowski) and any other people near these circle areas: Please try this, I don't have the $$ or the time to do this, but maybe you have atleast the location and you can get others to get together with the equipment to do this: Get one of those spectrum analyzers that are a baord for a PC, have then get a wide band antenna that is directional and mount it to a motor that rotates at a constant speed. Make it so that the antenna sweeps across the area(a) that you want to look at, preferrably on a hill top above several crop circle areas. You need to have a pulse that is sent to the computer every revolution. Now the computer will know where in the revolution it may detect a lower noise level. You will then need to make the spectrum analyzer swwep as wide band as possible (at first, maybe you will find a certian area to sweep later, but I think it will be pretty much all across the bands), and write a simple program to take any signals above the general "average" noise level out. YOu want a average value for the noise level that can vary up and down during one revolution. In other words, the antenna sweeps around and you are looking for a "drop" or "raise" in the background noise level in a small area during the sweep. It would look something like this: Sweep start Sweep end O O O O O OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO THe bottom line would be a normal noise level. You could then get a general direction of a craft from this data. If they are using some sort of gravity "generating" or "negating" drive this should work. If you don't understand why, son't worry, just try it, what will it take if you are already out there and have the equipment anyway. The idea is that the next day after you take these readings, you may find a circle in the same direction you found the signal loss (or gain). All I can say is if you can, try it. It could be real interesting. If you can't, then don't bother me with questions, I'm too busy. I don't know how to explain it further, this should suffice for anyone who understands electronics and radio and computers. Later if it works, you can build a better sensor. This is crude but should work ok for a quick experiment. Nate.. Xref: icaen alt.alien.visitors:8038 alt.paranormal:5567 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!sun-barr!news2me.ebay.sun.com!jethro.Corp.Sun.COM!starflight!jdr From: jdr@starflight.Corp.Sun.COM (Jon Roland) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.paranormal Subject: Re: Viewing High Strangeness Material Followup-To: alt.paranormal Date: 7 Aug 1992 05:27:17 GMT Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc. Lines: 49 Distribution: world Message-ID: References: <63493@cup.portal.com> Reply-To: jdr@starflight.Corp.Sun.COM NNTP-Posting-Host: starflight.corp.sun.com In article 63493@cup.portal.com, thad@cup.portal.com (Thad P Floryan) writes: >In article >jdr@starflight.Corp.Sun.COM (Jon Roland) writes: > >| [...] >| A private remote-viewing group of scientists and engineers is now accepting >| new members. If you are intellectually curious you will enjoy this unusual >| form of recreation. The material we will view includes well-substantiated >| [...] > >What is "remote-viewing"? > "Remote-viewing" is the more modern term for what used to be called clairvoyance: seeing remote events that are more or less contemporary (not in the future, which would be precognition, or in the past) and that do not involve reception of the thoughts of a sender (which would be telepathy). We get reports that SRI International did some serious research on the subject a few years back with some impressive results, and that similar research has been conducted by various government agencies. The friend for whom I posted the notice claims to be able to do it. I cannot verify her claims at this time. Stay tuned. She also claims to be able to help persons with a talent for remote-viewing to develop the ability. I also cannot verify those claims. However, she comes across as a highly educated, level-headed professional, and she publishes professional-grade articles on the subject. From the viewpoint of scientific speculation, remote viewing presents an interesting problem. While we might not yet have found a mechanism by which thoughts are communicated telepathically, it is at least plausible that some as yet undiscovered physical mechanism exists for doing that, probably involving known processes such as electromagnetic transmission. The problem with remote and future viewing (precognition) is with the situation in which there is no imaging mechanism on the sending end. Any convincing evidence of either phenomenon would require us to explain how an image is formed, as well as how it is conveyed, and would confront us with a challenge to known physics. There seems to be at least enough anecdotal evidence to justify further inquiry into the subject, on the chance that something interesting might turn up. If not, the effort may at least be entertaining. --- jdr@starflight.corp.sun.com, starflt@uunet.uu.net Jon Roland Starflight Corporation, 1755 E Bayshore Rd #9A, Redwood City, CA 94063-4142, 415/361-8141 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!cis.ohio-state.edu!pacific.mps.ohio-state.edu!linac!att!rutgers!andromeda.rutgers.edu!mccabe From: mccabe@andromeda.rutgers.edu (Chris Mccabe) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Aliens are partly to blame Message-ID: Date: 7 Aug 92 05:22:13 GMT Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J. Lines: 25 I just want to say that I am sick and tired of hearing about the government coverups involving UFO's. The bottom line is this: If there are alien visitors, on Earth, then they probably have the power to make direct and open contact with the general public, regardless of what our comparitively weak minded governments want. So, I can only say that the final decision to be open with the issue can only rest with the aliens. Some may say that they don't want to alarm the masses, so they go to "our leaders", but I believe this reasoning is wrong because I truly think the aliens are smart enough to realize how corrupt our government is. So, I say the ball is in their court, if they don't want to hit back, there is no game. Thus, the alien mystery will continue, for better or for worse, until one day, when everyone becomes so bored waiting, the whole issue is forgotten. I hope those alien bastards (if they exist) do expose themselves one day, because then I will personally tell them to go to hell, for keeping everybody waiting. Chris. Xref: icaen alt.alien.visitors:8040 alt.paranormal:5568 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!sun-barr!news2me.ebay.sun.com!jethro.Corp.Sun.COM!starflight!jdr From: jdr@starflight.Corp.Sun.COM (Jon Roland) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.paranormal Subject: Re: THE NATURE OF REALITY(was Is Bigfoot a Date: 7 Aug 1992 06:04:23 GMT Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc. Lines: 41 Distribution: world Message-ID: References: <1992Aug7.030151.20986@random.ccs.northeastern.edu> Reply-To: jdr@starflight.Corp.Sun.COM NNTP-Posting-Host: starflight.corp.sun.com In article 20986@random.ccs.northeastern.edu, rogue@ccs.northeastern.edu (Rogue Agent) writes: >This is what skepticism is - not having your 'mind made up' beforehand - but >requiring that a claim have evidence to back it up. If sufficient evidence >comes along, I will gladly accept Bigfoot, or the Greys, or even Elvis - >when I see them. Until then, I must examine each claim, and hold them all to >the same high standards of proof. This is all the 'shleptics' you so despise >are doing - examining claims, and offering more probable solutions. That is what skepticism should be, but too many are posting rude attacks or impossible demands for "proof" that can either not be offered, by the nature of the person's alleged experience, or at least cannot be offered in a Net posting. What are we supposed to do with witness reports where there is not physical evidence to examine or any independent corroborating witnesses? Shout down anyone who tries to present what he can when he can't back it up. Everyone who has had experiences that he knows to be true but could not prove in a court of law should be able to sympathize with the position of such a witness and at least hear him out politely. Properly skeptical questioning and evaluation of witness reports is a valuable contribution to discourse on this subject. Rude putdowns are not. Fortunately, contributors of the latter are sufficiently consistent that they can be added to everyone's kill file without fear of loss of anything useful in some future contribution. So, a word to "schleptics": If you want to continue to have your contributions accepted by members of these groups, then make your contributions constructive and worth reading by those of us who seldom flame or appreciate those that do. On the other hand, it would also be helpful if witnesses would simply report the facts of their experiences in a straightforward manner and with a minimum of interpretation led by either paranoia or wishful thinking. --- jdr@starflight.corp.sun.com, starflt@uunet.uu.net Jon Roland Starflight Corporation, 1755 E Bayshore Rd #9A, Redwood City, CA 94063-4142, 415/361-8141 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!van-bc!rsoft!mindlink!a3810 From: Jeremy_Reimer@mindlink.bc.ca (Jeremy Reimer) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Why talk ABOUT aliens? Talk TO an alien! Message-ID: <14068@mindlink.bc.ca> Date: 7 Aug 92 09:00:45 GMT Organization: MIND LINK! - British Columbia, Canada Distribution: world Lines: 17 Yup, I've got proof that I'm an alien. I've seen my name on a 1040AL (Tax Form for Aliens). So guys, wanna know what me and my friends are going to do to the world? Well, send $20 and I'll tell you (oops that's alt.slack) Well, later everyone! Give my regards to Gary Stollman! -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Just when you thought| ==> Jeremy_Reimer@mindlink.bc.ca <== it was safe... | That's SUNNY Vancouver, British Columbia, *CANADA*!! ---------------------+------------------------------------------------------ He's BACK! The Car, | George: Blackadder! What time is it!? The Cat, The Lunatic,| Edmund: Thre Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!van-bc!rsoft!mindlink!a3810 From: Jeremy_Reimer@mindlink.bc.ca (Jeremy Reimer) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Crop Circles? Message-ID: <14069@mindlink.bc.ca> Date: 7 Aug 92 09:17:36 GMT Organization: MIND LINK! - British Columbia, Canada Distribution: world Lines: 42 > Andy Hutton writes: > > Msg-ID: <1992Aug5.115146.14670@unislc.uucp> > Posted: Wed, 5 Aug 1992 11:51:46 > > Org. : Unisys Corporation SLC > > I have been following the Crop Circle phenomenon for the last few years > in the media. This year however, there seems to be a lack of interest or > possibly activity. Has anyone seen or heard of anything going on lately? > > I would appreciate any anecdotal information, opinions, or references > anyone may care to offer. > > Thanks ... Read "So Long and Thanks for All The Fish" by Douglas Adams for an explanation of why this has occurred. A quote (re: Dolphins disappearing) "Listen, no one will touch it. You can't sustain a story, you know, when the only news is the continuing absence of whatever it is the story's about. Not our territory anyway. Maybe they'll run a little 'Whatever Happened to Whatever Happened to the Dolphins' story in a couple of years, around August. But what's anybody going to do now? 'Dolphins Still Gone'? 'Continuing Dolphin Absence'? 'Dolphins-- Further Days Without Them'? The story dies, Arthur. It lies down and kicks its little feet in the air and presently goes to the great golden spike in the sky, my old fruitbat." And that's what's happened with these circles. Nothing. How can anyone continue to be excited about a stupid circle in some dumb farmer's field? Not year after year. Now, if they start making circles in George Bush's forehead, I'll take notice. -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Just when you thought| ==> Jeremy_Reimer@mindlink.bc.ca <== it was safe... | That's SUNNY Vancouver, British Columbia, *CANADA*!! ---------------------+------------------------------------------------------ He's BACK! The Car, | George: Blackadder! What time is it!? The Cat, The Lunatic,| Edmund: Thre Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!cs.utexas.edu!hellgate.utah.edu!dog.ee.lbl.gov!overload.lbl.gov!agate!rsoft!mindlink!a3810 From: Jeremy_Reimer@mindlink.bc.ca (Jeremy Reimer) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Ride on John's Back, Please! (Was: Re: Get Off John's Ba Message-ID: <14070@mindlink.bc.ca> Date: 7 Aug 92 09:28:25 GMT Organization: MIND LINK! - British Columbia, Canada Distribution: world Lines: 35 > John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes: > > Msg-ID: <63498@cup.portal.com> > Posted: 6 Aug 92 13:26:03 GMT > > Org. : The Portal System (TM) > > Dear Astral Travel Participants: I just got back from the Astral Convoy > and I truely feel that I am not all here. Sometimes a part of me (some What's worse, you're not all there either! "No matter where you go, there you are." -- Buckaroo Bonzai PS: Don't look for the Astral Colony, because me and a bunch of Kilrathi shot the thing up yesterday. Not much left after I put in the final missile. Great fireworks! PPS: Don't give up your day job, because your writing style is stale and unoriginal. Sorry, but that's the way it is. PPPS: Give my regards to the Earth. -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Just when you thought| ==> Jeremy_Reimer@mindlink.bc.ca <== it was safe... | That's SUNNY Vancouver, British Columbia, *CANADA*!! ---------------------+------------------------------------------------------ He's BACK! The Car, | George: Blackadder! What time is it!? The Cat, The Lunatic,| Edmund: Thre Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!cs.utexas.edu!hellgate.utah.edu!dog.ee.lbl.gov!overload.lbl.gov!agate!rsoft!mindlink!a3810 From: Jeremy_Reimer@mindlink.bc.ca (Jeremy Reimer) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Moon Activities?y Message-ID: <14071@mindlink.bc.ca> Date: 7 Aug 92 09:37:06 GMT Organization: MIND LINK! - British Columbia, Canada Distribution: world Lines: 48 > Stefan Gustavson writes: > > Msg-ID: > Posted: 6 Aug 92 17:25:43 GMT > > Org. : Dept of EE, University of Linkoping > > Steve_MacDonald@mindlink.bc.ca (Steve MacDonald) writes: > > >Just to let people know there was an incident in the 11th century where > several > >monks in England saw a large explosion on the moon. It scared the crap out > of > >them and they thought the world was going to end. It could be very possible > >that they witnessed a large alien ship crashing on the moon or more likely > just > >regular alien lunar activity. > > > no guns > > Steve Macdonald > > Or, even more likely, a meteorite crash on the moon. > Sorry to point out the obvious. Didn't mean to spoil your fun. > > /Stefan G (stefang@isy.liu.se) > And to spoil their fun further, analysis of the moon crater Tycho's strata (lines of ejected lunar material) shows its estimated impact date to coincide with the monk's sighting. This was described in _Cosmos_, which BTW also contains a pretty good argument about the lack of good proof of actual alien visitations. You'd think just ONE of these zillions of "crashed spaceships" might have produced one, ONE, just ONE inexplicable artifact or fragment. So far, nada. But seeing that meteor impact must have been quite a sight. It's a shame that people are so anxious to invent their own ideas about space when the real thing contains more fascinating events than most of us care to contemplate. Is it just a coincidence that aliens always choose to abduct stupid people? -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Just when you thought| ==> Jeremy_Reimer@mindlink.bc.ca <== it was safe... | That's SUNNY Vancouver, British Columbia, *CANADA*!! ---------------------+------------------------------------------------------ He's BACK! The Car, | George: Blackadder! What time is it!? The Cat, The Lunatic,| Edmund: Thre Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!usc!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!ub!csn!scicom!paranet!p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG!ParaNet(sm).Information.Service From: ParaNet.Information.Service@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG (sm) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Report on Phoenix Project Message-ID: <139577.2A817124@paranet.FIDONET.ORG> Date: 6 Aug 92 18:16:01 GMT Sender: ufgate@paranet.FIDONET.ORG (newsout1.26) Organization: FidoNet node 1:104/428.0 - Date: 7 Aug 92 00:17:01 GMT Sender: ufgate@paranet.FIDONET.ORG (newsout1.26) Organization: FidoNet node 1:104/428.0 - What is "remote-viewing"? To accurately convey the idea of Remote Viewing, the following is directly quoted from the abstract contained in the IANS program bulletin: "Remote Viewing (RV), unlike natural psychic experience or channeled information, is a systematic and controlled method for seeking and assembling information on almost any subject without benefit of extensive research laboratory or library facilities. RV is especially suitable for science or technology related inquiry. "RV works independently of time and location. In other words, a Remote Viewer (RVer) can access information from the past, the current time frame or the future. Further, the RVer can access information anywhere on Earth or, if desired, anywhere in the universe. "The detailed reports provided by the RVers include technical details and general and precision sketches and models if desired. Measured accuracies against test protocols far exceed expected norms. Continued focus on the target increases not only the knowledge of the target but also the accuracy of the information obtained. "RV has been used to develop leads and to increase understanding of many divergent technologies. RV provides a unique approach to develop greater understanding and to unlock many of the complex secrets of science. RV should not become the gospel. Rather, RV should take its place as another acceptable tool in the analytical process." Hope this clears it up, although it is still a mystery to me. Mike -- Michael Corbin - via ParaNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Michael.Corbin@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!thad From: thad@cup.portal.com (Thad P Floryan) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Ley Lines Message-ID: <63574@cup.portal.com> Date: Fri, 7 Aug 92 04:18:36 PDT Organization: The Portal System (TM) References: <1992Aug5.174301.2719@random.ccs.northeastern.edu> <63466@cup.portal.com> <+xxm-8-@lynx.unm.edu> Lines: 58 In article <+xxm-8-@lynx.unm.edu> cary@carina.unm.edu (Ithlial the Archer) writes: | [...] | from the earth they won't tear it apart straight away. Rather the the | heating of the earth from the tides that such a massive object would | cause in the crust would probably melt it. (A good example of this | is Saturns moon, Enceladus, made mostly of water/water ice. Its interior | is kept liquid via the tidal heating from its interaction with Saturn.) | It was such a nice planet before it melted, darn. | [...] Some thoughts ... Y'know, there are OTHER methods by which satellites (i.e. moons) can be warmed: magnetic induction heating, radiation, friction (with dust), etc. A long time ago I read someone's speculation that if, say, the earth were placed in orbit about Jupiter (with its intense field), the result could be a temperate climate; nothing was stated, though, about the possible effects of radiation and other "unknowns" on life! :-) The word "tide" reminds me of the inexcusable error in ASIMOV ON ASTRONOMY where he misstated the reason for simultaneous high tides on opposite sides of the earth. He neglected to treat the earth and moon as a 2-body system whose center of gravity is displaced from earth's center towards the moon (and thus overlooked centrifugal force). Early works on celestial mechanics relied heavily (solely?) on gravity, the solution of 2-body problems, the search for N-body solutions, etc. and (apparently) ignored the effects of electro-magnetic forces (probably since the data simply wasn't available). Earth's Van Allen radiation belts were unknown prior to the "space age." Reflect on this past week's shuttle experiment: an attempt was made to generate power directly from the earth's magnetic field. There was, in fact, partial success although the intended experiment was not completed because of mechanical problems with the tether/"collector". Magnetic fields are known to affect biological organisms; think about it: our bodies are systems of electrical and chemical interactions. Much concern has been raised recently about high-voltage power transmission lines affecting the health of animals and humans. Really intense magnetic fields have caused people to perceive ("see") flashes of light and random splotches of color. Directed microwaves are used for cooking! Computer magnetic media are erasable by alternating electro-magnetic fields. The old US Embassy in Moscow was alleged to have been irradiated by various EM transmissions in the hopes of inducing discomfiture, disorientation and unclear thinking (yeah, sure! :-) in the staff personnel. There are sure to be many strange things discovered as we explore more of our universe AND ourselves. Thad Floryan [ thad@cup.portal.com ] Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!thad From: thad@cup.portal.com (Thad P Floryan) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Shared databases, instrumentation, plausibility, etc. Message-ID: <63575@cup.portal.com> Date: Fri, 7 Aug 92 04:20:29 PDT Organization: The Portal System (TM) Lines: 34 Just some thoughts to re-focus this group along the lines of its charter. Do UFO researchers world-wide "share" their case databases? Are such databases available for, say, anonymous ftp, or are they mostly held privately only to appear in copyrighted published (for sale) works? What is the nature of data typically gathered for UFO reports? Are reports mostly anecdotal? [ Note I tend to be skeptical of solely photographic evidence given the relative ease producing movies and TV commercials! :-) ] If you could "instrument" a UFO sighting, what types of instruments would be pertinent and what types of data would you seek? Anyone been measuring, say, radon levels? Magnetic field and/or gravity perturbations? Someone stated that a spectrum analyzer be used: OK, so what spectra (and, note, you'll have the same "problem" that confronts SETI)? What KINDS of correlations are known to have been attempted on all the years' collections of UFO reports? What correlations should be performed? What would it require to convince you beyond ALL doubt that a(ny) given UFO sighting at which you were NOT a first-hand observer/participant was truly an "unearthly event"? [ Note "unearthly event"; I chose this terminology in an attempt to encompass phenomena beyond our ken because the "jury's still out" as to whether they might be paranormal, extra-terrestrial, extra-dimensional, or even something that we cannot yet conceive. ] Feel welcome to add more questions to the list. I've shared my 4 experiences with the readership of this newsgroup; surely there are others among the participants, lurkers and observers who are willing to contribute their thoughts and "experiences." Thad Floryan [ thad@cup.portal.com ] Xref: icaen alt.alien.visitors:8049 alt.paranormal:5570 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!thad From: thad@cup.portal.com (Thad P Floryan) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.paranormal Subject: Re: Viewing High Strangeness Material Message-ID: <63576@cup.portal.com> Date: Fri, 7 Aug 92 04:28:45 PDT Organization: The Portal System (TM) Distribution: world References: <63493@cup.portal.com> Lines: 29 In article jdr@starflight.Corp.Sun.COM (Jon Roland) writes: |In article 63493@cup.portal.com, thad@cup.portal.com (Thad P Floryan) writes: |>In article |>jdr@starflight.Corp.Sun.COM (Jon Roland) writes: |> |>| [...] |>| A private remote-viewing group of scientists and engineers is now accepting |>| new members. If you are intellectually curious you will enjoy this unusual |>| form of recreation. The material we will view includes well-substantiated |>| [...] |> |>What is "remote-viewing"? | |"Remote-viewing" is the more modern term for what used to be called |clairvoyance: seeing remote events that are more or less contemporary |[...] Thanks for the detailed explanation. Out of curiousity, is this something akin to what Peter Hurkos used to do for police departments? If not, what would his "talent" be termed? I recall that he appeared to be very credible (in picking up "impressions" of events surrounding objects under investigation). I'm attempting to keep an open mind in this regards, so would appreciate any info. Thad Floryan [ thad@cup.portal.com ] Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!thad From: thad@cup.portal.com (Thad P Floryan) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Aliens are partly to blame Message-ID: <63577@cup.portal.com> Date: Fri, 7 Aug 92 04:40:01 PDT Organization: The Portal System (TM) References: Lines: 17 In article mccabe@andromeda.rutgers.edu (Chris Mccabe) writes: | I just want to say that I am sick and tired of hearing | about the government coverups involving UFO's. The | bottom line is this: If there are alien visitors, on | Earth, then they probably have the power to make direct | and open contact with the general public, regardless of | what our comparitively weak minded governments want. So, | [...] Given our experiences with the "cargo cults" circa WW II ("advanced" society casually contacting a "primitive" society), I would expect any ET visitors to have an ethic like the "Prime Directive" popularized by "Star Trek" in which NON-interference is paramount (unless there is some nefarious scheme afoot). Thad Floryan [ thad@cup.portal.com ] Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!dtix!darwin.sura.net!wupost!sdd.hp.com!swrinde!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!pacific.mps.ohio-state.edu!linac!tellab5!jcj From: jcj@tellabs.com (JCJ) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re^2: Don's Posting Message-ID: <1992Aug6.220210.6461@tellab5.tellabs.com> Date: 6 Aug 92 22:02:10 GMT References: <13974@mindlink.bc.ca> Sender: news@tellab5.tellabs.com (News) Organization: Huh? Lines: 32 Originator: jcj@sunl13 Nntp-Posting-Host: sunl13 Gary D. Lee-Nova writes: >... I saw some UFOs,once. ... These were dots of light, >way out there, maybe 25,000 feet or more. ... They >zig-zagged 90 degree turns in little staircase patterns in >the sky. One would wink into view, do the zig-zag trick, >& end up somewhere at the end of the pattern and then wink >out. Then another, ( or two)would perform the same trick ... For the record, yes, I am a skeptic and no, I'm not attempting to dismiss this story as a hallucination, etc. (I believe Gary saw *something*), but has anyone ever wondered what kind of "advanced intelligence" would spend its time doing apparently pointless aerial maneuvers? Kinda gives you the impression of a bunch of little gray teenagers doing "donuts" in the school parking lot with their '72 Interstellar Mustangs. And if anyone wants to argue that "they" are demonstrating for the lowly humans, this event occurred in the middle of nowhere with perhaps only one witness (practice for "Prom" night?). Similarly with the Lake Erie (?) winter sighting by the Coast Guard - "mothership" lands on the lake ice and sends out a bunch of little ships that zip around aimlessly for some length of time. Why? Scout ships checking out the area? "I don't think so, Tim." If a civilization has propulsion systems that can let them defy the laws of physics and transport "specimens" up into their ships by energy beams or whatever, they certainly ought to be able to probe an area electromagnetically (at least) without leaving their ships, no? It seems to me that the Miller beer commercial makes more sense than most of the reported aerial activities. I invite counterarguments (as if I had to ...). Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Ride on John's Back, Please! (Was: Re: Get Off John's Ba Message-ID: <63578@cup.portal.com> Date: Fri, 7 Aug 92 06:21:51 PDT Organization: The Portal System (TM) Distribution: world References: <14070@mindlink.bc.ca> Lines: 11 Dear Thinkers: In the past a person who went with me to the desert where space people are sometimes seen came back with a red mark on his neck that looked a little like a pimple. The next night he dreamed of the previous night when he and I were sleeping in a an old shack. He saw in his dream some space people coming in and putting or doing something to him that caused the mark to appear. We checked with a friend who understood these sort of things and he informed us that the space people sometimes do that so they can communicate with the person in the future, and the red mark will go away in the next one and one half to two weeks. It did and they did. John Winston. Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!olivea!hal.com!decwrl!pa.dec.com!nntpd2.cxo.dec.com!acetek.enet.dec.com!timpson From: timpson@acetek.enet.dec.com Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Moon Activities Message-ID: <1992Aug7.131417.8955@nntpd2.cxo.dec.com> Date: 7 Aug 92 13:14:17 GMT Sender: usenet@nntpd2.cxo.dec.com (USENET News System) Reply-To: timpson@acetek.enet.dec.com () Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation Lines: 19 The crater that may have been the result of the 11th/12th century explosion witnessed by the monks is Tyco. Could be wrong but it is in the right area. Steve -- ----------------------------------------------------------------- | | | My atheism, like that of Spinoza, is true piety towards the | | universe and denies only gods fashioned by men in their own | | image to be servants of their human interests. | | | | -- George Santayana | | | ----------------------------------------------------------------- Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!olivea!hal.com!decwrl!pa.dec.com!nntpd2.cxo.dec.com!acetek.enet.dec.com!timpson From: timpson@acetek.enet.dec.com Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Gary Stollman where are you? Message-ID: <1992Aug7.131636.9058@nntpd2.cxo.dec.com> Date: 7 Aug 92 13:16:36 GMT References: <63577@cup.portal.com> Sender: usenet@nntpd2.cxo.dec.com (USENET News System) Reply-To: timpson@acetek.enet.dec.com () Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation Lines: 20 Have you all noticed that Gary Stollman has been very quiet. Maybe they carted him of to the Tallahassee nut farm and BBQ again Steve Food_for_the_Grays -- ----------------------------------------------------------------- | | | My atheism, like that of Spinoza, is true piety towards the | | universe and denies only gods fashioned by men in their own | | image to be servants of their human interests. | | | | -- George Santayana | | | ----------------------------------------------------------------- Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Ley Lines Message-ID: <63579@cup.portal.com> Date: Fri, 7 Aug 92 06:33:24 PDT Organization: The Portal System (TM) References: <1992Aug5.174301.2719@random.ccs.northeastern.edu> <63466@cup.portal.com> <+xxm-8-@lynx.unm.edu> Lines: 7 Dear Ley Liners: Last weekend I made a trip down into the ruins of a 30,000 year old city in southern Calif. and one of the things I did see was some rock walls that are just about like the Mysterious Rock Walls that extend from Berkeley to Milpitas, Calif. The person giving the tour said that the walls were made, among other things, to focus the Ley Lines in the area. John Winston. Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!cs.utexas.edu!torn!cunews!nrcnet0!bnrgate!bwdls61!bwdlh130!zenith89 From: zenith89@bwdlh130.bnr.ca (Chris VanFleet) Subject: Re: Betty and Barney Message-ID: <1992Aug7.132924.15259@bwdls61.bnr.ca> Sender: usenet@bwdls61.bnr.ca (Use Net) Nntp-Posting-Host: bwdlh130 Reply-To: zenith89@bwdlh130.bnr.ca () Organization: Bell-Northern Research, Ltd., Ottawa, CANADA References: <14060@mindlink.bc.ca> Date: Fri, 7 Aug 1992 13:29:24 GMT Lines: 10 In article <14060@mindlink.bc.ca> Steve_MacDonald@mindlink.bc.ca (Steve MacDonald) writes: >Could some out there who is still talking about UFO's tell me the name of the >movie about the couple (I believe their names were Betty and Barney Hill) who >were apparently abducted by UFO's. Thanks Cigar Shaped Object Not "Hill", Betty and Barney RUBBLE. And the name of the movie is "Yabba Dabba Do", ya ufo nut. ...my opinions are my own etc. etc. Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!decwrl!csus.edu!netcom.com!payner From: payner@netcom.com (Rich Payne) Subject: Re: Ley Lines Message-ID: Date: Fri, 07 Aug 92 14:01:07 GMT Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest) References: <63466@cup.portal.com> <+xxm-8-@lynx.unm.edu> <63574@cup.portal.com> Lines: 82 In article <63574@cup.portal.com> thad@cup.portal.com (Thad P Floryan) writes: >In article <+xxm-8-@lynx.unm.edu> cary@carina.unm.edu (Ithlial the Archer) >writes: > >| [...] >| from the earth they won't tear it apart straight away. Rather the the >| heating of the earth from the tides that such a massive object would >| cause in the crust would probably melt it. (A good example of this >| is Saturns moon, Enceladus, made mostly of water/water ice. Its interior >| is kept liquid via the tidal heating from its interaction with Saturn.) >| It was such a nice planet before it melted, darn. >| [...] > >Some thoughts ... > >Y'know, there are OTHER methods by which satellites (i.e. moons) can be >warmed: magnetic induction heating, radiation, friction (with dust), etc. These will warm the -outside- only, except for magnetic induction heating. And I'd suspect that if there was enough friction to seriously heat an asteroid or better sized body that we would see some orbital changes as well. >A long time ago I read someone's speculation that if, say, the earth were >placed in orbit about Jupiter (with its intense field), the result could be >a temperate climate; nothing was stated, though, about the possible effects >of radiation and other "unknowns" on life! :-) > >The word "tide" reminds me of the inexcusable error in ASIMOV ON ASTRONOMY >where he misstated the reason for simultaneous high tides on opposite sides >of the earth. He neglected to treat the earth and moon as a 2-body system >whose center of gravity is displaced from earth's center towards the moon >(and thus overlooked centrifugal force). > >Early works on celestial mechanics relied heavily (solely?) on gravity, the >solution of 2-body problems, the search for N-body solutions, etc. and >(apparently) ignored the effects of electro-magnetic forces (probably since >the data simply wasn't available). > >Earth's Van Allen radiation belts were unknown prior to the "space age." I'm unclear what this has to do with anything. >Reflect on this past week's shuttle experiment: an attempt was made to >generate power directly from the earth's magnetic field. There was, in >fact, partial success although the intended experiment was not completed >because of mechanical problems with the tether/"collector". > >Magnetic fields are known to affect biological organisms; think about it: >our bodies are systems of electrical and chemical interactions. Much >concern has been raised recently about high-voltage power transmission >lines affecting the health of animals and humans. This is still very controversial. >Really intense magnetic fields have caused people to perceive ("see") >flashes of light and random splotches of color. Directed microwaves are >used for cooking! Computer magnetic media are erasable by alternating >electro-magnetic fields. Ever heard of NMR (opps, now MR). It uses magnetic fields in the several tesla range. I have worked in maintaining one, and even had some test images taken. Even in a very strong field, I saw no visual effects. And magnetic media are read/written to with -magnetic- fields only. You seem to be using electric/magnetic/electromagnetic interchangably. As far as I am aware, you are alone in doing this. Perhaps you would explain? >The old US Embassy in Moscow was alleged to have been irradiated by various >EM transmissions in the hopes of inducing discomfiture, disorientation and >unclear thinking (yeah, sure! :-) in the staff personnel. > >There are sure to be many strange things discovered as we explore more of >our universe AND ourselves. > >Thad Floryan [ thad@cup.portal.com ] Rich payner@netcom.com Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!decwrl!csus.edu!netcom.com!vere From: vere@netcom.com (Steven Vere) Subject: Disinformation Agents at Work? Message-ID: <1tymt#-.vere@netcom.com> Date: Fri, 07 Aug 92 14:40:30 GMT Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest) Keywords: UFO disinformation Lines: 20 For the sake of argument, let's assume the US government has an active program of coverup and disinformation for UFO material. As part of its charter, the responsible organization would of course monitor UFO related publications and groups. In particular, they would probably be monitoring alt.alien.visitors. The principle of disinformation and active measures would call for government agents, posing as private citizens, to post skeptical replies and attacks on legitimate reports of UFO experiences, to try to shut them up, neutralize them, and discourage others from publicly reporting their experiences. So, the next time you some incredibly closed-minded individual spouting off on this newsgroup, give the guy a break. He may just be some poor, underpaid government employee trying to do his job. -- ___________________________________________________________________________ Steven Vere 70571.521@compuserve.com Boulder Creek, California vere@netcom.com ___________________________________________________________________________ Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!cleveland.Freenet.Edu!cc203 From: cc203@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (David R. Stepien) Subject: Re: THE NATURE OF REALITY Message-ID: <1992Aug7.152034.14241@usenet.ins.cwru.edu> Sender: news@usenet.ins.cwru.edu Nntp-Posting-Host: cwns1.ins.cwru.edu Reply-To: cc203@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (David R. Stepien) Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA) Date: Fri, 7 Aug 92 15:20:34 GMT Lines: 46 >> So lets just close our eyes and try and think up an explanation >> for these things. Gee, what could it be? It must be the obvious >> thing - ALIEN VISTORS - period. In article 7979 jmv@grip.cis.upenn.edu (Jean-Marc Vezien) replies: >Well, unless an UFO lands in a civilized area where more than 100 >people witness it (some photos/ film wouldn't be bad either), I'll >stick to good ol' Occam: "It must be the obvious. >Natural phenomenon, hoaxes or hallucinations". What if they just don't want to? >My usual critic against UFO explanation is: those aliens, who are >SOOOO advanced that they can come to Earth, are also so darn >stoopid that they experiment on cattle then put the dead meat back >(why not jetison it in space ?), or make some strange lights and noise >to attract the attention of the farmers around. Right ? Right. And of course, the aliens must think just like we do, so of course we can logically reason out why this behavior would be ridiculous for them. More likely, they think very differently than we do, and what might seem incongruous to us is just normal to them. Abductees frequently report that the aliens just can't seem to understand a lot of our behavior, so why should we assume we can understand theirs? As I run into this type of skepticism all the time, I ask you: Have you actually researched this subject? If not, then read "An Alien Harvest", or get the video. Then let me hear your explanation for the following documented HARD FACTS: 1. No tracks whatsoever around the carcasses. 2. All blood completely drained from the bodies, but no blood on the ground. 3. Surgery performed by a laser type cauterizing instrument. This was documented in the late 70's when human medical technology was not that advanced. Even now you would have to cart a truckload of equipment out to a site to do this. 4. Sightings, sightings, sightings.. _________________________________________________________________ David Stepien Email : stepiend@rcwcl1.dnet.bp.com ----------------------------------------------------------------- Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!cleveland.Freenet.Edu!cc203 From: cc203@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (David R. Stepien) Subject: Dulce Info Request Message-ID: <1992Aug7.152458.14453@usenet.ins.cwru.edu> Sender: news@usenet.ins.cwru.edu Nntp-Posting-Host: cwns1.ins.cwru.edu Reply-To: cc203@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (David R. Stepien) Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA) Date: Fri, 7 Aug 92 15:24:58 GMT Lines: 19 > Article #8013: > From: ParaNet.Information.Service@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG (sm) > > (2) "The Dulce Report", dated 27 May 1992, describing an on-site > investigation of the Dulce and Archuleta Mesa area in New Mexico, > which purportedly proved beyond any doubt that there is nothing > there of any interest to UFO researchers despite persistent > reports to the contrary.... What are these persitent reports to the contrary. Anyone have any HARD FACTS on Dulce? Anyone actually hiked around there and seen anything? _________________________________________________________________ David Stepien Email : stepiend@rcwcl1.dnet.bp.com ----------------------------------------------------------------- Xref: icaen alt.alien.visitors:8061 alt.paranormal:5573 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!agate!garnet.berkeley.edu!schultz From: schultz@garnet.berkeley.edu (Richard Schultz) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.paranormal Subject: Re: Viewing High Strangeness Material Date: 7 Aug 1992 15:30:54 GMT Organization: University of California, Berkeley Lines: 13 Distribution: world Message-ID: <15u4veINNoj7@agate.berkeley.edu> References: <63493@cup.portal.com> <63576@cup.portal.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: garnet.berkeley.edu In article <63576@cup.portal.com> thad@cup.portal.com (Thad P Floryan) writes: >Out of curiousity, is this something akin to what Peter Hurkos used to do >for police departments? If not, what would his "talent" be termed? I recall >that he appeared to be very credible (in picking up "impressions" of events >surrounding objects under investigation). I assume that it isn't, since what Peter Hurkos used to do didn't actually work. Most of his "credibility" came from, well, lies. C.E.M. Hansel wrote about this. I can't remember if it's in his book about ESP or if it was an article for the Skeptical Inquirer. Richard Schultz Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!mcsun!uknet!icdoc!mrccrc!mrccrc!sgamble From: sgamble@crc.ac.uk (Steve Gamble x3293) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Where are you ET? (was Re: Moon Activities?) Message-ID: <1992Aug7.153004.11960@crc.ac.uk> Date: 7 Aug 92 15:30:04 GMT References: <139502.2A79E0E1@paranet.FIDONET.ORG> <1992Aug5.092002.400@crc.ac.uk> <1992Aug6.140606.19606@acd4.acd.com> Sender: news@crc.ac.uk Reply-To: sgamble@crc.ac.uk (Steve Gamble x3293) Organization: MRC Human Genome Mapping Project Resource Centre, Harrow, UK Lines: 76 Nntp-Posting-Host: germanium In article <1992Aug6.140606.19606@acd4.acd.com>, gvb@TEFS1.acd.com (Gregg Brown) writes: > In article <1992Aug5.092002.400@crc.ac.uk> sgamble@crc.ac.uk (Steve Gamble x3293) writes: > > [Content of Michael Corbin's message and Steve's response deleted] > > > > >POSTSCRIPT: > > > >Around 90% of UFO reports can be explained after careful investigation > >to be mis-identifications of man-made objects or of natural phenomena. > > I believe this is correct. Can anyone substantiate this? > The 90% solvable figure is that quoted extensively by the British Ministry of Defense. Also was that quoted by Project Bluebook and I believe also by the Condon Report. A similar figure was found in an analysis of 1100 reports made to the British UFO Research Association (IN: UFO INVESTIGATORS HANDBOOK, BUFORA, 1976, Eds: Roger Stanway & Jenny Randles), Also Analysis of Reports 1980-1982, Mike Wootten, Journal of Transient Aerial Phenomena, Vol 4, BUFORA, 1987. (Incidentally Dr Condon was a member of BUFORA for several years) > >Around six months ago, I posted inviting those people who felt that > >the remaining 10% could be explained as being Flying Saucers (i.e > >extraterrestrial spacecraft) to present their evidence. > > > >This generated zero response. Does this mean you guys have no > >evidence? Here is another chance to present it. > > Maybe they were just shy. Just kidding... This whole thing is so > volatile that in a lot of cases, I see people shying away from non > believers. You may have presented the question that led people to > think what you were really asking was: "Hey! stupid UFO/Alien believers, > come make fool out of yourselves and give me some proof to this > malarky so I can laugh at you even more because I will never believe > it even if they land in my front yard and knock on my door." I am not > saying you were inappropriate in your asking of the questions, I am > just saying that they may of percieved you as being a "non believer > no matter what". Try asking your question again. Make it sound like > you want to believe. I bet you won't be able to read all the > responses. > > > > >Steve. > > > Gregg. Please overcome your shyness! I really want to know. I can assure you Gregg (and anybodyelse) that I am not inviting you to make a fool of yourself. What I am looking for is a meaningful transfer of information. Too often in a.a.v. wild statements are made that have no backup. Perhaps there are other people (or even Greys!) out there who want SERIOUS discussion. (In my earlier post I had over looked that I did get one response by e-mail. It said to the effect: We are the Greys! And we now have your address. Fine, if the Greys are on Internet, they know where to find me.) Indeed in my search for evidence for the last two years I have travelled the 5000 miles from England to Laramie, Wyoming to attend the Rocky Mountain UFO Conference organised by Leo Sprinkle. This is a gathering of about 150 people of which maybe 120 to 130 are contactees or abductees. Hope this expands on my inteserest enough for the SERIOUS people on a.a.v. to come forward. Steve. -- (Disclaimer: These are not my employer's opinions, they may not even be mine!) Steve Gamble, Computing Services, Clinical Research Centre and Human Genome Mapping Project Resource Centre, Watford Road, Harrow, Middlesex, HA1 3UJ, UK. Phone: +44 81 869 3293 JANET: s.gamble@uk.ac.crc INTERNET: s.gamble@crc.ac.uk Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!acd4!TEFS1!gvb From: gvb@TEFS1.acd.com (Gregg Brown) Subject: Re: K-2 Radio Transmission Message-ID: <1992Aug7.141449.25127@acd4.acd.com> Sender: news@acd4.acd.com (USENET News System) Organization: Applied Computing Devices, Inc., Terre Haute IN References: <1992Aug5.162256.14549@acd4.acd.com> <1992Aug5.172556.14834@acd4.acd.com> <1992Aug6.155726.2040@ryn.mro4.dec.com> Date: Fri, 7 Aug 1992 14:14:49 GMT Lines: 50 In article <1992Aug6.155726.2040@ryn.mro4.dec.com> randolph@est.enet.dec.com (Tom Randolph) writes: > >In article <1992Aug5.172556.14834@acd4.acd.com>, gvb@TEFS1.acd.com (Gregg Brown) writes... >>I have just received the K-2 Radio Transmission recording. Its on a 60 >>Gregg. > >How about a summary? Anything worth hearing? > >-Tom R.randolph@est.enet.dec.com (click,click,click,click,click,click,thum-thump) at 1 cps for approx 12 min. click/thump fades to: (wwwwwoooooooowwwwwwwwwoooooooowwwwwwww) at about 1 cps with a ...oooooowwwwwwtinklewwwwwooooo... about every 6 seconds (varies) for about 30 minutes. wowowowow starts getting faster and faster (up to about 5-10 wowow's a second) At that point the inherent tone of the wowow's drops from about 500 hertz to 300 herts. The wowow's inherent pitch pick right back up but volume is somewhat subdued. You then start (only way I could describe) hearing "whalelike" sounds in the backgound. The wowowow's are still present and start slowing back down to their original 1 cps speed. Relative predominence of wowow and whale's song alternate for short period of time. Tinkles are still present and have never faded but vary in their frequency of appearance. This sequence goes for about 12 min. and then at the last part of side two there is a definit "edit splice". What is put on the tape to the end is the wowowowow at 1 cps with the oooowwwwwtinklewwwwoooo's in it. This goes on for another 4 or 5 minutes. What is it you ask? Well, I find it very enjoyable to listen to. Makes me very relaxed. Helps my tension headaches. From what I know of radio, the click/thum-thump stuff could be over the horizon radar or an ionospheric sounder. I wish they had flipped on the BFO during reception for a little while, I could have determined either. The reciever was kept on AM the entire time. Its kinda eerie to listen too. Especially the later parts. Anyone else heard this tape? Help me be more accurate in my descriptions if you can. Its hard to explain wowow's and clickthum-thump's in a message. Gregg. Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!acd4!TEFS1!gvb From: gvb@TEFS1.acd.com (Gregg Brown) Subject: Re: We have met the enemy and they are us. Message-ID: <1992Aug7.145023.25274@acd4.acd.com> Sender: news@acd4.acd.com (USENET News System) Organization: Applied Computing Devices, Inc., Terre Haute IN References: <3AUG199214163311@apsicc.aps.edu> <1992Aug4.192810.9808@acd4.acd.com> Date: Fri, 7 Aug 1992 14:50:23 GMT Lines: 97 In article nelson_p@apollo.hp.com (Peter Nelson) writes: >In article <1992Aug4.192810.9808@acd4.acd.com> gvb@TEFS1.acd.com (Gregg Brown) writes: >> >>Thanks Jim. Thats an angle I had not approached. So far I have just >>a few facts on all this "abduction thing". >> >>#1: They have and probably are occuring. This points out the fact that I >> do not believe the people are "just dreaming". I beleive the events >> really did take place, at least in some cases. In others, it may just >> be a dream. The abductions are taking place. People are being (of have >> been) examined. > > Why do you call this a "fact"? Or are you just referring to your belief > as the fact, i.e., "It is a fact that I believe this."? > > In the absence of ANY physical evidence of adbuctions the best you can > say about them is that they are *claims* of abduction. Some people > have scars, but scars don't tell you much about their origin and > certainly say nothing about abductions. Some people claim to have > had removed artifacts implanted by the aliens, but no one has ever > produced one of these for study. (although several have claimed to). Its amazing the correlation between the number of "mysterious scars" and people who "claim" to have been abducted. > > The sheer number of people making abduction claims means nothing --- > millions of people claim to have, or to have had, personal contact > with God (or the diety of their choice) but this doesn't offer much > persuasive evidence that God (or the diety of their choice) exists > or has the attributes they ascribe to . True. However, when many people who are not in contact in any way with each other start claiming and describing similar events, what are we to think? In most cases, the people just want to know what happened. They are not seeking an "alien answer". In fact, most of the people in Budd Hopkins' book, Intruders, don't believe what they are saying. > > So the bottom line is that there's no evidence that abductions deserve > the moniker "fact". > > >---peter I agree Peter. However, how much evidence do you haave to be presented for something to be considered a fact. The "fact" remains that anything can be faked. We don't really know black holes are black holes. We don't really know galaxies are galaxies. It could be just claims by the scientific community. Back in the late sixties when the USA put the first man on the moon, there were a lot of people that didn't believe that either. Did you? The fact is, there are some people that maintain (my grandmother was one, rest her soul, she died in '88) the lunar landings NEVER took place. I will para- phrase Budd Hopkins in saying that there are some people, regardless of the facts shown to them that will not be able to accept certain things. So, how would you have me justify my facts? I say its day, you say you're not sure. It might be night. Maybe it is! I may be wrong. However, in my opinion the abductions have been or are taking place. There have been many unrelated incidents with closely described accounts. Landing spots, scars (external and internal) shows there is something going on. What proof do you offer that these scars, landing spots and other misc. physical evidence does not prove something is going on. No doubt about it. Something is going on. Could be a scam, I guess. Budd and all the other authors could be lieing outright. If they prove this, I can simply say: Drat! wrong again and I will be a little more suspecting the next time. Besides that, my conviction could change. I have only read one book and numerous articles. I am not the abduction guru. I don't expect you or anyone else to agree, I just stated what, yes, I BELIEVE. I believe that the USA put a man on the moon. I have no evidence of that either. If you believe that, tell me why. Did you see the Saturn Rocket booster lift off? Did you see the LEM (is that what it was called?) hit the lunar dust. I didn't, yet I believe. Why? Because I believe. I also believe Jesus Chist died for my sins. Why? Because I believe. To me, the evidence is clear enough. I think I have said enough. Thanx for the question, though. Hope I don't come off to abrasive. I value discussion like this. Makes it easier to "find" yourself. Its amazing how many people don't know what they believe. I do. Gregg. Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!walter!phelix!mdl From: mdl@phelixsalt (Michael Lynch) Subject: Re: THE NATURE OF REALITY Message-ID: <1992Aug7.153545.20114@walter.bellcore.com> Sender: news@walter.bellcore.com Nntp-Posting-Host: phelix.bellcore.com Reply-To: mdl@phelixsalt (Michael Lynch) Organization: Bellcore References: <1992Aug7.152034.14241@usenet.ins.cwru.edu> Date: Fri, 7 Aug 92 15:35:45 GMT Lines: 11 This cattle incident has been mentioned several times, and being new to this group, I don't know what's being referred to. Now that I know that some kind of surgery was performed, and that there was no blood in or around the carcasses, I want to know more. I remember (barely) something about anal butchery, or missing anuses, of some livestock. Is that what you're speaking of? Maybe it wasn't livestock, come to think of it. Was it wild animals? Mike Lynch Xref: icaen alt.alien.visitors:8066 alt.paranormal:5576 Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.paranormal Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!darwin.sura.net!wupost!m.cs.uiuc.edu!cs.uiuc.edu!mcgrath From: mcgrath@cs.uiuc.edu (Robert McGrath) Subject: Re: THE NATURE OF REALITY(was Is Bigfoot a Message-ID: <1992Aug7.164145.29742@m.cs.uiuc.edu> Sender: news@m.cs.uiuc.edu (News Database (admin-Mike Schwager)) Reply-To: mcgrath@cs.uiuc.edu Organization: University of Illinois, Dept of Computer Science References: <1992Aug7.030151.20986@random.ccs.northeastern.edu> Date: Fri, 7 Aug 1992 16:41:45 GMT Lines: 37 In article , jdr@starflight.Corp.Sun.COM (Jon Roland) writes in part: |> Properly skeptical questioning and evaluation of witness reports is a valuable |> contribution to discourse on this subject. Rude putdowns are not. Fortunately, |> contributors of the latter are sufficiently consistent that they can be added |> to everyone's kill file without fear of loss of anything useful in some future |> contribution. |> |> |> So, a word to "schleptics": If you want to continue to have your contributions |> accepted by members of these groups, then make your contributions constructive |> and worth reading by those of us who seldom flame or appreciate those that do. I certainly would agree that rude putdowns are a bad idea. However, as one who ahs been accused of being rude when in fact I was saying that someone was mistaken, I note that some people are so sensative that any criticism of their views is taken as a personal attack. Please try to distinguish between misundertanding or disagreement (however wrongheaded it might appear) and personal attack. |> On the other hand, it would also be helpful if witnesses would simply report |> the facts of their experiences in a straightforward manner and with a minimum |> of interpretation led by either paranoia or wishful thinking. And, I would add, be prepared for the real possiblity that no matter what you say, SOMEONE will misunderstand it, and SOMEONE will disagree with it. If you can't stand the electronic heat, stay out of the electronic kitchen! -- Robert E. McGrath Urbana Illinois mcgrath@cs.uiuc.edu If you are autmatically deleting things with my name, here is a special message just for you: Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sdd.hp.com!mips!darwin.sura.net!jvnc.net!netnews.upenn.edu!grip.cis.upenn.edu!jmv From: jmv@grip.cis.upenn.edu (Jean-Marc Vezien) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: THE NATURE OF REALITY Message-ID: <85571@netnews.upenn.edu> Date: 7 Aug 92 15:54:49 GMT References: <1992Aug7.152034.14241@usenet.ins.cwru.edu> Sender: news@netnews.upenn.edu Organization: GRASP Lab Lines: 73 Nntp-Posting-Host: grip.cis.upenn.edu In article <1992Aug7.152034.14241@usenet.ins.cwru.edu>, cc203@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (David R. Stepien) writes: > And of course, the aliens must think just like we do, so of course > we can logically reason out why this behavior would be ridiculous for > them. More likely, they think very differently than we do, and what > might seem incongruous to us is just normal to them. Abductees frequently > report that the aliens just can't seem to understand a lot of our > behavior, so why should we assume we can understand theirs? > Sure, the aliens can think very differently than us, but consider: - they pick up cattle for experiment. Well, seems to me that this is a behaviour that, although a little strange (after all they could have kidnapped wild animals, fishes and so on, without too much fuss), is not BEYOUND my comprehension. Also, I consider the fact that (very strangely IMHO) those ETs are human-shaped. This leads me to think we share commun attributes, and "intelligence" is one of them. I don't consider their attitude uncomprehensible, but just find it very akward. It looks as if those poor little greys wanted to keep their existence secret, but goofed every now and then. Hard to believe... > As I run into this type of skepticism all the time, I ask you: Have you > actually researched this subject? If not, then read "An Alien Harvest", > or get the video. Then let me hear your explanation for the following > documented HARD FACTS: > > 1. No tracks whatsoever around the carcasses.> 1. No tracks whatsoever around the carcasses. > 2. All blood completely drained from the bodies, but no blood on the > ground. > 3. Surgery performed by a laser type cauterizing instrument. This was > documented in the late 70's when human medical technology was not > that advanced. Even now you would have to cart a truckload of > equipment out to a site to do this. > 4. Sightings, sightings, sightings.. Too bad, I studied the subject (about 10 years ago). I studied the "Blue Book" investigation, and found strange things. But no HARD FACT. > 1. No tracks whatsoever around the carcasses. You obviously never tried to hide tracks. Not a too difficult job, if you want to. > 2. All blood completely drained from the bodies, but no blood on the > ground. Well ? the blood was drained somewhere else ! > 3. Surgery performed by a laser type cauterizing instrument. This was > documented in the late 70's when human medical technology was not > that advanced. Even now you would have to cart a truckload of > equipment out to a site to do this. I'd like to see any conclusive proof that laser was actually used. As you point it out, laser technology was not that advanced at that time. > 4. Sightings, sightings, sightings.. As I said, no serious sighting ever involved a reasonable amount of persons. Let me precise this: I'd be delighted to find out I am wrong, and that Aliens exist. Please give me the exact references of "An Alien Harvest", I'll read it. But on the evidences I've seen so far, I see no reason to use extra-terrestrial explanations for the reported facts. Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sdd.hp.com!mips!darwin.sura.net!jvnc.net!netnews.upenn.edu!grip.cis.upenn.edu!jmv From: jmv@grip.cis.upenn.edu (Jean-Marc Vezien) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: circles... Message-ID: <85578@netnews.upenn.edu> Date: 7 Aug 92 16:16:09 GMT References: Sender: news@netnews.upenn.edu Organization: GRASP Lab Lines: 39 Nntp-Posting-Host: grip.cis.upenn.edu In article , nateh@quake.sylmar.ca.us (Nate Hawthorn) writes: > To: rutkows@ccu.umanitoba.ca (Chris Rutkowski) > > and any other people near these circle areas: > [Stuff about a wide band spectrum analizer deleted] > > You could then get a general direction of a craft from this data. If > they are using some sort of gravity "generating" or "negating" drive > this should work. > > If you don't understand why, son't worry, just try it, what will it take if > you are already out there and have the equipment anyway. > Well, Nate, if you have a "gravity drive" detector, please send me the plans. I want to be rich too. > The idea is that the next day after you take these readings, you may find > a circle in the same direction you found the signal loss (or gain). > > All I can say is if you can, try it. It could be real interesting. > Yes, and the results will be sooo easy to analyze. Nate, don't post how to make an atomic bomb. Someone may get hurt. JM. Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!munnari.oz.au!deakin.OZ.AU!fulcrum.oz.au!steve From: steve@fulcrum.oz.au (Steve Taylor) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: John_-_Winston Poll Message-ID: <1992Aug7.081400.12022@fulcrum.oz.au> Date: 7 Aug 92 08:14:00 GMT References: <1992Aug3.210403.17035@unislc.uucp> Organization: The Fulcrum Consulting Group Lines: 18 In <1992Aug3.210403.17035@unislc.uucp> erc@unislc.uucp (Ed Carp) writes: >bernieb@cix.compulink.co.uk (Steve Browne) writes: >: Hear Hear! Some of us actually have to pay for our usenet access, and then >: have to pay to download it - 75% of which is absolutely of no interest to me, >: coz John's mailing publicly. >So? Talk to your feed site. I'm sure it would be no trouble at all to put >"!alt.alien.visitors" in /usr/lib/news/sys for your site... He's compaining about reading Winston's private mail, same as everyone else is - not about alt.alien.visitors, the group. C'mon - you've even quoted him saying "coz John's mailing publicly.". Steve steve@fulcrum.oz.au Xref: icaen alt.alien.visitors:8070 sci.skeptic:28510 alt.paranormal:5577 Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic,alt.paranormal Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!acd4!TEFS1!gvb From: gvb@TEFS1.acd.com (Gregg Brown) Subject: Public Opinion Poll. Message-ID: <1992Aug7.161433.25597@acd4.acd.com> Sender: news@acd4.acd.com (USENET News System) Organization: Applied Computing Devices, Inc. Date: Fri, 7 Aug 1992 16:14:33 GMT Lines: 43 I am taking a poll. This is a public opinion poll. This is a multiple choice quiz on what you believe. Here are the questions: #1: The abductions we are so fond of discussing are ___. a. a product of a fervent imagination b. dilusions caused by psycological scars c. government sponsored experiments (any government, not just US) d. just dreams e. alien sponsored physical, etc. examinations f. implanted by Abduction writers g. dreams inspired by movies and book read by the abductee h. Other ________________ #2: UFO crashes are ________________. a. non-existent and are only figments of the imagination b. alien spacecraft that crashland on earth c. item (b) and covered up by the government Please send me replies via e-mail. Results will be published. Responses will not. All replies will be kept in confidence unless otherwise noted by the author. No replies will be made via e-mail or this newsgroup. If possible, please print out this message and pass it around. I want to reach a "general" populace. Not just people that read alt.alien.visitors since that would be very biased in a single direction. Results will be published when the e-mail slows down. Please make your responses as short as possible. For example: --- start example --- #1:b #2:a I think ufos are just a bunch of malarky. <---- this line and following lines are optional and not required Jim X. Xyz --- end example --- Send replies to gvb@acd4.acd.com Gregg. Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sdd.hp.com!apollo.hp.com!netnews From: nelson_p@apollo.hp.com (Peter Nelson) Subject: Re: We have met the enemy and they are us. Sender: usenet@apollo.hp.com (Usenet News) Message-ID: Date: Fri, 7 Aug 1992 17:46:38 GMT References: <1992Aug4.192810.9808@acd4.acd.com> <1992Aug6.225257.7362@mprgate.mpr.ca> Nntp-Posting-Host: c.ch.apollo.hp.com Organization: Hewlett-Packard Corporation, Chelmsford, MA Lines: 50 In article <1992Aug6.225257.7362@mprgate.mpr.ca> spani@mprgate.mpr.ca (Leonard Spani) writes: >In article , nelson_p@apollo.hp.com (Peter Nelson) writes: >|> In article <1992Aug4.192810.9808@acd4.acd.com> gvb@TEFS1.acd.com (Gregg Brown) writes: >|> > >|> >Thanks Jim. Thats an angle I had not approached. So far I have just >|> >a few facts on all this "abduction thing". >|> > >|> >#1: They have and probably are occuring. This points out the fact that I >|> > do not believe the people are "just dreaming". I beleive the events >|> > really did take place, at least in some cases. In others, it may just >|> > be a dream. The abductions are taking place. People are being (of have >|> > been) examined. >|> >|> Why do you call this a "fact"? Or are you just referring to your belief >|> as the fact, i.e., "It is a fact that I believe this."? >|> >|> In the absence of ANY physical evidence of adbuctions the best you can >|> say about them is that they are *claims* of abduction. Some people >|> have scars, but scars don't tell you much about their origin and >|> certainly say nothing about abductions. Some people claim to have >|> had removed artifacts implanted by the aliens, but no one has ever >|> produced one of these for study. (although several have claimed to). >|> >|> The sheer number of people making abduction claims means nothing --- >|> millions of people claim to have, or to have had, personal contact >|> with God (or the diety of their choice) but this doesn't offer much >|> persuasive evidence that God (or the diety of their choice) exists >|> or has the attributes they ascribe to . >|> >|> So the bottom line is that there's no evidence that abductions deserve >|> the moniker "fact". >|> > >Well.. yes and no. > >The abduction phenomenon is as real as the UFO phenomenon. They are both >"facts". What are not facts are the proposed causes of the phenomenon >(i.e. the theories to explain the phenomenon (ETH, psychological, etc..)) I agree that it is a fact that many people believe in these things. But the original poster *appeared* to be claiming that the abductions themselves were facts, i.e, that people really were being abducted, experimented on, etc. ---peter Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!olivea!decwrl!pa.dec.com!nntpd2.cxo.dec.com!nntpd.lkg.dec.com!ryn.mro4.dec.com!est.enet.dec.com!randolph From: randolph@est.enet.dec.com (Tom Randolph) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Ley Lines Message-ID: <1992Aug7.165152.11170@ryn.mro4.dec.com> Date: 7 Aug 92 19:42:14 GMT References: <1992Aug5.174301.2719@random.ccs.northeastern.edu> <63574@cup.portal.com> Sender: news@ryn.mro4.dec.com (USENET News System) Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation Lines: 15 In article <63574@cup.portal.com>, thad@cup.portal.com (Thad P Floryan) writes... >The word "tide" reminds me of the inexcusable error in ASIMOV ON ASTRONOMY >where he misstated the reason for simultaneous high tides on opposite sides >of the earth. He neglected to treat the earth and moon as a 2-body system >whose center of gravity is displaced from earth's center towards the moon >(and thus overlooked centrifugal force). > >Thad Floryan [ thad@cup.portal.com ] Huh? Please elaborate on the above, particularly what would occur if the Moon was stationary relative to the Earth. Also, please explain solar tides and why they occur on both sides of the Earth. -Tom R. randolph@est.enet.dec.com Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!olivea!decwrl!pa.dec.com!nntpd2.cxo.dec.com!nntpd.lkg.dec.com!ryn.mro4.dec.com!est.enet.dec.com!randolph From: randolph@est.enet.dec.com (Tom Randolph) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Moon Activities Message-ID: <1992Aug7.165655.11377@ryn.mro4.dec.com> Date: 7 Aug 92 19:52:36 GMT References: <1992Aug7.131417.8955@nntpd2.cxo.dec.com> Sender: news@ryn.mro4.dec.com (USENET News System) Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation Lines: 13 In article <1992Aug7.131417.8955@nntpd2.cxo.dec.com>, timpson@acetek.enet.dec.com () writes... > The crater that may have been the result of the 11th/12th century > explosion witnessed by the monks is Tyco. Could be wrong but it is in the right area. > > Steve Oh, for pete's sake, people!! One post with this, maybe, but two? It was -not- Tycho! Tycho is nowhere near the spot where the explosion was seen. It was at the upper right of the Moon as seen from the northern hemisphere of Earth, near Mare Crisium. This was just in Sky & Telescope within the last month or two. -Tom R. randolph@est.enet.dec.com Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!caen!sdd.hp.com!apollo.hp.com!netnews From: nelson_p@apollo.hp.com (Peter Nelson) Subject: Re: We have met the enemy and they are us. Sender: usenet@apollo.hp.com (Usenet News) Message-ID: Date: Fri, 7 Aug 1992 18:23:54 GMT References: <1992Aug4.192810.9808@acd4.acd.com> <1992Aug7.145023.25274@acd4.acd.com> Nntp-Posting-Host: c.ch.apollo.hp.com Organization: Hewlett-Packard Corporation, Chelmsford, MA Lines: 107 In article <1992Aug7.145023.25274@acd4.acd.com> gvb@TEFS1.acd.com (Gregg Brown) writes: >In article nelson_p@apollo.hp.com (Peter Nelson) writes: >> In the absence of ANY physical evidence of adbuctions the best you can >> say about them is that they are *claims* of abduction. Some people >> have scars, but scars don't tell you much about their origin and >> certainly say nothing about abductions. Some people claim to have >> had removed artifacts implanted by the aliens, but no one has ever >> produced one of these for study. (although several have claimed to). > >Its amazing the correlation between the number of "mysterious scars" >and people who "claim" to have been abducted. Is it? I've seen very widely varying estimates of the number of the number of people who claim to have been adbucted, and no consistent data about "mysterious scars". Do you have any hard, verifiable numbers on these? If not then you can make no claims about correlations. >> The sheer number of people making abduction claims means nothing --- >> millions of people claim to have, or to have had, personal contact >> with God (or the diety of their choice) but this doesn't offer much >> persuasive evidence that God (or the diety of their choice) exists >> or has the attributes they ascribe to . > >True. However, when many people who are not in contact in any way with >each other start claiming and describing similar events, what are we >to think? That they're all part of the same culture? Australian Aboriginal accounts of Dreamtime are remarkably consistent across different tribes which have no contact with each other, either. And they didn't even have the unifying cultural force of mass-media. > However, how much evidence do you haave to be presented >for something to be considered a fact. Physical evidence. I don't apply any different standard to this topic than I do to the relative reliability of Hondas to Chevy's, whether exothermic cold fusion is real, whether there is a "hole" in the ozone layer, or any other technical topic. I expect some kind of decent data, research, etc, not just personal anec- dotes and a total lack of physical evidence. I think abductions are an interesting phenomenon, but I have never seen any reason to think that they are not merely an interesting *psychological* phenomenon, and nothing more. But, as always, I am willing to be convinced otherwise. >The "fact" remains that anything can be faked. We don't really know > black holes are black holes. We don't really know galaxies are galaxies. > It could be just claims by the scientific community. Back in the late > sixties when the USA put the first man on the moon, there were a lot > of people that didn't believe that either. The difference is that in the moon landing we didn't just have a bunch of guys who *said* they went to the moon; we had photos, videotapes, audio tapes, moon rocks, elaborate equipment, and purchase orders. (there's also a reflector up there now which anyone can bounce a LASER beam off of). Now granted all of this physical evidence could be faked but at least it's there for you to examine to see if you think it's faked. In the case of abduc- tion reports we don't even have that. I'm not complaining that the abduction evidence is fake; I'm saying no abduction evidence is available for examination. Get us a video of someone being abducted and then we can examine it and see if we think it's fake. >It might be night. Maybe it is! I may be wrong. However, in my opinion >the abductions have been or are taking place. Yes, we've established that it's your opinion. You haven't offered any reason why it should be OUR opinion. >internal) shows there is something going on. What proof do you offer that ^^^^^ >these scars, landing spots and other misc. physical evidence does not >prove something is going on. ^^^ (This should be an FAQ) The burden of proof is on the person making the *positive* assertion; I'm under no obligation to try to "prove a negative". This is simple logic; if you go to college you should take a logic course. > I also believe Jesus Chist died for my sins. Why? Because I believe. When you get to college, go to the library (the big building with all the books) and find a dictionary (typically a very big book on a stand by itself in the Reference section -- ask the nice lady who works there) and look up the word "tautology". ---peter Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!dtix!darwin.sura.net!mips!sdd.hp.com!usc!noiro.acs.uci.edu!ttinews!avatar!sorgatz From: sorgatz@avatar.tti.com (sorgatz) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: TAKE THE GUN DISCUSSION OUTTA HERE! Message-ID: <1992Aug7.182747.8126@ttinews.tti.com> Date: 7 Aug 92 18:27:47 GMT Sender: usenet@ttinews.tti.com (Usenet Admin) Organization: Transaction Technology, Inc. Lines: 11 Nntp-Posting-Host: avatar.tti.com The subject line pretty much says it all, you people can read - the manifest for this newsgroup is not discussions about guns or gun control. Please take it to rec.guns or off to email, it has nothing whatsoever to do with anything that is being discussed here. -Avatar-> (aka: Erik K. Sorgatz) KB6LUY +-------------------------+ Citicorp(+)TTI *----------> panic trap; type = N+1 * 3100 Ocean Park Blvd. Santa Monica, CA 90405 +-------------------------+ {rutgers}!ttidca!sorgatz <- until 8/15/92 after-> (sorgatz@soldev.TTI.COM) Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!olivea!decwrl!csus.edu!netcom.com!payner From: payner@netcom.com (Rich Payne) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: THE NATURE OF REALITY Message-ID: Date: 7 Aug 92 18:24:58 GMT References: <1992Aug7.152034.14241@usenet.ins.cwru.edu> Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest) Lines: 58 In article <1992Aug7.152034.14241@usenet.ins.cwru.edu> cc203@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (David R. Stepien) writes: > [...] > >And of course, the aliens must think just like we do, so of course >we can logically reason out why this behavior would be ridiculous for >them. More likely, they think very differently than we do, and what >might seem incongruous to us is just normal to them. Abductees frequently >report that the aliens just can't seem to understand a lot of our >behavior, so why should we assume we can understand theirs? > >As I run into this type of skepticism all the time, I ask you: Have you >actually researched this subject? If not, then read "An Alien Harvest", >or get the video. Then let me hear your explanation for the following >documented HARD FACTS: > >1. No tracks whatsoever around the carcasses. >2. All blood completely drained from the bodies, but no blood on the > ground. >3. Surgery performed by a laser type cauterizing instrument. This was This part appears pure supposition to me. I would accept a statement that the carcasses appeared to have had surgery by what -appeared- to be a "laser type cauterizing instrument". But I have a problem with this as a statement of fact. I also recall reading that some scavengers leave similiar cuts, although I do not recall which. The logic here seems to be similiar to assuming that one could know how aliens think, except that here we are describing the tools they use for their dirty work. I recall no abduction reports that witnessed aliens working on animals, nor do I recall any ground reports. As an aside, if UFO's are causing crop circles, etc..., would it not be more likely to find some sort of landing site near some of the animal carcasses? I do not recall reading of any. > documented in the late 70's when human medical technology was not > that advanced. Even now you would have to cart a truckload of > equipment out to a site to do this. Or better yet, do -in- the truck, then drop the carcass out the back. Yeah, no tracks. >4. Sightings, sightings, sightings.. Despite being a sky watcher, I have yet to see one. Maybe someday... BTW, I have seen many things that I could not identify, but longer observation has always allowed for a mundane observation. >_________________________________________________________________ >David Stepien >Email : stepiend@rcwcl1.dnet.bp.com >----------------------------------------------------------------- Rich payner@netcom.com Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!usc!wupost!darwin.sura.net!mips!mips!rtech!ingres!kevinq From: kevinq@Ingres.COM (Kevin Quinn) Subject: Re: Ley Lines Message-ID: <1992Aug7.181726.6106@pony.Ingres.COM> Reply-To: kevinq@Ingres.COM (Kevin Quinn) Organization: Ask Computer Systems Inc., Ingres Division, Alameda CA 94501 References: <1992Aug5.174301.2719@random.ccs.northeastern.edu> <63466@cup.portal.com> <+xxm-8-@lynx.unm.edu> <63579@cup.portal.com> Date: 7 Aug 92 18:17:26 GMT Lines: 28 In article <63579@cup.portal.com> John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes: >Dear Ley Liners: Last weekend I made a trip down into the ruins of >a 30,000 year old city in southern Calif. and one of the things >I did see was some rock walls that are just about like the Mysterious >Rock Walls that extend from Berkeley to Milpitas, Calif. The person ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Sounds like the Hayward fault to me, John. >giving the tour said that the walls were made, among other things, to >focus the Ley Lines in the area. You need to find some sane and straight guides, John! Unless, of course, you really enjoy the contact highs. Then again, reviewing some of your posts, it would seem that is precisely the case! >John Winston. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Timothy Leary wannabe. kbq -- Kevin Quinn | kevinq@ingres.com | {mtzinu,pacbell,ll-winken,sun}!ingres.com My opinions are my own. Should you think otherwise, think again. Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!usc!sdd.hp.com!mips!mips!rtech!ingres!kevinq From: kevinq@Ingres.COM (Kevin Quinn) Subject: Re: Disinformation Agents at Work? Message-ID: <1992Aug7.182216.6460@pony.Ingres.COM> Keywords: UFO disinformation Reply-To: kevinq@Ingres.COM (Kevin Quinn) Organization: Ask Computer Systems Inc., Ingres Division, Alameda CA 94501 References: <1tymt#-.vere@netcom.com> Date: 7 Aug 92 18:22:16 GMT Lines: 30 In article <1tymt#-.vere@netcom.com> vere@netcom.com (Steven Vere) writes: > > For the sake of argument, let's assume the US government has an >active program of coverup and disinformation for UFO material. As >part of its charter, the responsible organization would of course >monitor UFO related publications and groups. In particular, they >would probably be monitoring alt.alien.visitors. The principle of >disinformation and active measures would call for government agents, >posing as private citizens, to post skeptical replies and attacks on >legitimate reports of UFO experiences, to try to shut them up, >neutralize them, and discourage others from publicly reporting >their experiences. [stuff deleted] > Steven Vere 70571.521@compuserve.com Steve: Sorry to have to tell you this, old pal, but the penalty for breaking our cover is immediate processing into fast food for the greys. You are hereby directed to jump into the giant underground grey food processor, whose location you of course know. If you'd only kept your mouth shut... kbq -- Kevin Quinn | kevinq@ingres.com | {mtzinu,pacbell,ll-winken,sun}!ingres.com My opinions are my own. Should you think otherwise, think again. Xref: icaen alt.alien.visitors:8079 alt.paranormal:5578 Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.paranormal Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!caen!sdd.hp.com!apollo.hp.com!netnews From: nelson_p@apollo.hp.com (Peter Nelson) Subject: Re: THE NATURE OF REALITY(was Is Bigfoot a Sender: usenet@apollo.hp.com (Usenet News) Message-ID: Date: Fri, 7 Aug 1992 18:42:35 GMT References: <1992Aug7.030151.20986@random.ccs.northeastern.edu> <1992Aug7.164145.29742@m.cs.uiuc.edu> Nntp-Posting-Host: c.ch.apollo.hp.com Organization: Hewlett-Packard Corporation, Chelmsford, MA Lines: 44 In article <1992Aug7.164145.29742@m.cs.uiuc.edu> mcgrath@cs.uiuc.edu writes: >In article , jdr@starflight.Corp.Sun.COM (Jon Roland) writes in part: > >|> Properly skeptical questioning and evaluation of witness reports is a valuable >|> contribution to discourse on this subject. Rude putdowns are not >I certainly would agree that rude putdowns are a bad idea. However, >as one who ahs been accused of being rude when in fact I was saying >that someone was mistaken, I note that some people are so sensative >that any criticism of their views is taken as a personal attack. I don't even think that there's anything wrong with rude putdowns as long as they are appropriate. Calling someone an "asshole" or saying, "Oh yeah, well so's yer old man!" require no skill and say nothing about the weaknesses of the other poster's arguments are, and hence are witless. But if another poster shows evidence of a total lack of scholarship in, say logic, science, or other academic subjects then I think there is nothing wrong with, say, responding in small, simple words, which indicate your lack of confidence in his reading skills or educational attainment. "Rudeness" (putdowns) in debate have a long and respectable tradition. Some of the greatest debaters and politicians in the world have cut their teeth in the British Parliament where this is widely and well practiced. Famous historical example -- MP: "My opponent will either die on the gallows or of the pox" (his opponent on the other side of the aisle): "That depends on whether I endorse my opponent's principles or his mistress!" I judge a putdown not on whether it was rude, but on how skilled it was. Generally I would rather be skillfully insulted than clumsily complimented. >If you can't stand the electronic heat, stay out of the electronic >kitchen! ---peter Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!dtix!darwin.sura.net!mips!odin!slugo.corp.sgi.com!rodb From: rodb@slugo.corp.sgi.com (Rod Beckwith) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Gulf Breeze Six In The News Again Message-ID: <1992Aug7.190558.4621@odin.corp.sgi.com> Date: 7 Aug 92 19:05:58 GMT References: <1992Aug5.143625.23178@engage.pko.dec.com> <63496@cup.portal.com> <1992Aug7.032346.21143@random.ccs.northeastern.edu> Sender: news@odin.corp.sgi.com (Net News) Organization: Silicon Graphics, Inc. Lines: 24 Nntp-Posting-Host: slugo.corp.sgi.com RA, THE NAME IS ROD!! ^^^^^ Or wasn't there enough evidence to provide you with that information? ROD ROD ROD ROD ROD ROD ROD ROD -- Rod Beckwith |$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ Datacom I/S |"The great obstacle of progress is not ignorance, rodb@corp.sgi.com|but the illusion of knowledge." |$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ -- Rod Beckwith |$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ Datacom I/S |"The great obstacle of progress is not ignorance, rodb@corp.sgi.com|but the illusion of knowledge." |$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!acd4!TEFS1!gvb From: gvb@TEFS1.acd.com (Gregg Brown) Subject: Re: Crop Circles? Message-ID: <1992Aug7.181652.26139@acd4.acd.com> Sender: news@acd4.acd.com (USENET News System) Organization: Applied Computing Devices, Inc., Terre Haute IN References: <1992Aug5.115146.14670@unislc.uucp> Date: Fri, 7 Aug 1992 18:16:52 GMT Lines: 19 In article nateh@quake.sylmar.ca.us (Nate Hawthorn) writes: [Media sensational views deleted] >I'm sure there's lots going on, too bad we don't have a "circles.data" on >here somewhere that posts GIF files and long/lat of these circles (and any >other data on the circle)... > >Too bad, these are what Mr. Homes would love, CLUES left behind from >gravity drive! > >Nate.. Gravity Drive???!!! I need some real details on this. INPUT! INPUT! Gregg. Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!usc!sdd.hp.com!mips!darwin.sura.net!jvnc.net!yale.edu!ira.uka.de!rz.uni-karlsruhe.de!stepsun.uni-kl.de!sun.rhrk.uni-kl.de!efes.physik.uni-kl.de!kring From: kring@efes.physik.uni-kl.de (Thomas Kettenring) Subject: Re: Where are you ET? (was Re: Moon Activities?) Message-ID: <1992Aug7.165925.8701@rhrk.uni-kl.de> Sender: news@rhrk.uni-kl.de Organization: FB Physik, Universitaet Kaiserslautern, Germany References: <139502.2A79E0E1@paranet.FIDONET.ORG> <1992Aug5.092002.400@crc.ac.uk> <1992Aug6.140606.19606@acd4.acd.com> Date: Fri, 7 Aug 1992 16:59:25 GMT Lines: 24 In article <1992Aug6.140606.19606@acd4.acd.com>, gvb@TEFS1.acd.com (Gregg Brown) writes: >In article <1992Aug5.092002.400@crc.ac.uk>sgamble@crc.ac.uk (Steve Gamble x3293) writes: > >[Content of Michael Corbin's message and Steve's response deleted] > >> >>POSTSCRIPT: >> >>Around 90% of UFO reports can be explained after careful investigation >>to be mis-identifications of man-made objects or of natural phenomena. > >I believe this is correct. Can anyone substantiate this? I can't. But I think 90% is pretty good. What are the clearing-up rates for crimes? (is clearing-up the right word? I mean, how many criminals are found out) I bet most of them are much worse. But though the police have not as good clearing-up rates, they handle the cases better where they can't find out who committed a crime. They don't claim it must have been aliens... -- --------------thomas kettenring, 2 dan, kaiserslautern, germany--------------- Definition: Idiot-proof - you are idiot-proof when you NEVER flame anybody. Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!sun-barr!cs.utexas.edu!usc!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!The-Star.honeywell.com!umn.edu!lynx!carina.unm.edu!cary From: cary@carina.unm.edu (Ithlial the Archer) Subject: Re: circles... Message-ID: Date: Fri, 07 Aug 92 19:16:18 GMT Organization: University of New Mexico, Albuquerque References: Lines: 78 In article nateh@quake.sylmar.ca.us (Nate Hawthorn) writes: >To: rutkows@ccu.umanitoba.ca (Chris Rutkowski) > >and any other people near these circle areas: > >Please try this, I don't have the $$ or the time to do this, but maybe >you have atleast the location and you can get others to get together >with the equipment to do this: > > >Get one of those spectrum analyzers that are a baord for a PC, have then >get a wide band antenna that is directional and mount it to a >motor that rotates at a constant speed. > >Make it so that the antenna sweeps across the area(a) that you want to look >at, preferrably on a hill top above several crop circle areas. > >You need to have a pulse that is sent to the computer every revolution. > >Now the computer will know where in the revolution it may detect a >lower noise level. > >You will then need to make the spectrum analyzer swwep as wide band as >possible (at first, maybe you will find a certian area to sweep later, >but I think it will be pretty much all across the bands), and write a >simple program to take any signals above the general "average" noise >level out. YOu want a average value for the noise level that can >vary up and down during one revolution. > >In other words, the antenna sweeps around and you are looking for a >"drop" or "raise" in the background noise level in a small area >during the sweep. > >It would look something like this: > >Sweep start Sweep end > > > O > O O > O O >OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO > >THe bottom line would be a normal noise level. > >You could then get a general direction of a craft from this data. If >they are using some sort of gravity "generating" or "negating" drive >this should work. > >If you don't understand why, son't worry, just try it, what will it take if >you are already out there and have the equipment anyway. > >The idea is that the next day after you take these readings, you may find >a circle in the same direction you found the signal loss (or gain). > >All I can say is if you can, try it. It could be real interesting. > >If you can't, then don't bother me with questions, I'm too busy. > >I don't know how to explain it further, this should suffice for anyone who >understands electronics and radio and computers. > >Later if it works, you can build a better sensor. This is crude but should >work ok for a quick experiment. > >Nate.. cary@ursaminor.unm.edu My opinions, mine, mine, mine! I bet the main reason the police keep people away from a plane crash is they don't want anybody walking in and lying down in the crash stuff, then, when some comes up, act like they just woke up and go, "What, was THAT?!" Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!paladin.american.edu!darwin.sura.net!jvnc.net!yale.edu!yale!gumby!destroyer!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!The-Star.honeywell.com!umn.edu!lynx!carina.unm.edu!cary From: cary@carina.unm.edu (Ithlial the Archer) Subject: Re: circles... Message-ID: Date: Fri, 07 Aug 92 19:27:18 GMT Organization: University of New Mexico, Albuquerque References: Lines: 62 Hi folks, To start off I apoligize for posting a reply with only my .sig in it. My brain went off line for a bit there. It happens. In article nateh@quake.sylmar.ca.us (Nate Hawthorn) writes: >To: rutkows@ccu.umanitoba.ca (Chris Rutkowski) > >Get one of those spectrum analyzers that are a baord for a PC, have then >get a wide band antenna that is directional and mount it to a >motor that rotates at a constant speed. > >Make it so that the antenna sweeps across the area(a) that you want to look >at, preferrably on a hill top above several crop circle areas. > >You need to have a pulse that is sent to the computer every revolution. > >You could then get a general direction of a craft from this data. If >they are using some sort of gravity "generating" or "negating" drive >this should work. > >If you don't understand why, son't worry, just try it, what will it take if >you are already out there and have the equipment anyway. So you're saying that an antenna that detects e-m waves can detect gravity waves too? I know/know alot of folks who wish this were true. It would make their attempts at detecting gravitational radiation orders of magnitude cheaper and easier. > >The idea is that the next day after you take these readings, you may find >a circle in the same direction you found the signal loss (or gain). > >All I can say is if you can, try it. It could be real interesting. Or you could get the local Z-Rock station (TM)! > >If you can't, then don't bother me with questions, I'm too busy. > >I don't know how to explain it further, this should suffice for anyone who >understands electronics and radio and computers. Puh-leez! It pretty obvious that you don't understand the difference between electromagnetics and gravitation! Note to mention that fact that you take a very simplistic view of interfacing electronics to computers. > >Later if it works, you can build a better sensor. This is crude but should >work ok for a quick experiment. > >Nate.. Ithlial My opinions, mine, mine, mine! I bet the main reason the police keep people away from a plane crash is they don't want anybody walking in and lying down in the crash stuff, then, when some comes up, act like they just woke up and go, "What, was THAT?!" Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!menudo.uh.edu!lobster!nuchat!seven From: seven@nuchat.sccsi.com (David Paulsen) Subject: Nazi plots (was Re: Gulf Breeze Six In The News Again) Message-ID: <1992Aug7.012803.11738@nuchat.sccsi.com> Organization: Crazy Dave's Computer Emporium, Houston References: <1992Aug5.143625.23178@engage.pko.dec.com> <63496@cup.portal.com> <1992Aug6.150936.19385@news.eng.convex.com> Date: Fri, 7 Aug 1992 01:28:03 GMT Lines: 20 swarren@convex.com (Steve Warren) writes: > >As far as Nazi plots to arrest everyone, it's not going to happen unless >a lot of other things happen first. Americans are too independant. There >has to be a long-term focused propoganda campaign before a society like >ours will buy into something like that (not saying we are immune - just >that the bad guys have their work cut out for them if there really is >some kind of conspiracy like this). Look around you. In just a few short years, the War On Drugs has desensitized us to things that would have made us scream "Police state!" before. Hmmmmmmmm.... David -- David Paulsen seven@nuchat.sccsi.com | The Curiosity Shop BBS: 713/326-3729 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Weaseltronix: Software Solutions in Search of A Problem Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:11113 alt.alien.visitors:8086 sci.skeptic:28520 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!Don_-_Showen From: Don_-_Showen@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Subject: Re: Saga of the Family of Light I - Pleiadians13 Message-ID: <63596@cup.portal.com> Date: Fri, 7 Aug 92 13:50:55 PDT Organization: The Portal System (TM) References: <63422@cup.portal.com> <1992Aug5.175403.2821@random.ccs.northeastern.edu> Lines: 18 RA says >This is silly. I mean, go on all you want about 'light filaments' in DNA. >But don't tell me DNA has three strands. It just makes you sound stupid. Don't be concerned RA the Family of Light is less than 2% of the population. So of course YOUR DNA is going nowhere. People have the choice to follow their genetic program or to make the spiritual choice of activating their DNA through consciousness and choosing ones reality. I used to think I could convince people to make the spiritual choice but I have learned from this net that most deny the existence of their spirit (it would sound stupid). So I can see how one who is denying the existence of their spirit would not be able to conceive of being able to create their own reality and spiritually program their own DNA. So RA all of what I have to say on this net is going to sound stupid to you. Why don't you just put my name in your kill file so you will not be bothered by all these stupid, unbelievable ideas. Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!destroyer!fmsrl7!lynx!carina.unm.edu!cary From: cary@carina.unm.edu (Ithlial the Archer) Subject: Re: Ley Lines Message-ID: Date: Fri, 07 Aug 92 20:11:12 GMT Organization: University of New Mexico, Albuquerque References: <1992Aug5.174301.2719@random.ccs.northeastern.edu> <63574@cup.portal.com> <1992Aug7.165152.11170@ryn.mro4.dec.com> Lines: 60 In article <1992Aug7.165152.11170@ryn.mro4.dec.com> randolph@est.enet.dec.com (Tom Randolph) writes: > >Huh? >Please elaborate on the above, particularly what would occur if the Moon was >stationary relative to the Earth. Also, please explain solar tides and why >they >occur on both sides of the Earth. >-Tom R. randolph@est.enet.dec.com Ok here goes and excuse the ascii graphics! ----- -------- / \ / \ c / b \ a c~ / b~ \ a~ -------> to moon or sun \ / \ / (or whatever) \ / \ / ----- -------- The first rendition is the earth (or whatever) in isolation, no moon, sun or black holes et cetera. The second is the earth under the gravitaional influence of another body and is (hopefully) greatly exaggerated. Now the acceleration due to gravity falls off as the inverse square of the distance. Imagine circles centered on the influencing body drawn through points a, b and c. So you will get three concentric circles. Along each individual circle the acceleration due to gravity (adtg) is the same, but different from circle to circle. So the adtg at point a is greater than that at b which is greater than that at c. The practical upstart of this is that a is accelerated to a~, b stays where it is (b~) and c falls back to c~. Since the earth is rotating this results in a wave on the surface of the earth. The oceans are more susceptible to this since they are more flexible than the crust (being liquid and all that) although the bulge of the earth's crust has been measured. The reason that some places have higher tides than others is combination of land lockedness (is that a word) and topagraphy of the sea floor. I.e. the Sea of Cortez has very small tides since it's land locked on three sides, while the Bay of Fundy has 20+ foot tides because of the funneling effect of the shape of the bay. If the moon were stationary above the earth it would fall. 8} I assume you mean stationay and suspendend. Ruling the tides from the sun you would just have a bulge aligned along the direction pointing to the moon. So you would actually have any tides since the 'wave' wouldn't propogate around the earth. Basically this is how the moon sees earth (since it keeps the same orientation towards the earth.) However, since the moon is solid all the way through the bulge is _very_ small, if it has even been measured. If the moon had an ocean then the effect would be like that described for earth. Hope this explains enough. Ithlial My opinions, mine, mine, mine! The only good Troll is a dead Troll Collary: Trolls regenerate - There are no dead Trolls Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!usc!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!destroyer!ubc-cs!mprgate.mpr.ca!mprgate.mpr.ca!spani From: spani@mprgate.mpr.ca (Leonard Spani) Subject: Re: Disinformation Agents at Work? Message-ID: <1992Aug7.210206.18458@mprgate.mpr.ca> Followup-To: alt.alien.visitors Keywords: UFO disinformation Sender: news@mprgate.mpr.ca Organization: MPR Teltech Ltd., Burnaby, B.C., Canada References: <1tymt#-.vere@netcom.com> Date: Fri, 7 Aug 92 21:02:06 GMT Lines: 76 In article <1tymt#-.vere@netcom.com>, vere@netcom.com (Steven Vere) writes: |> |> For the sake of argument, let's assume the US government has an |> active program of coverup and disinformation for UFO material. As |> part of its charter, the responsible organization would of course |> monitor UFO related publications and groups. In particular, they |> would probably be monitoring alt.alien.visitors. The principle of |> disinformation and active measures would call for government agents, |> posing as private citizens, to post skeptical replies and attacks on |> legitimate reports of UFO experiences, to try to shut them up, |> neutralize them, and discourage others from publicly reporting |> their experiences. |> So, the next time you some incredibly closed-minded individual |> spouting off on this newsgroup, give the guy a break. He may just be |> some poor, underpaid government employee trying to do his job. |> -- [...] I have been thinking along similar lines myself. I figure the "government" would want to discredit the UFO subject whether they knew more about UFOs than the general public or not (i.e. to keep the secrets they have, or to get them first.) The military potential from any alien technology would be too much to resist. I was thinking of different methods I would use to discredit UFologists if I was a government: Debunking would work sometimes (for the general public) but if a UFO group got a hold of some solid scientific data, other scientists would not be fooled by shallow debunking. Personally, I don't pay any more attention to the occasional debunking on alt.alien.visitors than I do to Gary Stollman. The posters who label themselves skeptics are probably just afraid that someone will realize that they are (heaven forbid) interested in the subject so they act hostile and pretend that they only read the group to laugh at us poor saucer nuts ;^) Monkey-wrenching and heavy-handed techniques *might* prevent UFO groups from coming up with any hard-evidence, but if the spooks get caught they would add validity to the UFOlogists claims. Spying would certainly guarantee that the gov't would get the UFologists "secrets", but it would only help the gov't keep up, not get ahead. The best method I could come up with was disinformation, but not the "secret area-51 alien base" kind. The best way to prevent UFologists from acquiring scientific data would be to make sure that no scientist gets anywhere near a UFO group. They would want to make sure that UFOs were studied by amateurs without scientific support. The best way to ensure scientists avoid UFOs is to keep the subject closely associated with the lunatic fringe and religious cultists. The New Age movement provides the perfect cover for distributing this kind of disinformation. Any scientist concerned for his/her career will stay clear of UFOs. I know that some New Age cults are being used by right wing neo-facists for their purposes, but has anyone done any research that would trace any New Age material back to a government agency such as the CIA? Some of the New Age material I have read seems to be blatently manipulative. Almost like it was designed using a formula. It is sometimes fairly obvious that whoever wrote it was underestimating the inteligence of the reader (like I wasn't supposed to be able to tell I was being manipulated.) I imagine the government would be doing a little bit of all of the above, but the idea of New Age disinformation seems really good to me. I wonder how many "scientists" *read* alt.alien.visitors, but wouldn't dare post. Perhaps John Winston is a gov't disinformation agent... nah... hmmm... ;^) Any comments? -- *********************************************************************** | Leonard E. Spani | //!?\\ | (disclaimer-p) | | spani@mprgate.mpr.ca | \\?!// | t | *****************-<( "everybody thinks I'm paranoid" )>-*************** Xref: icaen alt.alien.visitors:8089 sci.skeptic:28521 alt.paranormal:5579 Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic,alt.paranormal Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sdd.hp.com!ux1.cso.uiuc.edu!m.cs.uiuc.edu!cs.uiuc.edu!mcgrath From: mcgrath@cs.uiuc.edu (Robert McGrath) Subject: Re: Public Opinion Poll. Message-ID: <1992Aug7.205502.18395@m.cs.uiuc.edu> Sender: news@m.cs.uiuc.edu (News Database (admin-Mike Schwager)) Reply-To: mcgrath@cs.uiuc.edu Organization: University of Illinois, Dept of Computer Science References: <1992Aug7.161433.25597@acd4.acd.com> Date: Fri, 7 Aug 1992 20:55:02 GMT Lines: 11 In article <1992Aug7.161433.25597@acd4.acd.com>, gvb@TEFS1.acd.com (Gregg Brown) writes: |> I am taking a poll. This is a public opinion poll. This is a multiple |> choice quiz on what you believe. I never answer surveys unless I am fully informed as to who is collecting it and why. -- Robert E. McGrath Urbana Illinois mcgrath@cs.uiuc.edu Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!sun-barr!cs.utexas.edu!natinst.com!news.dell.com!swrinde!sdd.hp.com!apollo.hp.com!netnews From: nelson_p@apollo.hp.com (Peter Nelson) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Nazi plots (was Re: Gulf Breeze Six In The News Again) Message-ID: Date: 7 Aug 92 21:15:26 GMT References: <63496@cup.portal.com> <1992Aug6.150936.19385@news.eng.convex.com> <1992Aug7.012803.11738@nuchat.sccsi.com> Sender: usenet@apollo.hp.com (Usenet News) Organization: Hewlett-Packard Corporation, Chelmsford, MA Lines: 32 Nntp-Posting-Host: c.ch.apollo.hp.com In article <1992Aug7.012803.11738@nuchat.sccsi.com> seven@nuchat.sccsi.com (David Paulsen) writes: >swarren@convex.com (Steve Warren) writes: >> >>As far as Nazi plots to arrest everyone, it's not going to happen unless >>a lot of other things happen first. Americans are too independant. There >>has to be a long-term focused propoganda campaign before a society like >>ours will buy into something like that (not saying we are immune - just >>that the bad guys have their work cut out for them if there really is >>some kind of conspiracy like this). > >Look around you. In just a few short years, the War On Drugs has desensitized >us to things that would have made us scream "Police state!" before. Oh, ca-ca! Read some history. The world didn't begin in 1970. In my parents' generation great works of literature such as _Ulysses_ were banned. The Hayes Commission *ruled* Hollywood protecting the "public morality". An employer could fire you for living with someone you weren't married to. Blacks in many states had to attend separate schools, drink from separate fountains, etc. If the police beat you up there was no commission or organization to complain to, etc, etc . . . Compared to the 1930's-1950's we're living in a #$%^! civil liber- tarian utopia. Things would have to get a LOT worse just to get as bad as they were then. ---peter Xref: icaen alt.alien.visitors:8091 alt.conspiracy:17541 alt.activism:30720 sci.skeptic:28527 misc.headlines:23332 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!paladin.american.edu!darwin.sura.net!tulane!mintir!incam!rj From: rj@incam.new-orleans.la.us (Ray Jones) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy,alt.activism,sci.skeptic,misc.headlines,alt.po Subject: Re: guns and criminals Message-ID: Date: Thu, 06 Aug 92 22:53:30 CDT References: Distribution: world Organization: Camelot BBS, New Orleans, LA Lines: 24 ccx018@cch.coventry.ac.uk (Leslie Griffiths (Griff)) writes: > >In article <1992Aug4.015333.21023@s1.gov> lip@s1.gov (Loren I. Petrich) writ > >> And one should learn ways of self-defense using one's own > >>body, so one can deal with assailants not equipped with guns. > > I've...thought that...best form of self-defense is to run away. Not > always practicable of course, but being fit-enough to leg it has its > advantages. > // 1. Everyone is not capable of defending theirselves with their body. Some people are not physically fit enough and still others are handicapped. 2. As for running away, try out-running a bullet. Lots of luck. Everyone is not capable of running away anyway due to the same reasons previously mentioned. Ray Jones ****************************************************************************** "Camelot" BBS rj@incam.new-orleans.la.us PRIVATE SYSTEM Fidonet address ray.jones@p38.f17.n396.z1.fidonet.org VOICE # 504-436-1826 Xref: icaen alt.alien.visitors:8092 alt.conspiracy:17542 alt.activism:30721 sci.skeptic:28528 misc.headlines:23333 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!paladin.american.edu!darwin.sura.net!tulane!mintir!incam!rj From: rj@incam.new-orleans.la.us (Ray Jones) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy,alt.activism,sci.skeptic,misc.headlines,alt.po Subject: Re: A racist argument against handgun control legislation. Message-ID: <8ZB5oB3w164w@incam.new-orleans.la.us> Date: Thu, 06 Aug 92 23:08:06 CDT References: <1992Aug5.092544.25579@etek.chalmers.se> Distribution: world Organization: Camelot BBS, New Orleans, LA Lines: 26 lindq@etek.chalmers.se (Johan Lindqvist) writes: > Because if (all) people own weapons, they become more widespread, also > among criminals. And are peple born criminals? No. They become criminals > by oppurtunity. And one important thing when committing a crime like > robbery, murder or rape is to...threat and harm the victim, which > is easily done with a gun. Conclution: > If guns are not so wide spread, criminals would have a hard time getting > them, and violent crimes would, hopefully, be reduced. Criminals will always have guns. In most inner cities, it is easier for a convicted felon to purchase a weapon than it is for a law-abiding citizen as well as being cheaper. When you consider what many criminals are willing to risk knowing their prey could easily have a gun and be able to protect themselves, consider what they would do if they had no reason to fear that their prey or anyone else in the vicinity would be able to shoot back. Ray Jones ****************************************************************************** "Camelot" BBS rj@incam.new-orleans.la.us PRIVATE SYSTEM Fidonet address ray.jones@p38.f17.n396.z1.fidonet.org VOICE # 504-436-1826 Xref: icaen alt.alien.visitors:8093 alt.paranormal:5580 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!noc.near.net!chaos!random.ccs.northeastern.edu!rogue From: rogue@ccs.northeastern.edu (Rogue Agent) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.paranormal Subject: Re: Viewing High Strangeness Material Message-ID: <1992Aug7.202121.5208@random.ccs.northeastern.edu> Date: 7 Aug 92 20:21:21 GMT References: <63493@cup.portal.com> <63576@cup.portal.com> Sender: news@random.ccs.northeastern.edu Organization: Comp. Sci. @ NU Lines: 17 In article <63576@cup.portal.com> thad@cup.portal.com (Thad P Floryan) writes: [...] > >Out of curiousity, is this something akin to what Peter Hurkos used to do >for police departments? If not, what would his "talent" be termed? I recall >that he appeared to be very credible (in picking up "impressions" of events >surrounding objects under investigation). I would guess that remote viewing is pretty close to what he claimed to do. I think he also claimed to be able to pick up impressions from objects owned by a missing person. Unfortunately for him, he was arrested shortly after attempting to assist police in the Boston Strangler affair, for impersonating a police officer. Seems his car was full of uniforms & guns - he'd pretend to be a cop & interview witnesses, then reveal the info to the real cops. Anybody know what happened to him? RA Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!sdd.hp.com!wupost!uunet!noc.near.net!chaos!random.ccs.northeastern.edu!rogue From: rogue@ccs.northeastern.edu (Rogue Agent) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Ley Lines Message-ID: <1992Aug7.205123.5412@random.ccs.northeastern.edu> Date: 7 Aug 92 20:51:23 GMT References: <63466@cup.portal.com> <+xxm-8-@lynx.unm.edu> <63579@cup.portal.com> Sender: news@random.ccs.northeastern.edu Organization: Comp. Sci. @ NU Lines: 8 In article <63579@cup.portal.com> John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes: >Dear Ley Liners: Last weekend I made a trip down into the ruins of >a 30,000 year old city in southern Calif. John - you may already have done this, but could you provide some evidence or a source for the claim that the city is 30,000 years old? RA Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!haven.umd.edu!darwin.sura.net!wupost!waikato.ac.nz!aukuni.ac.nz!kcbbs!kc Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Alien descriptions, why the greys?? Message-ID: <34382.220926265@kcbbs.gen.nz> From: Robert_Sutton@kcbbs.gen.nz (Robert Sutton) Date: 8 Aug 92 09:33:02 GMT References: <1992Aug6.084919.26652@crc.ac.uk> Organization: Kappa Crucis Unix BBS, Auckland, New Zealand Lines: 15 sgamble@crc.ac.uk(Steve Gamble x3293) 6Aug 92 08:49:19GMT types-- >Going back further in history we have the Kelly Hopkinsville(? Kentucky) >of ?(1949). Yes I'm pretty sure it was Kentucky b u t Was it the origin of the term Little Green Men?. If not what was? ************************ ARE ETOI SPACESHIPS SHY OR ARE THEY JUST WAITING TO SEAL THE ROYALTY DEAL ************************ Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!comp.vuw.ac.nz!waikato.ac.nz!aukuni.ac.nz!kcbbs!kc Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Moon Activities?y Message-ID: <31891.220926099@kcbbs.gen.nz> From: Robert_Sutton@kcbbs.gen.nz (Robert Sutton) Date: 8 Aug 92 08:51:31 GMT References: <1992Aug6.130658.11727@nntpd2.cxo.dec.com> Organization: Kappa Crucis Unix BBS, Auckland, New Zealand Lines: 15 timpson@acetek.enet.dec.com() Thu 6Aug1992 13:06:58 GMT types--- >WRONG >Monks witnessed a meteor/astroid or small comet impact. WRONG- Unless the moon did have alien visitors or a geological turnabout of the most boggle threshold expander kind. Is it related to R2D2 of previous posts?. ************************* ARE ETOI SPACESHIPS SHY OR ARE THEY JUST WAITING TO SEAL THE ROYALTY DEAL? *********************************** Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:11115 alt.alien.visitors:8097 sci.skeptic:28534 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!cis.ohio-state.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!darwin.sura.net!jvnc.net!yale.edu!yale!mintaka.lcs.mit.edu!chaos!random.ccs.northeastern.edu!rogue From: rogue@ccs.northeastern.edu (Rogue Agent) Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Subject: Re: Saga of the Family of Light I - Pleiadians13 Message-ID: <1992Aug8.001235.6119@random.ccs.northeastern.edu> Date: 8 Aug 92 00:12:35 GMT References: <63422@cup.portal.com> <1992Aug5.175403.2821@random.ccs.northeastern.edu> <63596@cup.portal.com> Sender: news@random.ccs.northeastern.edu Organization: Comp. Sci. @ NU Lines: 39 In article <63596@cup.portal.com> Don_-_Showen@cup.portal.com writes: >I say > >>This is silly. I mean, go on all you want about 'light filaments' in DNA. >>But don't tell me DNA has three strands. It just makes you sound stupid. > >Don't be concerned RA the Family of Light is less than 2% of the >population. So >of course YOUR DNA is going nowhere. People have the choice to follow their >genetic program or to make the spiritual choice of activating their DNA >through consciousness and choosing ones reality. OK - since you persist in saying that some people actually have 3-strand DNA (I don't care if it's everyone, 2 percent, or just one guy) - prove it. [...] >So RA all of what I have to say on this net is going to sound stupid to you. >Why don't you just put my name in your kill file so you will not be bothered >by all these stupid, unbelievable ideas. You're not getting off that easy :-). The question I have is 'why do _you_ believe some people (you?) have 3-strand DNA?'. Is it because an alien spoke through a channeler & told you so? Or is it because a genetecist or other qualified person examined the DNA & found it has 3 strands? The former holds no weight with me. I've already stated (in another post) that I could post stories that will make Gary Stollman look positively mundane :-). The latter, in any shape, would be _very_ interesting, not only to me, but many other people, including the Nobel Committee. All claims of sufficiently abnormal events need serious substantiation. Hatonn or a Grey or Elvis saying it through some woman in Kansas just doesn't cut it with me - and shouldn't with you. If it does, let me tell you about the stock tip Elvis gave me - it's a sure thing :-). If true, this is easily the most important discovery in Genetics in 50 years. Don't sit on it. RA Xref: icaen alt.alien.visitors:8098 alt.paranormal:5581 Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.paranormal Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!cs.utexas.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!destroyer!ubc-cs!mprgate.mpr.ca!mprgate.mpr.ca!spani From: spani@mprgate.mpr.ca (Leonard Spani) Subject: Re: THE NATURE OF REALITY(was Is Bigfoot a Message-ID: <1992Aug8.003619.20860@mprgate.mpr.ca> Followup-To: alt.alien.visitors,alt.paranormal Sender: news@mprgate.mpr.ca Organization: MPR Teltech Ltd., Burnaby, B.C., Canada References: <1992Aug7.030151.20986@random.ccs.northeastern.edu> <1992Aug7.164145.29742@m.cs.uiuc.edu> Date: Sat, 8 Aug 92 00:36:19 GMT Lines: 108 In article <1992Aug7.164145.29742@m.cs.uiuc.edu>, mcgrath@cs.uiuc.edu (Robert McGrath) writes: |> In article , jdr@starflight.Corp.Sun.COM (Jon Roland) writes in part: |> |> |> Properly skeptical questioning and evaluation of witness reports is a valuable |> |> contribution to discourse on this subject. Rude putdowns are not. Fortunately, |> |> contributors of the latter are sufficiently consistent that they can be added |> |> to everyone's kill file without fear of loss of anything useful in some future |> |> contribution. |> |> |> |> |> |> So, a word to "schleptics": If you want to continue to have your contributions |> |> accepted by members of these groups, then make your contributions constructive |> |> and worth reading by those of us who seldom flame or appreciate those that do. |> |> I certainly would agree that rude putdowns are a bad idea. However, |> as one who ahs been accused of being rude when in fact I was saying |> that someone was mistaken, I note that some people are so sensative |> that any criticism of their views is taken as a personal attack. |> Please try to distinguish between misundertanding or disagreement |> (however wrongheaded it might appear) and personal attack. It is very difficult for people not to take things personally when someone is commenting on their *personal* experience. You just can't tell someone that what they were "mistaken" about something they've experienced without them thinking you are calling them stupid, naive, or inexperienced. Most people would conclude that you were calling them liars. One of the reasons groups like alt.paranormal and alt.alien.visitors were created was so people could share their personal experiences without fear of ridicule. If it is ridicule they wanted, they would cross-post to sci.skeptic ;^) There is nothing wrong with suggesting alternative causes for people's experiences. A hypnogogic (or is it hypnopompic when you wake up) state is a reasonable explanation for the event that started this "discussion", and there is nothing wrong with suggesting that, but you shouldn't *argue* with the individual who actually experienced it. This is particularly important in abduction cases where the individual may have been traumatized. One of the problems abduction victims have is dealing with the ridicule heaped on them by society. If someone shares a *personal* experience with the net, they shouldn't have to *defend* their experience from people who basically call them liars. Commenting on the experience, suggesting possible causes, identifying inconsistences with interpretations, and sugessting references are all fine, but to argue with the person about what they experienced is rude and possibly cruel. With abductions, it doesn't really matter if the "event" actually took place in the objective sense, or if it was psychologically produced. The important thing to remember is that the person *believed* the experience to have happened and that the may be severly traumatized about the event. Arguing with people in these cases has all the sensitivity of arguing with rape victims and telling them that they must have been "mistaken." This is not a court of law it is a newsgroup. I'm not saying that we should abandon all critical thought, just that we should take particular care when replying to people's *personal* experiences. |> |> |> On the other hand, it would also be helpful if witnesses would simply report |> |> the facts of their experiences in a straightforward manner and with a minimum |> |> of interpretation led by either paranoia or wishful thinking. |> And, I would add, be prepared for the real possiblity that no matter |> what you say, SOMEONE will misunderstand it, and SOMEONE will disagree |> with it. |> absolutely. |> If you can't stand the electronic heat, stay out of the electronic |> kitchen! You're in the wrong kitchen ;^) As I said earlier, these groups were not created to provide skeptics debunking fodder. Alt.paranormal in particular was created for people to discuss paranormal topics free from the bother of *having* to prove the existance of what they wanted to talk about. I don't know why alt.alien.visitors was created, but judging by the name it isn't for debunking ;^) If you want to exercise vigorous, no holds barred, bare-knuckle, skepticism, use sci.skeptic. I realize that the sci.skeptic discussions get a little anal-retentive and boring sometimes, and groups like alt.paranormal and alt.alien.visitors look like they are just "asking for it", but it doesn't excuse rudeness. |> |> -- |> Robert E. McGrath |> Urbana Illinois |> mcgrath@cs.uiuc.edu |> |> If you are autmatically deleting things with my name, here is a special |> message just for you: where? ;^) Leonard. -- *********************************************************************** | Leonard E. Spani | //!?\\ | (disclaimer-p) | | spani@mprgate.mpr.ca | \\?!// | t | *****************-<( "everybody thinks I'm paranoid" )>-*************** Xref: icaen alt.alien.visitors:8099 alt.conspiracy:17546 alt.activism:30726 sci.skeptic:28535 misc.headlines:23339 alt.politics.bush:1828 talk.politics.guns:37661 Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy,alt.activism,sci.skeptic,misc.headlines,alt.politics.bush,talk.politics.guns Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!stanford.edu!CSD-NewsHost.Stanford.EDU!SAIL.Stanford.EDU!andy From: andy@SAIL.Stanford.EDU (Andy Freeman) Subject: Re: UFO "October Surprise" and USA TAKEOVER?! Message-ID: <1992Aug8.010530.4527@CSD-NewsHost.Stanford.EDU> Followup-To: talk.politics.guns Sender: news@CSD-NewsHost.Stanford.EDU Organization: Computer Science Department, Stanford University. References: <1992Aug1.073525.15555@hubcap.clemson.edu> <829@tdat.teradata.COM> Date: Sat, 8 Aug 1992 01:05:30 GMT Lines: 20 In article <829@tdat.teradata.COM> swf@tdat.teradata.com (Stanley Friesen) writes: >How many articles about children/neighbors/spouses *accidentally* shot >by a too readily available weapon do you want me to post? Go for it. Then someone will point out that the same numbers prove that you really don't care about accidental death, unless there's a gun involved. A less subtle person will point out that you don't really care about death at all, just guns. The alternative is that you don't know what you're talking about. It's your choice. Anyone who claims that gun accidents are a serious problem has just proved that they don't know anything about the rates or the accidents. (There are several interesting details about gun accidents that make competence training largely irrelevant, but you'd have to know something about gun "accidents" to know that.) -andy -- UUCP: {arpa gateways, sun, decwrl, uunet, rutgers}!cs.stanford.edu!andy ARPA: andy@cs.stanford.edu Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Ride on John's Back, Please! (Was: Re: Get Off John's Ba Message-ID: <63615@cup.portal.com> Date: Fri, 7 Aug 92 18:48:31 PDT Organization: The Portal System (TM) Distribution: world References: <14070@mindlink.bc.ca> <63578@cup.portal.com> Lines: 6 Dear Friends and Countryman and women: I don't know who is the person who determines when a collection is taken off but I would like to suggest that this collection (July the 4th etc>) be taken off. I will add one or more new ones, in the near future. If it is not taken off then that will be fine also. John Winston. Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Ley Lines Message-ID: <63616@cup.portal.com> Date: Fri, 7 Aug 92 18:51:16 PDT Organization: The Portal System (TM) References: <63466@cup.portal.com> <+xxm-8-@lynx.unm.edu> <63579@cup.portal.com> <1992Aug7.205123.5412@random.ccs.northeastern.edu> Lines: 3 Dear RA: If all goes well I hope to start a new collection about the city. John Winston. Organization: Masters student, Philosophy, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!cis.ohio-state.edu!news.sei.cmu.edu!fs7.ece.cmu.edu!crabapple.srv.cs.cmu.edu!andrew.cmu.edu!sr3j+ Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Message-ID: Date: Fri, 7 Aug 1992 21:30:27 -0400 From: Soren Renner Subject: Re: We have met the enemy and they are us. In-Reply-To: Lines: 4 POGO! Aliens that look just like Pogo! And, of course, Howland Owl, Churchy LaFemme, Albert Alligator, Porky, Madam Hepzibah, Grundoon . . . IT ALL MAKES SENSE! Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!wupost!sdd.hp.com!caen!destroyer!ubc-cs!mprgate.mpr.ca!mprgate.mpr.ca!spani From: spani@mprgate.mpr.ca (Leonard Spani) Subject: Re: We have met the enemy and they are us. Message-ID: <1992Aug8.015801.21824@mprgate.mpr.ca> Followup-To: alt.alien.visitors Sender: news@mprgate.mpr.ca Organization: MPR Teltech Ltd., Burnaby, B.C., Canada References: <1992Aug4.192810.9808@acd4.acd.com> <1992Aug7.145023.25274@acd4.acd.com> Date: Sat, 8 Aug 92 01:58:01 GMT Lines: 48 In article , nelson_p@apollo.hp.com (Peter Nelson) writes: [...] |> I think abductions are an interesting phenomenon, but I have |> never seen any reason to think that they are not merely an |> interesting *psychological* phenomenon, and nothing more. |> But, as always, I am willing to be convinced otherwise. [...] Just one comment on this snippet I took out of context :^) There are reports that some abduction victims show signs of Post Traumatic Stress Disorder. PTSD as it is currently understood is supposed to only occur in people who have been the victim of an objective (i.e. not psychological), external, stressful event (like rape.) This would tend to indicate that the abduction event had at least some reality. It could also indicate that something is wrong with the way they understand PTSD or that the abduction phenomenon is a new type of psychological condition that effects people in a manner usually reserved for externally induced traumas. Another possible indicator of abductions not being entirely psychological is that when abductees have been examined by psychologists and given tests, they have been found (on average) to be normal people not suffering from any standard psychological problems that might cause their experience. Again, this could just as easily indicate that abductions are a new kind of psychological phenomenon not yet identified. Take this all with a grain of salt because I don't have any of my reference books with me. If anyone has any more information on these subjects, could they please post it? |> ---peter Leonard. -- *********************************************************************** | Leonard E. Spani | //!?\\ | (disclaimer-p) | | spani@mprgate.mpr.ca | \\?!// | t | *****************-<( "everybody thinks I'm paranoid" )>-*************** Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Ley Lines Message-ID: <63618@cup.portal.com> Date: Fri, 7 Aug 92 19:09:15 PDT Organization: The Portal System (TM) References: <1992Aug5.174301.2719@random.ccs.northeastern.edu> <63466@cup.portal.com> <+xxm-8-@lynx.unm.edu> <63579@cup.portal.com> <1992Aug7.181726.6106@pony.Ingres.COM> Lines: 10 Dear Lay Line Fisherman and women. I don't know who is responsible for taking off the collections on this net but I believe it would be best to take this one off because most of what can be said has been said. If it stays on that will be OK also. I put the same statement on the other Collection (July 4th etc.) So we shall see what we shall see. I didn't spell a cetain place in my last posting right. It should have been Olaytantambo. If all goes well I will be putting on one or more new collections and Thad thanks for your sound thinking in one of your last postings. John Winston. Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!usc!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!destroyer!ubc-cs!mprgate.mpr.ca!mprgate.mpr.ca!spani From: spani@mprgate.mpr.ca (Leonard Spani) Subject: Re: Ride on John's Back, Please! (Was: Re: Get Off John's Ba Message-ID: <1992Aug8.023601.22136@mprgate.mpr.ca> Followup-To: alt.alien.visitors Sender: news@mprgate.mpr.ca Organization: MPR Teltech Ltd., Burnaby, B.C., Canada References: <14070@mindlink.bc.ca> <63578@cup.portal.com> <63615@cup.portal.com> Date: Sat, 8 Aug 92 02:36:01 GMT Lines: 38 In article <63615@cup.portal.com>, John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes: |> Dear Friends and Countryman and women: I don't know who is the person |> who determines when a collection is taken off but I would like to suggest |> that this collection (July the 4th etc>) be taken off. I will add one or more |> new ones, in the near future. If it is not taken off |> then that will be fine also. |> John Winston. Congradulations John! This post is the only one where I have had absolutly no damn idea what you could possibly be talking about. Could it be because I'm not one of your countrymen? I wonder if the *thousands* of people from all over the *world* who read this newsgroup have any idea either? I wonder if all of the people who have to *pay* for their access to the net will appreciate its (highly probable) significance to their interest in UFOs? I bet that *everyone* would like to personally thank you by sending you email, perhaps we could *all* help you with your spelling at the same time by including a copy of an on-line dictionary or encyclopedia? (I better put a smiley here quick! ;^) Seriously John, Could you please *try* to be more considerate to the rest of us sometimes? Leonard. -- *********************************************************************** | Leonard E. Spani | //!?\\ | (disclaimer-p) | | spani@mprgate.mpr.ca | \\?!// | t | *****************-<( "everybody thinks I'm paranoid" )>-*************** Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!cs.utexas.edu!usc!rpi!uwm.edu!zazen!doug.cae.wisc.edu!umn.edu!mmm.serc.3m.com!web!timbuk.cray.com!walter.cray.com!radner From: radner@cray.com (Lauren Radner) Subject: Re: John_-_Winston Poll Message-ID: <1992Aug7.222636.1276@walter.cray.com> Organization: Cray Research, Inc. Date: 7 Aug 92 22:26:36 CDT Lines: 5 ....please, isn't there any tally of the results of this poll, yet? -Lauren Xref: icaen alt.alien.visitors:8107 alt.activism:30736 alt.politics.clinton:3315 talk.politics.drugs:10347 Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.activism,alt.politics.bush.talk.politics.guns,alt.politics.clinton,talk.politics.drugs Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!think.com!unixland!eclipse From: eclipse@unixland.natick.ma.us (Mark Urbin) Subject: Gee, Outlawing drugs did so well, let's outlaw guns too! Message-ID: <1992Aug8.034542.14974@unixland.natick.ma.us> Organization: Unixland Public Access Unix & Think_Tank BBS References: <1992Aug2.162931.26755@mcshub.dcss.mcmaster.ca> <1992Aug4.124014.15095@lmpsbbs.comm.mot.com> <1992Aug5.092544.25579@etek.chalmers.se> Date: Sat, 8 Aug 1992 03:45:42 GMT Lines: 41 In article <1992Aug5.092544.25579@etek.chalmers.se> lindq@etek.chalmers.se (Johan Lindqvist) writes: >markr@mot.com (Mark) writes: >|> >>First of all, The question was why shouldn't LAW-ABIDING people own weapons. >|> >>Law-Abiding people don't murder people. (by definition) >|> As a matter of fact, my point is, Why should law-abiding people not be >|> allowed to own weapons ? >|> Mark > >Because if (all) people own weapons, they become more widespread, also >among criminals. And are peple born criminals? No. They become criminals >by oppurtunity. And one important thing when committing a crime like >robbery, murder or rape is to be able to threat and harm the victim, which >is easily done with a gun. Conclution: >If guns are not so wide spread, criminals would have a hard time getting >them, and violent crimes would, hopefully, be reduced. The plant that cocaine is made from doesn't grow in the contential U.S.. Criminals seem to have no problems obtaining it. They run a cash business, make that a lot of cash. To protect their investments, they use guns. What's the root cause to gun violence in the U.S., guns or drugs? Americans have been armed since day one. Gun violence wasn't much of a problem till the illegal drug trade became a booming business. As to your conclusion that wide spread gun ownership leads to crime. I don't buy it. I grew up in suburban New York State (NOT THE PEOPLES REPUBLIC OF NEW YORK CITY!!!!). Nearly every house on the street had firearms in them. Most of the men and several of the women belonged to the local pistol club and there were several hunters who had rifles and shotguns. In over 20 years, there has not been a single firearm death or injury on that street. Not one acidental shooting, no police cleaning up after a firearm crime. Kinda bucks the '42-1' odds tossed out by HCI and the likes. > >______________________________________________________________________________ >Johan Lindqvist |Due to lack of interest, tomorrow >Gothenburg Mail: |has been cancelled. >Sweden lindq@etek.chalmers.se | >______________________________________________________________________________ -- eclipse@unixland.natick.ma.us a.k.a. Mark Urbin These Opinions are mine. "There are going to be situations where people are going to go without assistance. That's just the facts of life." ex-LA Chief of Police, Gates. Xref: icaen alt.sex:73306 talk.politics.guns:37669 alt.good.news:1333 alt.postmodern:3756 alt.party:700 alt.alien.visitors:8108 Newsgroups: alt.sex,talk.politics.guns,alt.good.news,alt.postmodern,alt.party,alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!world!kibo From: kibo@world.std.com (James "Kibo" Parry) Subject: Re: The last word! Message-ID: Organization: Between a rock and a type specimen sheet, Boston. References: <1992Aug8.052946.14301@mintaka.lcs.mit.edu> Date: Sat, 8 Aug 1992 05:56:55 GMT Lines: 9 In article <1992Aug8.052946.14301@mintaka.lcs.mit.edu> jrsmith@hal.gnu.ai.mit.edu (J. R. Smith III) writes: >Dave I agree about confiscating all the guns being okay!!! This should put >this matter to rest as any idiot can see it's right!! > > -- the Hefty Dude! Duuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuude, you're waaaaaaaaaaaay cool. Now please go play in traffic. K., who is not hefty, and not a dude Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!Jeffrey_-_Papineau From: Jeffrey_-_Papineau@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Dulce Info Request Message-ID: <63628@cup.portal.com> Date: Sat, 8 Aug 92 00:30:56 PDT Organization: The Portal System (TM) Distribution: world References: <1992Aug7.152458.14453@usenet.ins.cwru.edu> Lines: 10 I thought it was interesting that Matrix II sez that Dulce is not under the Mesa, and that is why nobody can find.it. Almost as though, once the news came out that it is around Dulce some where, it's actuall location was hidden by disinformation. I'm not going to say where it is supposed to be. Good incentive for you all to get the book and start doing some real good reading. I want to talk to those whom have read it! I am about 1/8th of the way through now... Got to go read! Jeff- Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!cis.ohio-state.edu!ucbvax!agate!rsoft!mindlink!a3810 From: Jeremy_Reimer@mindlink.bc.ca (Jeremy Reimer) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Ride on John's Back, Please! (Was: Re: Get Off John's Ba Message-ID: <14100@mindlink.bc.ca> Date: 8 Aug 92 07:36:34 GMT Organization: MIND LINK! - British Columbia, Canada Lines: 28 > John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes: > > Msg-ID: <63578@cup.portal.com> > Posted: Fri, 7 Aug 92 06:21:51 P > > Org. : The Portal System (TM) > > Dear Thinkers: In the past a person who went with me to the desert > where space people are sometimes seen came back with a red mark on his > neck that looked a little like a pimple. The next night he dreamed of the > previous night when he and I were sleeping in a an old shack. He saw in > his dream some space people coming in and putting or doing something to > him that caused the mark to appear. We checked with a friend who understood > these sort of things and he informed us that the space people sometimes > do that so they can communicate with the person in the future, and the > red mark will go away in the next one and one half to two weeks. It did > and they did. > John Winston. Of course, it could have been just a pimple.... (NAAAH! TOO OBVIOUS!) -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Just when you thought| ==> Jeremy_Reimer@mindlink.bc.ca <== it was safe... | That's SUNNY Vancouver, British Columbia, *CANADA*!! ---------------------+------------------------------------------------------ He's BACK! The Car, | George: Blackadder! What time is it!? The Cat, The Lunatic,| Edmund: Thre Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cis.ohio-state.edu!ucbvax!agate!ames!data.nas.nasa.gov!mustang.mst6.lanl.gov!nntp-server.caltech.edu!keith From: keith@cco.caltech.edu (Keith Allan Schneider) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Crop Circles? Message-ID: <1992Aug8.065811.3941@cco.caltech.edu> Date: 8 Aug 92 06:58:11 GMT References: <1992Aug5.115146.14670@unislc.uucp> <1992Aug7.181652.26139@acd4.acd.com> Sender: news@cco.caltech.edu Organization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena Lines: 25 Nntp-Posting-Host: jomby gvb@TEFS1.acd.com (Gregg Brown) writes: >In article nateh@quake.sylmar.ca.us (Nate Hawthorn) writes: >[Media sensational views deleted] >>I'm sure there's lots going on, too bad we don't have a "circles.data" on >>here somewhere that posts GIF files and long/lat of these circles (and any >>other data on the circle)... >> >>Too bad, these are what Mr. Homes would love, CLUES left behind from >>gravity drive! >> >>Nate.. >Gravity Drive???!!! I need some real details on this. Now wait a minute. Didn't some guys admit to doing all of those crop circles? It was a group of older guys. They took a 2x4 with some ropes and smashed the crops with their foot on the board... Of course, I assume that all of the skeptical people in alt.alien didn't believe them. keith Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!cs.utexas.edu!natinst.com!news.dell.com!swrinde!sdd.hp.com!ux1.cso.uiuc.edu!news.cso.uiuc.edu!uxc.cso.uiuc.edu!ken From: ken@uxc.cso.uiuc.edu (Ken Primer) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Unidentified Flying Objects Message-ID: Date: 6 Aug 92 04:28:11 GMT Sender: usenet@news.cso.uiuc.edu (Net Noise owner) Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana Lines: 16 Ok I'm new to this group so maybe this has been brought up before. Do people realize that UFO stands for unidentified flying object? This being an object, which is flying, which noone can identify. Why are so many people convinced that these are the craft of alien beings? Yes, as you can guess, I'm a skeptic. But since my knowledge is not enough to even begin to explain some of these sightings, I call them UFO's. Why can't UFO "experts" accept this? -- RUMORS OF MY DEMISE ARE IN FACT... ARE NOT EXAGGERATED! I AM IN FACT DEAD. ken@uxc.cso.uiuc.edu <> Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!cis.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!cleveland.Freenet.Edu!an683 From: an683@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Dean C. Gelston) Subject: THE CLINTONS ARE COMING,THE CLINTONS ARE COMING Message-ID: <1992Aug8.095901.1812@usenet.ins.cwru.edu> Sender: news@usenet.ins.cwru.edu Nntp-Posting-Host: cwns1.ins.cwru.edu Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio, (USA) Date: Sat, 8 Aug 92 09:59:01 GMT Lines: 10 THE CLINTONS ARE COMING, THE CLINTONS ARE COMING, THE CLINTONS ARE COMING THE CLINTONS ARE COMING, THE CLINTONS ARE COMING, THE CLINTONS ARE COMING After all that is said and done if you give absolute power to the democratic party whom already controls congress,you may find yourself saying " Give me liberty or give me death ",Patric Henny, It's clear that the Democratic Party intends to be power monsters and only one super human person can save the world from dictatorship in a free land. vote REPUBLICAN! Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!dtix!darwin.sura.net!wupost!uwm.edu!linac!att!rutgers!andromeda.rutgers.edu!mccabe From: mccabe@andromeda.rutgers.edu (Chris Mccabe) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Aliens are partly to blame Message-ID: Date: 8 Aug 92 07:08:34 GMT References: <63577@cup.portal.com> Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J. Lines: 27 thad@cup.portal.com (Thad P Floryan) writes: >In article >mccabe@andromeda.rutgers.edu (Chris Mccabe) writes: >| I just want to say that I am sick and tired of hearing >| about the government coverups involving UFO's. The >| bottom line is this: If there are alien visitors, on >| Earth, then they probably have the power to make direct >| and open contact with the general public, regardless of >| what our comparitively weak minded governments want. So, >| [...] >Given our experiences with the "cargo cults" circa WW II ("advanced" society >casually contacting a "primitive" society), I would expect any ET visitors to >have an ethic like the "Prime Directive" popularized by "Star Trek" in which >NON-interference is paramount (unless there is some nefarious scheme afoot). >Thad Floryan [ thad@cup.portal.com ] Yet, if you believe many of the stories surrounding the UFO phenomenon, then you can see that any aliens, on Earth, have not exercised a "Prime Directive" type philosophy. I mean, abductions, secret underground bases, cattle mutilations, crop circles - these are NON-interference?? Granted, it's not total interference, but these acts (assuming some of them are true) do interfere with the lives of people and animals. Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!cis.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!agate!rsoft!mindlink!a499 From: Robert_Salesas@mindlink.bc.ca (Robert Salesas) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Crop Circles? Message-ID: <14104@mindlink.bc.ca> Date: 8 Aug 92 12:21:23 GMT Organization: MIND LINK! - British Columbia, Canada Distribution: world Lines: 25 > Keith Allan Schneider writes: > > Now wait a minute. Didn't some guys admit to doing all of those crop > circles? > It was a group of older guys. They took a 2x4 with some ropes and smashed > the > crops with their foot on the board... > > Of course, I assume that all of the skeptical people in alt.alien didn't > believe them. > > keith Of course. I imagine you believe these couple of "older guys" fly around the world at the speed of light making fake crop circles in fast forward? Rob -- \------------------------------------------------------------------------/ \ Robert Salesas | Internet: Robert_Salesas@mindlink.bc.ca / \ Eschalon Development Inc. | CIS: 76625,1320 Tel/Fax: 604-520-1543 / \------------------------------------------------------------------------/ Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!psinntp!dg-rtp!aquila!harrism From: harrism@aquila.rtp.dg.com (Mike Harris) Subject: Re: Ley Lines Sender: usenet@dg-rtp.dg.com (Usenet Administration) Message-ID: <1992Aug7.155737.5202@dg-rtp.dg.com> Date: Fri, 7 Aug 92 15:57:37 GMT Reply-To: harrism@dg-rtp.dg.com References: <1992Aug5.174301.2719@random.ccs.northeastern.edu> <63466@cup.portal.com> <+xxm-8-@lynx.unm.edu> Organization: Data General Corp., Research Triangle Park, NC Lines: 47 In article <+xxm-8-@lynx.unm.edu>, cary@carina.unm.edu (Ithlial the Archer) writes: |> In article <63466@cup.portal.com> John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes: |> >Dear Ley People: Here's some more information from Shaari about Ley Lines |> >and the Nasca Lines.----So what is happening is that grids with their |> >{light} were brought from another dimension, from another universe, through |> >a black hole, was was waiting in position around the earth's orbit, and |> |> Hold just a sec. There are some pretty serious problems with putting |> decent sized black hole in earth orbit. |> |> According to a previous post of John's, it took 144x144x144 of these |> grids to cover the earth if I understand what you said. If I didn't it may |> be 144x144x144x144 of them. In the first case the grids are more than |> 10 km across, in the second they are about 1 km across. These dimensions |> correspond to a black hole of 100,000 or 1,000,000 times the mass of the |> earth. As long as these objects are farther than a few million miles |> from the earth they won't tear it apart straight away. Rather the the |> heating of the earth from the tides that such a massive object would |> cause in the crust would probably melt it. (A good example of this |> is Saturns moon, Enceladus, made mostly of water/water ice. Its interior |> is kept liquid via the tidal heating from its interaction with Saturn.) |> It was such a nice planet before it melted, darn. |> |> Another glaring problem is the fact that these masses are comparable |> to, or larger than the mass of the sun. In other words the orbits of |> every object in the solar system is going to get shot to hell. Good |> bye habitable planet. |> |> The last major problem is that black holes this small have very high |> field gradients. In other words parts of an object closer to the center |> experience a significantly higher gravitaional force than those farther |> away. This phenomenon occurs on scales much smaller than the size of |> the black hole. Thus objects that get too close (especially inside |> the event horizon) get pulled apart. |> |> I'd feel alot safer if these ETI's would keep their black holes away |> from us! The aliens have thought about this. Remember that they are interested in observing us, and not in destroying us. Hence they've been using their gravity control technology to shield us from the powerful effects of the black hole(s). It uses some sort of dimension control which is very advanced. The most fascinating part is how they use the black hole itself to provide the control power required. This, of course, requires an external connection or port and is most likely what the astronauts indirectly observed. Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:11116 alt.alien.visitors:8117 sci.skeptic:28548 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!olivea!apple!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day Message-ID: <63649@cup.portal.com> Date: 8 Aug 92 13:26:50 GMT References: <1992Jun5.011013.1412@beaver.cs.washington.edu> Organization: The Portal System (TM) Lines: 4 Dear Earthlings: I just got some more results from the last Astral Convoy. It had something to do with being on a spaceship. I'll try to post it in total later. John Winston Xref: icaen alt.sex:73317 talk.politics.guns:37684 alt.alien.visitors:8118 alt.postmodern:3757 alt.good.news:1334 Newsgroups: alt.sex,talk.politics.guns,alt.alien.visitors,alt.postmodern,alt.good.news,alt.p Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!wupost!news.miami.edu!cybernet!waldo From: waldo.bbs@cybernet.cse.fau.edu Subject: Re: The last word! Message-ID: <0VV7oB1w164w@cybernet.cse.fau.edu> Sender: bbs@cybernet.cse.fau.edu (BBS) Organization: Florida Atlantic University, Boca Raton References: <1992Aug8.052946.14301@mintaka.lcs.mit.edu> Date: Sat, 8 Aug 1992 13:12:56 GMT Lines: 10 jrsmith@hal.gnu.ai.mit.edu (J. R. Smith III) writes: > Dave I agree about confiscating all the guns being okay!!! This should put > this matter to rest as any idiot can see it's right!! > > -- the Hefty Dude! Case in point. Waldo Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Ley Lines Message-ID: <63650@cup.portal.com> Date: Sat, 8 Aug 92 06:30:37 PDT Organization: The Portal System (TM) Distribution: world References: <61006@cup.portal.com> <61047@cup.portal.com> Lines: 4 Dear Ley Liners: It's saturday and I hope all is well with you. Maybe this collection will be gone by tuesday. It has been my pleasure to talk with you. John Winston. Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!pipex!demon!cix.compulink.co.uk!bernieb Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors From: bernieb@cix.compulink.co.uk (Steve Browne) Subject: Re: John_-_Winston Poll Cc: bernieb@cix.compulink.co.uk Reply-To: bernieb@cix.compulink.co.uk Date: Sat, 8 Aug 1992 13:58:00 +0000 Message-ID: Sender: usenet@gate.demon.co.uk Lines: 17 erc@unislc.uucp (Ed Carp) writes: >So? Talk to your feed site. I'm sure it would be no trouble at all to put >"!alt.alien.visitors" in /usr/lib/news/sys for your site... Well... it's not a real feed. If it was, I could set up a kill list and things like that. It's only a read-only usenet site, that I can read offline and post through a mail gateway. Remember that here in the UK up until recently all news has had to be paid for :( as there was only one (or two) sites with lines between the US and the UK. That is starting to change (thankfully :) ) with commercial Internet services offering full access for very good prices. ----------------------------- bernieb@cix.compulink.co.uk sbrowne@mcimail.com Steve Browne @ Notes Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!pipex!demon!cix.compulink.co.uk!bernieb Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors From: bernieb@cix.compulink.co.uk (Steve Browne) Subject: Gun Control crap Cc: bernieb@cix.compulink.co.uk Reply-To: bernieb@cix.compulink.co.uk Date: Sat, 8 Aug 1992 13:58:00 +0000 Message-ID: Sender: usenet@gate.demon.co.uk Lines: 12 paul2@dcs.exeter.ac.uk (Paul Day) writes: > I ENJOYED reading `October Suprise', even though I had to log into nyx to > > do it because Don Allen made that posting US only. Huh ? My news comes through Cix, which gets it through UKC. We got it ok. I thought all *.ac.uk got the news through UKC. ----------------------------- bernieb@cix.compulink.co.uk sbrowne@mcimail.com Steve Browne @ Notes Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!think.com!sdd.hp.com!ux1.cso.uiuc.edu!news.cso.uiuc.edu!uxc.cso.uiuc.edu!ken From: ken@uxc.cso.uiuc.edu (Ken Primer) Subject: what does _-_ mean? Message-ID: Sender: usenet@news.cso.uiuc.edu (Net Noise owner) Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana Date: Sat, 8 Aug 1992 03:01:44 GMT Lines: 8 I've noticed several people in this group have a _-_ in their name. What does this mean? -- RUMORS OF MY DEMISE ARE IN FACT... ARE NOT EXAGGERATED! I AM IN FACT DEAD. ken@uxc.cso.uiuc.edu <> Xref: icaen alt.sex:73324 talk.politics.guns:37688 alt.alien.visitors:8123 alt.postmodern:3758 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!gatech!pitt.edu!dcwst8 From: dcwst8+@pitt.edu (David C Winters) Newsgroups: alt.sex,talk.politics.guns,alt.alien.visitors,alt.postmodern Subject: Re: The last word! Message-ID: <4475@blue.cis.pitt.edu.UUCP> Date: 8 Aug 92 16:50:16 GMT References: <1992Aug8.052946.14301@mintaka.lcs.mit.edu> <0VV7oB1w164w@cybernet.cse.fau.edu> Sender: news+@pitt.edu Followup-To: alt.sex Organization: University of Pittsburgh Lines: 21 In article <0VV7oB1w164w@cybernet.cse.fau.edu> waldo.bbs@cybernet.cse.fau.edu writes: >jrsmith@hal.gnu.ai.mit.edu (J. R. Smith III) writes: >> Dave I agree about confiscating all the guns being okay!!! This should put >> this matter to rest as any idiot can see it's right!! >> >> -- the Hefty Dude! > >Case in point. > >Waldo I think that Mr. 'Dude' could use a Reality Check.(tm) (I just hope that he doesn't think that I'm the 'Dave' he's agreeing with in respect to gun control...) -- David Winters dcwst8@unix.cis.pitt.edu *OR* winters@vms.cis.pitt.edu Illigitimi non carborundum Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!dtix!darwin.sura.net!uvaarpa!murdoch!Turing.ORG!lfoard From: lfoard@Turing.ORG (Lawrence C. Foard) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Disinformation Agents at Work? Keywords: UFO disinformation Message-ID: <1992Aug8.171940.9246@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU> Date: 8 Aug 92 17:19:40 GMT References: <1tymt#-.vere@netcom.com> Sender: usenet@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU Organization: NSA UFO Coverup squad Lines: 24 File-Number: 34874843jk3auf7qwkm329 Agent-Number: 37621 Termination-Date: 10/07/92 In article <1tymt#-.vere@netcom.com> vere@netcom.com (Steven Vere) writes: > For the sake of argument, let's assume the US government has an >active program of coverup and disinformation for UFO material. As >part of its charter, the responsible organization would of course >monitor UFO related publications and groups. In particular, they >would probably be monitoring alt.alien.visitors. The principle of >disinformation and active measures would call for government agents, >posing as private citizens, to post skeptical replies and attacks on >legitimate reports of UFO experiences, to try to shut them up, >neutralize them, and discourage others from publicly reporting >their experiences. > So, the next time you some incredibly closed-minded individual >spouting off on this newsgroup, give the guy a break. He may just be >some poor, underpaid government employee trying to do his job. Looks like your onto us, guess we will have to terminate you. Please report to the nearest NSA office on August 10th, otherwise we will have to send out a UFO to get you... -- >>Unix/C Contract worker available 5 years C/unix work experience<< ______ Available for Telecommuting/Travel and contracts on the T Line \ / in the Boston MA area. Send me e-mail for a copy of my Resume. \ / -- VWIS 508-793-9568 (2400 baud), Linux support BBS.-- \/ Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!cis.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!agate!rsoft!mindlink!a80 From: Greg_Goss@mindlink.bc.ca (Greg Goss) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Crop Circles? Message-ID: <14113@mindlink.bc.ca> Date: 8 Aug 92 19:21:34 GMT Organization: MIND LINK! - British Columbia, Canada Distribution: world Lines: 9 Nothing kills a controversy faster than humour. Everyone in North America (TV ads) knows that crop circles are made by enormour peanut butter/chocolate snack morsels. .../greg -- "say NO to four-line sigs" greg_goss@mindlink.bc.ca Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!wupost!sdd.hp.com!nigel.msen.com!yale.edu!jvnc.net!netnews.upenn.edu!grip.cis.upenn.edu!jmv From: jmv@grip.cis.upenn.edu (Jean-Marc Vezien) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: what does _-_ mean? Message-ID: <85658@netnews.upenn.edu> Date: 8 Aug 92 20:02:01 GMT References: Sender: news@netnews.upenn.edu Organization: GRASP Lab Lines: 19 Nntp-Posting-Host: grip.cis.upenn.edu In article , ken@uxc.cso.uiuc.edu (Ken Primer) writes: > > I've noticed several people in this group have a _-_ in their name. > What does this mean? > Yup, you're right, there are 7 people who do that. They are called the seven buddies of John_-_Winston (TM). John, are you really here now ? Or still a little fuzzy after this wild mushroom party ?? JM "Believing I had supernatural powers I slammed into a break wall" Paul Simon. Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!paladin.american.edu!darwin.sura.net!wupost!csus.edu!netcom.com!vere From: vere@netcom.com (Steven Vere) Subject: Re: Disinformation Agents at Work? Message-ID: Date: Sat, 08 Aug 92 21:31:11 GMT Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest) References: <1tymt#-.vere@netcom.com> <1992Aug7.182216.6460@pony.Ingres.COM> Keywords: UFO disinformation Lines: 33 In article <1992Aug7.182216.6460@pony.Ingres.COM> kevinq@Ingres.COM (Kevin Quinn) writes: >In article <1tymt#-.vere@netcom.com> vere@netcom.com (Steven Vere) writes: >> >> For the sake of argument, let's assume the US government has an >>active program of coverup and disinformation for UFO material. As >>part of its charter, the responsible organization would of course >>monitor UFO related publications and groups. In particular, they >>would probably be monitoring alt.alien.visitors. The principle of >>disinformation and active measures would call for government agents, >>posing as private citizens, to post skeptical replies and attacks on >>legitimate reports of UFO experiences, to try to shut them up, >>neutralize them, and discourage others from publicly reporting >>their experiences. >[stuff deleted] >> Steven Vere 70571.521@compuserve.com > >Steve: Sorry to have to tell you this, old pal, but the penalty for breaking >our cover is immediate processing into fast food for the greys. You are >hereby directed to jump into the giant underground grey food processor, >whose location you of course know. > >If you'd only kept your mouth shut... Your reply is consistent with my hypothesis that disinformation agents are polluting the information stream in alt.alien.visitors. -- ___________________________________________________________________________ Steven Vere 70571.521@compuserve.com Boulder Creek, California vere@netcom.com ___________________________________________________________________________ Xref: icaen alt.alien.visitors:8128 talk.religion.newage:11122 sci.skeptic:28554 Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,talk.religion.newage,sci.skeptic Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!das.wang.com!wang!news From: warren@nysernet.org (Warren Burstein) Subject: Re: Hatton: CIA or ET Reply-To: warren@nysernet.org Organization: Mail to News Gateway at Wang Labs Date: 7 Aug 92 13:28:55 GMT Message-ID: <2404@israel.nysernet.org> Followup-To: alt.alien.visitors References: <63423@cup.portal.com> <2398@israel.nysernet.org> <63514@cup.portal.com> Sender: news@wang.com Lines: 14 In <63514@cup.portal.com> Jeffrey_-_Papineau@cup.portal.com writes: >Well, very good question, and no truely good answer I' >m afraid. It will basically come down to your intuitive >powers after a time of exposing yourself to the real thing. But what if one has the misfortune to go to a Brand X channeler first. The intuitive powers might get waxy build-up all over them and the victim will never get to appear on the commericals for New Improved Age? -- /|/-\/-\ I'll leave you with this saying: |__/__/_/ I guess it was all a DREAM.. or an episode of HAWAII |warren@ FIVE-O... / nysernet.org Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!wupost!csus.edu!netcom.com!vere From: vere@netcom.com (Steven Vere) Subject: Re: Disinformation Agents at Work? Message-ID: Date: Sat, 08 Aug 92 22:04:57 GMT Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest) References: <1tymt#-.vere@netcom.com> <1992Aug8.171940.9246@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU> Keywords: UFO disinformation Lines: 34 In article <1992Aug8.171940.9246@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU> lfoard@Turing.ORG (Lawrence C. Foard) writes: >In article <1tymt#-.vere@netcom.com> vere@netcom.com (Steven Vere) writes: >> For the sake of argument, let's assume the US government has an >>active program of coverup and disinformation for UFO material. As >>part of its charter, the responsible organization would of course >>monitor UFO related publications and groups. In particular, they >>would probably be monitoring alt.alien.visitors. The principle of >>disinformation and active measures would call for government agents, >>posing as private citizens, to post skeptical replies and attacks on >>legitimate reports of UFO experiences, to try to shut them up, >>neutralize them, and discourage others from publicly reporting >>their experiences. >> So, the next time you [see] some incredibly closed-minded individual >>spouting off on this newsgroup, give the guy a break. He may just be >>some poor, underpaid government employee trying to do his job. > >Looks like your onto us, guess we will have to terminate you. Please report >to the nearest NSA office on August 10th, otherwise we will have to send out >a UFO to get you... Example 2 of a reply supporting my disinformation hypothesis. Impartial readers will note the similarity in tone and content of this reply by Lawrence Foard with the earlier reply by Kevin Quinn to my original post. I also agree with Leonard Spani that another component of a disinformation campaign would be an attempt to inject looney elements into this newsgroup (e.g., our familiar contributor from Portal), so as to taint the UFO topic and turn off serious readers. -- ___________________________________________________________________________ Steven Vere 70571.521@compuserve.com Boulder Creek, California vere@netcom.com ___________________________________________________________________________ Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!wupost!csus.edu!netcom.com!rkrouse From: rkrouse@netcom.com (Robert K. Rouse) Subject: Looking for UMMO UFO CONTACT book Message-ID: Date: Sat, 08 Aug 92 22:48:11 GMT Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest) Keywords: ufo,aliens,rare books Lines: 19 I'm looking for the book; UFO CONTACT FROM PLANET UMMO, Volume I, by Antonio Ribera. For those that don't know it is one of the amazing series of UFO contact books from: UFO PHOTO ARCHIVES, P.O. Box 17206, Tucson, AZ 85710 I recommend them to all UFO buffs. These books will never be for sale in your book store chain. rkrouse@netcom.com -- ========================================================================== Robert K. Rouse rkrouse@netcom.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------- "A logical mind is a terrible thing to waste." -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Xref: icaen alt.alien.visitors:8132 sci.skeptic:28561 alt.paranormal:5586 Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic,alt.paranormal Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!wupost!darwin.sura.net!mojo.eng.umd.edu!georgec From: georgec@eng.umd.edu (George B. Clark) Subject: Re: Public Opinion Poll. Message-ID: <1992Aug09.012906.15149@eng.umd.edu> Date: Sun, 09 Aug 92 01:29:06 GMT Organization: University of Maryland References: <1992Aug7.161433.25597@acd4.acd.com> <1992Aug7.205502.18395@m.cs.uiuc.edu> Lines: 11 In article <1992Aug7.205502.18395@m.cs.uiuc.edu> mcgrath@cs.uiuc.edu writes: > >I never answer surveys unless I am fully informed as to who is collecting >it and why. > Given that some people are nervous about being polled, we are already gauranteed the outcome won't reflect public opinion because the poll won't contain a random sample of people. Xref: icaen alt.alien.visitors:8133 sci.skeptic:28562 alt.paranormal:5587 Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic,alt.paranormal Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!gburton From: gburton@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Garland O Burton) Subject: physical evidence Message-ID: <1992Aug9.015509.12070@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> Sender: news@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu Nntp-Posting-Host: bottom.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu Organization: The Ohio State University Date: Sun, 9 Aug 1992 01:55:09 GMT Lines: 10 there are folks whom i tell of the abduction/eti/ufo phenom... they say "show us the physical evidence." can anyone suggest any? gb -- gburton@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu.............copyright 1992 gary burton........ Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!cs.utexas.edu!usc!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!usenet.ucs.indiana.edu!indyvax.iupui.edu!tffreeba From: tffreeba@indyvax.iupui.edu Subject: Re: what does _-_ mean? Message-ID: <1992Aug8.223834.1@indyvax.iupui.edu> Lines: 7 Sender: news@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu (USENET News System) Nntp-Posting-Host: indyvax.iupui.edu Organization: Indiana University References: <85658@netnews.upenn.edu> Date: Sun, 9 Aug 1992 03:38:34 GMT In article <85658@netnews.upenn.edu>, jmv@grip.cis.upenn.edu (Jean-Marc Vezien) writes: > In article , ken@uxc.cso.uiuc.edu (Ken Primer) writes: >> >> I've noticed several people in this group have a _-_ in their name. >> What does this mean? It means, put me in a kill file before I multiply. Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!sdd.hp.com!wupost!uwm.edu!linac!tellab5!jcj From: jcj@tellabs.com (JCJ) Subject: Re: Shared databases, instrumentation, plausibility, etc. Message-ID: <1992Aug8.183013.15447@tellab5.tellabs.com> Sender: news@tellab5.tellabs.com (News) Nntp-Posting-Host: tellab3 Organization: Huh? References: <63575@cup.portal.com> Date: Sat, 8 Aug 1992 18:30:13 GMT Lines: 48 Thad P Floryan writes: >Just some thoughts to re-focus this group along the lines of its charter. >... You actually want to talk about this stuff in a rational way and trash the Grand Boombah from Planet Imelda tells me what size shoes to buy type discussions? Shocking! 8-) (Although I do admire Showen's scam to get people to pay to hyperventilate in his hot tub - note I said "people" not "space(y) chicks" so Ellen(?) can't call me a sexist, but I digress...) >... >If you could "instrument" a UFO sighting, what types of instruments >would be pertinent and what types of data would you seek? Anyone been >measuring, say, radon levels? Magnetic field and/or gravity >perturbations? I'd suggest geiger counters, magnetometers, gravitometers, high quality video and IR/thermal from multiple cameras and several different angles to hopefully allow triangulation and cover data lost from lens flares, etc. Radon is interesting; are you looking for a connection with seismic activity? I seem to recall an article in "Science News" some years back about increased UFO sightings along fault lines just prior to quakes suggesting a plasma phenomenon of some kind. >... >What would it require to convince you beyond ALL doubt that a(ny) >given UFO sighting at which you were NOT a first-hand observer/ >participant was truly an "unearthly event"? ... That is an excellent question; it prompts one to sort out his beliefs. I personally believe CE Is, CE IIs, crop circles are plasma (people didn't believe in ball lightning a few years ago, remember) and/or meteorological phenomena. I think CE IIIs/abductions are a psychological phenomenon similar to the Our Lady of Fatima (?) sightings. Those kids are 100% certain they were talking to the Virgin Mary. Considering neuroresearch indicating you can trigger a religious experience by electrically stimulating certain regions of the brain, what if the electromagnetic phenomenon that causes a CE I or II is in the proximity of a human? Do we get a CE III? As far as the paranormal (Pleiadian, channeling, etc.) goes, I think humans have an inherent need for religion and since the God and Satan of the Bible aren't believable anymore, why not invent new ones that zoom through space and commune with us in hottubs or slice and dice cow genitals? -- jcj@tellabs.com Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!news.claremont.edu!nntp-server.caltech.edu!keith From: keith@cco.caltech.edu (Keith Allan Schneider) Subject: Re: Crop Circles? Message-ID: <1992Aug9.022331.9288@cco.caltech.edu> Sender: news@cco.caltech.edu Nntp-Posting-Host: jomby Organization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena References: <14104@mindlink.bc.ca> Date: Sun, 9 Aug 1992 02:23:31 GMT Lines: 22 Robert_Salesas@mindlink.bc.ca (Robert Salesas) writes: >> Keith Allan Schneider writes: >> >> Now wait a minute. Didn't some guys admit to doing all of those crop >> circles? >> It was a group of older guys. They took a 2x4 with some ropes and smashed >> the >> crops with their foot on the board... >> >> Of course, I assume that all of the skeptical people in alt.alien didn't >> believe them. >> >> keith >Of course. I imagine you believe these couple of "older guys" fly around the >world at the speed of light making fake crop circles in fast forward? Who said anything about flying around the world? keith Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!usc!wupost!csus.edu!netcom.com!sheaffer From: sheaffer@netcom.com (Robert Sheaffer) Subject: Re: New Zealand sighting. Message-ID: Date: Sun, 09 Aug 92 04:20:40 GMT Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest) References: Lines: 29 In article asm332@cix.compulink.co.uk writes: >Does anyone have information on the UFO sighting by a >TV film crew flying over New Zealand around 1978 ? >I was young at the time and I can't remember much about it >except that they were sent to investigate unidentified >lights that had been appearing for a couple of weeks. >They had just set their equipment up, when one of these >lights appeared ! There's a chapter about this incident in my book, "The UFO Verdict." There were dozens of Japanese squid-fishing boats out on the water, which use extremely bright lights to lure squid up from the ocean depths. The case is quite complex, and a short summary can't do it justice. Of course, the True Believer just KNOW that this explanation couldn't possibly be correct! -- Robert Sheaffer - Scepticus Maximus - sheaffer@netcom.com Past Chairman, The Bay Area Skeptics - for whom I speak only when authorized! "Beware when the great God lets loose a thinker on this planet. Then all things are at risk. It is as when a conflagration has broken out in a great city, and no man knows what is safe, or where it will end." - Emerson: Essay, "Circles" Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!usc!wupost!csus.edu!netcom.com!sheaffer From: sheaffer@netcom.com (Robert Sheaffer) Subject: Re: Disinformation Agents at Work? Message-ID: Date: Sun, 09 Aug 92 05:01:07 GMT Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest) References: <1tymt#-.vere@netcom.com> <1992Aug7.210206.18458@mprgate.mpr.ca> Keywords: UFO disinformation Lines: 36 In article <1992Aug7.210206.18458@mprgate.mpr.ca> spani@mprgate.mpr.ca (Leonard Spani) writes: > >I was thinking of different methods I would use to discredit UFologists >if I was a government: > >The best method I could come up with was disinformation, but not the "secret >area-51 alien base" kind. The best way to prevent UFologists from acquiring >scientific data would be to make sure that no scientist gets anywhere near a >UFO group. They would want to make sure that UFOs were studied by amateurs >without scientific support. The best way to ensure scientists avoid UFOs is to >keep the subject closely associated with the lunatic fringe and religious >cultists. The New Age movement provides the perfect cover for distributing Leonard, You and the other believers have done *far* more than any skeptic could ever hope to accomplish in scaring real scientists away from studying UFOs! You guys fall for the silliest hoax in the world in Gulf Breeze, insist that pieces of ice displaced by the space shuttle's jets are maneuvring alien craft, believe absurd yarns about people being floated Through the Looking Glass and out the window into UFOs, insist that the farfetched and mutually-contradictory stories about "crashed saucers" at Roswell are absolute truth: then you complain about how those nasty skeptics keep scientists from taking UFOs seriously! -- Robert Sheaffer - Scepticus Maximus - sheaffer@netcom.com Past Chairman, The Bay Area Skeptics - for whom I speak only when authorized! "Beware when the great God lets loose a thinker on this planet. Then all things are at risk. It is as when a conflagration has broken out in a great city, and no man knows what is safe, or where it will end." - Emerson: Essay, "Circles" Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!usc!rpi!usenet.coe.montana.edu!news.u.washington.edu!nuntius From: Bob Jacobson Subject: Whitley Strieber Message-ID: <1992Aug9.052434.18684@u.washington.edu> Sender: news@u.washington.edu (USENET News System) Organization: University of Washington X-Useragent: Nuntius v1.1 Date: Sun, 9 Aug 1992 05:24:34 GMT Lines: 3 I heard that Whitley Strieber, author of the books "Communion" and "Transformation", admitted that they were all made up. Can someone confirm this? Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!usc!wupost!csus.edu!netcom.com!sheaffer From: sheaffer@netcom.com (Robert Sheaffer) Subject: Re: Disinformation Agents at Work? Message-ID: Date: Sun, 09 Aug 92 05:10:28 GMT Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest) References: <1tymt#-.vere@netcom.com> <1992Aug8.171940.9246@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU> Keywords: UFO disinformation Lines: 36 In article vere@netcom.com (Steven Vere) writes: > > Example 2 of a reply supporting my disinformation hypothesis. Impartial >readers will note the similarity in tone and content of this reply by >Lawrence Foard with the earlier reply by Kevin Quinn to my original post. > I also agree with Leonard Spani that another component of a disinformation >campaign would be an attempt to inject looney elements into this newsgroup >(e.g., our familiar contributor from Portal), so as to taint the UFO >topic and turn off serious readers. No, if anybody is CIA here, it *must* be me. And since I don't know who these Foard and Quinn guys are, and since I know that I'm not CIA, therefore at least *I* can know that Mr. Vere is hallucinating. Because if the CIA is paying off Foard and Quinn, they sure as hell aren't getting their money's worth from THOSE guys. They'd be much better off paying me instead. Just think of how much more debunking I could do if I did this full-time! (No, of *course* I'm not a full-time debunker. But I DO write very fast!). So the only reasonable conclusion is either that nobody here is CIA, or else that the CIA doesn't mind paying some guys mucho bucks to do 1% of what someone else will do for free, in his spare time. In which case, they are wasting much money, that could be better spent forging JFK documents, or whatever. -- Robert Sheaffer - Scepticus Maximus - sheaffer@netcom.com Past Chairman, The Bay Area Skeptics - for whom I speak only when authorized! "Beware when the great God lets loose a thinker on this planet. Then all things are at risk. It is as when a conflagration has broken out in a great city, and no man knows what is safe, or where it will end." - Emerson: Essay, "Circles" Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!bcstec!kuryakin From: kuryakin@bcstec.ca.boeing.com (Rick Pavek) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Crop Circles? Message-ID: <3246@bcstec.ca.boeing.com> Date: 9 Aug 92 01:55:31 GMT References: <1992Aug7.181652.26139@acd4.acd.com> <1992Aug8.065811.3941@cco.caltech.edu> Organization: Boeing Lines: 35 In article <1992Aug8.065811.3941@cco.caltech.edu> keith@cco.caltech.edu (Keith Allan Schneider) writes: > >Now wait a minute. Didn't some guys admit to doing all of those crop circles? >It was a group of older guys. They took a 2x4 with some ropes and smashed the >crops with their foot on the board... > Keith, investigations into the claims of the 'confessing hoaxters' revealed that they were likely paid to 'confess' by Her Majesties' government. While they may have made some of them, the ones they make are clearly different from the 'other' variety, primarily in their version the stalks are broked by the weight and the boards. In the legitimate versions the stalks were bent at the base and showed evidence of microwave heating. Also, they didn't show any airline ticket stubs for repeated visits to North America or Australia. Further, they didn't give any evidence that showed them actually making a particular circle, they merely demonstrated how they were supposed to have made them and claimed that they had. They also didn't explain how they were able to do this in the dark, in the fog. Also, there have been crop circles since, and not a single word has been heard from the confessors... at least that is what I have gleaned from the net and I'll leave it to others to supply details. Rick -- Rick Pavek | Never ask a droid to outdo its program. kuryakin@bcstec.boeing.com | AppleLink: kuryakin | It wastes your time r.pavek1@GENIE | and annoys the droid. Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!wupost!csus.edu!netcom.com!payner From: payner@netcom.com (Rich Payne) Subject: Re: Crop Circles? Message-ID: <1d1m4ah.payner@netcom.com> Date: Sun, 09 Aug 92 06:34:49 GMT Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest) References: <1992Aug7.181652.26139@acd4.acd.com> <1992Aug8.065811.3941@cco.caltech.edu> <3246@bcstec.ca.boeing.com> Lines: 50 In article <3246@bcstec.ca.boeing.com> kuryakin@bcstec.ca.boeing.com (Rick Pavek) writes: >In article <1992Aug8.065811.3941@cco.caltech.edu> keith@cco.caltech.edu (Keith Allan Schneider) writes: >> >>Now wait a minute. Didn't some guys admit to doing all of those crop circles? >>It was a group of older guys. They took a 2x4 with some ropes and smashed the >>crops with their foot on the board... >> > >Keith, investigations into the claims of the 'confessing hoaxters' >revealed that they were likely paid to 'confess' by Her Majesties' >government. > >While they may have made some of them, the ones they make are clearly >different from the 'other' variety, primarily in their version the >stalks are broked by the weight and the boards. In the legitimate >versions the stalks were bent at the base and showed evidence of >microwave heating. I've always wondered if the stalks will react differently during different stages of growth. As for "microwave heating", this is new to me. But then, many claims have been made which have not panned out in the past. Like radioactive crop circles, ultrapure aluminum fragments, etc... Is there any verification? Like several labs confirming this? >Also, they didn't show any airline ticket stubs for repeated visits to >North America or Australia. > >Further, they didn't give any evidence that showed them actually making >a particular circle, they merely demonstrated how they were supposed >to have made them and claimed that they had. They also didn't explain >how they were able to do this in the dark, in the fog. > >Also, there have been crop circles since, and not a single word has >been heard from the confessors... at least that is what I have gleaned >from the net and I'll leave it to others to supply details. Oddly, reports have been few and subdued. >Rick >-- >Rick Pavek | Never ask a droid to outdo its program. >kuryakin@bcstec.boeing.com | >AppleLink: kuryakin | It wastes your time >r.pavek1@GENIE | and annoys the droid. Rich payner@netcom.com Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!van-bc!rsoft!mindlink!a3810 From: Jeremy_Reimer@mindlink.bc.ca (Jeremy Reimer) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: THE CLINTONS ARE COMING,THE CLINTONS ARE COMING Message-ID: <14119@mindlink.bc.ca> Date: 9 Aug 92 07:21:00 GMT Organization: MIND LINK! - British Columbia, Canada Distribution: world Lines: 31 > Dean C. Gelston writes: > > Msg-ID: <1992Aug8.095901.1812@usenet.ins.cwru.edu> > Posted: Sat, 8 Aug 92 09:59:01 G > > Org. : Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio, (USA) > > > THE CLINTONS ARE COMING, THE CLINTONS ARE COMING, THE CLINTONS ARE COMING > THE CLINTONS ARE COMING, THE CLINTONS ARE COMING, THE CLINTONS ARE COMING > > After all that is said and done if you give absolute power to the democratic > party whom already controls congress,you may find yourself saying > " Give me liberty or give me death ",Patric Henny, It's clear that the > Democratic Party intends to be power monsters and only one super human > person can save the world from dictatorship in a free land. vote REPUBLICAN! No way, vote for Clinton because he's going to expose the whole US govt coverup of the alien visitations!!! (Well, it's better than flaming this asshole for crossposting, I thought. :( -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Just when you thought| ==> Jeremy_Reimer@mindlink.bc.ca <== it was safe... | That's SUNNY Vancouver, British Columbia, *CANADA*!! ---------------------+------------------------------------------------------ He's BACK! The Car, | George: Blackadder! What time is it!? The Cat, The Lunatic,| Edmund: Thre Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!van-bc!rsoft!mindlink!a499 From: Robert_Salesas@mindlink.bc.ca (Robert Salesas) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Crop Circles? Message-ID: <14122@mindlink.bc.ca> Date: 9 Aug 92 07:42:03 GMT Organization: MIND LINK! - British Columbia, Canada Distribution: world Lines: 46 > Keith Allan Schneider writes: > > Msg-ID: <1992Aug9.022331.9288@cco.caltech.edu> > Posted: Sun, 9 Aug 1992 02:23:31 > > Org. : California Institute of Technology, Pasadena > > Robert_Salesas@mindlink.bc.ca (Robert Salesas) writes: > > >> Keith Allan Schneider writes: > >> > >> Now wait a minute. Didn't some guys admit to doing all of those crop > >> circles? > >> It was a group of older guys. They took a 2x4 with some ropes and smashed > >> the > >> crops with their foot on the board... > >> > >> Of course, I assume that all of the skeptical people in alt.alien didn't > >> believe them. > >> > >> keith > > >Of course. I imagine you believe these couple of "older guys" fly around > the > >world at the speed of light making fake crop circles in fast forward? > > Who said anything about flying around the world? > > keith > I imagine that by saying "skeptical people in al.alien didn't believe them" you are implying that these "older guys" are the cause of crop circles. Since crop circles appear around the world, all the time, often in multiple places at the same time, then these "older guys" must be zipping around the world making fake circles. Rob -- \------------------------------------------------------------------------/ \ Robert Salesas | Internet: Robert_Salesas@mindlink.bc.ca / \ Eschalon Development Inc. | CIS: 76625,1320 Tel/Fax: 604-520-1543 / \------------------------------------------------------------------------/ Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!wupost!cs.utexas.edu!hellgate.utah.edu!dog.ee.lbl.gov!overload.lbl.gov!agate!ames!sgi!cdp!elite From: Elite Enterprises Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Date: 08 Aug 92 21:24 PDT Subject: 13 HELICOPTERS ESCORT UFO Sender: Notesfile to Usenet Gateway Message-ID: <1296700005@igc.org> Nf-ID: #N:cdp:1296700005:000:496 Nf-From: cdp.UUCP!elite Aug 8 21:24:00 1992 Lines: 18 13 helicopters ecorting UFO in Mexico send blank vhs video tape to INTER-GLOBAL UFO INFORMATION RESOURCE BUREAU Department LP - POB 31577 Chicago, Illinois 60631-0577 they will have master in a few days. They ask you to include $3 for first class shipping and handling too. No Exceptioms. as far as that goes they also have a night laning on video, they'll include that too. if you're more than anxious send them $10 and they'll send keep you on their "private" (good stuff) mailing lists. Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!psgrain!qiclab!techbook!nancyp From: nancyp@techbook.com (Nancy Parsons) Subject: Re: THE NATURE OF REALITY Message-ID: <1992Aug9.071406.6873@techbook.com> Organization: TECHbooks of Beaverton Oregon - Public Access Unix References: <1992Aug7.152034.14241@usenet.ins.cwru.edu> <85571@netnews.upenn.edu> Date: Sun, 9 Aug 1992 07:14:06 GMT Lines: 28 jmv@grip.cis.upenn.edu (Jean-Marc Vezien) writes: B >> 1. No tracks whatsoever around the carcasses. >You obviously never tried to hide tracks. Not a too difficult >job, if you want to. >> 2. All blood completely drained from the bodies, but no blood on the >> ground. >Well ? the blood was drained somewhere else ! I might find it a tad difficult to cart ol' Bossie off, drain her blood and do a little dissection, and truck her back again, all however-many hundreds of pounds of dead meat of her, without either a whole crowd of people, or some heavy equipment. Given the logistical problems of transporting the carcass, I would think hiding the resulting tracks would be a DAMN difficult job. -- -------------------------------------------------------------------------- | Nancy Parsons | "You can't fire me - slaves must be sold! | |------------------------------------------------------------------------| | nancyp@techbook.COM ...!{tektronix!nosun,uunet}techbook!nancyp | Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!mcsun!news.funet.fi!polaris!polaris!polaris!sara.cc.utu.fi!shanwang From: shanwang@sara.cc.utu.fi Subject: *_-_-_*Tourist Update, Alpis*_-_-_* Message-ID: <1992Aug9.113628.1@sara.cc.utu.fi> Followup-To: *_-_-_*Tourist Update, Alps*_-_-_* Lines: 54 Sender: usenet@polaris.utu.fi (Usenet News) Nntp-Posting-Host: sara.cc.utu.fi Organization: University of Turku, Finland Date: 9 Aug 92 11:36:28 EET Lines: 54 %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% %% %% Hi, Johnny, %% %% Sorry I miss you for a long time. Since I seldom meet our netters %% on the news-group. My local net account is jammed and can not re- %% ceive any more ... %% %% This month I participant an exciting tour, -- to Alpis, my dear %% netters. I join the team and get accquainted with every tourist. %% It seems most of them are realy enthusics for this Alpis tour. %% But ... I am not so energetic and flee from them to back to my %% Lab this weekend for my study :) What a pity ... %% %% But when we are each other, I feel their spirt, the couragement %% to visit that nature wonder. How many time and energy they will %% put on this tour ! %% %% I met a old man and he told me, in some extent the touist is the %% faith of the nature. They are respectable and great ... %% %% I get the same opinion, because I am also a tourist for a lomg %% time. But unfortunitly I have to study this summer. So I agree %% with him. %% %% But after I come back by jet. I receive a post-card from one %% of my friend in Alpis. He camplains about those fellows are realy %% enthusias for their venture tour, but play too late on the night. %% %% You see, there are different teams park in a camp. That team have %% the party in the whole night so my friend can not even sleep at %% all. That's realy a big problem, Netters. %% %% He is a jounalist and should type his report in night. So, what a %% pity :( ... %% %% Today is 8-Aug-1992 22:13:51 EET, The follow update will be report %% soon. %% %% Sorry I am busy these days and cannot join your discussion, Please %% E-mail to J.Hill at UPs 3064. %% %% Have a nice time, Netters. %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% %% \ While blousing for exciting shoot, we are still young and be facina- \ %% \ ted by a fair game ; while accompanyed by albaran, I an still a you- \ %% \ ng albaran ... \ %% \ from science fiction << spaceship from albara >> \ %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% %% %% Sorry, on the screen the message is a little bit garmbled ... %% %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!thad From: thad@cup.portal.com (Thad P Floryan) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Ley Lines Message-ID: <63702@cup.portal.com> Date: Sun, 9 Aug 92 05:13:14 PDT Organization: The Portal System (TM) References: <1992Aug5.174301.2719@random.ccs.northeastern.edu> <63574@cup.portal.com> <1992Aug7.165152.11170@ryn.mro4.dec.com> Lines: 238 In article <1992Aug7.165152.11170@ryn.mro4.dec.com> randolph@est.enet.dec.com (Tom Randolph) writes: |In article <63574@cup.portal.com>, thad@cup.portal.com (Thad P Floryan) writes |>The word "tide" reminds me of the inexcusable error in ASIMOV ON ASTRONOMY |>where he misstated the reason for simultaneous high tides on opposite sides |>of the earth. He neglected to treat the earth and moon as a 2-body system |>whose center of gravity is displaced from earth's center towards the moon |>(and thus overlooked centrifugal force). |> |>Thad Floryan [ thad@cup.portal.com ] | |Huh? |Please elaborate on the above, particularly what would occur if the Moon was |stationary relative to the Earth. Also, please explain solar tides and why the y |occur on both sides of the Earth. Happy to oblige. I've included both the correct explanation (as I stated) [centrifugal force] and the incorrectly-stated one from Asimov's book [gravity gradients]. Note the correct definition (Bowditch) appears in print continuously since 1802 (my copies of the 1,500 page tome are dated 1962 and 1966); Asimov's book appeared in 1974. I don't wish to speak ill of Asimov since I enjoy reading his science fiction; his math is OK but his explanation is flawed [as a side note, correspondence with him and his publisher circa 1976 elicited "the book will not be corrected as the error is not important."] Just a quick definition before presenting the material; from FUNK & WAGNALLS DICTIONARY, International Edition: `` centrifugal force: the inertial reaction of a body against a force constraining it to move in a curved path. '' As a simple experiment, rapidly swing a bucket full of water over your head and note the water doesn't douse you; hold the inverted bucket stationary over your head and note you are now all wet! :-) Thad Floryan [ thad@cup.portal.com ] ---------- From "Hydrographic Office Publication Number 9, AMERICAN PRACTICAL NAVIGATOR, originally by Nathaniel Bowditch, Corrected Print published by the U.S.Naval Oceanographic Office, U.S. Government Printing Office", Chapter XXXI, TIDES and TIDAL CURRENTS, extracts from pages 703 to 704: `` 3101. THE TIDAL PHENOMENON is the periodic motion of the waters of the sea due to differences in the attractive forces of various celestial bodies, principally the moon and sun, upon different parts of the rotating earth. [...] 3102. TIDE AND CURRENT. [...] The two movements, tide and tidal current, are intimately related, forming parts of the same phenomenon brought about by the tide- producing forces of the sun and moon, principally. [...] 3103. CAUSE. Tides result from differences in the gravitational attraction of various celestial bodies, principally the moon and sun, upon different parts of the rotating earth. The gravity of the earth acts approximately towards the earth's center, and tends to hold the earth in the shape of a sphere. But the moon and sun provide disturbing, or tide-producing, forces. Consider the earth and moon. The moon ===> appears to revolve about the earth, but actually the moon and earth ===> revolve about their common center of mass. They are held together by gravitational attraction and kept apart by an equal and opposite ===> centrifugal force. In the earth-moon system, the tide-producing force ===> on the earth's hemisphere nearer the moon is in the direction of the ===> moon's attraction, or toward the moon. On the hemisphere opposite the ===> moon the tide-producing force is in the direction of the centrifugal ===> force, or away from the moon. At the sublunar point, and its antipode, the moon's attractive force is vertical, in the opposite direction to gravity. Along the great circle midway between these points, the force is horizontal, parallel to the earth's surface. At any other point, the moon's tide-producing force can be resolved into horizontal and vertical components. Both are very small compared to earth's gravity. Since the horizontal component is not operating against gravity and can draw particles of water over the surface of the earth, it is the most effective in generating tides. The tide-producing forces, then, tend to create high tides on the sides of the earth nearest to and farthest from the moon, with a low tide belt between them. As the earth rotates, a point on earth passes through two high and two low areas each day is the moon is over the equator (fig. 3103, A). When the moon is north or south of the equator, the force pattern is as shown in figure 3103, B, and a point on the equator passes through two equal highs, but a point in higher latitudes passes through two unequal highs or only one high. Thus, due to changes in the moon's declination, there is introduced a diurnal inequality in the pattern of the tidal forces at a particular ===> place. There are similar forces due to the sun, and the total tide ===> producing force is the resultant of the two. Minute tidal effects are caused by other celestial bodies. The mathematician develops his formulas by considering the difference in attraction between a point on the earth's surface and a point at the earth's center. In accordance with Newton's law, gravitational attraction of an astronomical body varies directly as its mass and inversely as the SQUARE of the distance. But the tide-producing (differential) force varies directly as the mass and inversely as ===> the CUBE of the distance. As a consequence, only the moon and sun ===> produce any appreciable tidal effect upon the earth. Further, although ===> the moon's mass is but a fraction of the sun's, dividing such masses ===> by the cube of their respective distances -- (238,862)^3 statute miles ===> and (92,900,000)^3 statute miles, respectively, reduces the sun's ===> tide-producing force to only 0.46 that of the moon. It is because of ===> this that the timing of the tides is identified so closely with the ===> motions of the moon. [...] '' Figure 3103, parts A and B, tide-producing forces, is NOT enclosed here; picture force vectors on the earth's surface directed toward the moon. ---------- From ASIMOV ON ASTRONOMY, Isaac Asimov, Doubleday, 1974, ISBN 0-385-04111-X, Library of Congress Catalog Card Number 73-80946, Chapter 1, TIME AND TIDE, extracts from pages 3 to 9: `` [...] What difference does it make whether we call the force exerted by the Moon on the Earth "sympathetic attraction" or "gravitational attraction"? How could the Moon, when it was on the other side of the earth, cause the water on this side to heap upward, AWAY from the Moon. The Moon would still have to be pulling in one place and pushing in another, wouldn't it? And that still wouldn't make sense, would it? Ah, but Newton did more than change words and substitute "gravity" for "sympathy." Newton showed exactly how the gravitational force varied with distance, which was more than anyone else before him had shown in connection with any vaguely postulated sympathetic force. The gravitational force varied inversely as the square of the distance. That means the force grows smaller as the distance grows larger; and if the distance increased by a ratio of X, the force decreases by a ratio of X^2. Let's take the specific case of the Moon and the Earth. The average distance of the Moon's center from the surface of the Earth nearest itself is 234,000 miles. In order to get the distance of the Moon's center from the surface of the Earth farthest from itself, you must add the thickness of the Earth (8,000 miles) to the first figure, and that gives you 242,000 miles. If we set the distance of the Moon to the near surface of the Earth at 1, then the distance to the far surface is 242,000/234,000 or 1.034. As the distance increases from 1.000 to 1.034, the gravitational force decreases from 1.000 to 1/(1.034)^2, or 0.93. There is thus a 7.0 percent difference in the amount of gravitational force exerted by the Moon on the two sides of the Earth. If the Earth were made of soft rubber, you might picture it as yielding somewhat to the Moon's pull, but each part would yield by a different amount depending on the strength of the pull on that particular part. The surface of the Earth on the Moon's side would yield most since it would be most strongly attracted. The parts beneath the surface would be attracted with a progressively weaker force and move less and less ===> towards the Moon. The opposite side of the Earth, being farthest from ===> the Moon would move toward it least of all. ===> There would therefore be two bulges; one on the part of the Earth's ===> surface nearest the Moon, since that part of the surface would move ===> the most; and another on the part of the Earth's surface farthest from ===> the Moon, since that part of the surface would move the least and LAG ===> behind all the rest of the Earth. If that's not clear, let's try analogy. {runners in a long race} [...] ===> Actually the solid body of the Earth, held together by strong ===> intermolecular forces, yields only very slightly to the gravitational ===> differential exerted by the Moon on the Earth. The liquid oceans, ===> held together by far weaker intermolecular forces, yield considerably ===> more and make two "tidal bulges," one toward the Moon and one away ===> from it. [...] The tides follow the Moon. The Sun modifies the Moon's effect but never abolishes it. Surely, one ought to ask why that should be so. I have said that the Sun's gravitational pull on the Earth is 176 times that of the Moon. Why then should it be the Moon that produces the major tidal effect? ===> The answer is that it is not the gravitational pull itself that ===> produces the tides, but the difference in that pull upon different ===> parts of the earth. The difference in gravitational pull over the Earth's width decreases rapidly as the body under consideration is moved further off, since, as the total distance increases, the distance represented by the width of the Earth makes up a smaller and smaller part of the total. Thus, the distance of the Sun's center from the Earth's center is about 92,900,000 miles. The Earth's width makes far less difference in this case than in the case, cited earlier, of the Moon's distance. The distance from the Sun's center to the side of the Earth near it is 92,896,000, while the distance to the far side is 92,904,000. If the distance from the Sun's center to the near side of the Earth is set to 1, then the distance to the far side is 1.00009. In that distance, the Sun's gravitational pull drops off only 1/(1.00009)^2 or 0.99982. In other words, where the difference in the Moon's gravitational pull from one side of the Earth to the other is 7.0 percent, the difference of the Sun's gravitational pull is only 0.018 percent. Multiply the Sun's gravitational difference by its greater gravitational pull overall (0.018 x 176) and you get 3.2 percent. The tide-producing effect of the Moon is to that of the Sun as 7.0 is to 3.2 or as 1 is to 0.46. We see then that the Moon's effect on tides is more than twice that of the Sun, despite the Sun's much greater gravitational pull. A second way of attaining the comparative gravitational pulls of two bodies on the Earth is to divide their respective masses by the CUBES of their respective distances. Thus, since the moon as a 1 Moon-mass and is at 1 Moon-distance, its tide-producing effect is (1/1)^3 or 1. The Sun with 27,000,000 Moon-masses at 392 Moon-distances, has a tide-producing effect of 27,000,000/(392)^3 or 0.46. [...] '' -------------------- [end] Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Ley Lines Message-ID: <63703@cup.portal.com> Date: Sun, 9 Aug 92 06:43:51 PDT Organization: The Portal System (TM) References: <63302@cup.portal.com> <85155@netnews.upenn.edu> <63421@cup.portal.com> <1992Aug5.174301.2719@random.ccs.northeastern.edu> <63467@cup.portal.com> Lines: 11 Dear Ley Observers: Here is Part 7 of Shaari's information about Ley Lines and the Nasca Lines.---And that was meant to balance the energy, to harmonize the energy and to bring forth that conciousness of healing, and that energy of healing from the other dimensions into this earth plane. And so when the people were walking the Nasca Lines, what was happebning {was} that they had a variety of experiences. We had two groups of people. One group that chose to walk the lines, another that chose to fly over them. ----{The group that were walking} the Nasca Lines, they could feel the definite energy shifts, alright? As they were walking over these lines, their intestines adn their chakras, the {meekest} chakras began to act up, and began to tie into knots. And when--- JW. Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!nntp1.radiomail.net!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Ley Lines Message-ID: <63704@cup.portal.com> Date: Sun, 9 Aug 92 06:58:08 PDT Organization: The Portal System (TM) References: <1992Aug5.174301.2719@random.ccs.northeastern.edu> <63466@cup.portal.com> <+xxm-8-@lynx.unm.edu> <63579@cup.portal.com> Lines: 11 ---they {started} to move or cross from line to line they would experience different levels of noytiousness and some people, different levels of elation, as they crossed over tese sacred markings. When the people flew over them there was a sense of anticipation, and they felt noytiousness somewhere during the flight and some people had extreme difficulty focusing {and} it didn't have anything to do with the airplane, but it was that they had this incredible infusion of higher energy coming into {the} crown chakra, really getting them light headed and at the same time they had difficulty focusing. And so when we combined both of these groups together we had one group that had very {earth} experiences, walking over them and it was very much churning of the inside of their----JW Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:11124 alt.alien.visitors:8151 sci.skeptic:28567 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!sun-barr!apple!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day Message-ID: <63709@cup.portal.com> Date: Sun, 9 Aug 92 07:24:28 PDT Organization: The Portal System (TM) References: <1992Jun5.011013.1412@beaver.cs.washington.edu> <63649@cup.portal.com> Lines: 11 Dear People of Shan: Here is some information about the Pleiades.---- The Pleiades is a cluster of stars lying within the modern (IAU) boundaries of the constellation Taurus. Stars in a cluster are similar to one another in age and composition and are therefore believed to have formed from the same intersteller cloud at about the same time. The Pleiades cluster is quite compact and is centered about 3 hours 46 minutes Right Ascension (RA) and about +24 degrees 10 arc minutes declination. It extends from about 3 hours 44 minutes +24 degrees 40 arc minutes dec. Therefore, to an observer on earth, it subtends about one degree in the sky. (About twice the --JW Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!csc.ti.com!tilde.csc.ti.com!fstop.csc.ti.com!tidss1!alanj From: alanj@dadd.ti.com (Alan Jones,AMJ1,) Subject: Re: Aliens are partly to blame Message-ID: <1992Aug9.140442.11725@csc.ti.com> Sender: usenet@csc.ti.com Nntp-Posting-Host: tidss1.dadd.ti.com Reply-To: alanj@dadd.ti.com Organization: Texas Instruments, Inc. References: Date: Sun, 9 Aug 1992 14:04:42 GMT Lines: 19 In article 19114@andromeda.rutgers.edu, mccabe@andromeda.rutgers.edu (Chris Mccabe) writes: > Yet, if you believe many of the stories surrounding the UFO > phenomenon, then you can see that any aliens, on Earth, have > not exercised a "Prime Directive" type philosophy. I mean, > abductions, secret underground bases, cattle mutilations, crop > circles - these are NON-interference?? Granted, it's not total > interference, but these acts (assuming some of them are true) > do interfere with the lives of people and animals. But I believe the "Prime Directive" refers to not interfering with the evolution/progress of a species, and not total non-interference with all of the members of the species. In Star Trek, you'll remember that the crew of the Enterprise often contacted alien civilizations, but was forbidden from providing technology. --- sincerely, Alan Jones / Texas Instruments, Dallas, TX / email=alanj@dadd.ti.com Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:11125 alt.alien.visitors:8153 sci.skeptic:28568 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sdd.hp.com!cs.utexas.edu!sun-barr!apple!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Subject: Re: Ride on John's Back, Please! (Was: Re: Get Off John's Back Message-ID: <63711@cup.portal.com> Date: Sun, 9 Aug 92 07:43:09 PDT Organization: The Portal System (TM) References: <63388@cup.portal.com> <63465@cup.portal.com> <63498@cup.portal.com> <63529@cup.portal.com> Lines: 11 ---the sky. The nine named stars are: Atlas, the father, spectral type B8 III, magnitude 3.6 290 light years away. Pleione, the mother, spectral type B8, magnitude 5.1, 95 light years away. Alcyone, spectral type B7 III, mignitude 2.9, 240 light years away. Asterope, spectral type V, magnitude 5.8, 490 light years away. Celaeno, spectral type B7 IV, magnitude 5.5, 590 light years away. Electra, spectral type B6 III, mag. 3.7, 390 ly distant. -----JW Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:11126 alt.alien.visitors:8154 sci.skeptic:28569 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!sun-barr!apple!nntp1.radiomail.net!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day Message-ID: <63712@cup.portal.com> Date: Sun, 9 Aug 92 07:48:04 PDT Organization: The Portal System (TM) References: <1992Jun5.011013.1412@beaver.cs.washington.edu> <63649@cup.portal.com> Lines: 4 ----Maia, spectral type B7 III, mag. 3.9, 390 ly distant. Merope, spectral type B6 IV, mag. 4.2, 390 ly distant. Taygete,spectral type B6 V, mag. 4.3 360 ly away. John Winton. Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:11127 alt.alien.visitors:8155 sci.skeptic:28570 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!sun-barr!ames!agate!apple!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Subject: Re: Ride on John's Back, Please! (Was: Re: Get Off John's Back Message-ID: <63710@cup.portal.com> Date: Sun, 9 Aug 92 07:34:08 PDT Organization: The Portal System (TM) References: <63388@cup.portal.com> <63465@cup.portal.com> <63498@cup.portal.com> <63529@cup.portal.com> Lines: 11 ---diameter of the sun or the moon.) The Pleiades, also called M45, is a relatively young open cluster of stars enshrouded in gas and dust in an area covering 2 degrees, about 415 light years away. To the unaided eye, the Pleiades consists of six faint stars. A telescope shows that there are hundreds more. Of these, nine are named: the seven sisters and their two parents, Atlas and Pleione. In Greek mythology the Pleiades were the seven daughters of Atlas and Pleione and the half-sisters of the Hyades. The sisters, pursued by Orion, begged for help from the gods. zeus heard their plea, and turned them first into pigeons and then into stars in---JW Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:11128 alt.alien.visitors:8156 sci.skeptic:28571 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!sun-barr!apple!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day Message-ID: <63714@cup.portal.com> Date: Sun, 9 Aug 92 08:15:04 PDT Organization: The Portal System (TM) References: <1992Jun5.011013.1412@beaver.cs.washington.edu> Lines: 11 Dear Astral Convoy Participants: Now to give you a little more information about the space craft item. At 800 PM Hawaii time the man I call E. the Adept pulled his truch over to the side of the road. I appeared to him and we went aboard a space ship. We did some sort of proceedure of holding hands in a group for about 15 minutes and a few more people showed up. It appeared that my arm had been injured and E. the Adept healed it. A person came aboard that tried to start running everything. After all of this happened J. of Penn. USA arrived back home and the horses out back of her house were making a great amount of noise and it sounded like a fire was in the stables but there was no fire. That's all folks. John Winston. Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!nntp1.radiomail.net!portal!cup.portal.com!thad From: thad@cup.portal.com (Thad P Floryan) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Aliens are partly to blame Message-ID: <63706@cup.portal.com> Date: Sun, 9 Aug 92 07:19:48 PDT Organization: The Portal System (TM) References: <63577@cup.portal.com> Lines: 76 In article mccabe@andromeda.rutgers.edu (Chris Mccabe) writes: | thad@cup.portal.com (Thad P Floryan) writes: | >[...] | >Given our experiences with the "cargo cults" circa WW II ("advanced" society | >casually contacting a "primitive" society), I would expect any ET visitors t o | >have an ethic like the "Prime Directive" popularized by "Star Trek" in which | >NON-interference is paramount (unless there is some nefarious scheme afoot). | | Yet, if you believe many of the stories surrounding the UFO | phenomenon, then you can see that any aliens, on Earth, have | not exercised a "Prime Directive" type philosophy. I mean, | abductions, secret underground bases, cattle mutilations, crop | circles - these are NON-interference?? Granted, it's not total | interference, but these acts (assuming some of them are true) | do interfere with the lives of people and animals. Note the definition of nefarious: ``wicked in the extreme; heinous. See synonyms under criminal, flagrant, sinful.'' I clearly wrote: ``... (unless there is some nefarious scheme afoot).'' You may wish to read the anthropological and psychological studies of the cultures which succumbed to the "cargo cult" phenomenon; interesting stuff. I wish I could cite the references, but most of my books are still boxed and I'm weary from having moved over 100 boxes a short while ago to retrieve my Bowditch and Asimov books for use answering another article. *IF* one subscribes to an "alien visitor" hypothesis, there are several (and probably more) concomitant assumptions one could make concerning the visitors: -- they're intelligent (by our standards, understanding physics (re: space travel), mathematics (re: celestial navigation), chemistry and biology (re: survival during space flight), etc etc) -- they're social (in terms of cooperating with each other and forming a society capable of funding and producing space vehicles and fostering exploration (for WHATEVER reason)) -- they're curious (HOWEVER, their motivation may not be in OUR best interest(s)) What else? They might have NO ethics (i.e. be amoral). This, by itself, doesn't imply "evil" since they could view us as we view, say, ants and spiders. Their actions may be simply that, actions, with no concept (or need?) of "right" and "wrong". Does a bird regret killing and eating a worm? Do we regret killing and eating fish or cows (or uprooting and eating a plant for those vegetarians reading this! :-)? My "answer" (above) is not to imply I believe we have been "visited" but serves to illustrate some of the things we'd need to consider in anticipation of a contact with a race of spacefaring beings (if such the UFO events turn out to be). The technical aspects of space flight are known; the requirements for inter- stellar flight are (mostly) known and within our grasp (we COULD, if funded, send people "out there" with even today's technology (although the duration of such travel might be untenable)). But what about the cultural, social, psychological aspects? I firmly believe the "cargo cult" incidents might be a harbinger of problems to come. What would happen to you if all of a sudden it was revealed that everything you've done, are doing, and will be doing, is just useless and a waste of time? It's possible you would enter despair and cease having a will to survive (e.g. along the lines of "Abandon all Hope, all Ye who enter Here" :-) These are just some thoughts; as I've stated before, my areas of expertise are in other fields, but I relish reading discussion of issues in ALL fields. Thad Floryan [ thad@cup.portal.com ] Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!nntp1.radiomail.net!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Ley Lines Message-ID: <63705@cup.portal.com> Date: Sun, 9 Aug 92 07:09:55 PDT Organization: The Portal System (TM) Distribution: world References: <61006@cup.portal.com> Lines: 9 ---or aliveening them with the {spiraling} of energy at both of the {legs through} each of the chakras or else it was the people who flew over them who {became} extremely high headed. And so you have in our little tour bus, your have two groups of people, one with physical sensations and one that {was} very much filled with the etheric sensations and as both groups met,there was a blending of that energy and harmonizing of that energy which then balanced out the entire group, {because it geared} the polarity of the experience. End of Part 7. John Winston. Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!nntp1.radiomail.net!portal!cup.portal.com!thad From: thad@cup.portal.com (Thad P Floryan) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: what does _-_ mean? Message-ID: <63707@cup.portal.com> Date: Sun, 9 Aug 92 07:21:22 PDT Organization: The Portal System (TM) References: Lines: 23 In article ken@uxc.cso.uiuc.edu (Ken Primer) writes: | I've noticed several people in this group have a _-_ in their name. | What does this mean? If you'll note, those people all post from Portal. If one doesn't choose a login "alias" (like I've done), then the person's real name is their login name; for those who didn't give Portal a middle initial, a "-" is used by default. You'll notice, too, that posters NOT using an alias don't have their real name as a quoted suffix; for example, mine appear as: "thad@cup.portal.com (Thad P Floryan)" whereas you will (often :-) see: "John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com" without a suffix. Thad Floryan [ thad@cup.portal.com ] Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!nntp1.radiomail.net!portal!cup.portal.com!thad From: thad@cup.portal.com (Thad P Floryan) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Shared databases, instrumentation, plausibility, etc. Message-ID: <63708@cup.portal.com> Date: Sun, 9 Aug 92 07:23:16 PDT Organization: The Portal System (TM) References: <63575@cup.portal.com> <1992Aug8.183013.15447@tellab5.tellabs.com> Lines: 54 In article <1992Aug8.183013.15447@tellab5.tellabs.com> jcj@tellabs.com (JCJ) writes: | Thad P Floryan writes: | >... | >If you could "instrument" a UFO sighting, what types of instruments | >would be pertinent and what types of data would you seek? Anyone been | >measuring, say, radon levels? Magnetic field and/or gravity | >perturbations? | | I'd suggest geiger counters, magnetometers, gravitometers, high quality | video and IR/thermal from multiple cameras and several different | angles to hopefully allow triangulation and cover data lost from lens | flares, etc. Radon is interesting; are you looking for a connection with | seismic activity? I seem to recall an article in "Science News" | some years back about increased UFO sightings along fault lines just | prior to quakes suggesting a plasma phenomenon of some kind. That was my thought (re: radon). EM (but what spectra?) too. It almost seems that, unless someone gets "real lucky" and stumbles on the right thing, that we'd have to quantify EVERYTHING, since we're dealing with an UNKNOWN phenomenon. Sigh; starts to become very difficult and costly (let alone the possible frustration(s) of not having the equipment ready at the "right" time). | >... | >What would it require to convince you beyond ALL doubt that a(ny) | >given UFO sighting at which you were NOT a first-hand observer/ | >participant was truly an "unearthly event"? ... | | That is an excellent question; it prompts one to sort out his | beliefs. I personally believe CE Is, CE IIs, crop circles are plasma | (people didn't believe in ball lightning a few years ago, remember) | and/or meteorological phenomena. I think CE IIIs/abductions are a | psychological phenomenon similar to the Our Lady of Fatima (?) sightings. | Those kids are 100% certain they were talking to the Virgin Mary. | Considering neuroresearch indicating you can trigger a religious | experience by electrically stimulating certain regions of the brain, | what if the electromagnetic phenomenon that causes a CE I or II is in the | proximity of a human? Do we get a CE III? [...] My thinking, too. I don't have any answers. My four "experiences" as related here last month have caused me (over the years) to have more than an en passant interest in the phenomenon, but I still haven't formed any opinions. "Something" is occurring. There's NO question about it given the reports worldwide. But as to the NATURE of the phenomenon, quien sabe? Thad Floryan [ thad@cup.portal.com ] Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!nntp1.radiomail.net!portal!cup.portal.com!thad From: thad@cup.portal.com (Thad P Floryan) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Ley Lines Message-ID: <63713@cup.portal.com> Date: Sun, 9 Aug 92 08:06:17 PDT Organization: The Portal System (TM) References: <63466@cup.portal.com> <+xxm-8-@lynx.unm.edu> <63574@cup.portal.com> Lines: 75 In article payner@netcom.com (Rich Payne) writes: |In article <63574@cup.portal.com> thad@cup.portal.com (Thad P Floryan) writes: |>[...] |>Some thoughts ... |>[...] |>[...] |>Earth's Van Allen radiation belts were unknown prior to the "space age." | |I'm unclear what this has to do with anything. It was a leadin to: |>Reflect on this past week's shuttle experiment: an attempt was made to |>[...] |Ever heard of NMR (opps, now MR). It uses magnetic fields in the several |tesla range. I have worked in maintaining one, and even had some test |images taken. Even in a very strong field, I saw no visual effects. Sure. A acquaintance of mine, Dean Sutphin, is (was?) the VP Engineering at Resonex where they make such things. I'm very familiar with the process, formerly known as Nuclear Magnetic Resonance and later changed to MRI (Magnetic Resonance Imaging), because the word "nuclear" scared people/patients who don't understand the true nature of the process. Given my previous experiences automating SEMs (scanning electronic microscopes), I was considering doing the same for MRI applications, but other interests diverted my attention. People are still not letting me live down the joke I posted to sci.electronics last year: ``I'll give you an NMR you'll never forget," said the Nurse as she lubricated the probe and soaped the magnets.'' :-) [Say it with a Boston accent, or speak it quickly after a few beers! ] HOWEVER, the MRI process is not that which has been known to cause the effect I previously mentioned. |And magnetic media are read/written to with -magnetic- fields only. You |seem to be using electric/magnetic/electromagnetic interchangably. As far |as I am aware, you are alone in doing this. Perhaps you would explain? My posting comprised a "collection" of thoughts (as stated at the beginning); I do not see how that leads you to believe I use "electric/magnetic/electro- magnetic interchangably" as a matter of course! :-) And, BTW, a "simple" magnetic field will NOT erase computer magnetic media. I delight in showing people how I can lift a floppy disk off the table using a humongous magnet I keep in my garage, and then free/pry the disk from the magnet and still read it without error in a floppy drive. It requires an alternating field, usually a (relatively) low frequency AC field over the media, to erase (most) computer data. Check out the correct use of a bulk eraser: even with its 60Hz EM field, one still must approach the media slowly, wave it around the media, and back off slowly before turning the eraser off. I use an R. B. Annis magnetometer to check the erasure and/or demagnetization of my tape and other equipment (and that device IS affected by the earth's field (and could probably detect a UFO at fifty paces! :-) ) Higher frequencies at lower intensities are mixed with data and serve to "bias" (to prepare) tape for recording (at least for audio, dunno about computers; I just buy and use computer tape/disk drives, I don't design and build them! :-) As I mentioned to someone else privately, I used to work at the Electronic Defense Labs and I wouldn't be surprised if some of my designs are still flying in earth orbit and/or being used "elsewhere." I left EDL for Tymshare back in the mid-1960s, and left Tymshare in 1972 to co-form another (software) company (at which I can still be found afternoons and evenings; and I started another company in 1983 which produces special data processing equipment of my own design for telco and government clients. Point being: between those two companies and the research and other work I do, I have much occasion to get electrons all over my hands! :-) Thad Floryan [ thad@cup.portal.com ] Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!usc!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!jato!quake!nateh From: nateh@quake.sylmar.ca.us (Nate Hawthorn) Subject: PLEASE NO GUNS!! Message-ID: Sender: bbs@quake.sylmar.ca.us Organization: Quake Public Access Date: Sun, 9 Aug 1992 15:55:55 GMT Lines: 11 Could someone please figure out where all this "gun" posts are comming from and tell them to not post here? I have to read 100 messages just to get the 10 that are posted here to alt.alien.visitors or even better, take all messages and filter them using the word "gun" and then allow them to be posted here??? (I'm just joking) Nate.. Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!wupost!csus.edu!netcom.com!payner From: payner@netcom.com (Rich Payne) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Ley Lines Message-ID: <3y1mttb.payner@netcom.com> Date: 9 Aug 92 17:22:53 GMT References: <63574@cup.portal.com> <63713@cup.portal.com> Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest) Lines: 70 In article <63713@cup.portal.com> thad@cup.portal.com (Thad P Floryan) writes: >In article payner@netcom.com (Rich Payne) writes: > >|In article <63574@cup.portal.com> thad@cup.portal.com (Thad P Floryan) writes: >|>[...] >|>Some thoughts ... >|>[...] >|>[...] >|>Earth's Van Allen radiation belts were unknown prior to the "space age." >| >|I'm unclear what this has to do with anything. > >It was a leadin to: > >|>Reflect on this past week's shuttle experiment: an attempt was made to >|>[...] > >|Ever heard of NMR (opps, now MR). It uses magnetic fields in the several >|tesla range. I have worked in maintaining one, and even had some test >|images taken. Even in a very strong field, I saw no visual effects. > >Sure. A acquaintance of mine, Dean Sutphin, is (was?) the VP Engineering at >Resonex where they make such things. I'm very familiar with the process, >formerly known as Nuclear Magnetic Resonance and later changed to MRI (Magnetic >Resonance Imaging), because the word "nuclear" scared people/patients who don't >understand the true nature of the process. Given my previous experiences >automating SEMs (scanning electronic microscopes), I was considering doing >the same for MRI applications, but other interests diverted my attention. But you had claimed visual effects in strong magnetic fields. I've been there, no visual effects noted. And the magnetic field is -not- static when imaging. >People are still not letting me live down the joke I posted to sci.electronics >last year: > > ``I'll give you an NMR you'll never forget," said the Nurse as she > lubricated the probe and soaped the magnets.'' :-) > >[Say it with a Boston accent, or speak it quickly after a few beers! ] Hehehe, I can see it... >HOWEVER, the MRI process is not that which has been known to cause the effect >I previously mentioned. > >|And magnetic media are read/written to with -magnetic- fields only. You >|seem to be using electric/magnetic/electromagnetic interchangably. As far >|as I am aware, you are alone in doing this. Perhaps you would explain? > >My posting comprised a "collection" of thoughts (as stated at the beginning); >I do not see how that leads you to believe I use "electric/magnetic/electro- >magnetic interchangably" as a matter of course! :-) > >And, BTW, a "simple" magnetic field will NOT erase computer magnetic media. >I delight in showing people how I can lift a floppy disk off the table using >a humongous magnet I keep in my garage, and then free/pry the disk from the >magnet and still read it without error in a floppy drive. I'm aware of this. So why is it that you stated that magnetic media were read/written to with either EM fields of electric fields? I forget which you posted, and you edited it out. [...] >Thad Floryan [ thad@cup.portal.com ] Rich payner@netcom.com Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!mcsun!fuug!mits!karttu From: karttu@mits.mdata.fi (Antti Karttunen) Subject: Re: A question for John_-_Winston Message-ID: <1992Aug9.224854.25507@mits.mdata.fi> Organization: MITS, Helsinki, Finland References: <63382@cup.portal.com> <63499@cup.portal.com> Date: Sun, 9 Aug 1992 22:48:54 GMT Lines: 33 In article <63499@cup.portal.com> John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes: >I have been informed that Multu posts 20k of information per day on >a net that mainly comes from Europe. He talks about politics and the >person explaining him to me seems to really like him. >John Winston. His name is Mutlu, not Multu, Mulkku or Mushi. He crossposts mainly to these newsgroups: soc.culture.turkish, talk.politics.mideast, talk.politics.soviet,soc.culture.greek,soc.culture.europe,soc.history and occassionally to some other ones too. He is really a scourge of the Usenet, although sometimes I find his postings funny in some masochistic way. Even rn exploded when I tried to catch his postings and comments to them with my killfile. (Out of memory, sigh...) Now, if we could claim that Armenians came really from Aldebaran to kill and maim the innocent Turks (or vice versa, no flames to me, these are not my opinions!), we could get him to crosspost here too... ;-) His address is han@anadolu.michigan.com (hasan.b.mutlu). In some another article <63420@cup.portal.com> you write: >Don't have time to say anything but this, remember tonight 1100 PM, >wednesday, astral blast off time, pacific daylight saving time. Don't >be late. >John Winston. Hmm, maybe I should patch the local Unix here so that it would give the dates in the following format: Mon Aug 10 00:39:50 ABOT 1992 (instead of dull EET.) -- Antti Karttunen -- $B%"%s%C%F%#!!%+%k%C%H%%%M%s(J (et{ty|t|n) karttu@mits.mdata.fi -- Apatheist, although not particularly proud of it. Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!usc!sdd.hp.com!apollo.hp.com!netnews From: nelson_p@apollo.hp.com (Peter Nelson) Subject: Re: We have met the enemy and they are us. Sender: usenet@apollo.hp.com (Usenet News) Message-ID: Date: Sun, 9 Aug 1992 23:03:09 GMT References: <1992Aug7.145023.25274@acd4.acd.com> <1992Aug8.015801.21824@mprgate.mpr.ca> Nntp-Posting-Host: c.ch.apollo.hp.com Organization: Hewlett-Packard Corporation, Chelmsford, MA Lines: 44 In article <1992Aug8.015801.21824@mprgate.mpr.ca> spani@mprgate.mpr.ca (Leonard Spani) writes: >In article , nelson_p@apollo.hp.com (Peter Nelson) writes: >[...] >|> I think abductions are an interesting phenomenon, but I have >|> never seen any reason to think that they are not merely an >|> interesting *psychological* phenomenon, and nothing more. >|> But, as always, I am willing to be convinced otherwise. >[...] > >Just one comment on this snippet I took out of context :^) > > >There are reports that some abduction victims show signs of >Post Traumatic Stress Disorder. PTSD as it is currently understood is >supposed to only occur in people who have been the victim of an >objective (i.e. not psychological), external, stressful event (like rape.) Well, one way to answer this is to point out that psychology is not such a hard science that it's possible to reliably define either when someone has a particular syndrome, or what its antecedents were. Even today there are perfectly serious, practicing psychologists who believe that major psychotic illnesses such as schizophrenia are essentially affective disorders. Psychology is just not a rigorous science ( I have a BS in it -- I know of what I speak) The other answer to this might be to point out that some people believe that many alleged "abductees" may in fact be recalling childhood or repressed incidents of, say, sexual molestation, or even legitimate but nonetheless terrifying early childhood exper- iences (surgery or whatnot). For instance, I was circumcised immediately after birth like most North American males. But unlike most I recall the whole thing vividly, and had nightmares about it for years afterwards. There was nothing unique about the procedure in my case (infections, etc). There is just a great deal of normal variation in how we remember certain things and how we react to certain things. ---peter Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!thad From: thad@cup.portal.com (Thad P Floryan) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Aliens are partly to blame Message-ID: <63739@cup.portal.com> Date: Sun, 9 Aug 92 16:21:57 PDT Organization: The Portal System (TM) References: <63577@cup.portal.com> <63706@cup.portal.com> Lines: 35 Believe me, I did *NOT* read today's "Calvin & Hobbes" before posting some thoughts concerning possible alien/ET ethics! Really! :-) For those who are unaware, "Calvin & Hobbes" is a syndicated comic strip about a boy and his "tiger"; the boy is subject to flights of fancy and fantasy (to put it mildly). Today's strip is copyright 1992 by Watterson, and distributed by the Universal Press Syndicate; it is pertinent to alt.alien.visitors: `` panel 1: The aliens come from a far distant world in a large yellow ship that blinked as it twirled. It rounded the moon and entered our sky. We knew they had come, but we didn't know why. panel 2: Bright the next morning, with noisy commotion, the ship slowly moved out over the ocean. It lowered a tube and drained the whole sea for transport back to their galaxy. panel 3: The tube then sucked up the clouds and the air, causing no small amount of earthling despair. With nothing to breathe, we started to die. "Help us! Please stop!" was the public outcry. panel 4: A hatch opened up and the aliens said, "We're sorry to learn that you will soon be dead, but though you may find this slightly macabre, we prefer your extinction to the loss of our job." panel 5 (last): Calvin: "That's my science fiction story. Think it's too far-fetched?" Hobbes: "Not enough, really." '' Interesting. Thad Floryan [ thad@cup.portal.com ] Xref: icaen alt.alien.visitors:8167 alt.conspiracy:17563 alt.activism:30801 sci.skeptic:28584 misc.headlines:23362 alt.politics.bush:1925 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!uwm.edu!ogicse!das-news.harvard.edu!husc-news.harvard.edu!husc8.harvard.edu!rocher From: rocher@husc8.harvard.edu (Jean-Marc Rocher) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy,alt.activism,sci.skeptic,misc.headlines,alt.politics.bush Subject: Re: UFO "October Surprise" and USA TAKEOVER?! Message-ID: <1992Aug9.193609.14566@husc3.harvard.edu> Date: 9 Aug 92 23:36:08 GMT Article-I.D.: husc3.1992Aug9.193609.14566 References: <1992Aug1.073525.15555@hubcap.clemson.edu> <15ka6sINNg4q@agate.berkeley.edu> <1992Aug4.034059.10005@mksol.dseg.ti.com> Organization: Harvard University Science Center Lines: 12 Nntp-Posting-Host: husc8.harvard.edu >Except, of course, for the constantly demonstrated fact that the >problem isn't the guns OR their availability -- the problem is the >loose nuts behind the trigger. They're going to exist whether you >allow guns or not, and if you don't allow guns they'll just use cars, >bottles full of gasoline, etc. > >Fred.McCall@dseg.ti.com - I don't speak for others and they don't speak for me. You seem to overlook the fact that it's a lot harder to walk into a public place while trying to conceal a flaming bottle of gasoline inside your coat (although a car might just be possible...) ...Jean-Marc Rocher Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!thad From: thad@cup.portal.com (Thad P Floryan) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Ley Lines Message-ID: <63740@cup.portal.com> Date: Sun, 9 Aug 92 16:50:04 PDT Organization: The Portal System (TM) References: <1992Aug5.174301.2719@random.ccs.northeastern.edu> <63466@cup.portal.com> <+xxm-8-@lynx.unm.edu> <63579@cup.portal.com> <63704@cup.portal.com> Lines: 25 In article <63704@cup.portal.com> John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes: | [...] | different levels of noytiousness and some people, different levels of | [...] | over them there was a sense of anticipation, and they felt noytiousness | [...] ``noytiousness''? What does that word mean? The closest I could find in any dictionary are: `` noyade: (French) execution by drowning, especially as practiced during the Reign of Terror (1793-94) in Nantes, France.'' `` noxious: causing, or tending to cause, injury to health or morals; pernicious. See synonyms under BAD, INIMICAL, NOISOME, PERNICIOUS.'' `` novitious: recently invented, new.'' Assuming you may have shifted your hands on the keyboard, "noytiousness" might become "bitriousness" which still doesn't seem right! :-) Thad Floryan [ thad@cup.portal.com ] Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!nntp1.radiomail.net!portal!cup.portal.com!thad From: thad@cup.portal.com (Thad P Floryan) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Ley Lines Message-ID: <63741@cup.portal.com> Date: Sun, 9 Aug 92 17:08:08 PDT Organization: The Portal System (TM) References: <63574@cup.portal.com> <63713@cup.portal.com> <3y1mttb.payner@netcom.com> Lines: 35 In article <3y1mttb.payner@netcom.com> payner@netcom.com (Rich Payne) writes: | In article <63713@cup.portal.com> thad@cup.portal.com (Thad P Floryan) writes : | >[...] | >And, BTW, a "simple" magnetic field will NOT erase computer magnetic media. | >I delight in showing people how I can lift a floppy disk off the table using | >a humongous magnet I keep in my garage, and then free/pry the disk from the | >magnet and still read it without error in a floppy drive. | | I'm aware of this. So why is it that you stated that magnetic media were | read/written to with either EM fields of electric fields? I forget which | you posted, and you edited it out. I beg your pardon. Just checked the original article, and the ONLY place where either "computer" OR "media" appears is in the single sentence (flagged): `` [...] lines affecting the health of animals and humans. Really intense magnetic fields have caused people to perceive ("see") flashes of light and random splotches of color. Directed microwaves are ===> used for cooking! Computer magnetic media are erasable by alternating ===> electro-magnetic fields. The old US Embassy in Moscow was alleged to have been irradiated by [...] '' You're on Netcom (and I also have an account there (but under one of my companies' names)): news articles don't expire at Netcom for at least 2 weeks, so you can simply "cd /usr/spool/news/alt/alien/visitors ; grep -n magnetic *" and peruse the original yourself! :-) Thad Floryan [ thad@cup.portal.com ] Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sdd.hp.com!wupost!uunet!munnari.oz.au!bunyip.cc.uq.oz.au!uqcspe!cs.uq.oz.au!rhys From: rhys@cs.uq.oz.au (Rhys Weatherley) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Unidentified Flying Objects Message-ID: <9753@uqcspe.cs.uq.oz.au> Date: 10 Aug 92 01:04:02 GMT References: Sender: news@cs.uq.oz.au Reply-To: rhys@cs.uq.oz.au Lines: 39 In ken@uxc.cso.uiuc.edu (Ken Primer) writes: > Ok I'm new to this group so maybe this has been brought up before. Repeatedly. > Do people realize that UFO stands for unidentified flying object? Yes. >Why are so many people convinced that these are the craft of alien beings? It makes for better news in the National Enquirer. No one wants to read YALBS (Yet Another Lightning Ball Story :-) - more papers are sold with stories about aliens. >Yes, as you can guess, I'm a skeptic. But since my knowledge is not >enough to even begin to explain some of these sightings, I call them >UFO's. Why can't UFO "experts" accept this? In my experience, more time is wasted haggling over "my definition of UFO is better than yours" than actually investigating the sightings. Many UFO researchers do indeed accept the "proper" definition. It's the fringe elements and the mass media that have muddied the waters. A similar problem exists with the term "hacker". The mass media have misused it so long to refer to "crackers" that it's almost impossible to convince the public of the correct usage. Maybe it's time some new terms were adopted here and elsewhere, and the public educated in their use. Cheers, Rhys. -- Rhys Weatherley, University of Queensland, Australia. rhys@cs.uq.oz.au "I'm a FAQ nut - what's your problem?" Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!munnari.oz.au!bunyip.cc.uq.oz.au!uqcspe!cs.uq.oz.au!rhys From: rhys@cs.uq.oz.au (Rhys Weatherley) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Jeffrey Papineau and John Winston Message-ID: <9754@uqcspe.cs.uq.oz.au> Date: 10 Aug 92 01:25:25 GMT References: <63490@cup.portal.com> <63513@cup.portal.com> Sender: news@cs.uq.oz.au Reply-To: rhys@cs.uq.oz.au Lines: 15 In <63513@cup.portal.com> and elsewhere Jeffrey_-_Papineau@cup.portal.com writes many things. Is it just me, or does Jeffrey Papineau look like a (more long-winded) version of John Winston? Out of this world claims and pretty non-existent quoting of previous posts. They are both at cup.portal.com too. Kinda suspicious what? Then again, could just be a coincidence. Jeffrey? John? Care to comment? For the record, I reckon John is having us on, and having a great laugh at our expense. OK John, you can stop now - you've been found out. :-) Rhys. -- Rhys Weatherley, University of Queensland, Australia. rhys@cs.uq.oz.au "I'm a FAQ nut - what's your problem?" Xref: icaen alt.alien.visitors:8172 alt.conspiracy:17564 alt.activism:30807 misc.headlines:23364 alt.politics.bush:1932 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!wupost!waikato.ac.nz!aukuni.ac.nz!kcbbs!status!jonc Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy,alt.activism,misc.headlines,alt.politics.bush Subject: Re: guns and criminals Message-ID: From: jonc@status.gen.nz (Jon Clarke) Date: Sun, 09 Aug 92 10:09:06 GMT References: <1992Aug5.183928.8223@ke4zv.uucp> Organization: Z*NET Global News Gateway in Auckland New Zealand Lines: 27 > In article <1992Aug4.015333.21023@s1.gov> lip@s1.gov (Loren I. Petrich) write > > > > My preference is for defense rather than offense. If one is You may be interested in the gun laws here in NZL. 1/ You fill out an application form 2/ The police run a complete check on you 3/ If the check proves OK 4/ You must attend a mountain safety lecture (2 hours) 5/ Take an exam (multi choice, 30 question, must get 28 out of 30) 6/ If you pass you take the exam certficate to the police who issue you with a gun permit. 3a/ If you do not pass the police check or mountain saftey exam you can not get a gun permit. There are special classes of permit from rifle to pistol to collector. The first and most common is for the shotgun and rifle type weapons (non automatic). All this just to be able to own a weapon. Then all the laws come into it _after_ you get your permit. I might add New Zealanders are better off than our Australian cousins. (any occer care to comment) Xref: icaen alt.alien.visitors:8173 alt.conspiracy:17565 alt.activism:30809 misc.headlines:23366 alt.politics.bush:1934 Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy,alt.activism,misc.headlines,alt.politics.bush Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!munnari.oz.au!newsroom.utas.edu.au!cam!esk!rhoge1 From: rhoge1@esk.compserv.utas.edu.au (Robin Hoge) Subject: Re: guns and criminals Message-ID: <1992Aug10.035048.27672@cam.compserv.utas.edu.au> Sender: news@cam.compserv.utas.edu.au Organization: University of Tasmania at Launceston References: <1992Aug5.183928.8223@ke4zv.uucp> Date: Mon, 10 Aug 92 03:50:48 GMT Lines: 36 Well, I have rifle, that I have been using for four years on our farm for hunting animals like rabbits, possum, kangaroo, and their cousins. I think that here in Australia it is a good idea to have gun laws, but it is only going to keep track of a percentage of the gun owners. I won't bother to register my rifle, because I will always get bullets from my farm neighbors and any other rifle I might want to buy I can buy from any number of people. And they too will not bother to register. The main fear, I feel, would be that if they DO register, and the rifles DO go missing, and someone gets shot and the rifle turns up again, then you're in deep shit. I don't have any form of gun license, but in the past four years I've owned semi automatic rifles, shotguns, and hand guns, but they come and go as fast as bullets. Here it is essential to have a license for handguns, but the way they pop up all the time, I don't think that it's worth getting a license. But hopefully most people do get a license, especially city folk. They shouldn't even have guns. ASnd if they do, then they should also have a farm where to keep such things, but if they're away and someone breaks in an takes the gun, shoots someone, and then returns it... well... Myself, well I will not register any of my guns, because I would have to continuously go back and re-register a new gun/rifle, so it's just too much hassle. Did you know that silencers for rifles are illegal here? I've got one, I don't care if the whole world knows, I can just as easily not have one. We use silencers on the properties when we're on foot. Makes sence though. On an average, I'd say we get 80% more animals than without the silencers. The only thing about them is they are home-made and exspensive; A$80.00. I think I've said most of what I was going to say. -- ()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()() ))##r#h#o#g#e#1#@#e#s#k#.#c#o#m#p#s#e#r#v#.#u#t#a#s#.#e#d#u#.#a#u###(( ))# I don't care what country you're from... You're still human. #(( ()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()() Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!wupost!darwin.sura.net!nntp.msstate.edu!Isis.MsState.Edu!cee1 From: cee1@ra.msstate.edu (Charles Evans) Subject: New LITE Beer Commercial with aliens Message-ID: Organization: Mississippi State University Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1992 04:11:24 GMT Lines: 17 Well looks like more alien-humor or more desensatizing by the media.. but tonight toward the end of the Olympics, I saw a semi-shocking commercial, Lite Beer has a commericial with the aliens-coming and them all dancing in a circle drinking beer.. they look like greys glowing white, fluorescent or whatever, I hate those faces, anyway, there were 2 dozen or so dancing around, then it ended up with a mockery of the wheat circles with the Lite Beer logo imprinted in a wheat field .. as like wheat circles... anyone seen this one.. oh boy oh boy chucj -- Charles E. Evans / o / Whereforeseeingwealsoarecompassedabout cee1@ra.msstate.edu / ./|\ / withsogreatacloudofwitnesses,letuslayaside / /|' / everyweight,andthesindothsoeasilybesetus, cee1@msstate.bitnet / , ' / andletusRUNwithpatiencetheracethatissetB4us. Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!cs.utexas.edu!wupost!csus.edu!netcom.com!payner From: payner@netcom.com (Rich Payne) Subject: Re: Ley Lines Message-ID: Date: Mon, 10 Aug 92 03:54:33 GMT Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest) References: <63713@cup.portal.com> <3y1mttb.payner@netcom.com> <63741@cup.portal.com> Lines: 49 In article <63741@cup.portal.com> thad@cup.portal.com (Thad P Floryan) writes: >In article <3y1mttb.payner@netcom.com> payner@netcom.com (Rich Payne) writes: > >| In article <63713@cup.portal.com> thad@cup.portal.com (Thad P Floryan) writes >: >| >[...] >| >And, BTW, a "simple" magnetic field will NOT erase computer magnetic media. >| >I delight in showing people how I can lift a floppy disk off the table using >| >a humongous magnet I keep in my garage, and then free/pry the disk from the >| >magnet and still read it without error in a floppy drive. >| >| I'm aware of this. So why is it that you stated that magnetic media were >| read/written to with either EM fields of electric fields? I forget which >| you posted, and you edited it out. > >I beg your pardon. Just checked the original article, and the ONLY place where >either "computer" OR "media" appears is in the single sentence (flagged): > >`` [...] > lines affecting the health of animals and humans. > > Really intense magnetic fields have caused people to perceive ("see") > flashes of light and random splotches of color. Directed microwaves are >===> used for cooking! Computer magnetic media are erasable by alternating >===> electro-magnetic fields. OK, what's the problem? You said the magnetic media are erased by EM fields. > The old US Embassy in Moscow was alleged to have been irradiated by > [...] >'' > >You're on Netcom (and I also have an account there (but under one of my >companies' names)): news articles don't expire at Netcom for at least 2 weeks, >so you can simply "cd /usr/spool/news/alt/alien/visitors ; grep -n magnetic *" >and peruse the original yourself! :-) Hmm, I'd just edit the .newsrc. But as I am having a severe line noise problem right now, I am having a great deal of difficulty just reading news. I risk a dropped carrier when I respond. And it still does not seem to be a major point. >Thad Floryan [ thad@cup.portal.com ] Rich payner@netcom.com Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:11130 alt.alien.visitors:8176 sci.skeptic:28588 Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!coplex!disk!sparks From: sparks@disk.uucp (John Sparks) Subject: Re: Saga of the Family of Light I - Pleiadians13 Message-ID: <1992Aug10.011008.16621@disk.uucp> Organization: Digital Information Systems of KY References: <63422@cup.portal.com> <1992Aug5.175403.2821@random.ccs.northeastern.edu> <63596@cup.portal.com> Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1992 01:10:08 GMT Lines: 21 Don_-_Showen@cup.portal.com writes: >RA says >>This is silly. I mean, go on all you want about 'light filaments' in DNA. >>But don't tell me DNA has three strands. It just makes you sound stupid. ^^^^^^ >Don't be concerned RA the Family of Light is less than 2% of the population. So ^^^^^^^^^^^ The ratio seems about right. At least now we know what makes a small part of the population wacko: they are mutants. That third strand must be a real bummer, eh? What with an extra chromosome creating Down's syndrome, just think what a whole strand of DNA could do to ya. -- John Sparks |"Help Fight Continental Drift!"| (502)957-4200 2400 BPS D.I.S.K. Management| Email: sparks@disk.UUCP | 6 lines, public access unix | uunet!coplex!disk!sparks | *Online Games*Usenet*Email*Chatting*Downloads*Supporting all computers* Xref: icaen alt.sex:73429 talk.politics.guns:37708 alt.alien.visitors:8177 alt.postmodern:3767 alt.good.news:1354 alt.party:701 alt.flame:43108 misc.test:18398 alt.fan.warlord:6123 rec.pets.dogs:18951 alt.slack:3781 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!sun-barr!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!ringer!lonestar.utsa.edu!dlaro From: dlaro@lonestar.utsa.edu (David O. Laro) Newsgroups: alt.sex,talk.politics.guns,alt.alien.visitors,alt.postmodern,alt.good.news,alt.party,alt.flame,misc.test,alt.fan.warlord,rec.pets.dogs,alt.slack Subject: Re: The last word! Message-ID: <1992Aug10.053133.12444@ringer.cs.utsa.edu> Date: 10 Aug 92 05:31:33 GMT References: <1992Aug8.052946.14301@mintaka.lcs.mit.edu> Sender: news@ringer.cs.utsa.edu Organization: University of Texas at San Antonio Lines: 15 Nntp-Posting-Host: lonestar.utsa.edu In article <1992Aug8.052946.14301@mintaka.lcs.mit.edu> jrsmith@hal.gnu.ai.mit.edu (J. R. Smith III) writes: >Dave I agree about confiscating all the guns being okay!!! This should put >this matter to rest as any idiot can see it's right!! > > -- the Hefty Dude! I'll wager you're NOT married... For anybody to assume he's going to have "the last word!" on any subject, let alone the confiscation of guns, is absolute lunacy. Not as long as "any i idiot" thinks he can confiscate MY gun. I'm not sure which side of the question you support due to the limited data I saw in your post. Just want to make sure you're not getting your finger on the scale, especially after I saw your sig::-) "the he Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!wupost!sdd.hp.com!nigel.msen.com!yale.edu!ira.uka.de!rz.uni-karlsruhe.de!stepsun.uni-kl.de!sun.rhrk.uni-kl.de!efes.physik.uni-kl.de!kring From: kring@efes.physik.uni-kl.de (Thomas Kettenring) Subject: Re: what does _-_ mean? Message-ID: <1992Aug9.215244.16995@rhrk.uni-kl.de> Sender: news@rhrk.uni-kl.de Organization: FB Physik, Universitaet Kaiserslautern, Germany References: Date: Sun, 9 Aug 1992 21:52:44 GMT Lines: 19 In article , ken@uxc.cso.uiuc.edu (Ken Primer) writes: > I've noticed several people in this group have a _-_ in their name. >What does this mean? That's a conspiracy of network administrators. Those people who post the most articles get a "_-_" between first and last name, and the admins get smaller kill files containing the line /_-_/:j instead of /John_-_Winston/:j /Don_-_Showen/:j /Jeffrey_-_Papineau/:j -- --------------thomas kettenring, 2 dan, kaiserslautern, germany--------------- Definition: Idiot-proof - you are idiot-proof when you NEVER flame anybody. Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:11131 alt.alien.visitors:8179 sci.skeptic:28593 Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!usc!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!caen!uvaarpa!murdoch!Turing.ORG!lfoard From: lfoard@Turing.ORG (Lawrence C. Foard) Subject: Re: Saga of the Family of Light I - Pleiadians13 Message-ID: <1992Aug10.062036.8642@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU> Sender: usenet@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU Organization: The Turing Project, Charlottesville Virginia. References: <63422@cup.portal.com> <1992Aug5.175403.2821@random.ccs.northeastern.edu> <63596@cup.portal.com> Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1992 06:20:36 GMT Lines: 51 In article <63596@cup.portal.com> Don_-_Showen@cup.portal.com writes: >RA says > >>This is silly. I mean, go on all you want about 'light filaments' in DNA. >>But don't tell me DNA has three strands. It just makes you sound stupid. > >Don't be concerned RA the Family of Light is less than 2% of the population. So >of course YOUR DNA is going nowhere. Starting to sound like an X-tian evangelist already :-) >People have the choice to follow their >genetic program or to make the spiritual choice of activating their DNA through >consciousness and choosing ones reality. Forget activating your DNA wolf down some magic mushrooms :-) >I used to think I could convince >people to make the spiritual choice but I have learned from this net that most >deny the existence of their spirit (it would sound stupid). You make the same mistake the fundementalists Christians do, you preach some wonderful and unbelievable message, you then wonder why no one believed you and talk about how wonderful it is rather than providing evidence. If I went in for every "to good to be true" deal I'd be completely broke, you have to insist on evidence. >So I can see how >one who is denying the existence of their spirit would not be able to conceive >of >being able to create their own reality and spiritually program their own DNA. It depends how you define spirit, if you define it as conciousness then I don't deny that spirits exist, I just don't believe they can exist seperately from matter, just as a painting can't exist without the paint. >So RA all of what I have to say on this net is going to sound stupid to you. >Why >don't you just put my name in your kill file so you will not be bothered by all >these stupid, unbelievable ideas. Or why not show us some of this triple stranded DNA? Its possible that someone has come from another star and inplanted triple stranded DNA in people, its also possible that there are cute bunnies jumping on the other side of the moon. In either case I want to see some evidence. -- >>Unix/C Contract worker available 5 years C/unix work experience<< ______ Available for Telecommuting/Travel and contracts on the T Line \ / in the Boston MA area. Send me e-mail for a copy of my Resume. \ / -- VWIS 508-793-9568 (2400 baud), Linux support BBS.-- \/ Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!cleveland.Freenet.Edu!bt479 From: bt479@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Gary Stollman) Subject: Re: Gary Stollman where are you? Message-ID: <1992Aug10.062529.3131@usenet.ins.cwru.edu> Sender: news@usenet.ins.cwru.edu Nntp-Posting-Host: cwns1.ins.cwru.edu Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio, (USA) Date: Mon, 10 Aug 92 06:25:29 GMT Lines: 12 I am still here, unfortunately for the clones...This message didn't make it to my Bluemoon account yet...So I took the liberty of writing from here...Don't expect to ever hear me mention any hospitals again, as they are taking a fall!! Gary Stollman -- Gary Stollman GEnie:G.STOLLMAN Internet:garys@bluemoon.rn.com Don't think I'm crazy cause I know twenty computer languages and have stolen more time on computers for free than you know about!! Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!wupost!darwin.sura.net!Sirius.dfn.de!math.fu-berlin.de!news.uni-stuttgart.de!rz.uni-karlsruhe.de!stepsun.uni-kl.de!sun.rhrk.uni-kl.de!efes.physik.uni-kl.de!kring From: kring@efes.physik.uni-kl.de (Thomas Kettenring) Subject: Re: Disinformation Agents at Work? Message-ID: <1992Aug9.233143.24227@rhrk.uni-kl.de> Keywords: UFO disinformation Sender: news@rhrk.uni-kl.de Organization: FB Physik, Universitaet Kaiserslautern, Germany References: <1tymt#-.vere@netcom.com> <1992Aug7.182216.6460@pony.Ingres.COM> Date: Sun, 9 Aug 1992 23:31:43 GMT Lines: 10 In article , vere@netcom.com (Steven Vere) writes: > Your reply is consistent with my hypothesis that disinformation agents >are polluting the information stream in alt.alien.visitors. As any other reply would have been. It's impossible to behave in a way so that a paranoid will NOT be confirmed in his conspiracy theories. -- --------------thomas kettenring, 2 dan, kaiserslautern, germany--------------- Definition: Idiot-proof - you are idiot-proof when you NEVER flame anybody. Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!cis.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!agate!rsoft!mindlink!a3810 From: Jeremy_Reimer@mindlink.bc.ca (Jeremy Reimer) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Crop Circles? Message-ID: <14145@mindlink.bc.ca> Date: 10 Aug 92 07:31:59 GMT Organization: MIND LINK! - British Columbia, Canada Distribution: world Lines: 43 > Robert Salesas writes: > > Msg-ID: <14122@mindlink.bc.ca> > Posted: 9 Aug 92 07:42:03 GMT > > > I imagine that by saying "skeptical people in al.alien didn't believe them" > you > are implying that these "older guys" are the cause of crop circles. Since > crop > circles appear around the world, all the time, often in multiple places at > the > same time, then these "older guys" must be zipping around the world making > fake > circles. Haven't you ever heard of the phenomena of "copycat crimes?" If two "older guys" can fake a crop circle, what prevents other people from faking crop circles? There's no reason why other people might be BETTER at faking crop circles than these two. I for one would LOVE to fake a crop circle, and if I ever get a chance to, I will. It would be interesting to see if any UFOlogists would be able to tell if it was fake or not. Just because TWO people were caught (or confessed) doesn't mean that nobody else is doing this who HASN'T been caught. Lister: "Rimmer, ALIENS used our bog roll?" Rimmer: "Just because they're aliens doesn't mean they don't have to go to the little boy's room. Only they probably do something 'weird' and 'alien-esque' like it comes out of the top of their heads or something." Lister: "Well, I wouldn't like to get caught behind one of these suckers in a cinema!" - Red Dwarf -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Just when you thought| ==> Jeremy_Reimer@mindlink.bc.ca <== it was safe... | That's SUNNY Vancouver, British Columbia, *CANADA*!! ---------------------+------------------------------------------------------ He's BACK! The Car, | George: Blackadder! What time is it!? The Cat, The Lunatic,| Edmund: Thre Xref: icaen alt.alien.visitors:8183 alt.conspiracy:17570 alt.activism:30820 sci.skeptic:28594 misc.headlines:23370 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!pipex!unipalm!uknet!warwick!coventry!ccx018 From: ccx018@cch.coventry.ac.uk (Leslie Griffiths (Griff)) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy,alt.activism,sci.skeptic,misc.headlines,alt.po Subject: Re: guns and criminals Message-ID: Date: 10 Aug 92 07:20:56 GMT References: Sender: news@cck.coventry.ac.uk (news user) Organization: Coventry University Lines: 33 Nntp-Posting-Host: cc_sysh In article rj@incam.new-orleans.la.us (Ray Jones) writes: >ccx018@cch.coventry.ac.uk (Leslie Griffiths (Griff)) writes: > >> >In article <1992Aug4.015333.21023@s1.gov> lip@s1.gov (Loren I. Petrich) writ >> >> And one should learn ways of self-defense using one's own >> >>body, so one can deal with assailants not equipped with guns. >> >> I've...thought that...best form of self-defense is to run away. Not >> always practicable of course, but being fit-enough to leg it has its >> advantages. >> // > 1. Everyone is not capable of defending theirselves with > their body. Some people are not physically fit enough > and still others are handicapped. > 2. As for running away, try out-running a bullet. Lots of > luck. Everyone is not capable of running away anyway > due to the same reasons previously mentioned. > >Ray Jones Read the qualifier - 'not always practicable'. It was these situations, and all the others that people have mentioned, that the clause referred to. The point I was making was that people rarely seem to consider this a possible option. I still consider it the best form of self-defense. Though of course we don't have much of a problem with bullets here. Cheers -- Griff \\ ccx018@uk.ac.cov ^^^^^ :-= ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ // Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!usc!sdd.hp.com!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!news.claremont.edu!nntp-server.caltech.edu!keith From: keith@cco.caltech.edu (Keith Allan Schneider) Subject: Re: Crop Circles? Message-ID: <1992Aug10.070053.22751@cco.caltech.edu> Sender: news@cco.caltech.edu Nntp-Posting-Host: jomby Organization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena References: <1992Aug7.181652.26139@acd4.acd.com> <1992Aug8.065811.3941@cco.caltech.edu> <3246@bcstec.ca.boeing.com> Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1992 07:00:53 GMT Lines: 55 kuryakin@bcstec.ca.boeing.com (Rick Pavek) writes: >In article <1992Aug8.065811.3941@cco.caltech.edu> keith@cco.caltech.edu (Keith Allan Schneider) writes: >> >>Now wait a minute. Didn't some guys admit to doing all of those crop circles? >>It was a group of older guys. They took a 2x4 with some ropes and smashed the >>crops with their foot on the board... >> >Keith, investigations into the claims of the 'confessing hoaxters' >revealed that they were likely paid to 'confess' by Her Majesties' >government. >While they may have made some of them, the ones they make are clearly >different from the 'other' variety, primarily in their version the >stalks are broked by the weight and the boards. In the legitimate >versions the stalks were bent at the base and showed evidence of >microwave heating. So, you feel that although a method has been shown to create these circles, the only way that they could have been formed is by some type of advanced aircraft? >Also, they didn't show any airline ticket stubs for repeated visits to >North America or Australia. If they could do it, why not others like them? >Further, they didn't give any evidence that showed them actually making >a particular circle, they merely demonstrated how they were supposed >to have made them and claimed that they had. They also didn't explain What? When they confessed, they made a circle for the reporters, just like the others. >how they were able to do this in the dark, in the fog. What better time to do it than when no one will catch you. I can walk around in the dark and fog; can't you? >Also, there have been crop circles since, and not a single word has >been heard from the confessors... at least that is what I have gleaned >from the net and I'll leave it to others to supply details. Now tha teveryone knows how to do it, it is not surprising that there are others. I doubt that any aliens or government people would have created such circles. There is no reason for it. Why land in the middle of crops, making a stange formation that will get people suspicious when you could easily land in some other place that would leave no such "evidence." Come on, there is much more convicing evidence than these hozx formations. keith Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!usc!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!news.claremont.edu!nntp-server.caltech.edu!keith From: keith@cco.caltech.edu (Keith Allan Schneider) Subject: Re: Crop Circles? Message-ID: <1992Aug10.070605.22969@cco.caltech.edu> Sender: news@cco.caltech.edu Nntp-Posting-Host: jomby Organization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena References: <14122@mindlink.bc.ca> Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1992 07:06:05 GMT Lines: 48 Robert_Salesas@mindlink.bc.ca (Robert Salesas) writes: >> Keith Allan Schneider writes: >> >> Msg-ID: <1992Aug9.022331.9288@cco.caltech.edu> >> Posted: Sun, 9 Aug 1992 02:23:31 >> >> Org. : California Institute of Technology, Pasadena >> >> Robert_Salesas@mindlink.bc.ca (Robert Salesas) writes: >> >> >> Keith Allan Schneider writes: >> >> >> >> Now wait a minute. Didn't some guys admit to doing all of those crop >> >> circles? >> >> It was a group of older guys. They took a 2x4 with some ropes and smashed >> >> the >> >> crops with their foot on the board... >> >> >> >> Of course, I assume that all of the skeptical people in alt.alien didn't >> >> believe them. >> >> >> >> keith >> >> >Of course. I imagine you believe these couple of "older guys" fly around >> the >> >world at the speed of light making fake crop circles in fast forward? >> >> Who said anything about flying around the world? >> >> keith >I imagine that by saying "skeptical people in al.alien didn't believe them" you >are implying that these "older guys" are the cause of crop circles. Since crop >circles appear around the world, all the time, often in multiple places at the >same time, then these "older guys" must be zipping around the world making fake >circles. >Rob If these guys can make such formations, then I am sure that there are other hoaxsters around the world that can do the same. Often in science, when there are two theories to explain the same phenomenon, the simpler is adopted unless evidence leads to the other. I think two guys with a board is a much simple theory than alien spacecraft. keith Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!pacific.mps.ohio-state.edu!ohstpy!vancleef From: vancleef@ohstpy.mps.ohio-state.edu Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Nazi plots (was Re: Gulf Breeze Six In The News Again) Message-ID: <13270.2a85f20e@ohstpy.mps.ohio-state.edu> Date: 10 Aug 92 04:35:26 EDT References: <63496@cup.portal.com> <1992Aug6.150936.19385@news.eng.convex.com> <1992Aug7.012803.11738@nuchat.sccsi.com> Lines: 43 In article , nelson_p@apollo.hp.com (Peter Nelson) writes: > In article <1992Aug7.012803.11738@nuchat.sccsi.com> seven@nuchat.sccsi.com (David Paulsen) writes: >>swarren@convex.com (Steve Warren) writes: >>> >>>As far as Nazi plots to arrest everyone, it's not going to happen unless >>>a lot of other things happen first. Americans are too independant. There >>>has to be a long-term focused propoganda campaign before a society like >>>ours will buy into something like that (not saying we are immune - just >>>that the bad guys have their work cut out for them if there really is >>>some kind of conspiracy like this). >> >>Look around you. In just a few short years, the War On Drugs has desensitized >>us to things that would have made us scream "Police state!" before. > > > Oh, ca-ca! Read some history. The world didn't begin in 1970. > > In my parents' generation great works of literature such as > _Ulysses_ were banned. The Hayes Commission *ruled* Hollywood > protecting the "public morality". An employer could fire you > for living with someone you weren't married to. Blacks in many > states had to attend separate schools, drink from separate > fountains, etc. If the police beat you up there was no commission > or organization to complain to, etc, etc . . . > > Compared to the 1930's-1950's we're living in a #$%^! civil liber- > tarian utopia. Things would have to get a LOT worse just to get > as bad as they were then. > > > ---peter > > So its Ok to step backwards. Un-huh, yeah, right... Keep kissing ass at HP peter, you'll go far in life, maybe even get promoted... -Garrett Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!mcsun!uknet!warwick!mrccrc!mrccrc!sgamble From: sgamble@crc.ac.uk (Steve Gamble x3293) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Shared databases, instrumentation, plausibility, etc. Message-ID: <1992Aug10.103912.7112@crc.ac.uk> Date: 10 Aug 92 10:39:12 GMT References: <63575@cup.portal.com> Sender: news@crc.ac.uk Reply-To: sgamble@crc.ac.uk (Steve Gamble x3293) Organization: MRC Human Genome Mapping Project Resource Centre, Harrow, UK Lines: 32 Nntp-Posting-Host: germanium In article <63575@cup.portal.com>, thad@cup.portal.com (Thad P Floryan) writes: > Just some thoughts to re-focus this group along the lines of its charter. > > Do UFO researchers world-wide "share" their case databases? > > Are such databases available for, say, anonymous ftp, or are they mostly > held privately only to appear in copyrighted published (for sale) works? > {rest of message deleted} > Thad Floryan [ thad@cup.portal.com ] There are attempts to share case reports amongst researchers. The exchange of information between groups on a global basis is part of the objectives of the International Committee for UFO Research (ICUR). ICUR is a kind of UFOlogical United Nations. However due to all the organisations involved being of an amateur nature and infrequency of meetings ICUR has had thus far little impact. I am not aware of any databases being available by ftp. Very few UFO researchers seem to be connected to networks. There is some exchange of material between researchers on some of the closed conferences on Paranet. Presenting information for public access is time consuming, whilst you are running things for public access you are not doing research. Steve. -- (Disclaimer: These are not my employer's opinions, they may not even be mine!) Steve Gamble, Computing Services, Clinical Research Centre and Human Genome Mapping Project Resource Centre, Watford Road, Harrow, Middlesex, HA1 3UJ, UK. Phone: +44 81 869 3293 JANET: s.gamble@uk.ac.crc INTERNET: s.gamble@crc.ac.uk Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!mcsun!uknet!warwick!mrccrc!mrccrc!sgamble From: sgamble@crc.ac.uk (Steve Gamble x3293) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Unidentified Flying Objects Message-ID: <1992Aug10.105258.7184@crc.ac.uk> Date: 10 Aug 92 10:52:58 GMT References: Sender: news@crc.ac.uk Reply-To: sgamble@crc.ac.uk (Steve Gamble x3293) Organization: MRC Human Genome Mapping Project Resource Centre, Harrow, UK Lines: 42 Nntp-Posting-Host: germanium In article , ken@uxc.cso.uiuc.edu (Ken Primer) writes: > > Ok I'm new to this group so maybe this has been brought up before. > > Do people realize that UFO stands for unidentified flying object? This > being an object, which is flying, which noone can identify. Why are so > many people convinced that these are the craft of alien beings? > > Yes, as you can guess, I'm a skeptic. But since my knowledge is not > enough to even begin to explain some of these sightings, I call them > UFO's. Why can't UFO "experts" accept this? > You seem to be confusing UFO 'experts' with the general public. In 1979 there was a large conference in London attended by many of the leading UFOlogist from around the world. Some 40 different organisations were represented. This included Dr Allan Hynek and Dr Leo Sprinkle. The primary aim of the conference was to establish an organisation to formulate standard definitions and encourage data exchange. This organisation was the International Committee for UFO Research. After all the discussions it was agreed that the key factor was the UFO report. This was a report by one or more persons of something in the sky, or thought by the reportee to be capable of flight, which they could not identify and felt sufficiently strange that they made a report. The key words are 'not identify'(i.e. Unidentified), 'capable of flight' (i.e. Flying) and 'something' (?Object). The UFO was defined as the stimulus for the UFO Report. It was pointed out that UFOlogists work with UFO reports and UFO reporters, not with UFO's. At least at that point CUFOS/APRO/BUFORA/GEPAN/CISU/SOBEPS/Contact UK/ Project URD/BFSB and about a dozen other organisations were agreed that a UFO was nothing more than Unidentified Flying and Object. Steve -- (Disclaimer: These are not my employer's opinions, they may not even be mine!) Steve Gamble, Computing Services, Clinical Research Centre and Human Genome Mapping Project Resource Centre, Watford Road, Harrow, Middlesex, HA1 3UJ, UK. Phone: +44 81 869 3293 JANET: s.gamble@uk.ac.crc INTERNET: s.gamble@crc.ac.uk Xref: icaen alt.alien.visitors:8189 sci.skeptic:28598 alt.paranormal:5591 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!dtix!darwin.sura.net!jvnc.net!glassboro.edu!cass8806 From: cass8806@elan.glassboro.edu (KYLE CASSIDY) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic,alt.paranormal Subject: Re: physical evidence Message-ID: Date: 10 Aug 92 12:16:21 GMT References: <1992Aug9.015509.12070@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> Sender: news@gboro.glassboro.edu (USENET News System) Organization: Glassboro State College, Glassboro, NJ Lines: 9 Nntp-Posting-Host: bizlab210.glassboro.edu In article <1992Aug9.015509.12070@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> gburton@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Garland O Burton) writes: >there are folks whom i tell of the abduction/eti/ufo phenom... >they say "show us the physical evidence." >can anyone suggest any? capture an alien. Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!decwrl!pa.dec.com!nntpd2.cxo.dec.com!nntpd.lkg.dec.com!sousa.ltn.dec.com!hawk1.enet.dec.com!bottom From: bottom@hawk1.enet.dec.com Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: THE CLINTONS ARE COMING,THE CLINTONS ARE COMING Message-ID: <1484@sousa.ltn.dec.com> Date: 10 Aug 92 12:00:06 GMT References: <1992Aug8.095901.1812@usenet.ins.cwru.edu> Sender: newsa@sousa.ltn.dec.com Reply-To: hedron::daveb Organization: ASO IM operations Lines: 23 re: >THE CLINTONS ARE COMING, THE CLINTONS ARE COMING, THE CLINTONS ARE COMING >After all that is said and done if you give absolute power to the democratic >party whom already controls congress,you may find yourself saying >" Give me liberty or give me death ",Patric Henny, It's clear that the >Democratic Party intends to be power monsters and only one super human >person can save the world from dictatorship in a free land. vote REPUBLICAN! Yeah I know let's elect a good guy like the ex-head of the CIA and most likely a rich criminal from Texas (again). -- /dave who wouldn't vote for either one +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | ESP, Steinberger, Fender, Kitty Hawk, Rivera, Rocktron, Alesis, Tascam, | | Metaltronix, EMG, Semour Duncan, D'Addario rock on! | | Midi rack pukes do it with 16 channels | | You make my life and times a book of bluesy Saturdays... | +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!wupost!sdd.hp.com!apollo.hp.com!netnews From: nelson_p@apollo.hp.com (Peter Nelson) Subject: Re: Nazi plots (was Re: Gulf Breeze Six In The News Again) Sender: usenet@apollo.hp.com (Usenet News) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1992 13:24:08 GMT References: <1992Aug7.012803.11738@nuchat.sccsi.com> <13270.2a85f20e@ohstpy.mps.ohio-state.edu> Nntp-Posting-Host: c.ch.apollo.hp.com Organization: Hewlett-Packard Corporation, Chelmsford, MA Lines: 58 In article <13270.2a85f20e@ohstpy.mps.ohio-state.edu> vancleef@ohstpy.mps.ohio-state.edu writes: >In article , nelson_p@apollo.hp.com (Peter Nelson) writes: >> In article <1992Aug7.012803.11738@nuchat.sccsi.com> seven@nuchat.sccsi.com (David Paulsen) writes: >>>swarren@convex.com (Steve Warren) writes: >>> >>>Look around you. In just a few short years, the War On Drugs has desensitized >>>us to things that would have made us scream "Police state!" before. >> >> >> Oh, ca-ca! Read some history. The world didn't begin in 1970. >> >> In my parents' generation great works of literature such as >> _Ulysses_ were banned. The Hayes Commission *ruled* Hollywood >> protecting the "public morality". An employer could fire you >> for living with someone you weren't married to. Blacks in many >> states had to attend separate schools, drink from separate >> fountains, etc. If the police beat you up there was no commission >> or organization to complain to, etc, etc . . . >> >> Compared to the 1930's-1950's we're living in a #$%^! civil liber- >> tarian utopia. Things would have to get a LOT worse just to get >> as bad as they were then. >> >> >> ---peter >> >> > >So its Ok to step backwards. Un-huh, yeah, right... Are you a native English speaker? Do you have difficulty reading? Where do you find any claim on my part that it is "OK" to step back- wards? I posted specifically to take issue with the previous poster's assertion that "the War On Drugs has desensitized us to things that would have made us scream 'Police state!' before". It is clear that "before" when we had even more of a police state people were not in general screaming "police state". vancleef@ohstpy.mps.ohio-state.edu's posting illustrates a great problem on this newsgroup and others. To address the issues here requires a certain degree of intellectual rigor, a certain capacity for critical analysis. If "vancleef" cannot read a simple, short posting without reaching an erronious conclusion or generating a nonsequitor, how can he hope to read accounts of UFO's critically? How can he hope to understand scientific topics? One of the reasons so many Americans are taken in by nonsense of all sorts is that they never learned to READ and to THINK. >Keep kissing ass at HP peter, you'll go far in life, maybe even get >promoted... In this economy I'm happy to have a job! ---peter Xref: icaen alt.alien.visitors:8192 alt.paranormal:5592 sci.space:33036 Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.paranormal,sci.space Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!mcsun!Germany.EU.net!news.netmbx.de!zelator!leo From: leo@zelator.in-berlin.de (Stefan Hartmann) Subject: Adelaine UFO incident, lab test ? Organization: Puplic-Access-Xenix-System Date: Mon, 10 Aug 92 00:14:55 GMT Message-ID: Summary: UFO Keywords: UFO Lines: 91 Subject: Re: Egg shaped craft down under (3-4 years ago) References: <1992Jul23.131612.26963@ucc.su.OZ.AU> <1992Jul23.144101.29930@odin.corp.sgi.com> <9220611.15056@mulga.cs.mu.OZ.AU> In <9220611.15056@mulga.cs.mu.OZ.AU> curmi@munta.cs.mu.OZ.AU (Jamie Paul CURMI) writes: >rodb@slugo.corp.sgi.com (Rod Beckwith) writes: > >>I also have a question for you folks DOWN UNDER.(That's AUSTRAILIA for >>those of you who don't know where down under is.) I recall that about 3-4 >>years ago that >>an egg shaped craft buzzed a family in a car on some highway down there. As >>I recall there was some material released by the craft & it was retrieved >>by the occupants of the vehicle. The material was brought in for analysis & >>that was the last I ever heard about it. I think a fishing boat offshore >>also reported >>seeing the craft about an hour later. There was quite a bit of news on the >>incident back then, but as most news stories go , the press never really >>follows up. >Hi! >Yeah, I followed this story very closely at the time. It happened just as >Hinch started his new show on 7 (Hinch at 7, on 7 ;-), and Hinch quickly >organised interviews with the entire family. >The car had some really good dents and scrapes on it I believe. >It was reported that the silvery/black material found on and in the car was >analysed...and after an awful long time the lab people said it was dust from >their brakes or something similar due to their brakes. Hmm, this sounds to be a very dull answer. Can't somebody over there check this lab report more precise ? Has somebody on the net the test-results-papers ? How could the brakes deliver some ashes, that it all over the top of the car ? >This whole thing seemed a little weird (not the story, but the analysis & >the way everything went really strange and quiet about this incident). I'm >not trying to imply a coverup (ok...maybe I am \(^_^)/ ), but this >poor family got treated like shit soon after they told their story. >A number of weeks later (possibly months even) the family were once again >interviewed (well, more like a very brief chat). The mother said that since >the incident people had harrased her, and called her a lier, and treated >the whole family pretty badly. She said she wished she had never told >anyone this story, and was visibly upset by the whole affair. That was >the last I heard. >Local Oz Scientists suggested they were hit by lightning, and the usual >scientist type response to anything unusual (oh...it was ball lightning, >a weather balloon, you imagined it all...etc). I don't know what it was.. >it may well have been something quite natural....but the family said the >UFO grabbed the car, and tried to lift it off the ground, and that they >could see a glowing egg shaped thingy, bashing against the roof. >By the way, a number of ufo reports came in from Queensland last night... >a light in the sky, moving from the west (?), hovering above, then moving >back from where it came. One person described it as a flying camp-fire >(that's a new one....hard to imagine....perhaps a Grey Boy Scout :-). >Anyone else hear about this report. >It seems a lot of UFO's are being reported down under lately. Have the >Greys only just discovered Australia? (bit like you Americans....NO.. there >are NO kangaroos jumpin' around my back garden, or in my street!!!! ;-) >Jamie >-- >------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Jamie P. Curmi (curmi@cs.mu.oz.au, curmi@maths.mu.oz.au) Department of Computer Science, Department of Mathematics The Un >iversity of Melbourne, Parkville, Victoria, Australia >------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > *** Mutate NOW - avoid the rush! *** Best regards Stefan Hartmann. email to: leo@zelator.in-berlin.de -- ************************************************************* * Stefan Hartmann This is how to contact me: * * EMAIL: leo@zelator.in-berlin.de * * Phone : ++ 49 30 344 23 66 FAX : ++ 49 30 344 92 79 * ************************************************************* Xref: icaen alt.alien.visitors:8193 alt.conspiracy:17580 alt.activism:30840 sci.skeptic:28603 misc.headlines:23377 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!cis.ohio-state.edu!ucbvax!bloom-beacon!eru.mt.luth.se!lunic!sunic!chalmers.se!etek.chalmers.se!etek.chalmers.se!lindq From: lindq@etek.chalmers.se (Johan Lindqvist) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy,alt.activism,sci.skeptic,misc.headlines,alt.politics.bush.talk.politics.guns Subject: Re: A racist argument against handgun control legislation. Message-ID: <1992Aug10.132118.1693@etek.chalmers.se> Date: 10 Aug 92 13:21:18 GMT References: <1992Aug2.162931.26755@mcshub.dcss.mcmaster.ca> <1992Aug4.124014.15095@lmpsbbs.comm.mot.com> <1992Aug5.092544.25579@etek.chalmers.se> <1992Aug6.180124.5853@oracle.us.oracle.com> Sender: news@etek.chalmers.se (USENET News System) Reply-To: lindq@etek.chalmers.se (Johan Lindqvist) Organization: Chalmers University of Technology, Gothenburg, SWEDEN Lines: 60 In article <1992Aug6.180124.5853@oracle.us.oracle.com>, mfriedma@uucp (Michael Friedman) writes: |> |> Johan, you may become a criminal "by opportunity" but other people |> become criminals because they are assholes. In fact, if you believe |> that the only thing it would take to make you commit a robbery, rape, |> or murder is the opportunity then you're an asshole too. On the other |> hand, you may just be guilty of unclear thinking. |> Not the only thing. See other article. |> >Conclution: |> >If guns are not so wide spread, criminals would have a hard time getting |> >them, and violent crimes would, hopefully, be reduced. |> |> Your premise has an obvius corollary - law abiding citizens also would |> be less likely to own guns. Yes, I know. |> |> Please explain why you think there would be more crime in a society |> where gun ownership is widespread among both law-abiding citizens and |> criminals than one where guns are rare in both groups. |> Whith fewer guns, crimes would be less violent. At least that's what I think. Do you agree on that? I don't think it's a law of nature that the US have such a high rate of violent crimes, and part of it is due to the fact that weapons in general, and guns in particular are considered as an expression of 'freedom'. I don't really understand why guns == freedom, but then, there's a lot in the US I don't understand. |> As a final exercise, please factor in the fact that criminals are, |> almost by definition, more willing to break the law than law abiding |> citizens and that therefore gun laws reduce gun ownership more among |> law abiding citizens than among criminals. Yes, I know. I don't know if it's possible to reduce the ammount of guns among criminals in USA, but for instance here in Sweden, where guns are not so wide spread, if you'd change the laws so that owning a gun became legal for anyone, I think violent crimes would go up. BUT if carrying a gun became illegal, police would be able to arrest criminals on the charge of carrying a gun before they got the chance to rob anyone. Also, guns wouldn't be considered 'natural', if you see what I mean. (If you saw that someone had a gun, you would react and watch that persons action, which might leat to that he (she) never got any chance to rob you. ______________________________________________________________________________ Johan Lindqvist |Due to lack of interest, tomorrow Gothenburg Mail: |has been cancelled. Sweden lindq@etek.chalmers.se | ______________________________________________________________________________ Xref: icaen alt.alien.visitors:8194 alt.conspiracy:17581 alt.activism:30841 sci.skeptic:28604 misc.headlines:23378 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!cis.ohio-state.edu!ucbvax!bloom-beacon!eru.mt.luth.se!lunic!sunic!chalmers.se!etek.chalmers.se!etek.chalmers.se!lindq From: lindq@etek.chalmers.se (Johan Lindqvist) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy,alt.activism,sci.skeptic,misc.headlines,alt.politics.bush.talk.politics.guns Subject: Re: A racist argument against handgun control legislation. Message-ID: <1992Aug10.130150.1431@etek.chalmers.se> Date: 10 Aug 92 13:01:50 GMT References: <1992Aug2.162931.26755@mcshub.dcss.mcmaster.ca> <1992Aug4.124014.15095@lmpsbbs.comm.mot.com> <1992Aug5.092544.25579@etek.chalmers.se> <1992Aug7.003235.6500@adobe.com> Sender: news@etek.chalmers.se (USENET News System) Reply-To: lindq@etek.chalmers.se (Johan Lindqvist) Organization: Chalmers University of Technology, Gothenburg, SWEDEN Lines: 40 In article <1992Aug7.003235.6500@adobe.com>, pngai@adobe.com (Phil Ngai) writes: |> In article <1992Aug5.092544.25579@etek.chalmers.se> lindq@etek.chalmers.se (Johan Lindqvist) writes: |> >And are peple born criminals? No. They become criminals |> >by oppurtunity. |> |> I guess females should not go out on dates with you because if you |> get the "opportunity" to rape someone, you would do it. |> |> Most decent people are not like you, of course. |> No smileys ?????? Because I hope you understood what I ment. But if not, I'll be clearer: To me, dividing people in criminals and non-criminals are a mild form of racism, since I belive that peole can cange and that we are not ruled by fate, but have a free will and are able to make desitions about how we want to lead our lives. That's why I feel that putting someone in one of those groups are a way to say "We are more worth than they are, because we were born that way". So what I meant was this: A person isn't a criminal until he commits a crime. If he doesn't get an oppurtunity, he probably can't be a criminal. Oppurtunity is ONE of the neccesary things when turning criminal, not the only. Life isn't black or white. In article <1992Aug5.134550.21921@engage.pko.dec.com>, stanley@verga.enet.dec.com writes: |> |> Your ideas would never work in this country. |> Why not? Because guns are already widespread. That is exactly my point. I know I can't change the US, well, at least not much :) , but I can give my point of view. Which I did. ______________________________________________________________________________ Johan Lindqvist |Due to lack of interest, tomorrow Gothenburg Mail: |has been cancelled. Sweden lindq@etek.chalmers.se | ______________________________________________________________________________ Xref: icaen alt.alien.visitors:8195 alt.conspiracy:17582 alt.activism:30844 sci.skeptic:28605 misc.headlines:23379 alt.politics.bush:1957 Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy,alt.activism,sci.skeptic,misc.headlines,alt.politics.bush Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!usc!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!malgudi.oar.net!chemabs!sdr57 From: sdr57@cas.org () Subject: Re: UFO "October Surprise" and USA TAKEOVER?! Message-ID: <1992Aug10.142244.3832@cas.org> Sender: usenet@cas.org Organization: Chemical Abstracts Service, Columbus, Ohio References: <15ka6sINNg4q@agate.berkeley.edu> <1992Aug4.034059.10005@mksol.dseg.ti.com> <1992Aug9.193609.14566@husc3.harvard.edu> Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1992 14:22:44 GMT Lines: 29 In article <1992Aug9.193609.14566@husc3.harvard.edu> rocher@husc8.harvard.edu (Jean-Marc Rocher) writes: > >You seem to overlook the fact that it's a lot harder to walk into >a public place while trying to conceal a flaming bottle of gasoline >inside your coat (although a car might just be possible...) > You can conceal a car inside your coat? What model? Are you by chance an alien? A *very* large alien? Or a small alien with a shrinking ray? (Yes, I'm beating it into the ground, but I'm trying to determine the relation between the subject line and the content of the post) The trick with the gasoline is to light it *after* you've taken it out of your coat. :-) (BTW, there has been at least one aircraft hijack attempt using a bottle containing a fluid identified by the hijacker as gasoline) ****************************************************************************** Renegade academician. They're a dangerous breed when they go feral, academics are...a chemist, too. -(James P. Blaylock in "Lord Kelvin's Machine") My organization hasn't agreed with any of my opinions so far, and I doubt they'll start now. Stanley "Ya nee speon" Roberts Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!caen!malgudi.oar.net!ucbeh.san.uc.edu!barnett From: barnett@ucbeh.san.uc.edu Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Six Stranded DNA?? Message-ID: <1992Aug10.104344.1634@ucbeh.san.uc.edu> Date: 10 Aug 92 10:43:44 EST Distribution: world Organization: Univ. of Cincinnati Lines: 12 Having received a Ph.D. from Johns Hopkins Medical School in biochemistry, (and working in an X-ray crystallography lab studying DNA binding proteins), I would have thought they'd have taught us about this "triple-stranded" and "six-stranded" DNA. No such luck. Maybe I missed that day... I would greatly appreciate it if someone could explain the CHEMICAL basis for these molecules to me. I think this information would be worthy of publication. Thanks for your help! Eric Suchanek (posting from a friend's account with permission). Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:11132 alt.alien.visitors:8197 sci.skeptic:28606 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!olivea!apple!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day Message-ID: <63758@cup.portal.com> Date: 10 Aug 92 14:18:44 GMT References: <1992Jun5.011013.1412@beaver.cs.washington.edu> <63714@cup.portal.com> Organization: The Portal System (TM) Lines: 10 Howdy all ya friends and neighbors: Some people say I'm not going to get any respect unless I get serious so I'll give you a serious question; Have you hugged your rock today? Dr. /demonde, a biologist in Lyon, France left a rock on top of his electrocardiograph and when he came back after being on vacation he saw that the rock had inpressed pulses on the machine. It was found that rocks breathe, but only one inhilation every three days to two weeks. They have a pulse which is about a day and a half. They canCok move but not too fast, about seven inches in a period of 14 weeks. So there you have it spacefans, we should have a rock race. John Winston. Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: A question for John_-_Winston Message-ID: <63759@cup.portal.com> Date: Mon, 10 Aug 92 08:07:42 PDT Organization: The Portal System (TM) References: <63382@cup.portal.com> <63499@cup.portal.com> <1992Aug9.224854.25507@mits.mdata.fi> Lines: 6 Dear Atti: Thanks for the infromation about the person called Mutlu who I called Multu. I believe you will find that the original question posted to me was spelled Multu. I hesitate to get into these small wars that escalate into full sized wars that last 3,000 years. Thanks again for the computer address of Mutlu. John Winston. Xref: icaen alt.alien.visitors:8199 alt.conspiracy:17583 alt.activism:30848 misc.headlines:23380 alt.politics.bush:1965 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!uakari.primate.wisc.edu!ames!agate!boulder!ucsu!ucsu.Colorado.EDU!buckley From: buckley@ucsu.Colorado.EDU (BUCKLEY CHARLES RAY) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy,alt.activism,misc.headlines,alt.politics.bush Subject: Re: guns and criminals Message-ID: <1992Aug10.131101.29018@ucsu.Colorado.EDU> Date: 10 Aug 92 13:11:01 GMT References: <1992Aug5.183928.8223@ke4zv.uucp> <1992Aug10.035048.27672@cam.compserv.utas.edu.au> Sender: news@ucsu.Colorado.EDU (USENET News System) Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder Lines: 43 Nntp-Posting-Host: ucsu.colorado.edu In article <1992Aug10.035048.27672@cam.compserv.utas.edu.au> rhoge1@esk.compserv.utas.edu.au (Robin Hoge) writes: >Well, I have rifle, that I have been using for four years on our farm >for hunting animals like rabbits, possum, kangaroo, and their cousins. >I think that here in Australia it is a good idea to have gun laws, but >it is only going to keep track of a percentage of the gun owners. I >won't bother to register my rifle, because I will always get bullets >from my farm neighbors and any other rifle I might want to buy I can >buy from any number of people. And they too will not bother to register. >The main fear, I feel, would be that if they DO register, and the rifles >DO go missing, and someone gets shot and the rifle turns up again, then >you're in deep shit. I don't have any form of gun license, but in the >past four years I've owned semi automatic rifles, shotguns, and hand guns, >but they come and go as fast as bullets. Here it is essential to have a >license for handguns, but the way they pop up all the time, I don't >think that it's worth getting a license. But hopefully most people do >get a license, especially city folk. They shouldn't even have guns. >ASnd if they do, then they should also have a farm where to keep such >things, but if they're away and someone breaks in an takes the gun, >shoots someone, and then returns it... well... > >Myself, well I will not register any of my guns, because I would >have to continuously go back and re-register a new gun/rifle, so >it's just too much hassle. Did you know that silencers for rifles >are illegal here? I've got one, I don't care if the whole world >knows, I can just as easily not have one. We use silencers on the >properties when we're on foot. Makes sence though. On an average, >I'd say we get 80% more animals than without the silencers. The only >thing about them is they are home-made and exspensive; A$80.00. > >I think I've said most of what I was going to say. > Now that the topic has divirged enough from its origin, would you please quit posting to alt.alien.visitors. This place used to be fun. Now we're wading through topics that have nothing to do with this newsgroup. Charles Buckley > >-- >()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()() >))##r#h#o#g#e#1#@#e#s#k#.#c#o#m#p#s#e#r#v#.#u#t#a#s#.#e#d#u#.#a#u###(( >))# I don't care what country you're from... You're still human. #(( >()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()() Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: John_-_Winston Poll Message-ID: <63760@cup.portal.com> Date: Mon, 10 Aug 92 08:25:14 PDT Organization: The Portal System (TM) References: <1992Jul27.171026.13467@odin.corp.sgi.com> Lines: 2 Dear Thinkers: I am still looking at your posting and they are interesting. John Winston. Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!decwrl!pa.dec.com!nntpd2.cxo.dec.com!nntpd.lkg.dec.com!ryn.mro4.dec.com!est.enet.dec.com!randolph From: randolph@est.enet.dec.com (Tom Randolph) Subject: Re: Moon Activities?y Message-ID: <1992Aug10.143419.24967@ryn.mro4.dec.com> Sender: news@ryn.mro4.dec.com (USENET News System) Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation References: <1992Aug6.130658.11727@nntpd2.cxo.dec.com> <31891.220926099@kcbbs.gen.nz> Date: 10 AUG 92 10:31:28 Lines: 17 In article <31891.220926099@kcbbs.gen.nz>, Robert_Sutton@kcbbs.gen.nz (Robert Sutton) writes... >timpson@acetek.enet.dec.com() Thu 6Aug1992 13:06:58 GMT types--- >>WRONG >>Monks witnessed a meteor/astroid or small comet impact. > >WRONG- >Unless the moon did have alien visitors or a geological turnabout of >the most boggle threshold expander kind. >Is it related to R2D2 of previous posts?. > What in the world are you trying to say here? As I already posted, this was in Sky&Telescope not more than two months ago. It's widely believed that the monks did in fact witness a large meteor impacting the Moon. Is that so unbelievable? I'll post references if you like. -Tom R. randolph@est.enet.dec.com Xref: icaen alt.alien.visitors:8202 talk.religion.newage:11136 sci.skeptic:28610 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,talk.religion.newage,sci.skeptic Subject: Re: Hatton: CIA or ET Message-ID: <63762@cup.portal.com> Date: Mon, 10 Aug 92 08:40:07 PDT Organization: The Portal System (TM) References: <63423@cup.portal.com> <2398@israel.nysernet.org> <63514@cup.portal.com> Lines: 10 Dear Hatoon Lovers and Haters: I agree with all the people on both sides of the argument. When he comes through Richard Miller and the Solar Cross people he sounds like a very nice person. When he talks through Mr. Green he is one rough dude. If a person wants to get some information about Hatoon and find out for themselves they can write, The Phoenix Express, America West Publishers Inc., PO Box 986, Tehachapi, Calif. 93581. For a catalog you can call 805-822-9655. It may sound like I'm backing Hatoon from this source but he is not exactly my cup of tea when he is talking through Mr. Green. John Winston Xref: icaen alt.alien.visitors:8203 alt.conspiracy:17584 alt.activism:30850 sci.skeptic:28612 misc.headlines:23382 alt.politics.bush:1967 Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy,alt.activism,sci.skeptic,misc.headlines,alt.politics.bush Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!haven.umd.edu!darwin.sura.net!jvnc.net!glassboro.edu!cass8806 From: cass8806@elan.glassboro.edu (KYLE CASSIDY) Subject: Re: UFO "October Surprise" and USA TAKEOVER?! Message-ID: Sender: news@gboro.glassboro.edu (USENET News System) Nntp-Posting-Host: bizlab210.glassboro.edu Organization: Glassboro State College, Glassboro, NJ References: <15ka6sINNg4q@agate.berkeley.edu> <1992Aug4.034059.10005@mksol.dseg.ti.com> <1992Aug9.193609.14566@husc3.harvard.edu> <1992Aug10.142244.3832@cas.org> Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1992 15:41:16 GMT Lines: 18 In article <1992Aug10.142244.3832@cas.org> sdr57@cas.org () writes: >In article <1992Aug9.193609.14566@husc3.harvard.edu> rocher@husc8.harvard.edu (Jean-Marc Rocher) writes: >> >>You seem to overlook the fact that it's a lot harder to walk into >>a public place while trying to conceal a flaming bottle of gasoline >>inside your coat (although a car might just be possible...) >> >(BTW, there has been at least one aircraft hijack attempt >using a bottle containing a fluid identified by the hijacker >as gasoline) i for one am VERY glad that people go around shooting at one another rather than flinging flaming bottles of gasoline. the possibilities for destruction are practically limitless -- in a terrorist sense of the word -- of course you're not going to blow up any banks with them, but i'd hate to see what could happen if even one was flung into a crowd of people -- say times square on new years eve.... Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!meaddata!dougr From: dougr@meaddata.com (Doug Ritter) Subject: Re: Gulf Breeze Six In The News Again References: <1992Aug5.143625.23178@engage.pko.dec.com> <63496@cup.portal.com> <1992Aug7.032346.21143@random.ccs.northeastern.edu> Sender: news@meaddata.com (Usenet Administrator) Organization: Mead Data Central, Dayton OH Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1992 15:41:14 GMT Message-ID: <1992Aug10.154114.27565@meaddata.com> Lines: 49 In article <1992Aug7.032346.21143@random.ccs.northeastern.edu> rogue@ccs.northeastern.edu (Rogue Agent) writes: >In article <63496@cup.portal.com> Jeffrey_-_Papineau@cup.portal.com writes: >>A lot of you kids have not been around long enough to be toilet trained >>for more than a few years, so I'll give you a break while dad puts you >>through school... >>But you really need to consider just how many sources there are for "end- >>times" information and how close it just might be to occuring. > >You should do some research into the decades just before AD 1000. They >were just as tumultuous, and there were just as many people crying 'The >End Times (tm) are coming!'. Or if you like, look into more recent history, >around 1872-1874. The Millerites (forebears of the Seventh-Day Adventists, >Jehovah's Witnesses, and Worldwide Church of God) were all the rage. There's >always someone shouting it out - it's just that now we have global >communication that lets us hear them all. William Miller's movement began in the 1840's, and basically collapsed after the events he expected (destruction of the Earth by "Heavenly Fire") did not occur. The current Seventh Day Adventists theology has very little in common with Miller's original hypothesis, although they do claim him as their progenitor. Charles Russell's movement began in the late 1860's - he expected the beginning of the end of the current world society in 1914. The Jehovah's Witnesses rose on the remnants of Russell's organization after his death in 1916, and have no idealogical connection with the "Russellite" movement, and indeed, no connection whatsoever, other than the fact that they took over his printing facilities after he died. The Worldwide Church of God came into being shortly after that I believe, although I'm no expert on their origins, in the 1930's. The dates you mention are significant in Russell's theology, but not in any of the others. 1872 is 6000 years from the creation of Adam and 1874 is the end of the Jewish "Jubilee Cycle" and the beginning of "Earth's Great Jubilee". 1914 is the end of the "Gentile Times" and the end of the "Jewish Double", and on that date, Russell expected the "Gentile's Lease of Dominion" to begin to end with the destruction of the Church-State systems of Europe, and expected the rise of Israel to take world leadership from the gentile kingdoms. While this transition of power has taken longer than many at the time expected, there are those today who believe that Russell was the Seventh Messenger to the Christian Church, and who still expect the rise of Israel and the establishment of an Earthly Kingdom of God, with a totally revamped world society where justice and equality reign, under her lead. > >Yes, I know - 'this time it's for real!'. But that's what they all said. > > RA -- Doug Ritter (dougr@meaddata.com) Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!decwrl!pa.dec.com!nntpd2.cxo.dec.com!nntpd.lkg.dec.com!sousa.ltn.dec.com!hawk1.enet.dec.com!bottom From: bottom@hawk1.enet.dec.com Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Nazi plots (was Re: Gulf Breeze Six In The News Again) Message-ID: <1486@sousa.ltn.dec.com> Date: 10 Aug 92 14:41:11 GMT References: <1992Aug7.012803.11738@nuchat.sccsi.com> <13270.2a85f20e@ohstpy.mps.ohio-state.edu> Sender: newsa@sousa.ltn.dec.com Reply-To: hedron::daveb Organization: ASO IM operations Lines: 31 re: "Police state" Actually I agree, the war on drugs accompanied by many other activities of the Executive branch (but not limited to that branch) has begun a trend that I feel is one that moves us more twords a police state. As long as police can break and enter (without a warrant, and without identifying themselves), then murder the confused occupant of the house, for possession of 1 joint, and recieve protection from local and state authorities, then we're definatly becoming a police state. In moving backwards to reference the 50's or earlier, and the moral abuses of those decades, you neglect the 60's, 70's and 80's where we had more freedom than we do today IMHO. I didn't have helo's flying over my neighborhood everyday looking to kill plots of the deadly weed. The use of the military to enforce civilian law is prohibited in the constitution but that fact is ignored by the government as they choose to. If you're interested in the above mentioned case it happend about 2 years ago in New Hamshire, Hudson or thereabouts as I recall... However this rathole has nothing to do with UFObasing, looney bashing or skeptic bashing... -- /dave +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | ESP, Steinberger, Fender, Kitty Hawk, Rivera, Rocktron, Alesis, Tascam, | | Metaltronix, EMG, Semour Duncan, D'Addario rock on! | | Midi rack pukes do it with 16 channels | | You make my life and times a book of bluesy Saturdays... | +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ Xref: icaen alt.alien.visitors:8206 alt.conspiracy:17585 alt.activism:30851 sci.skeptic:28614 misc.headlines:23383 alt.politics.bush:1971 Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy,alt.activism,sci.skeptic,misc.headlines,alt.politics.bush Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sdd.hp.com!cs.utexas.edu!csc.ti.com!tilde.csc.ti.com!mksol!mccall From: mccall@mksol.dseg.ti.com (fred j mccall 575-3539) Subject: Re: UFO "October Surprise" and USA TAKEOVER?! Message-ID: <1992Aug10.151617.19365@mksol.dseg.ti.com> Organization: Texas Instruments, Inc References: <15ka6sINNg4q@agate.berkeley.edu> <1992Aug4.034059.10005@mksol.dseg.ti.com> <1992Aug9.193609.14566@husc3.harvard.edu> Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1992 15:16:17 GMT Lines: 23 In article <1992Aug9.193609.14566@husc3.harvard.edu> rocher@husc8.harvard.edu (Jean-Marc Rocher) writes: >>Except, of course, for the constantly demonstrated fact that the >>problem isn't the guns OR their availability -- the problem is the >>loose nuts behind the trigger. They're going to exist whether you >>allow guns or not, and if you don't allow guns they'll just use cars, >>bottles full of gasoline, etc. >> >>Fred.McCall@dseg.ti.com - I don't speak for others and they don't speak for me. > >You seem to overlook the fact that it's a lot harder to walk into a public place while trying to conceal a flaming bottle of gasoline inside your coat (although a car might just be possible...) Sorry, but you're wrong. I can quite easily conceal several bottles of gasoline and a lighter inside my clothing. I can whip one out and get it lit just about as fast as can be done with a firearm. As you might recall, when airlines tightened security to check for guns and knives, people started hijacking airplanes with bottles of gasoline. -- "Insisting on perfect safety is for people who don't have the balls to live in the real world." -- Mary Shafer, NASA Ames Dryden ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Fred.McCall@dseg.ti.com - I don't speak for others and they don't speak for me. Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!usc!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!eff!news.oc.com!convex!swarren From: swarren@convex.com (Steve Warren) Subject: Re: Nazi plots (was Re: Gulf Breeze Six In The News Again) Sender: usenet@news.eng.convex.com (news access account) Message-ID: <1992Aug10.161314.27503@news.eng.convex.com> Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1992 16:13:14 GMT References: <13270.2a85f20e@ohstpy.mps.ohio-state.edu> Nntp-Posting-Host: magnum.convex.com Organization: Engineering, CONVEX Computer Corp., Richardson, Tx., USA X-Disclaimer: This message was written by a user at CONVEX Computer Corp. The opinions expressed are those of the user and not necessarily those of CONVEX. Lines: 22 In article nelson_p@apollo.hp.com (Peter Nelson) writes: >>>>swarren@convex.com (Steve Warren) writes: >>>> >>>>Look around you. In just a few short years, the War On Drugs has desensitized >>>>us to things that would have made us scream "Police state!" before. Peter, please take a little more care with your attributions. I did not write this quote. This was someone else's response to my previous posting, in which I stated that we would have to see a lot of things happen before some conspiracy could succeed in locking up large portions of our society. My point was that there are warning signs when something like that is impending - generally an extended and focused propoganda campaign denouncing the groups of people that are slated for lockup. My example was Nazi Germany, in which propoganda was used extensively before the Christians and Jews were rounded up. -- _. --Steve ._||__ Welcome to the World's First GaAs Supercomputer Warren v\ *| ----------------------------------------------- V Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!wupost!darwin.sura.net!jvnc.net!netnews.upenn.edu!grip.cis.upenn.edu!jmv From: jmv@grip.cis.upenn.edu (Jean-Marc Vezien) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: THE NATURE OF REALITY Message-ID: <85766@netnews.upenn.edu> Date: 10 Aug 92 16:31:30 GMT References: <1992Aug7.152034.14241@usenet.ins.cwru.edu> <85571@netnews.upenn.edu> <1992Aug9.071406.6873@techbook.com> Sender: news@netnews.upenn.edu Organization: GRASP Lab Lines: 42 Nntp-Posting-Host: grip.cis.upenn.edu In article <1992Aug9.071406.6873@techbook.com>, nancyp@techbook.com (Nancy Parsons) writes: > jmv@grip.cis.upenn.edu (Jean-Marc Vezien) writes: > B > > >> 1. No tracks whatsoever around the carcasses. > > >You obviously never tried to hide tracks. Not a too difficult > >job, if you want to. > > >> 2. All blood completely drained from the bodies, but no blood on the > >> ground. > > >Well ? the blood was drained somewhere else ! > > > I might find it a tad difficult to cart ol' Bossie off, drain her > blood and do a little dissection, and truck her back again, all > however-many hundreds of pounds of dead meat of her, without either > a whole crowd of people, or some heavy equipment. Given the logistical > problems of transporting the carcass, I would think hiding the resulting > tracks would be a DAMN difficult job. Well, Nancy let's look at that closely. If you ever happened to watch some of those "Wild Life" reports on capturing some heavy animal in Africa, you'll see you don't need a "a whole crowd of people", but 4 or 5 persons. As for the "heavy equipment", no need for a heavy truck, a small one and a hoist will do. Indeed, I see some logistical problems, but nothing a cattle farmer could not handle. Hiding the tracks could take a little time, but nothing extraordinary. Again, my point is: don't invoke exceptionnal explanations when simpler explanations are available. Now, if three dozens of cows are drained from their blood in the same night with no tracks visible, I WILL be surprised. JM. Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:11137 alt.alien.visitors:8209 sci.skeptic:28616 Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!srg!spica!dpipes From: dpipes@spica.srg (Dave Pipes x4552) Subject: Re: Saga of the Family of Light I - Pleiadians13 Organization: just me and my double helix Date: Mon, 10 Aug 92 15:39:24 GMT Message-ID: <1992Aug10.153924.28437@srg.srg.af.mil> Followup-To: sci.skeptic References: <63422@cup.portal.com> <1992Aug5.175403.2821@random.ccs.northeastern.edu> <63596@cup.portal.com> Sender: news@srg.srg.af.mil (Usenet news user) Lines: 32 In article <63596@cup.portal.com> Don_-_Showen@cup.portal.com writes: >RA says > >>This is silly. I mean, go on all you want about 'light filaments' in DNA. >>But don't tell me DNA has three strands. It just makes you sound stupid. > >Don't be concerned RA the Family of Light is less than 2% of the population. So >of course YOUR DNA is going nowhere. People have the choice to follow their >genetic program or to make the spiritual choice of activating their DNA through >consciousness and choosing ones reality. I used to think I could convince >people to make the spiritual choice but I have learned from this net that most >deny the existence of their spirit (it would sound stupid). So I can see how >one who is denying the existence of their spirit would not be able to conceive >of >being able to create their own reality and spiritually program their own DNA. >So RA all of what I have to say on this net is going to sound stupid to you. >Why >don't you just put my name in your kill file so you will not be bothered by all >these stupid, unbelievable ideas. Hey, Don, here's a wild idea: Why not submit a skin or fluid sample to a reputable university bio department? When we get the results back showing that your DNA is different from 98% of the population in a scientifically unexpected way (3 strands, glowing, no amino acids, whatever) you can post the results, and start buying a lot more hot tubs... C'mon, here's your chance to change the world and become as as famous as Darwin... David Pipes robear@digex.com Is this Newage stuff just another way for people to feel superior to others? Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:11138 alt.alien.visitors:8210 sci.skeptic:28622 Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!pacific.mps.ohio-state.edu!linac!att!pacbell.com!decwrl!pa.dec.com!rdg.dec.com!ryn.mro4.dec.com!est.enet.dec.com!randolph From: randolph@est.enet.dec.com (Tom Randolph) Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day Message-ID: <1992Aug10.161733.27784@ryn.mro4.dec.com> Sender: news@ryn.mro4.dec.com (USENET News System) Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation References: <1992Jun5.011013.1412@beaver.cs.washington.edu> <63758@cup.portal.com> Date: 10 AUG 92 12:16:38 Lines: 11 In article <63758@cup.portal.com>, John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes... >to two weeks. They have a pulse which is about a day and a half. They canCok >move but not too fast, about seven inches in a period of 14 weeks. So >there you have it spacefans, we should have a rock race. >John Winston. So how come the rock I have as a paperweight on my shelf here has never moved an inch in the six months it's been there? Maybe it died cuz I didn't know I should feed it? -Tom R. randolph@est.enet.dec.com Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!decwrl!pa.dec.com!oct17.dfe.dec.com!ryn.mro4.dec.com!est.enet.dec.com!randolph From: randolph@est.enet.dec.com (Tom Randolph) Subject: Re: Ley Lines Message-ID: <1992Aug10.150237.25838@ryn.mro4.dec.com> Sender: news@ryn.mro4.dec.com (USENET News System) Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation References: <1992Aug5.174301.2719@random.ccs.northeastern.edu> <63702@cup.portal.com> Date: 10 AUG 92 10:53:26 Lines: 22 In article <63702@cup.portal.com>, thad@cup.portal.com (Thad P Floryan) writes... >In article <1992Aug7.165152.11170@ryn.mro4.dec.com> >randolph@est.enet.dec.com (Tom Randolph) writes: > >|Huh? >|Please elaborate on the above, particularly what would occur if the Moon was >|stationary relative to the Earth. Also, please explain solar tides and why the >y >|occur on both sides of the Earth. > >Happy to oblige. > >I've included both the correct explanation (as I stated) [centrifugal force] >and the incorrectly-stated one from Asimov's book [gravity gradients]. > Well, thanks for typing all that, but it doesn't answer the questions. What would happen to the tides if the Earth/Moon system could be made stationary, i.e. "centrifugal force" were removed from the system? Why do solar tides occur on both sides of the Earth? -Tom R. randolph@est.enet.dec.com Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!sdd.hp.com!mips!mips!rtech!ingres!kevinq From: kevinq@Ingres.COM (Kevin Quinn) Subject: Re: Disinformation Agents at Work? Message-ID: <1992Aug10.170143.24505@pony.Ingres.COM> Keywords: UFO disinformation Reply-To: kevinq@Ingres.COM (Kevin Quinn) Organization: Ask Computer Systems Inc., Ingres Division, Alameda CA 94501 References: <1tymt#-.vere@netcom.com> <1992Aug7.182216.6460@pony.Ingres.COM> Date: 10 Aug 92 17:01:43 GMT Lines: 29 In article vere@netcom.com (Steven Vere) writes: >In article <1992Aug7.182216.6460@pony.Ingres.COM> kevinq@Ingres.COM (Kevin Quinn) writes: >>In article <1tymt#-.vere@netcom.com> vere@netcom.com (Steven Vere) writes: >>> > Your reply is consistent with my hypothesis that disinformation agents >are polluting the information stream in alt.alien.visitors. > > >-- >___________________________________________________________________________ > > Steven Vere 70571.521@compuserve.com > Boulder Creek, California vere@netcom.com ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ A known hotbed of counter-culture saucerists, and home of many nests of greys! Warning, folks: Steve may be out to get you (munch, munch). kbq -- Kevin Quinn | kevinq@ingres.com | {mtzinu,pacbell,ll-winken,sun}!ingres.com My opinions are my own. Should you think otherwise, think again. Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!wupost!sdd.hp.com!mips!mips!rtech!ingres!kevinq From: kevinq@Ingres.COM (Kevin Quinn) Subject: Re: Disinformation Agents at Work? Message-ID: <1992Aug10.171710.25417@pony.Ingres.COM> Keywords: UFO disinformation Reply-To: kevinq@Ingres.COM (Kevin Quinn) Organization: Ask Computer Systems Inc., Ingres Division, Alameda CA 94501 References: <1tymt#-.vere@netcom.com> <1992Aug8.171940.9246@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU> Date: 10 Aug 92 17:17:10 GMT Lines: 50 In article sheaffer@netcom.com (Robert Sheaffer) writes: >No, if anybody is CIA here, it *must* be me. And since I don't know >who these Foard and Quinn guys are, and since I know that I'm not >CIA, therefore at least *I* can know that Mr. Vere is hallucinating. >Because if the CIA is paying off Foard and Quinn, they sure as hell >aren't getting their money's worth from THOSE guys. They'd be much ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Robert, you hurt my heart! And I was trying to keep it in such a nice stat for my favorite grey. Besides, I used to work for NSA, not CIA (electronic media, you know). Who knows what I do with my alter egos? (I don't; need to know, and all that). >better off paying me instead. Just think of how much more debunking >I could do if I did this full-time! (No, of *course* I'm not a Yeah, but you know as well as I that once a bunny-crystal-hugger, always a b-c-h. No matter the technique - my lampooning, or your analysis - those who cannot handle reality will always *need* to believe in some warm fuzzy larger-than-themselves creation. The more outrageous, the more divergent from everyday experiences, the more 'them' can be accused of 'hiding the truth', the better. >full-time debunker. But I DO write very fast!). So the only reasonable >conclusion is either that nobody here is CIA, or else that the CIA >doesn't mind paying some guys mucho bucks to do 1% of what someone >else will do for free, in his spare time. In which case, they are Remeber, the CIA/NSA/DIA et al have more than their share of dweebs, jerks, and morons also! >wasting much money, that could be better spent forging JFK documents, ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Wrong season - it's Monroe time! Have a good one. I now return control of your system back to you. But only for the moment... kbq -- Kevin Quinn | kevinq@ingres.com | {mtzinu,pacbell,ll-winken,sun}!ingres.com My opinions are my own. Should you think otherwise, think again. Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!rpi!palmj From: palmj@vccsouth23.its.rpi.edu (Jyri L. Palm) Subject: Re: Ride on John's Back, Please! (Was: Re: Get Off John's Ba Message-ID: Nntp-Posting-Host: vccsouth23.its.rpi.edu References: <14070@mindlink.bc.ca> <63578@cup.portal.com> <63615@cup.portal.com> <1992Aug8.023601.22136@mprgate.mpr.ca> Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1992 17:39:15 GMT Lines: 59 spani@mprgate.mpr.ca (Leonard Spani) writes: >In article <63615@cup.portal.com>, John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes: >|> Dear Friends and Countryman and women: I don't know who is the person >|> who determines when a collection is taken off but I would like to suggest >|> that this collection (July the 4th etc>) be taken off. I will add one or more >|> new ones, in the near future. If it is not taken off >|> then that will be fine also. >|> John Winston. >Congradulations John! >This post is the only one where I have had absolutly no damn idea what you >could possibly be talking about. >Could it be because I'm not one of your countrymen? >I wonder if the *thousands* of people from all over the *world* who read >this newsgroup have any idea either? I wonder if all of the people who have >to *pay* for their access to the net will appreciate its (highly probable) >significance to their interest in UFOs? I bet that *everyone* would like to >personally thank you by sending you email, perhaps we could *all* help you with >your spelling at the same time by including a copy of an on-line dictionary >or encyclopedia? (I better put a smiley here quick! ;^) >Seriously John, >Could you please *try* to be more considerate to the rest of us sometimes? >Leonard. I wonder: (a) Do the "Dear xxxx" people actually read these replies? There seem to be an overly disproportionate number of Dear... to OTHER posters. So not only do all the Dear... clutter up OUR mailboxes, they may not even get to the intended people either. (b) Does the feed we get have the same structure as John gets? Here, in the above posting, he is wondering if the "July 4th" thread (series) of postings should be ended. But this is the "Get off John's back" thread. Here, and somewhere else, John refers to a different thread, but presumably he is thinking he is actually in THAT other thread. So what's going on? By the looks of it, his reader is not all there, or he is not all there. And by the way, since he hasn't been on the net since July 31st, this means all the "Keep you private messages to E-mail" blew right by him. So try again. Finally, couldn't the Net-Cops wipe all these threads that contain personal messages, just ONCE to send a message? ---->>> Use E-mail <<<--- JP Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!acd4!TEFS1!gvb From: gvb@TEFS1.acd.com (Gregg Brown) Subject: Re: Disinformation Agents at Work? Message-ID: <1992Aug10.163959.9876@acd4.acd.com> Keywords: UFO disinformation Sender: news@acd4.acd.com (USENET News System) Organization: Applied Computing Devices, Inc., Terre Haute IN References: <1tymt#-.vere@netcom.com> Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1992 16:39:59 GMT Lines: 29 In article <1tymt#-.vere@netcom.com> vere@netcom.com (Steven Vere) writes: > > For the sake of argument, let's assume the US government has an >active program of coverup and disinformation for UFO material. As >part of its charter, the responsible organization would of course >monitor UFO related publications and groups. In particular, they >would probably be monitoring alt.alien.visitors. The principle of >disinformation and active measures would call for government agents, >posing as private citizens, to post skeptical replies and attacks on >legitimate reports of UFO experiences, to try to shut them up, >neutralize them, and discourage others from publicly reporting >their experiences. > So, the next time you some incredibly closed-minded individual >spouting off on this newsgroup, give the guy a break. He may just be >some poor, underpaid government employee trying to do his job. >-- > Steven Vere 70571.521@compuserve.com Yes, Steve, I have thought of this. However, more effective might be the spreading of information (similar in appearance) to that of the Pheonix Project. Investigative reports that appear to be "official" but are easily debunked with a minimum amount of effort. This could discredit and discourage many people from even following any ETH/UFO information making it all look like hoaxery. Gregg. Xref: icaen alt.alien.visitors:8216 alt.conspiracy:17589 alt.activism:30857 sci.skeptic:28624 misc.headlines:23384 alt.politics.bush:1986 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!gatech!bloom-beacon!eru.mt.luth.se!lunic!sunic!ericom!exucom.exu.ericsson.se!news From: exukjb@exu.ericsson.se (ken bell) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy,alt.activism,sci.skeptic,misc.headlines,alt.politics.bush Subject: Re: guns and criminals Message-ID: Date: 10 Aug 92 14:07:23 GMT References: <1992Aug4.015333.21023@s1.gov> <1992Aug4.224146.15920@adobe.com> Sender: news@exu.ericsson.se Organization: Ericsson Network Systems, Inc. Lines: 35 Nntp-Posting-Host: exupc85.exu.ericsson.se In article ccx018@cch.coventry.ac.uk (Leslie Griffiths (Griff)) writes: >From: ccx018@cch.coventry.ac.uk (Leslie Griffiths (Griff)) >Subject: Re: guns and criminals >Date: 5 Aug 92 07:23:18 GMT >In article <1992Aug4.224146.15920@adobe.com> pngai@adobe.com (Phil Ngai) writes: >>In article <1992Aug4.015333.21023@s1.gov> lip@s1.gov (Loren I. Petrich) writes: >>> And one should learn ways of self-defense using one's own >>>body, so one can deal with assailants not equipped with guns. >> >>How macho of you. My wife rejects your suggestion. So does my mother. >> >I've always thought that the best form of self-defense is to run away. Not >always practicable of course, but being fit-enough to leg it has its >advantages. >Cheers >-- >Griff \\ ccx018@uk.ac.cov >^^^^^ :-= ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > // The best defense is a good offense. (Hey, it's early, don't expect much.) I think we need an alt.right.on.target room to discuss gun control *BTW). ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Kenny Bell * Welcome to Mind Wars Ericsson Network Systems, Inc * Abstract Arts BBS 386-7907 P.O. Box 833875 * Severity with oneself is heroism. Richardson, TX 75083-3875 * --A.G.Sertillanges (France, 1943) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!dtix!darwin.sura.net!mips!news.cs.indiana.edu!lynx!carina.unm.edu!cary From: cary@carina.unm.edu (Ithlial the Archer) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Ley Lines Message-ID: Date: 10 Aug 92 17:34:13 GMT References: <63574@cup.portal.com> <1992Aug7.165152.11170@ryn.mro4.dec.com> <63702@cup.portal.com> Organization: University of New Mexico, Albuquerque Lines: 31 In article <63702@cup.portal.com> thad@cup.portal.com (Thad P Floryan) writes: >In article <1992Aug7.165152.11170@ryn.mro4.dec.com> >randolph@est.enet.dec.com (Tom Randolph) writes: > >|In article <63574@cup.portal.com>, thad@cup.portal.com (Thad P Floryan) writes > >Happy to oblige. >===> appears to revolve about the earth, but actually the moon and earth >===> revolve about their common center of mass. They are held together by > gravitational attraction and kept apart by an equal and opposite >===> centrifugal force. In the earth-moon system, the tide-producing force >===> on the earth's hemisphere nearer the moon is in the direction of the >===> moon's attraction, or toward the moon. On the hemisphere opposite the >===> moon the tide-producing force is in the direction of the centrifugal >===> force, or away from the moon. > Any explanation that treats centrifugal force as if it were a real force (which it most certainly is _NOT_ as any physicist, me included) is fundamentally fucked-up and wrong to boot. It is not a real force and sure doesn't produce tides. Anyone who has taken a bacis mechanics course can explain tides to you and if they mention 'centrifugal' their instructor should be given a boot to the head. Ithlial the Physicist-Archer My opinions, mine, mine, mine! To me, boxing is like ballet, except there's no music, no choreography, and the dancers hit eachother. Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!dtix!darwin.sura.net!mips!swrinde!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!pacific.mps.ohio-state.edu!linac!tellab5!jcj From: jcj@tellabs.com (JCJ) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re^2: Disinformation Agents at Work? Message-ID: <1992Aug10.172825.269@tellab5.tellabs.com> Date: 10 Aug 92 17:28:25 GMT References: <1992Aug7.210206.18458@mprgate.mpr.ca> Sender: news@tellab5.tellabs.com (News) Distribution: na Organization: Huh? Lines: 18 Originator: jcj@sunl20 Nntp-Posting-Host: sunl20 Leonard Spani writes: >The posters who label themselves skeptics are probably just afraid that >someone will realize that they are (heaven forbid) interested in the >subject so they act hostile ... Not always so, amigo! I am a skeptic but I *am* interested in hearing eyewitness accounts of unusual phenomena; how can one learn if one never observes? True, I don't believe in the ET hypothesis any more than I believe Elvis is working at K-Mart, but that doesn't mean I don't believe people aren't seeing *something*. >...The best way to ensure scientists avoid UFOs is to keep the >subject closely associated with the lunatic fringe and religious >cultists. Bingo. And judging by the loon quotient in a.a.v, I don't think you'll see much legitimate scientific interest any time soon. Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:11139 alt.alien.visitors:8219 sci.skeptic:28627 Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!stanford.edu!CSD-NewsHost.Stanford.EDU!Xenon.Stanford.EDU!amorgan From: amorgan@Xenon.Stanford.EDU (Crunchy Frog) Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day Message-ID: <1992Aug10.183841.24052@CSD-NewsHost.Stanford.EDU> Sender: news@CSD-NewsHost.Stanford.EDU Organization: Computer Science Department, Stanford University. References: <1992Jun5.011013.1412@beaver.cs.washington.edu> <63758@cup.portal.com> <1992Aug10.161733.27784@ryn.mro4.dec.com> Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1992 18:38:41 GMT Lines: 22 In article <1992Aug10.161733.27784@ryn.mro4.dec.com> randolph@est.enet.dec.com (Tom Randolph) writes: >In article <63758@cup.portal.com>, John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes... >>to two weeks. They have a pulse which is about a day and a half. They canCok >>move but not too fast, about seven inches in a period of 14 weeks. So >>there you have it spacefans, we should have a rock race. >>John Winston. > >So how come the rock I have as a paperweight on my shelf here has never moved >an inch in the six months it's been there? Maybe it died cuz I didn't know I >should feed it? You should have put a cute female rock just a few feet away from it. (BTW - If your rock is really dead through your negligence you can expect a call from the ASPCRBSRHT - American Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Rocks, Bricks, Stones, and Related Hard Things). >-Tom R. randolph@est.enet.dec.com C Frog Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:11140 alt.alien.visitors:8220 sci.skeptic:28629 Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!usc!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!The-Star.honeywell.com!umn.edu!lynx!carina.unm.edu!cary From: cary@carina.unm.edu (Ithlial the Archer) Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day Message-ID: <2z2myg+@lynx.unm.edu> Date: Mon, 10 Aug 92 18:03:53 GMT Organization: University of New Mexico, Albuquerque References: <1992Jun5.011013.1412@beaver.cs.washington.edu> <63714@cup.portal.com> <63758@cup.portal.com> Lines: 35 In article <63758@cup.portal.com> John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes: >Howdy all ya friends and neighbors: Some people say I'm not going to >get any respect unless I get serious so I'll give you a serious question; >Have you hugged your rock today? Dr. /demonde, a biologist in Lyon, France >left a rock on top of his electrocardiograph and when he came back after >being on vacation he saw that the rock had inpressed pulses on the machine. >It was found that rocks breathe, but only one inhilation every three days >to two weeks. They have a pulse which is about a day and a half. They canCok >move but not too fast, about seven inches in a period of 14 weeks. So >there you have it spacefans, we should have a rock race. >John Winston. Wow, John! You've posted some pretty nonbelievable stuff, but this takes the cake (and the bakery too). So is Dr. Demonde going to be publishing hs results in the New Engalnd Journal of Medicine or a similar scholarly periodical. Do some minerals make rocks faster? I want to know this before I start trials for my rock race team. I suppose all the training will have to be anaerobic! ;) Ithlial My opinions, mine, mine, mine! I bet the main reason the police keep people away from a plane crash is they don't want anybody walking in and lying down in the crash stuff, then, when some comes up, act like they just woke up and go, "What, was THAT?!" Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!n8emr!bluemoon!garys From: garys@bluemoon.rn.com (Gary Stollman) Subject: Re: Gary Stollman where are you? Message-ID: Sender: bbs@bluemoon.rn.com (BBS Login) Organization: Blue Moon BBS ((614) 868-998[024]) References: <1992Aug7.131636.9058@nntpd2.cxo.dec.com> Date: Mon, 10 Aug 92 08:11:46 EDT Lines: 34 timpson@acetek.enet.dec.com () writes: > > > Have you all noticed that Gary Stollman has been very quiet. > > Maybe they carted him of to the Tallahassee nut farm and BBQ again > > > Steve Food_for_the_Grays > > -- > ----------------------------------------------------------------- > | | > | My atheism, like that of Spinoza, is true piety towards the | > | universe and denies only gods fashioned by men in their own | > | image to be servants of their human interests. | > | | > | -- George Santayana | > | | > ----------------------------------------------------------------- > ***** Timpson, Unfortunately, I ain't even IN Tallahassee still, I am still in LA...TRYING to help my mom, who is still half paralyzed by a stroke...But it is nice of you to think of my well-being, thanks...I think... Gary Stollman This is from garys@bluemoon.rn.com who doesn't have his (or her) own obnoxious signature yet Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!pacific.mps.ohio-state.edu!ohstpy!vancleef From: vancleef@ohstpy.mps.ohio-state.edu Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Crop Circles? Message-ID: <13286.2a867a2f@ohstpy.mps.ohio-state.edu> Date: 10 Aug 92 14:16:15 EDT References: <14122@mindlink.bc.ca> <1992Aug10.070605.22969@cco.caltech.edu> Lines: 61 In article <1992Aug10.070605.22969@cco.caltech.edu>, keith@cco.caltech.edu (Keith Allan Schneider) writes: > Robert_Salesas@mindlink.bc.ca (Robert Salesas) writes: > >>> Keith Allan Schneider writes: >>> >>> Msg-ID: <1992Aug9.022331.9288@cco.caltech.edu> >>> Posted: Sun, 9 Aug 1992 02:23:31 >>> >>> Org. : California Institute of Technology, Pasadena >>> >>> Robert_Salesas@mindlink.bc.ca (Robert Salesas) writes: >>> >>> >> Keith Allan Schneider writes: >>> >> >>> >> Now wait a minute. Didn't some guys admit to doing all of those crop >>> >> circles? >>> >> It was a group of older guys. They took a 2x4 with some ropes and smashed >>> >> the >>> >> crops with their foot on the board... >>> >> >>> >> Of course, I assume that all of the skeptical people in alt.alien didn't >>> >> believe them. >>> >> >>> >> keith >>> >>> >Of course. I imagine you believe these couple of "older guys" fly around >>> the >>> >world at the speed of light making fake crop circles in fast forward? >>> >>> Who said anything about flying around the world? >>> >>> keith > >>I imagine that by saying "skeptical people in al.alien didn't believe them" you >>are implying that these "older guys" are the cause of crop circles. Since crop >>circles appear around the world, all the time, often in multiple places at the >>same time, then these "older guys" must be zipping around the world making fake >>circles. > >>Rob > > If these guys can make such formations, then I am sure that there are other > hoaxsters around the world that can do the same. Often in science, when there > are two theories to explain the same phenomenon, the simpler is adopted unless ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > evidence leads to the other. I think two guys with a board is a much simple ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Such reasoning is often naive. > theory than alien spacecraft. > > keith Kind of like a secret society of crop circle hoaxsters? Can I join? Does anyone have any information on these people? Who to contact? -Garrett > Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:11141 alt.alien.visitors:8223 sci.skeptic:28631 Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!cis.ohio-state.edu!pacific.mps.ohio-state.edu!linac!att!walter!phelix!mdl From: mdl@phelixsalt (Michael Lynch) Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day Message-ID: <1992Aug10.190311.13933@walter.bellcore.com> Sender: news@walter.bellcore.com Nntp-Posting-Host: phelix.bellcore.com Reply-To: mdl@phelixsalt (Michael Lynch) Organization: Bellcore References: <1992Jun5.011013.1412@beaver.cs.washington.edu> <63758@cup.portal.com> <1992Aug10.161733.27784@ryn.mro4.dec.com> <1992Aug10.183841.24052@CSD-NewsHost.Stanford.EDU> Date: Mon, 10 Aug 92 19:03:11 GMT Lines: 31 In article <1992Aug10.183841.24052@CSD-NewsHost.Stanford.EDU>, amorgan@Xenon.Stanford.EDU (Crunchy Frog) writes: |> In article <1992Aug10.161733.27784@ryn.mro4.dec.com> |> randolph@est.enet.dec.com (Tom Randolph) writes: |> |> >In article <63758@cup.portal.com>, John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes... |> >>to two weeks. They have a pulse which is about a day and a half. They canCok |> >>move but not too fast, about seven inches in a period of 14 weeks. So |> >>there you have it spacefans, we should have a rock race. |> >>John Winston. |> > |> >So how come the rock I have as a paperweight on my shelf here has never moved |> >an inch in the six months it's been there? Maybe it died cuz I didn't know I |> >should feed it? |> |> You should have put a cute female rock just a few feet away from it. |> |> (BTW - If your rock is really dead through your negligence you can expect a |> call from the ASPCRBSRHT - American Society for the Prevention of |> Cruelty to Rocks, Bricks, Stones, and Related Hard Things). |> |> >-Tom R. randolph@est.enet.dec.com |> |> C Frog When I think of all the rocks I've thrown, skipped, smashed, and otherwise abused, I shudder. Right now, as we speak, I may have one of the little buggers trapped in my tire tread, unknowingly spinning its slow little brains out on I-287. Mike Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!usc!wupost!gumby!destroyer!ubc-cs!mprgate.mpr.ca!mprgate.mpr.ca!spani From: spani@mprgate.mpr.ca (Leonard Spani) Subject: Re: Disinformation Agents at Work? Message-ID: <1992Aug10.180459.17899@mprgate.mpr.ca> Followup-To: alt.alien.visitors Keywords: UFO disinformation Sender: news@mprgate.mpr.ca Organization: MPR Teltech Ltd., Burnaby, B.C., Canada References: <1tymt#-.vere@netcom.com> <1992Aug7.210206.18458@mprgate.mpr.ca> Date: Mon, 10 Aug 92 18:04:59 GMT Lines: 52 In article , sheaffer@netcom.com (Robert Sheaffer) writes: |> In article <1992Aug7.210206.18458@mprgate.mpr.ca> spani@mprgate.mpr.ca (Leonard Spani) writes: |> > |> >I was thinking of different methods I would use to discredit UFologists |> >if I was a government: |> > |> >The best method I could come up with was disinformation, but not the "secret |> >area-51 alien base" kind. The best way to prevent UFologists from acquiring |> >scientific data would be to make sure that no scientist gets anywhere near a |> >UFO group. They would want to make sure that UFOs were studied by amateurs |> >without scientific support. The best way to ensure scientists avoid UFOs is to |> >keep the subject closely associated with the lunatic fringe and religious |> >cultists. The New Age movement provides the perfect cover for distributing |> |> Leonard, |> |> You and the other believers have done *far* more than any skeptic could |> ever hope to accomplish in scaring real scientists away from studying UFOs! |> You guys fall for the silliest hoax in the world in Gulf Breeze, insist |> that pieces of ice displaced by the space shuttle's jets are maneuvring |> alien craft, believe absurd yarns about |> people being floated Through the Looking Glass and out the |> window into UFOs, insist that the farfetched and mutually-contradictory |> stories about "crashed saucers" at Roswell are absolute truth: then you |> complain about how those nasty skeptics keep scientists from taking |> UFOs seriously! Robert, Have you have missed the point? You have just restated my argument. If you re-read it, you will notice that I wasn't talking about skeptics, I was talking about the negative effect "believerism" and the lunatic frings have on the study of UFOs. You also seem to have assumed I was a believer, and then told me a bunch of stuff that you are sure I believe in. I hope you put more thought into your books than your postings. |> -- |> |> Robert Sheaffer - Scepticus Maximus - sheaffer@netcom.com [...] -- *********************************************************************** | Leonard E. Spani | //!?\\ | (disclaimer-p) | | spani@mprgate.mpr.ca | \\?!// | t | *****************-<( "everybody thinks I'm paranoid" )>-*************** Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!centerline!noc.near.net!chaos!random.ccs.northeastern.edu!rogue From: rogue@ccs.northeastern.edu (Rogue Agent) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Gulf Breeze Six In The News Again Message-ID: <1992Aug10.185103.19306@random.ccs.northeastern.edu> Date: 10 Aug 92 18:51:03 GMT References: <63496@cup.portal.com> <1992Aug7.032346.21143@random.ccs.northeastern.edu> <1992Aug7.190558.4621@odin.corp.sgi.com> Sender: news@random.ccs.northeastern.edu Organization: Comp. Sci. @ NU Lines: 16 In article <1992Aug7.190558.4621@odin.corp.sgi.com> rodb@slugo.corp.sgi.com (Rod Beckwith) writes: > >RA, > >THE NAME IS ROD!! > ^^^^^ >Or wasn't there enough evidence to provide you with that information? > >ROD ROD ROD ROD ROD ROD ROD ROD Rod, I profusely apologize. I deleted the part of the original post that contained your name, and was too lazy to look back for it. Sorry. BTW, was this the only comment you have on my post? RA Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!centerline!noc.near.net!chaos!random.ccs.northeastern.edu!rogue From: rogue@ccs.northeastern.edu (Rogue Agent) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Crop Circles? Message-ID: <1992Aug10.185613.19361@random.ccs.northeastern.edu> Date: 10 Aug 92 18:56:13 GMT References: <14113@mindlink.bc.ca> Sender: news@random.ccs.northeastern.edu Organization: Comp. Sci. @ NU Lines: 8 In article <14113@mindlink.bc.ca> Greg_Goss@mindlink.bc.ca (Greg Goss) writes: > >Everyone in North America (TV ads) knows that crop circles are made by >enormous peanut butter/chocolate snack morsels. No, Greg - it's a bunch of drunk Greys in sunglasses & bikinis. RA Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!centerline!noc.near.net!chaos!random.ccs.northeastern.edu!rogue From: rogue@ccs.northeastern.edu (Rogue Agent) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Ride on John's Back, Please! (Was: Re: Get Off John's Ba Message-ID: <1992Aug10.191441.19491@random.ccs.northeastern.edu> Date: 10 Aug 92 19:14:41 GMT References: <63578@cup.portal.com> <63615@cup.portal.com> <1992Aug8.023601.22136@mprgate.mpr.ca> Sender: news@random.ccs.northeastern.edu Organization: Comp. Sci. @ NU Lines: 33 In article <1992Aug8.023601.22136@mprgate.mpr.ca> spani@mprgate.mpr.ca (Leonard Spani) writes: >In article <63615@cup.portal.com>, John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes: >|> Dear Friends and Countryman and women: I don't know who is the person >|> who determines when a collection is taken off but I would like to suggest >|> that this collection (July the 4th etc>) be taken off. I will add one or >|> more new ones, in the near future. If it is not taken off >|> then that will be fine also. >|> John Winston. > >Congradulations John! > >This post is the only one where I have had absolutly no damn idea what you >could possibly be talking about. Leonard - I think John's problem is a system-specific one relating to how Usenet news is handled at Portal. He's just not terribly articulate about it. John - I really think you need to talk to somebody at Portal about the Right Way to Do Things (tm) at Portal. The rest of us all use different systems to read news, some of them very different from yours. I don't know exactly what you mean by the term 'collections', but it sounds like all postings on a particular thread are concatenated together. Whatever the case, you really need to speak to somebody more knowledgeable about how things work at Portal and on the Usenet. Between your serial postings that should take only one message, unclear references to previous posts, and personal mail sent to thousands of sites, you're upsetting a lot of people. Find out how things work, why so many people are mad at you, and how to effectively get your messages across (no matter *how* weird :-) ). RA Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:11144 alt.alien.visitors:8228 sci.skeptic:28637 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!dtix!darwin.sura.net!jvnc.net!yale.edu!yale!gumby!destroyer!fmsrl7!lynx!carina.unm.edu!cary From: cary@carina.unm.edu (Ithlial the Archer) Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day Message-ID: <432mgq+@lynx.unm.edu> Date: 10 Aug 92 19:59:47 GMT References: <63758@cup.portal.com> <1992Aug10.161733.27784@ryn.mro4.dec.com> <1992Aug10.183841.24052@CSD-NewsHost.Stanford.EDU> Organization: University of New Mexico, Albuquerque Lines: 24 In article <1992Aug10.183841.24052@CSD-NewsHost.Stanford.EDU> amorgan@Xenon.Stanford.EDU (Crunchy Frog) writes: >In article <1992Aug10.161733.27784@ryn.mro4.dec.com> > randolph@est.enet.dec.com (Tom Randolph) writes: > >>So how come the rock I have as a paperweight on my shelf here has never moved >>an inch in the six months it's been there? Maybe it died cuz I didn't know I >>should feed it? > >You should have put a cute female rock just a few feet away from it. The tough part is geeting your rock to tell you what he really likes in a female rock! > >(BTW - If your rock is really dead through your negligence you can expect a >call from the ASPCRBSRHT - American Society for the Prevention of >Cruelty to Rocks, Bricks, Stones, and Related Hard Things). Good one! :) > >>-Tom R. randolph@est.enet.dec.com > >C Frog Ithlial Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!thad From: thad@cup.portal.com (Thad P Floryan) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Ley Lines Message-ID: <63774@cup.portal.com> Date: Mon, 10 Aug 92 13:27:10 PDT Organization: The Portal System (TM) References: <63574@cup.portal.com> <1992Aug7.165152.11170@ryn.mro4.dec.com> <63702@cup.portal.com> Lines: 44 In article cary@carina.unm.edu (Ithlial the Archer) writes: | Any explanation that treats centrifugal force as if it were a real force | (which it most certainly is _NOT_ as any physicist, me included) is | fundamentally fucked-up and wrong to boot. It is not a real force and | sure doesn't produce tides. Anyone who has taken a bacis mechanics course | can explain tides to you and if they mention 'centrifugal' their instructor | should be given a boot to the head. Oh? Then I suppose NASA fakes all those movies of high-G testing of potential astronauts in centrifuges, that Saddam Hussein's scientists faked using centrifuges to produce nuclear fuel, that centrifuges in laboratories for separation, blood testing, etc. are just covers for the real forces: alchemy and magic? :-) Do you also disagree that the earth-moon system revolves about its common center of mass? A fluid placed on a rotating object will appear to be "thrown" outwards due to inertia; you can demonstrate this easily by spinning a record on a turntable and noting that water, paint, whatever, on the surface will migrate outwards. What do you term this effect? And what do you term what happens in my "swing a bucket full of water" example? It's easy to run simulations (on a computer) of the earth-moon system where the centrifugal force is a tide-producing force causing a high tide on the hemisphere OPPOSITE the moon. If you don't want to call it "centrifugal force", suggest a new name and make Big Bucks ($$$) writing new books! :-) And apply for a government grant to update all their "wrong" reference docs (such as Bowditch, Nautical Ephermis, etc.). Thad P.S. Hmmm, maybe the reason UFOs spin is that they eject the space aliens across the cosmos using centrifugal force? :-) :-) :-) Thad Floryan [ thad@cup.portal.com ] Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!thad From: thad@cup.portal.com (Thad P Floryan) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Ley Lines Message-ID: <63776@cup.portal.com> Date: Mon, 10 Aug 92 13:36:14 PDT Organization: The Portal System (TM) References: <1992Aug5.174301.2719@random.ccs.northeastern.edu> <63702@cup.portal.com> <1992Aug10.150237.25838@ryn.mro4.dec.com> Lines: 25 In article <1992Aug10.150237.25838@ryn.mro4.dec.com> randolph@est.enet.dec.com (Tom Randolph) writes: | [...] | Well, thanks for typing all that, but it doesn't answer the questions. | What would happen to the tides if the Earth/Moon system could be made | stationary, i.e. "centrifugal force" were removed from the system? | Why do solar tides occur on both sides of the Earth? cary@carina.unm.edu provided an explanation of your "stationary" question in his answer in this thread (just-prior to my posting of the material from Bowditch). As regards solar tides: after "resolving" the earth-moon system to a common center of mass, then solve another 2-body problem with the earth/moon and the sun. As previously cited, the moon's effect on earth's tides is greater than the sun's though the tides are the result of both effects. BTW, let's not forget there are tides on the moon AND on the Sun, too. And note also that sunspots tend to "track" planetary positions much like tides on the earth "track" the moon's position relative to the earth. Thad Floryan [ thad@cup.portal.com ] Xref: icaen alt.alien.visitors:8231 alt.conspiracy:17593 alt.activism:30866 sci.skeptic:28639 misc.headlines:23389 alt.politics.bush:2014 Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy,alt.activism,sci.skeptic,misc.headlines,alt.politics.bush Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!wupost!sdd.hp.com!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!The-Star.honeywell.com!umn.edu!kksys.com!edgar!brainiac!lmt!alexa@county.lmt.mn.org From: alexa@county.lmt.mn.org (Dave Alexander) Subject: People bitching about this post! (was Re: UFO "October Surprise" and USA TAKEOVER?!) Message-ID: <1992Aug10.160749.19913@lmt.mn.org> Sender: usenet@lmt.mn.org Nntp-Posting-Host: alexa.lmt.com Organization: LaserMaster Technologies, Minneapolis, MN References: <1992Aug1.041842.19761@galileo.cc.rochester.edu> <1992Aug1.073525.15555@hubcap.clemson.edu> <829@tdat.teradata.COM> <1992Aug7.001302.8228@mprgate.mpr.ca> Date: Mon, 10 Aug 92 16:07:49 GMT Lines: 38 In article <1992Aug7.001302.8228@mprgate.mpr.ca>, spani@mprgate.mpr.ca (Leonard Spani) writes: > > In article , cary@carina.unm.edu (Ithlial the Archer) > [...] > > Enough already! > > Get this topic out of alt.alien.visitors. > What is wrong with you people anyway? Do you only read the net once a month? The original post that started the guns thing was about a dictatorship being imposed on the United States by George Bush after he canceled the November elections by declaring a national emergency, at which point ALIENS would take over the earth. So, in fact, the original poster had the following right and wrong: It WAS relevant to alt.alen.visitors, alt.conspiracy, sci.skeptic and alt.politics.bush. It should not, however, have been posted to alt.activism. Now quit bitching about this cross-posting! The net works this way: If you see a topic called: UFO "October Surprise" and USA TAKEOVER?!, you select it and read the first post. If you do not care to read any more then DO NOT READ ANY MORE TOPICS WITH THAT HEADING!! Get it? JEEZUS! -- Alex -- Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!wupost!sdd.hp.com!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!The-Star.honeywell.com!umn.edu!kksys.com!edgar!brainiac!lmt!alexa@county.lmt.mn.org From: alexa@county.lmt.mn.org (Dave Alexander) Subject: Re: PLEASE NO GUNS!! Message-ID: <1992Aug10.161023.19971@lmt.mn.org> Sender: usenet@lmt.mn.org Nntp-Posting-Host: alexa.lmt.com Organization: LaserMaster Technologies, Minneapolis, MN References: Date: Mon, 10 Aug 92 16:10:23 GMT Lines: 17 In article , nateh@quake.sylmar.ca.us (Nate Hawthorn) writes: > > Could someone please figure out where all this "gun" posts are comming from > and tell them to not post here? > > I have to read 100 messages just to get the 10 that are posted here to > alt.alien.visitors > > or even better, take all messages and filter them using the word "gun" and > then allow them to be posted here??? > (I'm just joking) > See my posting in this group entitled: "People bitching about this post! (Was: UFO "October Surprise" and USA TAKEOVER?!)" -- Alex -- Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!wupost!sdd.hp.com!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!The-Star.honeywell.com!umn.edu!kksys.com!edgar!brainiac!lmt!alexa@county.lmt.mn.org From: alexa@county.lmt.mn.org (Dave Alexander) Subject: Re: TAKE THE GUN DISCUSSION OUTTA HERE! Message-ID: <1992Aug10.161154.20028@lmt.mn.org> Sender: usenet@lmt.mn.org Nntp-Posting-Host: alexa.lmt.com Organization: LaserMaster Technologies, Minneapolis, MN References: <1992Aug7.182747.8126@ttinews.tti.com> Date: Mon, 10 Aug 92 16:11:54 GMT Lines: 12 In article <1992Aug7.182747.8126@ttinews.tti.com>, sorgatz@avatar.tti.com (sorgatz) writes: > > The subject line pretty much says it all, you people can read - the manifest > for this newsgroup is not discussions about guns or gun control. Please take > it to rec.guns or off to email, it has nothing whatsoever to do with anything > that is being discussed here. > See my post in this group entitled: "People bitching about this post! (Was Re: UFO "October Surprise" and USA TAKEOVER?!) -- Alex -- Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!wupost!sdd.hp.com!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!The-Star.honeywell.com!umn.edu!kksys.com!edgar!brainiac!lmt!alexa@county.lmt.mn.org From: alexa@county.lmt.mn.org (Dave Alexander) Subject: Re: Dulce Info Request Message-ID: <1992Aug10.161548.20091@lmt.mn.org> Sender: usenet@lmt.mn.org Nntp-Posting-Host: alexa.lmt.com Organization: LaserMaster Technologies, Minneapolis, MN References: <1992Aug7.152458.14453@usenet.ins.cwru.edu> <63628@cup.portal.com> Date: Mon, 10 Aug 92 16:15:48 GMT Lines: 16 In article <63628@cup.portal.com>, Jeffrey_-_Papineau@cup.portal.com writes: > > I'm not going to say where it is supposed to be. Good incentive for you all > to get the book and start doing some real good reading. I want to talk to > those whom have read it! I am about 1/8th of the way through now... I have read it. But don't encourage anyone else to read it since it's out of print now. They might be able to find a used copy somewhere. As for Matrix I, you'll just get laughed at if you ask for one of those. They are extremely rare. However, Matrix III is due in October. $55 from Arcturus Books in Stone Mt., Georgia. I'm gonna get mine! -- Alex -- Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!thad From: thad@cup.portal.com (Thad P Floryan) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Ley Lines Message-ID: <63777@cup.portal.com> Date: Mon, 10 Aug 92 13:40:38 PDT Organization: The Portal System (TM) References: <63574@cup.portal.com> <1992Aug7.165152.11170@ryn.mro4.dec.com> <63702@cup.portal.com> Lines: 8 Arrgh; in my just-prior answer I referenced "Nautical Ephemeris"; I meant the "Nautical Almanac". Given the importance of tides to international shipping, I'm sure the government would be interested in a correction (if, in fact, their official explanation of tidal cause is incorrect). Thad Floryan [ thad@cup.portal.com ] Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:11145 alt.alien.visitors:8236 sci.skeptic:28643 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!noc.near.net!chaos!random.ccs.northeastern.edu!rogue From: rogue@ccs.northeastern.edu (Rogue Agent) Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day Message-ID: <1992Aug10.193017.19604@random.ccs.northeastern.edu> Date: 10 Aug 92 19:30:17 GMT References: <1992Jun5.011013.1412@beaver.cs.washington.edu> <63714@cup.portal.com> <63758@cup.portal.com> Sender: news@random.ccs.northeastern.edu Organization: Comp. Sci. @ NU Lines: 23 In article <63758@cup.portal.com> John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes: >Howdy all ya friends and neighbors: Some people say I'm not going to >get any respect unless I get serious so I'll give you a serious question; >Have you hugged your rock today? Dr. /demonde, a biologist in Lyon, France >left a rock on top of his electrocardiograph and when he came back after >being on vacation he saw that the rock had inpressed pulses on the machine. >It was found that rocks breathe, but only one inhilation every three days >to two weeks. They have a pulse which is about a day and a half. They canCok >move but not too fast, about seven inches in a period of 14 weeks. So >there you have it spacefans, we should have a rock race. >John Winston. 'Dammit Jim, I'm a doctor, not a bricklayer!' - 'Bones' McCoy. I forget the episode's name, but it was one of the better ones (IMHO). If I'm not mistaken the aliens were called the Hoorta. John - your post mentions several specifics (name, location). Where can we find the original article? RA ps - I was going to cross-post to some rec.arts.star-trek group, but better judgement prevailed :-). Xref: icaen alt.alien.visitors:8237 alt.conspiracy:17596 alt.activism:30869 sci.skeptic:28645 misc.headlines:23390 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!cs.utexas.edu!sun-barr!west.West.Sun.COM!cronkite.Central.Sun.COM!texsun!exucom.exu.ericsson.se!news From: exukjb@exu.ericsson.se (ken bell) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy,alt.activism,sci.skeptic,misc.headlines,alt.politics.bush.talk.politics.guns Subject: Re: A racist argument against handgun control legislation. Message-ID: Date: 10 Aug 92 20:23:34 GMT References: <1992Aug1.162719.21334@mcshub.dcss.mcmaster.ca> <1992Aug2.114512.22853@lmpsbbs.comm.mot.com> <1992Aug2.162931.26755@mcshub.dcss.mcmaster.ca> <1992Aug4.124014.15095@lmpsbbs.comm.mot.com> <1992Aug5.092544.25579@etek.chalmers.se> Sender: news@exu.ericsson.se Organization: Ericsson Network Systems, Inc. Lines: 41 Nntp-Posting-Host: exupc85.exu.ericsson.se In article <1992Aug5.092544.25579@etek.chalmers.se> lindq@etek.chalmers.se (Johan Lindqvist) writes: >From: lindq@etek.chalmers.se (Johan Lindqvist) >Subject: Re: A racist argument against handgun control legislation. >Date: 5 Aug 92 09:25:44 GMT >markr@mot.com (Mark) writes: >|> >|> >>First of all, The question was why shouldn't LAW-ABIDING people own weapons. >|> >>Law-Abiding people don't murder people. (by definition) >|> >|> >|> As a matter of fact, my point is, Why should law-abiding people not be >|> allowed to own weapons ? >|> >|> Mark >Because if (all) people own weapons, they become more widespread, also >among criminals. And are peple born criminals? No. They become criminals >by oppurtunity. And one important thing when committing a crime like >robbery, murder or rape is to be able to threat and harm the victim, which >is easily done with a gun. Conclution: >If guns are not so wide spread, criminals would have a hard time getting >them, and violent crimes would, hopefully, be reduced. >______________________________________________________________________________ >Johan Lindqvist |Due to lack of interest, tomorrow >Gothenburg Mail: |has been cancelled. >Sweden lindq@etek.chalmers.se | >______________________________________________________________________________ No, no, no. This argument puts the cart before the horse. Reform the justice and penal system ("get tough of criminals"); then fewer people will resort to violent crimes. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Kenny Bell * Welcome to Mind Wars Ericsson Network Systems, Inc * Abstract Arts BBS 386-7907 P.O. Box 833875 * Severity with oneself is heroism. Richardson, TX 75083-3875 * --A.G.Sertillanges (France, 1943) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!wupost!csus.edu!netcom.com!payner From: payner@netcom.com (Rich Payne) Subject: Re: Ride on John's Back, Please! (Was: Re: Get Off John's Ba Message-ID: Date: Mon, 10 Aug 92 21:32:56 GMT Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest) References: <63615@cup.portal.com> <1992Aug8.023601.22136@mprgate.mpr.ca> <1992Aug10.191441.19491@random.ccs.northeastern.edu> Lines: 57 In article <1992Aug10.191441.19491@random.ccs.northeastern.edu> rogue@ccs.northeastern.edu (Rogue Agent) writes: >In article <1992Aug8.023601.22136@mprgate.mpr.ca> spani@mprgate.mpr.ca >(Leonard Spani) writes: >>In article <63615@cup.portal.com>, John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes: >>|> Dear Friends and Countryman and women: I don't know who is the person >>|> who determines when a collection is taken off but I would like to suggest >>|> that this collection (July the 4th etc>) be taken off. I will add one or >>|> more new ones, in the near future. If it is not taken off >>|> then that will be fine also. >>|> John Winston. >> >>Congradulations John! >> >>This post is the only one where I have had absolutly no damn idea what you >>could possibly be talking about. > >Leonard - I think John's problem is a system-specific one relating to how >Usenet news is handled at Portal. He's just not terribly articulate about >it. > >John - I really think you need to talk to somebody at Portal about the Right >Way to Do Things (tm) at Portal. The rest of us all use different systems >to read news, some of them very different from yours. I don't know exactly >what you mean by the term 'collections', but it sounds like all postings on >a particular thread are concatenated together. The portal system names directories 'collections', somewhat as the MAC calls them folders. I suspect that Portal dumps the incoming news into directories named after the newsgroups with the final directory named after the subject, hence he sees many collections. This would not be a problem if he subscribed to the groups, then all he would have to type would be "go subs;r" and he would be able to read the subscribed "collections". I think that John stopped trying to figure the system out when he could post, or thereabouts. There are many features in Portal that make the system easy to use. But quoting is still cumbersome. >Whatever the case, you really need to speak to somebody more knowledgeable >about how things work at Portal and on the Usenet. Between your serial >postings that should take only one message, unclear references to previous >posts, and personal mail sent to thousands of sites, you're upsetting a lot >of people. Find out how things work, why so many people are mad at you, >and how to effectively get your messages across (no matter *how* weird :-) ). I had promised to send him some pointers on vi, but I think now that this makes some unwarrented assumptions. He may be using straight text mode rather than vt100. > RA Rich payner@netcom.com Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!decwrl!pa.dec.com!nntpd2.cxo.dec.com!nntpd.lkg.dec.com!engage.pko.dec.com!verga.enet.dec.com!stanley From: stanley@verga.enet.dec.com Subject: Re: Disinformation Agents at Work? Message-ID: <1992Aug10.171429.16729@engage.pko.dec.com> Sender: newsdaemon@engage.pko.dec.com (USENET News Daemon) Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1992 18:11:22 GMT Lines: 8 In article , sheaffer@netcom.com (Robert Sheaffer) writes... > >No, if anybody is CIA here, it *must* be me. I agree, Robert... I've thought it was you for quite awhile now. Can you give us solid proof that you are not working for the CIA? Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!newsgate.watson.ibm.com!yktnews!admin!decalod-85!jdahl From: jdahl@rchland.vnet.ibm.com (Jared Dahl) Subject: Re: Re^2: Disinformation Agents at Work? Sender: news@rchland.ibm.com Message-ID: <1992Aug10.214641.9834@rchland.ibm.com> Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1992 21:46:41 GMT Distribution: na Disclaimer: This posting represents the poster's views, not necessarily those of IBM References: <1992Aug7.210206.18458@mprgate.mpr.ca> <1992Aug10.172825.269@tellab5.tellabs.com> Nntp-Posting-Host: decalod-85.rchland.ibm.com Organization: IBM Rochester Lines: 17 [lots of stuff deleted] I have seen a lot of the same discussion over on alt.conspiracy.jfk. Has anyone else here heard of anything similar on other "controversial" newsgroups??? -- =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= | Jared Dahl | I deserve respect for the things I did not do. | |(jdahl@rchland.ibm.com) | | | IBM, Rochester | -- Vice President Dan "the Man" Quayl(e) | =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Opinions expressed are mine, not Dan Quayle's or IBM's. I'm an alien from Sol 3...or North Dakota!! Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!newsgate.watson.ibm.com!yktnews!admin!decalod-85!jdahl From: jdahl@rchland.vnet.ibm.com (Jared Dahl) Subject: Re: THE CLINTONS ARE COMING,THE CLINTONS ARE COMING Sender: news@rchland.ibm.com Message-ID: <1992Aug10.215032.9915@rchland.ibm.com> Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1992 21:50:32 GMT Disclaimer: This posting represents the poster's views, not necessarily those of IBM References: <1992Aug8.095901.1812@usenet.ins.cwru.edu> Nntp-Posting-Host: decalod-85.rchland.ibm.com Organization: IBM Rochester Lines: 22 In article <1992Aug8.095901.1812@usenet.ins.cwru.edu>, an683@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Dean C. Gelston) writes: |> |> THE CLINTONS ARE COMING, THE CLINTONS ARE COMING, THE CLINTONS ARE COMING |> THE CLINTONS ARE COMING, THE CLINTONS ARE COMING, THE CLINTONS ARE COMING |> |> After all that is said and done if you give absolute power to the democratic |> party whom already controls congress,you may find yourself saying |> " Give me liberty or give me death ",Patric Henny, It's clear that the |> Democratic Party intends to be power monsters and only one super human |> person can save the world from dictatorship in a free land. vote REPUBLICAN! Like Clinton and Gore would be any different than Bush and Quayle. Like the Who said "Meet the new boss, Same as the old boss!" -- =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= | Jared Dahl | I deserve respect for the things I did not do. | |(jdahl@rchland.ibm.com) | | | IBM, Rochester | -- Vice President Dan "the Man" Quayl(e) | =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Opinions expressed are mine, not Dan Quayle's or IBM's. Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sdd.hp.com!wupost!csus.edu!netcom.com!payner From: payner@netcom.com (Rich Payne) Subject: Re: Ley Lines Message-ID: <=72ms+d.payner@netcom.com> Date: Mon, 10 Aug 92 22:05:57 GMT Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest) References: <63702@cup.portal.com> <1992Aug10.150237.25838@ryn.mro4.dec.com> <63776@cup.portal.com> Lines: 39 In article <63776@cup.portal.com> thad@cup.portal.com (Thad P Floryan) writes: >In article <1992Aug10.150237.25838@ryn.mro4.dec.com> >randolph@est.enet.dec.com (Tom Randolph) writes: > >| [...] >| Well, thanks for typing all that, but it doesn't answer the questions. >| What would happen to the tides if the Earth/Moon system could be made >| stationary, i.e. "centrifugal force" were removed from the system? >| Why do solar tides occur on both sides of the Earth? > >cary@carina.unm.edu provided an explanation of your "stationary" question >in his answer in this thread (just-prior to my posting of the material from >Bowditch). > >As regards solar tides: after "resolving" the earth-moon system to a common >center of mass, then solve another 2-body problem with the earth/moon and the >sun. As previously cited, the moon's effect on earth's tides is greater than >the sun's though the tides are the result of both effects. > >BTW, let's not forget there are tides on the moon AND on the Sun, too. > >And note also that sunspots tend to "track" planetary positions much like >tides on the earth "track" the moon's position relative to the earth. Since the solar rotation period is around 24 hours at the equator, and even the closest planet (Mercury) has an orbital period of about 88 days, I do not see what you mean by "sunspots tend to "track" planetary positions much like tides on the earth "track" the moon's position relative to the earth". > >Thad Floryan [ thad@cup.portal.com ] Rich payner@netcom.com Xref: icaen alt.sex:73480 talk.politics.guns:37776 alt.alien.visitors:8243 alt.postmodern:3776 alt.good.news:1362 alt.party:705 alt.flame:43127 misc.test:18423 alt.fan.warlord:6141 rec.pets.dogs:18989 alt.slack:3788 Newsgroups: alt.sex,talk.politics.guns,alt.alien.visitors,alt.postmodern,alt.good.news,alt.party,alt.flame,misc.test,alt.fan.warlord,rec.pets.dogs,alt.slack Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!sun-barr!apple!csl!roche.csl.sri.com!boucher From: boucher@roche.csl.sri.com (Peter K. Boucher) Subject: Re: The last word! Message-ID: <1992Aug10.225725.11829@csl.sri.com> X-Disclaimer: The views expressed in this message are those of an individual at SRI International, and do not necessarily reflect those of the company. Sender: news@csl.sri.com (NEWS Administrator) Nntp-Posting-Host: roche.csl.sri.com Reply-To: boucher@roche.csl.sri.com (Peter K. Boucher) Organization: SRI International, Computer Science Lab, Menlo Park, CA References: <1992Aug10.053133.12444@ringer.cs.utsa.edu> <1992Aug8.052946.14301@mintaka.lcs.mit.edu> Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1992 22:57:25 GMT Lines: 69 In article <1992Aug10.053133.12444@ringer.cs.utsa.edu>, dlaro@lonestar.utsa.edu (David O. Laro) writes: > > In article <1992Aug8.052946.14301@mintaka.lcs.mit.edu> > jrsmith@hal.gnu.ai.mit.edu (J. R. Smith III) writes: > >Dave I agree about confiscating all the guns being okay!!! This should put > >this matter to rest as any idiot can see it's right!! > > > > -- the Hefty Dude! > > > I'll wager you're NOT married... > For anybody to assume he's going to have "the last word!" on any subject, let > alone the confiscation of guns, is absolute lunacy. Not as long as "any i > idiot" thinks he can confiscate MY gun. I'm married and I *ALWAYS* have the last word, by God! It's always "Yes, dear," or the functional equivalent :) Xref: icaen alt.alien.visitors:8244 alt.conspiracy:17598 alt.activism:30877 sci.skeptic:28648 misc.headlines:23394 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sdd.hp.com!wupost!uunet!oracle!unrepliable!bounce Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy,alt.activism,sci.skeptic,misc.headlines,alt.politics.bush.talk.politics.guns From: mfriedma@uucp (Michael Friedman) Subject: Re: A racist argument against handgun control legislation. Message-ID: <1992Aug10.223834.13856@oracle.us.oracle.com> Sender: usenet@oracle.us.oracle.com (Oracle News Poster) Nntp-Posting-Host: appseq Organization: Oracle Corporation References: <1992Aug5.092544.25579@etek.chalmers.se> <1992Aug6.180124.5853@oracle.us.oracle.com> <1992Aug10.132118.1693@etek.chalmers.se> Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1992 22:38:34 GMT X-Disclaimer: This message was written by an unauthenticated user at Oracle Corporation. The opinions expressed are those of the user and not necessarily those of Oracle. Lines: 81 In article <1992Aug10.132118.1693@etek.chalmers.se> lindq@etek.chalmers.se (Johan Lindqvist) writes: >In article <1992Aug6.180124.5853@oracle.us.oracle.com>, mfriedma@uucp (Michael Friedman) writes: >|> >Conclution: >|> >If guns are not so wide spread, criminals would have a hard time getting >|> >them, and violent crimes would, hopefully, be reduced. >|> Your premise has an obvius corollary - law abiding citizens also would >|> be less likely to own guns. >Yes, I know. >|> Please explain why you think there would be more crime in a society >|> where gun ownership is widespread among both law-abiding citizens and >|> criminals than one where guns are rare in both groups. >Whith fewer guns, crimes would be less violent. At least that's what I >think. Do you agree on that? Nope. For example, any crime that includes me and does not include a gun is likely to get very violent very fast. That's what's happened in the past at least. Also, you have to look at crime levels - with more crime occurring there would be more violent crimes even if the average level of violence declined. Also, I don't see lowering the violence level as good in and of itself. A very violent crime in which a mugging victim blows away the mugger in a cloud of gunsmoke and fusillade of bullets is way better than a less violent mugging in which the victim is knocked down and the mugger gets away. >I don't think it's a law of nature that the US have such a high rate >of violent crimes, and part of it is due to the fact that weapons in >general, and guns in particular are considered as an expression of >'freedom'. I don't really understand why guns == freedom, but then, there's >a lot in the US I don't understand. Well, first off, guns alone aren't the problem. For example, the US-Canadian border is extremely porous going in towards Canada but guns don't seem to be smuggled north that much. Also, Canadians don't use knives on each other as much as guns either. (In fact, one of the interesting things about that famous study on Vancouver and Seattle is that the Canadians didn't use guns as much as the Americans, but they didn't use knives as much either. That's a clear indication that the differnece in the level of gun violence may have had causes other than gun laws.) Anyway, guns == freedom because if you have a gun and someone tries to take away your freedom you can kill him. >|> As a final exercise, please factor in the fact that criminals are, >|> almost by definition, more willing to break the law than law abiding >|> citizens and that therefore gun laws reduce gun ownership more among >|> law abiding citizens than among criminals. >Yes, I know. I don't know if it's possible to reduce the ammount of guns >among criminals in USA, but for instance here in Sweden, where guns are >not so wide spread, if you'd change the laws so that owning a gun became >legal for anyone, I think violent crimes would go up. Well, you can think that the sun rises in the West if it turns you on. What about a reason? >BUT if carrying a gun became illegal, police would be able to arrest >criminals on the charge of carrying a gun before they got the chance to rob >anyone. How would they know? Via ESP? >Also, guns wouldn't be considered 'natural', if you see what I mean. >(If you saw that someone had a gun, you would react and watch that persons >action, which might leat to that he (she) never got any chance to rob you. Well, here in the US people keep a close eye on people carrying weapons too. Unfortunately, they aren't really socially acceptable so people keep them concealed. (You would be amazed how many female execs have a little friend in their purses.) -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I am not an official Oracle spokesman. I speak for myself and no one else. Xref: icaen alt.alien.visitors:8245 alt.conspiracy:17599 alt.activism:30878 sci.skeptic:28649 misc.headlines:23395 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sdd.hp.com!wupost!uunet!oracle!unrepliable!bounce Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy,alt.activism,sci.skeptic,misc.headlines,alt.politics.bush.talk.politics.guns From: mfriedma@uucp (Michael Friedman) Subject: Re: A racist argument against handgun control legislation. Message-ID: <1992Aug10.224245.14103@oracle.us.oracle.com> Sender: usenet@oracle.us.oracle.com (Oracle News Poster) Nntp-Posting-Host: appseq Organization: Oracle Corporation References: <1992Aug5.092544.25579@etek.chalmers.se> <1992Aug7.003235.6500@adobe.com> <1992Aug10.130150.1431@etek.chalmers.se> Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1992 22:42:45 GMT X-Disclaimer: This message was written by an unauthenticated user at Oracle Corporation. The opinions expressed are those of the user and not necessarily those of Oracle. Lines: 47 In article <1992Aug10.130150.1431@etek.chalmers.se> lindq@etek.chalmers.se (Johan Lindqvist) writes: >In article <1992Aug7.003235.6500@adobe.com>, pngai@adobe.com (Phil Ngai) writes: >|> In article <1992Aug5.092544.25579@etek.chalmers.se> lindq@etek.chalmers.se (Johan Lindqvist) writes: >|> >And are peple born criminals? No. They become criminals >|> >by oppurtunity. >|> I guess females should not go out on dates with you because if you >|> get the "opportunity" to rape someone, you would do it. >|> Most decent people are not like you, of course. >No smileys ?????? No. Why should we? You weren't joking. >Because I hope you understood what I ment. But if not, I'll be clearer: >To me, dividing people in criminals and non-criminals are a mild form of >racism, Are you claiming that criminals are a separate race? Because if they are, then I'm an extremely virulent racist and damn proud of it. Unfortunately, however, they aren't and therefore any accusations of racism are absurd. >since I belive that peole can cange and that we are not ruled by >fate, but have a free will and are able to make desitions about how we want >to lead our lives. That's why I feel that putting someone in one of those >groups are a way to say "We are more worth than they are, because we were >born that way". Who said anything about how we are born? Maybe it's nurture, not nature. So what? >So what I meant was this: >A person isn't a criminal until he commits a crime. If he doesn't get >an oppurtunity, he probably can't be a criminal. Oppurtunity is ONE of the >neccesary things when turning criminal, not the only. >Life isn't black or white. Well, Johan, some people get opportunities but don't take them. Does this tell you anything? -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I am not an official Oracle spokesman. I speak for myself and no one else. Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!usc!sdd.hp.com!news.cs.indiana.edu!umn.edu!lynx!carina.unm.edu!cary From: cary@carina.unm.edu (Ithlial the Archer) Subject: Re: Ley Lines Message-ID: <492mwrd@lynx.unm.edu> Date: Mon, 10 Aug 92 23:47:31 GMT Organization: University of New Mexico, Albuquerque References: <63702@cup.portal.com> <63774@cup.portal.com> Lines: 69 In article <63774@cup.portal.com> thad@cup.portal.com (Thad P Floryan) writes: >In article cary@carina.unm.edu (Ithlial the Archer) >writes: > >| Any explanation that treats centrifugal force as if it were a real force >| (which it most certainly is _NOT_ as any physicist, me included) is >| fundamentally fucked-up and wrong to boot. It is not a real force and >| sure doesn't produce tides. Anyone who has taken a bacis mechanics course >| can explain tides to you and if they mention 'centrifugal' their instructor >| should be given a boot to the head. > >Oh? > Oh, yes! (stuff deleted) > >Do you also disagree that the earth-moon system revolves about its common >center of mass? > This hasn't got shit to do with centrifugal 'force.' > (more stuff deleted) >Thad > >P.S. Hmmm, maybe the reason UFOs spin is that they eject the space aliens >across the cosmos using centrifugal force? :-) :-) :-) > If the centrifugal pseudoforce was the case for things flying out of spinning saucers et cetera, then the ejecta would fly off along a radius and not a tangent since the centrifugal 'force' appears to be directed in that direction. Tie a rope around a rock spin it around, above your head, let it go which way does it go (be careful of breakable objects when you do this.) >Thad Floryan [ thad@cup.portal.com ] You post has more errors in assumption, logical flaws and gaping holes than I can correct/patch in a day. So I deleted alot of it. Look, the reason all of these things happen is that matter has inertia. This inertia makes it want to travel along a geodesic, in the 3 dimensional space we live in geodesics are straight lines. The only force involved is the force making it follow a non-geodesic trajectory like a circle. This force points in the opposite direction of the centrifugal 'force.' Centrifugal 'force' is a pseudoforce, it only seems that a force is acting upon you, the water or whatever. It can't do work. The assignment of centrifugal 'force' to a real force is a common mistake. If the force were real, then, since it is in direct opposition to the real force directing along, it would cancel out the real, directing force and the object would follow a straight line. However if you are going to try to post articles with alot of physics content you should bother to read a freshman level physics text before you make youself out to look like more of an ass (IMO) than you already have. :) Ithlial My opinions, mine, mine, mine! To me, boxing is like ballet, except there's no music, no choreography, and the dancers hit eachother. Xref: icaen alt.alien.visitors:8247 alt.conspiracy:17600 alt.activism:30880 sci.skeptic:28650 misc.headlines:23396 alt.politics.bush:2025 Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy,alt.activism,sci.skeptic,misc.headlines,alt.politics.bush Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!haven.umd.edu!decuac!pa.dec.com!rdg.dec.com!ryn.mro4.dec.com!est.enet.dec.com!randolph From: randolph@est.enet.dec.com (Tom Randolph) Subject: Re: UFO "October Surprise" and USA TAKEOVER?! Message-ID: <1992Aug10.224240.10666@ryn.mro4.dec.com> Sender: news@ryn.mro4.dec.com (USENET News System) Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation References: <15ka6sINNg4q@agate.berkeley.edu> <1992Aug4.034059.10005@mksol.dseg.ti.com> <1992Aug9.193609.14566@husc3.harvard.edu> <1992Aug10.151617.19365@mksol.dseg.ti.com> Date: 10 AUG 92 18:37:46 Lines: 10 In article <1992Aug10.151617.19365@mksol.dseg.ti.com>, mccall@mksol.dseg.ti.com (fred j mccall 575-3539) writes... >In article <1992Aug9.193609.14566@husc3.harvard.edu> rocher@husc8.harvard.edu (Jean-Marc Rocher) writes: - more gun stuff deleted - People, will you -please- take this to an appropriate newsgroup? You've been asked nicely, rudely, and indifferently several times. My courteous.little.netperson repertoire is about exhausted. -Tom R. randolph@est.enet.dec.com Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!cs.utexas.edu!qt.cs.utexas.edu!yale.edu!jvnc.net!rutgers!igor.rutgers.edu!dropout.rutgers.edu!mcgrew From: mcgrew@dropout.rutgers.edu (Charles Mcgrew) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Betty and Barney Message-ID: Date: 11 Aug 92 00:12:17 GMT References: <14060@mindlink.bc.ca> <1992Aug7.132924.15259@bwdls61.bnr.ca> Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J. Lines: 14 >Steve_MacDonald@mindlink.bc.ca (Steve MacDonald) writes: >Could some out there who is still talking about UFO's tell me the name of the >movie about the couple (I believe their names were Betty and Barney Hill) who >were apparently abducted by UFO's. Thanks Cigar Shaped Object (To which zenith89@bwdlh130.bnr.ca (Chris VanFleet) makes a completely useless and silly reply. You spend too much time at the terminal, Chris) ... the name of the movie was "UFO Incident", based on John Fuller's book "The Interruped Journey", which in turn was originally based on an article Fuller wrote for "Look" magazine in the fall of 1966. Charles Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!acd4!TEFS1!gvb From: gvb@TEFS1.acd.com (Gregg Brown) Subject: Re: We have met the enemy and they are us. Message-ID: <1992Aug10.213322.11168@acd4.acd.com> Sender: news@acd4.acd.com (USENET News System) Organization: Applied Computing Devices, Inc., Terre Haute IN References: <1992Aug7.145023.25274@acd4.acd.com> Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1992 21:33:22 GMT Lines: 198 In article nelson_p@apollo.hp.com (Peter Nelson) writes: >In article <1992Aug7.145023.25274@acd4.acd.com> gvb@TEFS1.acd.com (Gregg Brown) writes: >>In article nelson_p@apollo.hp.com (Peter Nelson) writes: >>> In the absence of ANY physical evidence of adbuctions the best you can >>> say about them is that they are *claims* of abduction. Some people >>> have scars, but scars don't tell you much about their origin and >>> certainly say nothing about abductions. Some people claim to have >>> had removed artifacts implanted by the aliens, but no one has ever >>> produced one of these for study. (although several have claimed to). >> >>Its amazing the correlation between the number of "mysterious scars" >>and people who "claim" to have been abducted. > > Is it? I've seen very widely varying estimates of the number of > the number of people who claim to have been adbucted, and no > consistent data about "mysterious scars". Do you have any hard, > verifiable numbers on these? If not then you can make no claims > about correlations. No, I don't have any exact numbers. However, I have seen and heard enough for me to realize there is a correlation. However, ET or Close Encounters doesn't produce the scars people uncover. These are scars they didn't know they had until after regression. Then, after experiencing the regression and realizing the events that took place, they look at parts of their body that they now remember was probed or examined and they find a scar they didn't know they had? > > >>> The sheer number of people making abduction claims means nothing --- >>> millions of people claim to have, or to have had, personal contact >>> with God (or the diety of their choice) but this doesn't offer much >>> persuasive evidence that God (or the diety of their choice) exists >>> or has the attributes they ascribe to . >> >>True. However, when many people who are not in contact in any way with >>each other start claiming and describing similar events, what are we >>to think? > > That they're all part of the same culture? Australian Aboriginal > accounts of Dreamtime are remarkably consistent across different > tribes which have no contact with each other, either. And they > didn't even have the unifying cultural force of mass-media. Yes, but isn't their dreamtime (which, I have to admit, I know nothing about) somehow related to their everyday lives? What you are implying here, correct me if I am wrong, is that because people have seen ET or Close Encounters they dream of images that include these fictitious beings. Could be true in some cases. More like IS true in some cases. > >> However, how much evidence do you haave to be presented >>for something to be considered a fact. > > Physical evidence. I don't apply any different standard to this > topic than I do to the relative reliability of Hondas to Chevy's, > whether exothermic cold fusion is real, whether there is a "hole" > in the ozone layer, or any other technical topic. I expect > some kind of decent data, research, etc, not just personal anec- > dotes and a total lack of physical evidence. I am afraid you are in error. Unless I am mistaken, landing spots, scars and miscellaneous physical effects are, what I consider, type 1 physical evidence. In other words, they, as the reliability of your Honda or Chevy example, are clearly visible to anyone (not). The fact that this is a more controversial subject, everyone, including yourself is throwing these pieces of evidence out as hoaxable. Your reliability of Hondas and Chevys example is also in error since, myself for years have sworn by Ford Motor Company for best relibility among American made cars. My friend, Joe, however swares by Chevy. He has vastly more problems than I do but still says Chevy is best. Swares they are more reliable. Swares the "extra" problems he has are external and not because its a Chevy. He blames the dealer, he blames the weather. Yet, I still have less trouble with my Ford. Its clear to me. Ford is more reliable. Its clear to him. Chevy is more reliable. Are you any relation to Joe? > I think abductions are an interesting phenomenon, but I have > never seen any reason to think that they are not merely an > interesting *psychological* phenomenon, and nothing more. > But, as always, I am willing to be convinced otherwise. No you're not. Neither is Joe. Oh, sure, if I called up my "UFO Buddies" and had them fly in and pick you up, you would believe. Doesn't take a great mind to believe in trucks when one runs over your foot. Fact is, your mind is made up. If I sent you a chunk of a UFO, you would say it was fake. If I sent you the hand of an alien, you would say it was fake. If I sent you a videotape, you would say it was fake. >>The "fact" remains that anything can be faked. We don't really know >> black holes are black holes. We don't really know galaxies are galaxies. >> It could be just claims by the scientific community. Back in the late >> sixties when the USA put the first man on the moon, there were a lot >> of people that didn't believe that either. > > The difference is that in the moon landing we didn't just have a > bunch of guys who *said* they went to the moon Not just a bunch of guys. LOTS of very credible people not inclined to do this as a cynical pursuit. >; we had photos, We have these. > videotapes, And these. > audio tapes, Not sure about these. > moon rocks, Type 2 Physical evidence, yes, we have it. Its real slim, but there. Its probably faked though. > elaborate equipment, and > purchase orders. None of these. Although, anyone who works in business knows about purchase orders. > (there's also a reflector up there now which > anyone can bounce a LASER beam off of). Now granted all of this > physical evidence could be faked but at least it's there for you > to examine to see if you think it's faked. Unfortunatly, the controversial nature of the subject prevents our access for various resons. > In the case of abduc- > tion reports we don't even have that. I'm not complaining that > the abduction evidence is fake; I'm saying no abduction evidence > is available for examination. Get us a video of someone being > abducted and then we can examine it and see if we think it's fake. Good luck. If you get access to such material, please let me know. I want a chance to, and probably will, call it a fake. > > > >>It might be night. Maybe it is! I may be wrong. However, in my opinion >>the abductions have been or are taking place. > > Yes, we've established that it's your opinion. You haven't offered > any reason why it should be OUR opinion. > > >>internal) shows there is something going on. What proof do you offer that > ^^^^^ >>these scars, landing spots and other misc. physical evidence does not >>prove something is going on. ^^^ > > (This should be an FAQ) The burden of proof is on the person making > the *positive* assertion; I'm under no obligation to try to "prove > a negative". This is simple logic; if you go to college you should > take a logic course. I have taken several. You need to take some law. Lawyers are constantly trying to prove a negative. Burden of Proof has nothing to do with it here. The fact is, there is certainly more facts to prove that it is happening than it proving that it isn't. > > >> I also believe Jesus Chist died for my sins. Why? Because I believe. > > When you get to college, go to the library (the big building with Get to college? Been there once. They taught narrowmindedness too. > all the books) and find a dictionary (typically a very big book > on a stand by itself in the Reference section -- ask the nice > lady who works there) and look up the word "tautology". Yes, I agree totally. At least I know how to classify your comments now and I know a new word. > > > >---peter Just for your information, I don't completly believe aliens are abducting people. I suspect it, thats all. Gregg. Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!olivea!sgigate!odin!slugo.corp.sgi.com!rodb From: rodb@slugo.corp.sgi.com (Rod Beckwith) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Dulce Info Request Message-ID: <1992Aug11.005407.14464@odin.corp.sgi.com> Date: 11 Aug 92 00:54:07 GMT References: <1992Aug7.152458.14453@usenet.ins.cwru.edu> <63628@cup.portal.com> <1992Aug10.161548.20091@lmt.mn.org> Sender: news@odin.corp.sgi.com (Net News) Organization: Silicon Graphics, Inc. Lines: 50 Nntp-Posting-Host: slugo.corp.sgi.com You guys write: In article <63628@cup.portal.com>, Jeffrey_-_Papineau@cup.portal.com writes: > > I'm not going to say where it is supposed to be. Good incentive for you all > to get the book and start doing some real good reading. I want to talk to > those whom have read it! I am about 1/8th of the way through now... >>I have read it. But don't encourage anyone else to read it since it's out of >>print now. They might be able to find a used copy somewhere. As for Matrix I, >>you'll just get laughed at if you ask for one of those. They are extremely >>rare. >>However, Matrix III is due in October. $55 from Arcturus Books in Stone Mt., >>Georgia. I'm gonna get mine! >>-- Alex -- Both volumes are available at East/West Bookstore in Menlo Park,Calif.They don't appear to be out of print here.It is a pretty hefty price($55-$60 dollars),especially in the format they are produced in.8.5'X11' paper,The quality of some of the print is not so good in some parts either. I did flip through them while I was there. Some interesting stuff,but there seems to be alot of regurgitated MJ 12 stuff,etc. One thing is for sure,somebody has alot os time to gather paper from all over the U.S. & the world. The way it is written seems to be reminiscent of Bill Cooper.......You make the call;-> Rod -- Rod Beckwith |$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ Datacom I/S |"The great obstacle of progress is not ignorance, rodb@corp.sgi.com|but the illusion of knowledge." |$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!wupost!darwin.sura.net!mips!news.cs.indiana.edu!umn.edu!lynx!apsicc.aps.edu!jim From: jim@apsicc.aps.edu (frost...) Subject: Re: Moon Activities?y Message-ID: <10AUG199218395094@apsicc.aps.edu> Date: Tue, 11 Aug 92 01:39:00 GMT Organization: Albuquerque Public Schools - Career Enrichment Center References: <14026@mindlink.bc.ca> News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41 Lines: 24 In article <14026@mindlink.bc.ca>, Steve_MacDonald@mindlink.bc.ca (Steve MacDonald) writes... >Just to let people know there was an incident in the 11th century where several >monks in England saw a large explosion on the moon. It scared the crap out of >them and they thought the world was going to end. It could be very possible >that they witnessed a large alien ship crashing on the moon or more likely just >regular alien lunar activity. > > no guns > Steve Macdonald Steve, Most people in the scientific community would not dispute this as it has been pretty well documented, at least as far as such observations could be at that time. The general concensus is that the monks saw a very large meteor or an as- teroid impacting the moon. We have had enough close calls of our own to discount this theory. Jim ps: Tungusta is for another time and probably prolonged debate. ====================================================================== We are rapidly ascending through prosperity to poverty... Twain Internet: jim@apsicc.aps.edu Albuquerque Public Schools - Instructional System Manager ====================================================================== Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!wupost!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!pitt.edu!gvls1!tredysvr!cellar!revpk From: revpk@cellar.org (Brian 'Rev P-K' Siano) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Disinformation Agents at Work? Keywords: UFO disinformation Message-ID: Date: 10 Aug 92 23:16:00 GMT References: Sender: bbs@cellar.org (The Cellar BBS) Organization: The Cellar BBS and public access system Lines: 46 sheaffer@netcom.com (Robert Sheaffer) writes: > >topic and turn off serious readers. > > No, if anybody is CIA here, it *must* be me. And since I don't know > who these Foard and Quinn guys are, and since I know that I'm not > CIA, therefore at least *I* can know that Mr. Vere is hallucinating. > Because if the CIA is paying off Foard and Quinn, they sure as hell > aren't getting their money's worth from THOSE guys. They'd be much > better off paying me instead. Just think of how much more debunking > I could do if I did this full-time! (No, of *course* I'm not a > full-time debunker. But I DO write very fast!). So the only reasonable > conclusion is either that nobody here is CIA, or else that the CIA > doesn't mind paying some guys mucho bucks to do 1% of what someone > else will do for free, in his spare time. In which case, they are > wasting much money, that could be better spent forging JFK documents, > or whatever. > > > -- Then again, one CIA hypothesis that's never gotten the airing I think it deserves goes as follows. Spooks work hard. It ain't easy doing what they doo, and since most of'em got recruited through college screenings of "In like Flint," "Matt helm," and James Bond movies, they _expected_ to be rescuing Anita Ekberg while super-villian Victor Buono or Gert Frobe threatened the world with a thermonuclear weapon. Not to mention the Dom Perignon. Instead, they find out they've got to read the leaflets of textile union organizers in Somalia, and summarize the damn things. I mean, these guys got cheated. So, they decided to see how many people would be willing to believe the most outrageous hypotheses possible-- sort of like L. Ron hubbard starting a religion, _get it?_ So, in essence, the entire UFO fiels is basically a colege prank by some well-funded frat boys with an attitude. No ulterior motive, no attempt to _control_ anybody or cover up anything-- just a few bits of metal here, a weather balloon there, maybe some Xerxoed-up papers sent to a select few... Hey, makes more sense than Area 51 or MJ-12. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Brian "Rev. P-K" Siano revpk@cellar.org "What? They have BIGGER DICKS?! _BOMB THEM!!!!_" Our Leaders, paraphrased by George Carlin Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!centerline!noc.near.net!chaos!random.ccs.northeastern.edu!rogue From: rogue@ccs.northeastern.edu (Rogue Agent) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Disinformation Agents at Work? Message-ID: <1992Aug11.005428.21154@random.ccs.northeastern.edu> Date: 11 Aug 92 00:54:28 GMT References: <1992Aug10.171429.16729@engage.pko.dec.com> Sender: news@random.ccs.northeastern.edu Organization: Comp. Sci. @ NU Lines: 29 In article <1992Aug10.171429.16729@engage.pko.dec.com> stanley@verga.enet.dec.com writes: > >In article , sheaffer@netcom.com >(Robert Sheaffer) writes... >> >>No, if anybody is CIA here, it *must* be me. > >I agree, Robert... I've thought it was you for quite awhile now. > >Can you give us solid proof that you are not working for the CIA? ^^^ I know the subject is sorta silly. But I'll be a party pooper and give a serious (sort-of) answer. You haven't been listening...it's impossible to prove a negative in a case like this. What's needed here is some positive evidence Mr. Sheaffer _is_ CIA. Either that, or drop the claim. RA ps to RS - X-encrypt-start *&Y^IUhnlkijhmiuhu87^(*&^(*HNBILUHUYTRF&^%RFE%&^$FE&%$fvuytFG*^%GVB^%*RGF^%RF68 IOUYH(*&^GB*97nb897nyb87nb86nb87VC*&^$DS#$%^#DS$%DS@^$%#^VC%8765v4c^%$CX^$%#CX9 IUYIU&H^*&H*&G*&NBV*&BV*&B*&G7699vb97vb58765v7V%&^VC*^VRCvutGVB*&^%BV&^(*B%976b (*&^G(*&G^B()*BGV(*&GB(&VB*VB*7b798VB*&^VB(*&V&D&&^$^%&DS^%$%^S$%#S$#@DS$%#@DS# X-encrypt-end :-) Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!cis.ohio-state.edu!ucbvax!agate!rsoft!mindlink!a3917 From: Steve_MacDonald@mindlink.bc.ca (Steve MacDonald) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Betty and Barney Message-ID: <14167@mindlink.bc.ca> Date: 11 Aug 92 02:31:08 GMT Organization: MIND LINK! - British Columbia, Canada Lines: 6 Thanks for that info Charles, I'm going to try and find the video right away. I was going to reply to that stupid response from that Chris person but then I decided it wasn't worth wasting my time on. I was just wondering if you know a pen pal of mine Tim Luken who lives in New Brunswick and I think teaches math at your U. He is crazy about rubber stamping. If you do know him say that steve says Hi!. Thanks Xref: icaen alt.alien.visitors:8255 alt.conspiracy:17603 alt.activism:30890 alt.politics.bush:2034 alt.politics.clinton:3468 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!dtix!darwin.sura.net!jvnc.net!yale.edu!think.com!unixland!eclipse From: eclipse@unixland.natick.ma.us (Mark Urbin) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy,alt.activism,alt.politics.bush,alt.politics.clinton,talk.politics.gusn Subject: Re: UFO "October Surprise" and USA TAKEOVER?! Message-ID: <1992Aug11.023209.23547@unixland.natick.ma.us> Date: 11 Aug 92 02:32:09 GMT References: <15ka6sINNg4q@agate.berkeley.edu> <1992Aug4.034059.10005@mksol.dseg.ti.com> <1992Aug9.193609.14566@husc3.harvard.edu> Organization: Unixland Public Access Unix & Think_Tank BBS Lines: 13 In article <1992Aug9.193609.14566@husc3.harvard.edu> rocher@husc8.harvard.edu (Jean-Marc Rocher) writes: >>Except, of course, for the constantly demonstrated fact that the >>problem isn't the guns OR their availability -- the problem is the >>loose nuts behind the trigger. They're going to exist whether you >>allow guns or not, and if you don't allow guns they'll just use cars, >>bottles full of gasoline, etc. >> >>Fred.McCall@dseg.ti.com - I don't speak for others and they don't speak for me. >YouNewsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy,alt.activism,alt.politics.bush,alt.politics.clinton,talk.politics.gusn Subject: Re: UFO "October Surprise" and USA TAKEOVER?! References: <15ka6sINNg4q@agate.berkeley.edu> <1992Aug4.034059.10005@mksol.dseg.ti.com> <1992Aug9.193609.14566@husc3.harvard.edu> Distribution: world Organization: Unixland Public Access Unix & Think_Tank BBS Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!dtix!darwin.sura.net!mips!news.cs.indiana.edu!lynx!carina.unm.edu!cary From: cary@carina.unm.edu (Ithlial the Archer) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Ley Lines Message-ID: <8_3my=l@lynx.unm.edu> Date: 11 Aug 92 02:23:25 GMT References: <63702@cup.portal.com> <1992Aug10.150237.25838@ryn.mro4.dec.com> <63776@cup.portal.com> Organization: University of New Mexico, Albuquerque Lines: 28 In article <63776@cup.portal.com> thad@cup.portal.com (Thad P Floryan) writes: > >And note also that sunspots tend to "track" planetary positions much like >tides on the earth "track" the moon's position relative to the earth. > > >Thad Floryan [ thad@cup.portal.com ] While not on par with John Winston's breathing rocks this is a pretty mind blowing statement. What IN THE HELL are you typing about?????? So is the Sun alive and breathing like the rocks also? Is it consciously tracking the planets? How does it slow down the strip of latitude containing the sunspots so it can track the planets which revolve around the sun anywhere from 88 to 100,000 times slower than it rotates? Or are the sunspots just cracks in the Sun revealing its zero degree kelvin core? Ithlial My opinions, mine, mine, mine! I bet the main reason the police keep people away from a plane crash is they don't want anybody walking in and lying down in the crash stuff, then, when some comes up, act like they just woke up and go, "What, was THAT?!" Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Ride on John's Back, Please! (Was: Re: Get Off John's Ba Message-ID: <63795@cup.portal.com> Date: Mon, 10 Aug 92 19:06:41 PDT Organization: The Portal System (TM) References: <63615@cup.portal.com> <1992Aug8.023601.22136@mprgate.mpr.ca> <1992Aug10.191441.19491@random.ccs.northeastern.edu> Lines: 7 ---- Creatures Great and Small: They won't let me use the word dear anymore. The information about the rocks comes from the current issue of the tabloid paper Weekly World News August 18, l992 page 9. Since Dr. Demonde and his colleague published their findings last spring, a furor has arisen in the scientific community. The two researchers' work has been ridiculed in some quarters. John Winston. Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!cs.utexas.edu!qt.cs.utexas.edu!yale.edu!jvnc.net!netnews.upenn.edu!msuinfo!whale.cps.msu.edu!wilbur From: wilbur@whale.cps.msu.edu (Brick Wilbur) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: What has been the big News? Message-ID: <1992Aug11.040124.23667@msuinfo.cl.msu.edu> Date: 11 Aug 92 04:01:24 GMT Sender: wilbur@whale.cps.msu.edu (Richard Wilbur) Organization: Dept. of Computer Science, Michigan State University Lines: 18 I've been on vacation for the last two weeks. Could someone catch me up on any big news from two weeks ago? John, don't send me any of your stuff PLEASE. (Like you would *mail* it...) I read some brief mention about something the Shuttle pilots saw...? What was that about? I have not found out anything new about Roswell or the abduction that happened in New York on the Brooklyn Bridge. This week I plan on talking to that researcher, again. Thanks, Brick Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!cis.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!agate!ames!data.nas.nasa.gov!taligent!apple!netcomsv!netcom.com!payner From: payner@netcom.com (Rich Payne) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Ride on John's Back, Please! (Was: Re: Get Off John's Ba Message-ID: Date: 11 Aug 92 03:51:31 GMT References: <1992Aug10.191441.19491@random.ccs.northeastern.edu> <63795@cup.portal.com> Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest) Lines: 18 In article <63795@cup.portal.com> John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes: >---- Creatures Great and Small: They won't let me use the word dear >anymore. The information about the rocks comes from the current issue >of the tabloid paper Weekly World News August 18, l992 page 9. Since ----------------- >Dr. Demonde and his colleague published their findings last spring, a furor >has arisen in the scientific community. The two researchers' work has >been ridiculed in some quarters. >John Winston. Well, that explains a lot. As an information source, the WWN is, shall we say, uniquely placed. :^) Rich payner@netcom.com Xref: icaen alt.alien.visitors:8260 alt.conspiracy:17610 alt.activism:30903 sci.skeptic:28660 misc.headlines:23407 alt.politics.bush:2042 Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy,alt.activism,sci.skeptic,misc.headlines,alt.politics.bush Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!pipex!warwick!coventry!ccx018 From: ccx018@cch.coventry.ac.uk (Leslie Griffiths (Griff)) Subject: Re: guns and criminals Message-ID: Sender: news@cck.coventry.ac.uk (news user) Nntp-Posting-Host: cc_sysh Organization: Coventry University References: <1992Aug4.224146.15920@adobe.com> Date: Tue, 11 Aug 1992 07:24:48 GMT Lines: 37 In article exukjb@exu.ericsson.se (ken bell) writes: >In article ccx018@cch.coventry.ac.uk (Leslie Griffiths (Griff)) writes: >>From: ccx018@cch.coventry.ac.uk (Leslie Griffiths (Griff)) >>Subject: Re: guns and criminals >>Date: 5 Aug 92 07:23:18 GMT > >>In article <1992Aug4.224146.15920@adobe.com> pngai@adobe.com (Phil Ngai) writes: >>>In article <1992Aug4.015333.21023@s1.gov> lip@s1.gov (Loren I. Petrich) writes: >>>> And one should learn ways of self-defense using one's own >>>>body, so one can deal with assailants not equipped with guns. >>> >>>How macho of you. My wife rejects your suggestion. So does my mother. >>> > >>I've always thought that the best form of self-defense is to run away. Not >>always practicable of course, but being fit-enough to leg it has its >>advantages. > >>Cheers > >The best defense is a good offense. (Hey, it's early, don't expect much.) I would agree, Its just that I wouldn't want to go around parts of New York with anything less offensive than a tank. And what happens when the criminals start carring tank-busting weaponry? >Kenny Bell * Welcome to Mind Wars I still say 'run away, run away'. But to appease the gun lobby, I perhaps one should paint a target on ones back - to give the criminal something to go for. Cheers -- Griff \\ ccx018@uk.ac.cov ^^^^^ :-= ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ // Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!Jeffrey_-_Papineau From: Jeffrey_-_Papineau@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: New LITE Beer Commercial with aliens Message-ID: <63827@cup.portal.com> Date: Tue, 11 Aug 92 01:34:05 PDT Organization: The Portal System (TM) Distribution: world References: Lines: 15 Yes, the slow and steady elevation of these images into our society is not a coincidence. I would really resent it, if I didn't understand it and just ignore it for the most part. I attended a symposium in Berkeley, and we went over the flood of media relating to Greys; Dockers comercial, talking about EBE's, the AT&T magazin ad in the New Yorker showing a person being beemed up, and a phone in his hand "At a time like this, whos phone would you rather own?", and many others. Remember, as far as our government is concerned, the only good alien is a bad alien... Jeff Papineau - No relation to JW. Portal is a large system. Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!cis.ohio-state.edu!pacific.mps.ohio-state.edu!ohstpy!vancleef From: vancleef@ohstpy.mps.ohio-state.edu Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Nazi plots (was Re: Gulf Breeze Six In The News Again) Message-ID: <13293.2a87158b@ohstpy.mps.ohio-state.edu> Date: 11 Aug 92 01:19:07 EDT References: <1992Aug7.012803.11738@nuchat.sccsi.com> <13270.2a85f20e@ohstpy.mps.ohio-state.edu> Lines: 68 In article , nelson_p@apollo.hp.com (Peter Nelson) writes: > In article <13270.2a85f20e@ohstpy.mps.ohio-state.edu> vancleef@ohstpy.mps.ohio-state.edu writes: >>In article , nelson_p@apollo.hp.com (Peter Nelson) writes: >>> In article <1992Aug7.012803.11738@nuchat.sccsi.com> seven@nuchat.sccsi.com (David Paulsen) writes: >>>>swarren@convex.com (Steve Warren) writes: >>>> >>>>Look around you. In just a few short years, the War On Drugs has desensitized >>>>us to things that would have made us scream "Police state!" before. >>> >>> >>> Oh, ca-ca! Read some history. The world didn't begin in 1970. >>> >>> In my parents' generation great works of literature such as >>> _Ulysses_ were banned. The Hayes Commission *ruled* Hollywood >>> protecting the "public morality". An employer could fire you >>> for living with someone you weren't married to. Blacks in many >>> states had to attend separate schools, drink from separate >>> fountains, etc. If the police beat you up there was no commission >>> or organization to complain to, etc, etc . . . >>> >>> Compared to the 1930's-1950's we're living in a #$%^! civil liber- >>> tarian utopia. Things would have to get a LOT worse just to get >>> as bad as they were then. >>> >>> >>> ---peter >>> >>> >> >>So its Ok to step backwards. Un-huh, yeah, right... > > > Are you a native English speaker? Do you have difficulty reading? > Where do you find any claim on my part that it is "OK" to step back- > wards? I posted specifically to take issue with the previous > poster's assertion that "the War On Drugs has desensitized us to > things that would have made us scream 'Police state!' before". It > is clear that "before" when we had even more of a police state > people were not in general screaming "police state". > > vancleef@ohstpy.mps.ohio-state.edu's posting illustrates a great > problem on this newsgroup and others. To address the issues here > requires a certain degree of intellectual rigor, a certain capacity > for critical analysis. If "vancleef" cannot read a simple, short > posting without reaching an erronious conclusion or generating a > nonsequitor, how can he hope to read accounts of UFO's critically? > How can he hope to understand scientific topics? One of the reasons > so many Americans are taken in by nonsense of all sorts is that they > never learned to READ and to THINK. > >>Keep kissing ass at HP peter, you'll go far in life, maybe even get >>promoted... > > In this economy I'm happy to have a job! > > > ---peter > I apologize for my unprovoked attack on you. I officially retract my rude insult at Peter. Have a nice day, -Garrett > Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Ride on John's Back, Please! (Was: Re: Get Off John's Ba Message-ID: <63840@cup.portal.com> Date: Tue, 11 Aug 92 06:17:46 PDT Organization: The Portal System (TM) References: <63615@cup.portal.com> <1992Aug8.023601.22136@mprgate.mpr.ca> <1992Aug10.191441.19491@random.ccs.northeastern.edu> Lines: 6 Dear Potential Rock Star Owners: The way Dr. Demonde proved that the rocks were moving was to put a time lapse camers on them and it was found that the rocks move very slowly (the fastest moved 7 inches in 14 weeks time) a sort of expanding and contracting motion as it hunched its way across the table. More to come later. John Winston. Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!ub!csn!scicom!paranet!p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Michael.Corbin From: Michael.Corbin@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Michael Corbin) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Betty And Barney Message-ID: <139648.2A877C01@paranet.FIDONET.ORG> Date: 11 Aug 92 06:10:02 GMT Sender: ufgate@paranet.FIDONET.ORG (newsout1.26) Organization: FidoNet node 1:104/428.0 - Could some out there who is still talking about UFO's tell me the name > of the > movie about the couple (I believe their names were Betty and Barney > Hill) who > were apparently abducted by UFO's. Thanks Cigar Shaped Object The name of the movie was Interrupted Journey. Mike -- Michael Corbin - via ParaNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Michael.Corbin@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!ub!csn!scicom!paranet!p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Michael.Corbin From: Michael.Corbin@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Michael Corbin) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Disinformation Agents At Work? Message-ID: <139649.2A877C03@paranet.FIDONET.ORG> Date: 11 Aug 92 07:32:03 GMT Sender: ufgate@paranet.FIDONET.ORG (newsout1.26) Organization: FidoNet node 1:104/428.0 - stay clear of UFOs. I know that some New Age cults are being used by > right wing neo-facists for their purposes, but has anyone done any > research > that would trace any New Age material back to a government agency such > as > the CIA? Some of the New Age material I have read seems to be > blatently manipulative. Almost like it was designed using a formula. It > is sometimes fairly obvious that whoever wrote it was underestimating > the > inteligence of the reader (like I wasn't supposed to be able to tell I > was > being manipulated.) Read UFOs: Past, Present and Future by Robert Emenegger. That contains some very interesting information gleaned by the intelligence community concerning automatic writing (a form of channeling). The point in this is that the information contained in that book is something that I have found to be possible disinformation as Emenegger has a background in intelligence. Just the mere mixture of that kind of material in the book with some of the other legit-sounding stuff would cause one to think that some of these claims might be valid. Mike -- Michael Corbin - via ParaNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Michael.Corbin@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!usc!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!ub!csn!scicom!paranet!p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Michael.Corbin From: Michael.Corbin@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Michael Corbin) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Dulce Info Request Message-ID: <139650.2A877C05@paranet.FIDONET.ORG> Date: 11 Aug 92 07:34:04 GMT Sender: ufgate@paranet.FIDONET.ORG (newsout1.26) Organization: FidoNet node 1:104/428.0 - I thought it was interesting that Matrix II sez that Dulce is not under > the Mesa, and that is why nobody can find.it. Almost as though, once the > news came out that it is around Dulce some where, it's actuall location > was > hidden by disinformation. > I'm not going to say where it is supposed to be. Good incentive for you > all > to get the book and start doing some real good reading. I want to talk > to > those whom have read it! I am about 1/8th of the way through now... > Got to go read! Pity! -- Michael Corbin - via ParaNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Michael.Corbin@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!usc!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!ub!csn!scicom!paranet!p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Michael.Corbin From: Michael.Corbin@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Michael Corbin) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Looking For Ummo Ufo Contact Book Message-ID: <139651.2A877C07@paranet.FIDONET.ORG> Date: 11 Aug 92 07:36:05 GMT Sender: ufgate@paranet.FIDONET.ORG (newsout1.26) Organization: FidoNet node 1:104/428.0 - I'm looking for the book; UFO CONTACT FROM PLANET UMMO, Volume I, > by Antonio Ribera. For those that don't know it is one of the > amazing series of UFO contact books from: If you're looking to purchase a copy, netmail me at mcorbin@paranet.org. Mike -- Michael Corbin - via ParaNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Michael.Corbin@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!dtix!darwin.sura.net!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!ub!csn!scicom!paranet!p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Michael.Corbin From: Michael.Corbin@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Michael Corbin) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Disinformation Agents At Work? Message-ID: <139652.2A877C09@paranet.FIDONET.ORG> Date: 11 Aug 92 07:49:06 GMT Sender: ufgate@paranet.FIDONET.ORG (newsout1.26) Organization: FidoNet node 1:104/428.0 - You also seem to have assumed I was a believer, and then told me a bunch > of > stuff that you are sure I believe in. I hope you put more thought into > your books than your postings. That is next to impossible considering that there is an ego that eclipses the rational. Mike -- Michael Corbin - via ParaNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Michael.Corbin@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!mcsun!uknet!edcastle!fofp From: fofp@castle.ed.ac.uk (M Holmes) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Crop Circles? Message-ID: <24754@castle.ed.ac.uk> Date: 11 Aug 92 14:55:56 GMT References: <1992Aug5.115146.14670@unislc.uucp> <1992Aug7.181652.26139@acd4.acd.com> <1992Aug8.065811.3941@cco.caltech.edu> Organization: Edinburgh University Lines: 27 keith@cco.caltech.edu (Keith Allan Schneider) writes: [...re the crop circles] >Now wait a minute. Didn't some guys admit to doing all of those crop circles? >It was a group of older guys. They took a 2x4 with some ropes and smashed the >crops with their foot on the board... > >Of course, I assume that all of the skeptical people in alt.alien didn't >believe them. Last year someone (can't remember who) posted the Law of Conservation of Skepticism while discussing exactly this issue. I think some folks had just demonstrated how to make crop circles (previously stated to be "impossible without leaving tracks.." apparently): 1) In any given paranormal scenario, the Believers will believe and the Skeptics will be skeptical. However once it's been shown how that the paranormal scenario can be accomplished by ordinary means: 2) The Skeptics will believe and the Believers will be Skeptical. >keith FoFP Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:11148 alt.alien.visitors:8270 sci.skeptic:28669 Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!srg!spica!dpipes From: dpipes@spica.srg (Dave Pipes x4552) Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day Organization: just me Date: Tue, 11 Aug 92 14:54:02 GMT Message-ID: <1992Aug11.145402.15398@srg.srg.af.mil> Followup-To: sci.skeptic References: <1992Jun5.011013.1412@beaver.cs.washington.edu> <63714@cup.portal.com> <63758@cup.portal.com> Sender: news@srg.srg.af.mil (Usenet news user) Lines: 22 In article <63758@cup.portal.com> John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes: >Howdy all ya friends and neighbors: Some people say I'm not going to >get any respect unless I get serious so I'll give you a serious question; >Have you hugged your rock today? Dr. /demonde, a biologist in Lyon, France >left a rock on top of his electrocardiograph and when he came back after >being on vacation he saw that the rock had inpressed pulses on the machine. >It was found that rocks breathe, but only one inhilation every three days >to two weeks. They have a pulse which is about a day and a half. They canCok >move but not too fast, about seven inches in a period of 14 weeks. So >there you have it spacefans, we should have a rock race. >John Winston. I wonder if this explains continental drift...:-) (Actually, I remember these shelves of rocks in high school. These were undisturbed behind glass for months at a time, and never shifted position. So the above is unlikely unless...dang...guess they were *dead* rocks... Guess you got me here, John :-) David Pipes robear@digex.com Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!hoptoad!pacbell.com!mips!swrinde!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!cleveland.Freenet.Edu!cc203 From: cc203@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (David R. Stepien) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Cattle Mutilations Message-ID: <1992Aug11.151634.9393@usenet.ins.cwru.edu> Date: 11 Aug 92 15:16:34 GMT Sender: news@usenet.ins.cwru.edu Reply-To: stepiend@rcwcl1.dnet.bp.com Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA) Lines: 86 Nntp-Posting-Host: cwns1.ins.cwru.edu > Let me precise this: I'd be delighted to find out I am wrong, and > that Aliens exist. Please give me the exact references of "An Alien > Harvest". Here it is: Book - An Alien Harvest - $50 Video - A Strange Harvest - $30 Available from: Linda Moulton Howe Productions P.O. Box 538 Huntington Valley, PA. 19006 The book is expensive, but it is an oversize hardbound volume with lots of full color photographs, copies of newspaper clippings, etc. The video has lots of shots of mutilated cattle, interviews with ranchers, law enforcement, scientists, etc. For anyone who is seriously interested in mutilations, I can not recommend researching these materials highly enough. There has been an immense amount of investigation done on the subject, and I can not hope to reproduce a fraction of the information here on the net. > Sure, the aliens can think very differently than us, but consider: > - they pick up cattle for experiment. Well, seems to me that this is > a behaviour that, although a little strange (after all they could have > kidnapped wild animals, fishes and so on, without too much fuss), is not > BEYOUND my comprehension. Cattle have DNA that is remarkably close to human DNA, which is one theory on "why cattle". For this reason cattle are used in medicine to produce human vaccines. Also, other species have been abducted and mutilated as well - dogs, horses, sheep. As domesticated animals are kept track of by their owners, their mutilations are probably more likely to be noticed than those of wild animals, if they are occurring. > I studied the "Blue Book" investigation, and found strange things. But no > HARD FACT. The Blue Book Investigation was a coverup. > I also recall reading that some scavengers leave similiar cuts, although > I do not recall which. This is debated in the video with experts who saw the cuts firsthand, and the conclusion is that it could not have been done by predators. They would leave tracks, could not drain ALL the blood from the body without leaving a drop on the ground, cannot cauterize incisions, do not chew in perfectly straight lines, etc. >>3. Surgery performed by a laser type cauterizing instrument. > >This part appears pure supposition to me. I would accept a statement >that the carcasses appeared to have had surgery by what -appeared- to >be a "laser type cauterizing instrument". But I have a problem with >this as a statement of fact. I'll agree with this one. Gotta be careful with your words in here. >> I might find it a tad difficult to cart ol' Bossie off, drain her >> blood and do a little dissection, and truck her back again, all >> however-many hundreds of pounds of dead meat of her, without either >> a whole crowd of people, or some heavy equipment. Given the logistical >> problems of transporting the carcass, I would think hiding the resulting >> tracks would be a DAMN difficult job. > >Well, Nancy let's look at that closely. If you ever happened to >watch some of those "Wild Life" reports on capturing some heavy >animal in Africa, you'll see you don't need a "a whole crowd of people", >but 4 or 5 persons. As for the "heavy equipment", no need for a heavy truck, >a small one and a hoist will do. Indeed, I see some logistical problems, but nothing >a cattle farmer could not handle. Hiding the tracks could take a little >time, but nothing extraordinary. Again, my point is: don't invoke >exceptionnal explanations when simpler explanations are available. No one could possibly drive a truck over vegetation and not leave any sign at all that it was there. Furthermore, there are documented cases where an animal was seen alive just hours before it was found surgically mutilated. This is just not enough time for humans to do the deed and remove all traces. And why would a human do this anyway? And how could they repeat the act thousands of times all over the U.S. and Canada, and overseas as well? These cases have been investigated with the rigor of human murder cases, and not a single suspect, or even clue, has ever been found. David ###### Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!cleveland.Freenet.Edu!cc203 From: cc203@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (David R. Stepien) Subject: Re: Crop Circles? Message-ID: <1992Aug11.152555.10275@usenet.ins.cwru.edu> Sender: news@usenet.ins.cwru.edu Nntp-Posting-Host: cwns1.ins.cwru.edu Reply-To: stepiend@rcwcl1.dnet.bp.com Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA) Date: Tue, 11 Aug 92 15:25:55 GMT Lines: 9 Crop circles have been found in fields of rape flowers in England. When the circles were formed, the plants were about as bendable as a stalk of celery. Everyone knows what happens when you try to bend celery - it snaps. Yet these plants were bent at perfect 90 degree angles without a break. Quote from "Crop Circle Communique" - "There is not a single botanist on the face of the earth that can explain how this occurred." Xref: icaen alt.alien.visitors:8273 alt.paranormal:5598 Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.paranormal Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!cis.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!agate!boulder!ucsu!cubldr.colorado.edu!crago_l From: crago_l@cubldr.colorado.edu Subject: Re: physical evidence Message-ID: <1992Aug11.092619.1@cubldr.colorado.edu> Lines: 27 Sender: news@ucsu.Colorado.EDU (USENET News System) Nntp-Posting-Host: gold.colorado.edu Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder References: <1992Aug9.015509.12070@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> Date: Tue, 11 Aug 1992 16:26:19 GMT Lines: 27 In article <1992Aug9.015509.12070@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>, gburton@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Garland O Burton) writes: > there are folks whom i tell of the abduction/eti/ufo phenom... > > they say "show us the physical evidence." > > can anyone suggest any? > > gb > > -- My guess would be that in most abduction cases the evidence is exactly the same as in rape, assault, and sometimes kidnap cases (where the victem is later released) i.e., the account of the victem; the victem's emotional condition as secondary corroboration; and physical marks, if any. Although it is standard for a rape victem to have a pelvic examination, female victems of abduction and pelvic intervention seldom if ever are examined immediately after the fact -- principally because there is generally an amnesia about the event imposed. One ofthe main differences between ordinary rape and *abduction/rape* is that when the victem reports what's happened to her, nobody says, Oh, there are no such things as rapists! You must be a nut! It's a crazy world,isn't it? Lou Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!timbuk.cray.com!walter.cray.com!uu55 From: uu55@cray.com (Ed Coffman) Subject: Re: Don's Posting Message-ID: <1992Aug11.103830.21190@walter.cray.com> Organization: Cray Research, Inc. References: <13974@mindlink.bc.ca> Date: 11 Aug 92 10:38:29 CDT Lines: 65 In article <13974@mindlink.bc.ca> a1432@mindlink.bc.ca (Gary D. Lee-Nova) writes: >I enjoyed Don's posting left here a few days ago. I am always amazed at the >amount of discussion his posts often create. > >This whole 'guns' discussion was precipitated by some info forwarded from >Washington State (C.A.C. if memory serves) to Don Allen somehow, and then Don >posts a copy onto this newsgroup. > >I think the 'guns' discourse and debate has gone on a bit too long. Don's post >was much more entertaining for me than some of this over heated topic of late >and the topic of the group is UFOs and related paraphanalia. I saw some UFOs, >once. They were up to some pretty amazing tricks. > >None of this disc/saucer/cigar shaped stuff. These were dots of light, way out >there, maybe 25,000 feet or more. Looked about as bright as first magnitude >stars. What these lights were up to out there was unforgettable. There were >four or five of them. They zig-zagged 90 degree turns in little staircase >patterns in the sky. One would wink into view, do the zig-zag trick, & end up >somewhere at the end of the pattern and then wink out. Then another, ( or two) >would perform the same trick, in different directions, but always about the >same distance. > >I watched this for about 30 minutes but I became so confounded that I got tired >of watching, wondering whether or not human beings had aircraft that could do >amazing tricks like this. If they did/do, I was pissed off about it being a >secret. > >This was in 1972, in the Similkameen River Valley, in South East British >Columbia. I'd seen lots of satellites go shooting across the night skies and I >still do when I'm out in the wilderness. But I haven't seen those zig-zagging >lights since that first sighting. > > Of course. Once, when i was a young boy about age 12, I too once observed these white stars zigg-zagging across the sky. It was during my summer holidays at Lake Tahoe, Zepher Cove camp grounds. My parents made me sleep outside in the cold on the ground. I lay awake talking to my cousin, when I see these crazy lights. Yea, they were very small, looking like medium bright stars. Thet zigged zagged between the dark sky and the bright stars at 90 degree angles. At that age, having seen the more classical cigar shaped ufos two years earlier, I thought it was neat. I also thuoght the bastards were watching me and that the years ahead in life would bring new sightings. But at 12 , being self centered, I was wrong. That was the last I ever saw of the damned things, only to think of them evre so oftem, or in this case whilst reading your article. I hope I see them again. Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!olivea!decwrl!pa.dec.com!nntpd2.cxo.dec.com!acetek.enet.dec.com!timpson From: timpson@acetek.enet.dec.com Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Ride on John's Back, Please! (Was: Re: Get Off John's Ba Message-ID: <1992Aug11.124233.1583@nntpd2.cxo.dec.com> Date: 11 Aug 92 12:42:33 GMT References: <63615@cup.portal.com> <1992Aug8.023601.22136@mprgate.mpr.ca> <63795@cup.portal.com> Sender: usenet@nntpd2.cxo.dec.com (USENET News System) Reply-To: timpson@acetek.enet.dec.com () Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation Lines: 38 >---- Creatures Great and Small: They won't let me use the word dear >anymore. The information about the rocks comes from the current issue >of the tabloid paper Weekly World News August 18, l992 page 9. Since >Dr. Demonde and his colleague published their findings last spring, a furor >has arisen in the scientific community. The two researchers' work has >been ridiculed in some quarters. >John Winston. John you are being ridiculed in this quarter and that quarter and every quarter. You have confirmed to the world that you are not operating on all cylinders. Anyone who reads let alone believes anything from "Weekly World News" is a very gullable person and deserves to loose the money they have wasted on the purchase as well as the redicule they receive from the world. You and Gary Stollman need to get together and have a nervous break down. Steve Food_for_the_Grays -- ----------------------------------------------------------------- | | | My atheism, like that of Spinoza, is true piety towards the | | universe and denies only gods fashioned by men in their own | | image to be servants of their human interests. | | | | -- George Santayana | | | ----------------------------------------------------------------- Xref: icaen alt.alien.visitors:8276 alt.conspiracy:17621 alt.activism:30922 sci.skeptic:28672 misc.headlines:23425 alt.politics.bush:2077 Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy,alt.activism,sci.skeptic,misc.headlines,alt.politics.bush Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!usc!sdd.hp.com!news.cs.indiana.edu!lynx!triton.unm.edu!swells From: swells@triton.unm.edu (Earth-daughter) Subject: Re: guns and criminals Message-ID: Date: Tue, 11 Aug 92 16:47:01 GMT Organization: University of New Mexico, Albuquerque References: <1992Aug4.224146.15920@adobe.com> Lines: 19 In article exukjb@exu.ericsson.se (ken bell) writes: the only use for ti kwon leep is self defense. you know who said that? Ki Lo Ni, the Great Teacher. oh, yeah? well, >The best defense is a good offense; you know who said that? Mel, the cook on "Alice!" shannon the mouthy pushy ranting broad channeling the Frantics. >Kenny Bell * Welcome to Mind Wars >Ericsson Network Systems, Inc * Abstract Arts BBS 386-7907 >P.O. Box 833875 * Severity with oneself is heroism. >Richardson, TX 75083-3875 * --A.G.Sertillanges (France, 1943) >------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!usc!sdd.hp.com!news.cs.indiana.edu!lynx!carina.unm.edu!cary From: cary@carina.unm.edu (Ithlial the Archer) Subject: Re: Ride on John's Back, Please! (Was: Re: Get Off John's Ba Message-ID: <=y3mfba@lynx.unm.edu> Date: Tue, 11 Aug 92 17:05:52 GMT Organization: University of New Mexico, Albuquerque References: <1992Aug10.191441.19491@random.ccs.northeastern.edu> <63795@cup.portal.com> Lines: 33 In article <63795@cup.portal.com> John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes: >---- Creatures Great and Small: They won't let me use the word dear >anymore. The information about the rocks comes from the current issue >of the tabloid paper Weekly World News August 18, l992 page 9. Since ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Which we all know to the be the pinnacle of journalism and scientific inquiry. N N OOO TTTTTTT ! NN N O O T ! N N N O O T ! N N N O 0 T ! N NN O O T ! N N OOO T o >The two researchers' work has been ridiculed in some quarters. Gosh, if you can get it published in the WWN then I would think it would be canon! ;) >John Winston. Ithlial My opinions, mine, mine, mine! The only good Troll is a dead Troll Collary: Trolls regenerate - There are no dead Trolls Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!The-Star.honeywell.com!umn.edu!lynx!apsicc.aps.edu!jim From: jim@apsicc.aps.edu (frost...) Subject: Angels and other things. Message-ID: <11AUG199211480555@apsicc.aps.edu> Date: Tue, 11 Aug 92 18:48:00 GMT Organization: Albuquerque Public Schools - Career Enrichment Center News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41 Lines: 20 Hello all, How about generating a litle discussion on a topic I haven't seen in this group since I started following it. What do you netters think about the so called 'Angel Hair' that has been found at various locations around the world. People have taken samples of this only to find that when they check their containers or whatever they put the stuff in that it has disappeared. The explanations I have heard have run from spider webs to chaff (which doesn't disappear) to material ejected or left behind by UFO's. Jim ps: A thought on this nagging 'gun' issue in this group. Whenever a new 'gun' issue pops up why don't we all just EMail a copy back to the original poster until these people get the idea of using the appropriate group. ====================================================================== We are rapidly ascending through prosperity to poverty... Twain Internet: jim@apsicc.aps.edu Albuquerque Public Schools - Instructional System Manager ====================================================================== Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:11149 alt.alien.visitors:8279 sci.skeptic:28678 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!sun-barr!cs.utexas.edu!qt.cs.utexas.edu!news.Brown.EDU!noc.near.net!hri.com!merrimack.edu!caina From: caina@merrimack.edu Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day Message-ID: <1992Aug11.134931.2078@merrimack.edu> Date: 11 Aug 92 13:49:31 GMT References: <1992Jun5.011013.1412@beaver.cs.washington.edu> <63714@cup.portal.com> Organization: Merrimack College, No. Andover, MA, USA Lines: 18 In article <63714@cup.portal.com>, John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes: > Dear Astral Convoy Participants: Now to give you a little more information > about the space craft item. At 800 PM Hawaii time the man I call E. the > Adept pulled his truch over to the side of the road. I appeared to him and > we went aboard a space ship. We did some sort of proceedure of holding > hands in a group for about 15 minutes and a few more people showed up. > It appeared that my arm had been injured and E. the Adept healed it. A person > came aboard that tried to start running everything. After all of this > happened J. of Penn. USA arrived back home and the horses out back of > her house were making a great amount of noise and it sounded like a fire > was in the stables but there was no fire. That's all folks. > John Winston. Truly an incredible story John...NOT! Is this all you have to do with your spare time? Talk about your drug trips and/or fantasies? Give it a rest and stop taking up some much band with! Alex Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!sun-barr!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!mips!sdd.hp.com!usc!hacgate!maxwell!frazier From: frazier@maxwell (Greg Frazier) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Ley Lines Message-ID: <22803@hacgate.SCG.HAC.COM> Date: 11 Aug 92 17:12:08 GMT References: <63774@cup.portal.com> Sender: news@hacgate.SCG.HAC.COM Lines: 53 X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4 thad@cup.portal.com (Thad P Floryan) writes: : In article cary@carina.unm.edu (Ithlial the Archer) : writes: : : | Any explanation that treats centrifugal force as if it were a real force : | (which it most certainly is _NOT_ as any physicist, me included) is : | fundamentally fucked-up and wrong to boot. It is not a real force and : | sure doesn't produce tides. Anyone who has taken a bacis mechanics course : | can explain tides to you and if they mention 'centrifugal' their instructor : | should be given a boot to the head. : : Oh? : : Then I suppose NASA fakes all those movies of high-G testing of potential : astronauts in centrifuges, that Saddam Hussein's scientists faked using : centrifuges to produce nuclear fuel, that centrifuges in laboratories for : separation, blood testing, etc. are just covers for the real forces: alchemy : and magic? :-) : : Do you also disagree that the earth-moon system revolves about its common : center of mass? Thad - There is one force involved in the Earth/Moon system; gravity. Gravity is what is excellerating the Earth and Moon around their common center of mass. There is no "force" pushing the Earth and Moon apart - what you are calling the "centrifugal force" is simply matter attempting to maintain a constant velocity (i.e. travel in a straight line at a constant speed). : A fluid placed on a rotating object will appear to be "thrown" outwards due to : inertia; you can demonstrate this easily by spinning a record on a turntable : and noting that water, paint, whatever, on the surface will migrate outwards. : What do you term this effect? The "common" term is to call it "centrifugal force". You and I, being educated, realize that there is no force pushing the water into the bucket, but rather the force you excert on the bucket is accelerating it (and the water) in a circle. When the water is above your head (before its apex), its velocity is upward; if you were to magically cause the bucket to disappear, the water would continue to travel up. Centrifugal force? NO! Momentum. Similarly, as you pass the apex and start down, the water stays in the bucket because the bucket is pulling is downward more quickly than gravity. Even in high school physics, we were taught that there is no such a thing is centrifugal force. As for your "conflicting" acounts of tidal effects (Assimov's vs. whoever), they sounded pretty much identical to me. -- Greg Frazier frazier@CS.UCLA.EDU !{ucbvax,rutgers}!ucla-cs!frazier Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!olivea!decwrl!deccrl!news.crl.dec.com!pa.dec.com!nntpd2.cxo.dec.com!nntpd.lkg.dec.com!ryn.mro4.dec.com!est.enet.dec.com!randolph From: randolph@est.enet.dec.com (Tom Randolph) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Ley Lines Message-ID: <1992Aug11.170305.8492@ryn.mro4.dec.com> Date: 11 Aug 92 19:49:53 GMT References: <1992Aug5.174301.2719@random.ccs.northeastern.edu> <63776@cup.portal.com> Sender: news@ryn.mro4.dec.com (USENET News System) Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation Lines: 14 In article <63776@cup.portal.com>, thad@cup.portal.com (Thad P Floryan) writes... >As regards solar tides: after "resolving" the earth-moon system to a common >center of mass, then solve another 2-body problem with the earth/moon and the >sun. As previously cited, the moon's effect on earth's tides is greater than >the sun's though the tides are the result of both effects. > >Thad Floryan [ thad@cup.portal.com ] Never mind, I give up. BTW, no one has used centrifugal force in orbit calculations since about the turn of the century. It's an old-fashioned idea, like the ether. References to follow shortly... -Tom R. randolph@est.enet.dec.com Xref: icaen alt.alien.visitors:8282 alt.paranormal:5599 Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.paranormal Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!cs.utexas.edu!wupost!sdd.hp.com!ux1.cso.uiuc.edu!m.cs.uiuc.edu!cs.uiuc.edu!mcgrath From: mcgrath@cs.uiuc.edu (Robert McGrath) Subject: Re: physical evidence Message-ID: <1992Aug11.195522.110@m.cs.uiuc.edu> Sender: news@m.cs.uiuc.edu (News Database (admin-Mike Schwager)) Reply-To: mcgrath@cs.uiuc.edu Organization: University of Illinois, Dept of Computer Science References: <1992Aug9.015509.12070@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> <1992Aug11.092619.1@cubldr.colorado.edu> Date: Tue, 11 Aug 1992 19:55:22 GMT Lines: 40 In article <1992Aug11.092619.1@cubldr.colorado.edu>, crago_l@cubldr.colorado.edu writes in part: |> One ofthe main differences between ordinary rape and *abduction/rape* is |> that when the victem reports what's happened to her, nobody says, Oh, |> there are no such things as rapists! You must be a nut! No, they say "You're making it up!" or "You led him on!" or "You said yes at the time!" or lots of other things that imply that she must be a nut. You imply that rape victims have a simple and easy time, which just ain't the way it is. Anyway, any case built on one witnesses testimony is pretty much untenable. You need to use the ordinary tools of investigation be applied: look for corroborating evidence and witnesses. (If I walk into the police station and tell them that I was kidnapped by Columbian-Iraqui-narco-terrorists, who tortured and raped me but left no traces, they'll tell me I'm nuts, even though beings MIGHT exist, and MIGHT even have kidnapped me. No evidence, no case, thats just the way it is.) Find witnesses and physical traces (paper records, bills, receipts) of the victim during the presumed time. This corroborates the general reliability of the victim's testimony and may lead to other good evidence. Gather evidence of the victims behavior right before and after the incident, etc., which may indicate what did or did not happen. Unfortunately, most abduction claims are made long after the fact in circumstances that are not conducive to solidly factual recollection--under hypnosis, in pseudo-therapy, after reading spectacular accounts of such events. This makes the claims difficult to establish as anything other than unpleasant fantasies. This is a very unsatisfactory situation, made much worse by the incompetent and nutty professional "investigators" that manufacture reams of false evidence through their misuse of hypnosis and powerful pseudo-theraputic situations. -- Robert E. McGrath Urbana Illinois mcgrath@cs.uiuc.edu Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!haven.umd.edu!darwin.sura.net!mips!sdd.hp.com!usc!noiro.acs.uci.edu!ttinews!usenet From: usenet@ttinews.tti.com (Usenet Admin) Subject: Re: K-2 Radio Transmission Message-ID: <1992Aug11.211855.323@ttinews.tti.com> Nntp-Posting-Host: avatar.tti.com Organization: Transaction Technology, Inc. Date: Tue, 11 Aug 1992 21:18:55 GMT Lines: 47 In article <1992Aug7.141449.25127@acd4.acd.com> gvb@TEFS1.acd.com (Gregg Brown) writes: >(click,click,click,click,click,click,thum-thump) at 1 cps for approx 12 min. >click/thump fades to: >(wwwwwoooooooowwwwwwwwwoooooooowwwwwwww) at about 1 cps >with a >...oooooowwwwwwtinklewwwwwooooo... about every 6 seconds (varies) >for about 30 minutes. wowowowow starts getting faster and faster (up to >about 5-10 wowow's a second) At that point the inherent tone of the wowow's >drops from about 500 hertz to 300 herts. The wowow's inherent pitch pick right >back up but volume is somewhat subdued. You then start (only way I could >describe) hearing "whalelike" sounds in the backgound. The wowowow's are >still present and start slowing back down to their original 1 cps speed. >Relative predominence of wowow and whale's song alternate for short period >of time. Tinkles are still present and have never faded but vary in their >frequency of appearance. This sequence goes for about 12 min. and then at >the last part of side two there is a definit "edit splice". What is >put on the tape to the end is the wowowowow at 1 cps with the >oooowwwwwtinklewwwwoooo's in it. This goes on for another 4 or 5 minutes. > >What is it you ask? Well, I find it very enjoyable to listen to. Makes me >very relaxed. Helps my tension headaches. From what I know of radio, >the click/thum-thump stuff could be over the horizon radar or an ionospheric >sounder. I wish they had flipped on the BFO during reception for a little >while, I could have determined either. The reciever was kept on AM the >entire time. Its kinda eerie to listen too. Especially the later parts. > >Anyone else heard this tape? Help me be more accurate in my descriptions Where would we get a copy of this tape? Better yet: What frequency was the sound recorded from?? MHz, KHz?? What time of the day? Where was this done? And with what equipment? Did you try SSB? FM? Any filters used? Let's get VERY specific about the source of the sound. I have a nicely equipped synthesizer studio and could most likely duplicate the sounds *exactly*. Hence it might be useful to be able to listen to the frequency, perhaps even use some DF techniques to determine the source of the sounds, etc. A radio-savy prankster could easily have been transmitting the stuff using a modern hf tranceiver, with full coverage from 100KHz to 30MHz and to the untrained it would seem quite mysterious. ps-to-the-gun-discussion: Why not take this to email or rec.guns, eh? It has not a thing to do with this newsgroup. -Avatar-> (aka: Erik K. Sorgatz) KB6LUY +-------------------------+ Citicorp(+)TTI *----------> panic trap; type = N+1 * 3100 Ocean Park Blvd. Santa Monica, CA 90405 +-------------------------+ {rutgers}!ttidca!sorgatz <- until 8/15/92 after-> (sorgatz@soldev.TTI.COM) Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!cs.utexas.edu!ut-emx!ibmchs!auschs!awdprime.austin.ibm.com!guardian.austin.ibm.com!wjc From: wjc@guardian.austin.ibm.com (Bill Collum) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Ley Lines Message-ID: <1992Aug11.195817.24063@awdprime.austin.ibm.com> Date: 11 Aug 92 19:58:17 GMT References: <63467@cup.portal.com> <63703@cup.portal.com> Sender: news@awdprime.austin.ibm.com (USENET News) Organization: IBM, Austin Lines: 12 John, I understand each of these words individually, but when you put them together this way...... ---------- Bill Collum, Consulting Computer Scientist (among other things) The opinions expressed above are my own, and unlikely to represent those of any other sentient entity, or groups of such entities.. Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!sun-barr!cs.utexas.edu!uwm.edu!psuvax1!psuvm!jls19 Organization: Penn State University Date: Tue, 11 Aug 1992 19:53:44 EDT From: Message-ID: <92224.195344JLS19@psuvm.psu.edu> Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Wanted: Linguist expert Lines: 10 I recently witnessed a girl channel an extraterrestrial entity and she started speaking in a very strange language. This went on for about 5 to 10 minutes. She appeared to be in some kind of altered state. We would both like to know what is being said! It sounds, very ancient (what do I know?) Anyway, any ideas out there? I am going to record it and I am willing to submit it to someone qualified for analysis. please private email as I may miss some of the postings. planet Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!cs.utexas.edu!csc.ti.com!tilde.csc.ti.com!fstop.csc.ti.com!tidss1!alanj From: alanj@dadd.ti.com (Alan Jones,AMJ1,) Subject: Re: physical evidence Message-ID: <1992Aug11.235412.8651@csc.ti.com> Sender: usenet@csc.ti.com Nntp-Posting-Host: tidss1.dadd.ti.com Reply-To: alanj@dadd.ti.com Organization: Texas Instruments, Inc. References: <1992Aug11.195522.110@m.cs.uiuc.edu> Date: Tue, 11 Aug 1992 23:54:12 GMT Lines: 51 In article 110@m.cs.uiuc.edu, mcgrath@cs.uiuc.edu (Robert McGrath) writes: >In article <1992Aug11.092619.1@cubldr.colorado.edu>, crago_l@cubldr.colorado.edu writes in part: >|> One ofthe main differences between ordinary rape and *abduction/rape* is >|> that when the victem reports what's happened to her, nobody says, Oh, >|> there are no such things as rapists! You must be a nut! >No, they say "You're making it up!" or "You led him on!" or "You >said yes at the time!" or lots of other things that imply that >she must be a nut. You imply that rape victims have a simple >and easy time, which just ain't the way it is. Geez, I didn't think he was implying that at all. >Anyway, any case built on one witnesses testimony is pretty much >untenable. You need to use the ordinary tools of investigation be >applied: look for corroborating evidence and witnesses. >(If I walk into the police station and tell them that I was >kidnapped by Columbian-Iraqui-narco-terrorists, who tortured and >raped me but left no traces, they'll tell me I'm nuts, even though >beings MIGHT exist, and MIGHT even have kidnapped me. No evidence, >no case, thats just the way it is.) This is quite true. But it seems that skeptics take the position that if there's no case, then it didn't happen, which isn't necessarily the TRUTH. And in your scenario, what if the kidnap/torture really happened? You'd certainly demand an investigation. And what if other cases started getting reported, worldwide, about kidnapping/torturing Columbian-Iraqui-narco-terrorists, and if there was a fair amount of commonality amongst the stories? Even if the case weren't provable in court, it would still make you think something significant was happening. >Unfortunately, most abduction claims are made long after the fact >in circumstances that are not conducive to solidly factual >recollection--under hypnosis, in pseudo-therapy, after reading >spectacular accounts of such events. This makes the claims difficult >to establish as anything other than unpleasant fantasies. But of course you're aware that these circumstances are not true for all such cases. This is a fairly typical stance taken by skeptics - to point fingers at the cases where a known hoax took place, or where a hypnotist led a person to fabricate a story. Why don't *we* focus our energies on looking at the really significant cases? Don't we all have the same goal? To know the TRUTH?? Unfortunately it seems clear to me that this is not the case - the goal of some skeptics is obviously to bolster their own egos by ridiculing and insulting those whose beliefs are not in alignment with their beliefs. (Please note that this is a general observation of the "skeptical community", and not directed at you, Robert.) --- sincerely, Alan Jones / Texas Instruments, Dallas, TX / email=alanj@dadd.ti.com Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!noc.near.net!chaos!random.ccs.northeastern.edu!rogue From: rogue@ccs.northeastern.edu (Free Radical) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Ride on John's Back, Please! (Was: Re: Get Off John's Ba Message-ID: <1992Aug11.224854.5375@random.ccs.northeastern.edu> Date: 11 Aug 92 22:48:54 GMT References: <1992Aug10.191441.19491@random.ccs.northeastern.edu> <63840@cup.portal.com> Sender: news@random.ccs.northeastern.edu Organization: Comp. Sci. @ NU Lines: 22 In article <63840@cup.portal.com> John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes: >Dear Potential Rock Star Owners: The way Dr. Demonde proved that the >rocks were moving was to put a time lapse camers on them and it was >found that the rocks move very slowly (the fastest moved 7 inches >in 14 weeks time) a sort of expanding and contracting motion as it >hunched its way across the table. More to come later. >John Winston. I saw the post previous to this, where John tells us the source for this breakthrough. Unfortunately it seems to have been swallowed by my system :-(. So I'll have to comment on this post, even though it doesn't contain the relevant quotes. John - do you consider the Weakly World News a reliable source? If so, why? Have you attempted to reproduce Dr. Demonde's findings to any degree? I realize you may not have a handy EKG or time-lapse camera - but have you attempted to verify that rocks do indeed move of their own volition, changing shape along the way? If not I suggest you do, and please post any findings. At a movement rate of 1/2 inch per week, it may take a few weeks before you see any results - but be patient. RA Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!cis.ohio-state.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!rpi!batcomputer!reed!henson!news.u.washington.edu!raven.alaska.edu!acad2.alaska.edu!asljl From: asljl@acad2.alaska.edu Subject: The Federation is still here Message-ID: <1992Aug11.155325.1@acad2.alaska.edu> Lines: 25 Sender: news@raven.alaska.edu (USENET News System) Nntp-Posting-Host: acad2.alaska.edu Organization: University of Alaska Date: Tue, 11 Aug 1992 19:53:25 GMT Hello All Yes, The Federation is still here, at the moment for those still interested, it is still here and still reachable. We still want to hear from people interested in it or new people interested in the Federation. For those of you who are new to the Federation ideas, this is what we are: We are a group of people who feel it is high time we got off this rock and started exploring the great unknown of space. We have drawn out in blue print form a drive system that is a a super semi conducting crystaline structure. It looks good on paper but we haven't been able to test it yet. As always the problem is money. The Federation has been working on a personal funds of the few members base at the moment. We do have a info packet that we will happy to give you. You must have a mac that has 5.0 microsoftword or better. Send us a 3.5 floppy and we will put it on there for you. send to this adrress The Federation C/O Lady Rhavyn Po box 231772 Anchorage, Alaska 99523-1772 If you have any questions feel free to send to this account. Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: what does _-_ mean? Message-ID: <63856@cup.portal.com> Date: Tue, 11 Aug 92 17:36:55 PDT Organization: The Portal System (TM) References: <1992Aug9.215244.16995@rhrk.uni-kl.de> Lines: 3 Dear Computer Folk: For once in my life I'm innocent. I didn't put those two __ in there. John Winston Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!cis.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!agate!agate!usenet From: william@moica.berkeley.edu (William E. Grosso) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Question Date: 12 Aug 1992 00:57:00 GMT Organization: University of California, Berkeley Lines: 18 Message-ID: <169nksINNhi1@agate.berkeley.edu> References: <92224.195344JLS19@psuvm.psu.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: pinoko.berkeley.edu In article <92224.195344JLS19@psuvm.psu.edu> writes: > I recently witnessed a girl channel an extraterrestrial entity and she > started speaking in a very strange language. This went on for about 5 to 10 > minutes. She appeared to be in some kind of altered state. We would both > like to know what is being said! It sounds, very ancient... Silly Question: If you don't know what the language is, how do you know it's an Extraterrestrial entity ? Bill Grosso Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:11152 alt.alien.visitors:8291 sci.skeptic:28701 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day Message-ID: <63859@cup.portal.com> Date: Tue, 11 Aug 92 18:09:31 PDT Organization: The Portal System (TM) References: <1992Jun5.011013.1412@beaver.cs.washington.edu> <63714@cup.portal.com> <1992Aug11.134931.2078@merrimack.edu> Lines: 9 Dear Rock Watchers: Dr. Demonde has found that rocks from around the globe breathe, but just one inhalation can take anywhere from three days to two weeks. They have also found that rocks also show signs of brain activity. Some scientist say they are impressed with the data. In a speech that the Doctor gave to a group of fellow biologists last month he said that we recognize that our findings are startling, and we need as much additional information as possible to back up our work. So, that's it folks. I think I'll name my rock Lurch. John Winston. Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!usc!hacgate!maxwell!frazier From: frazier@maxwell (Greg Frazier) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Ley Lines Message-ID: <22807@hacgate.SCG.HAC.COM> Date: 11 Aug 92 19:26:07 GMT References: <22803@hacgate.SCG.HAC.COM> Sender: news@hacgate.SCG.HAC.COM Lines: 12 X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4 frazier@maxwell (Greg Frazier) writes: : gravity. Gravity is what is excellerating the Earth and Moon accelerating, of course ^^^^^^^^^^^ : into the bucket, but rather the force you excert on the bucket : is accelerating it (and the water) in a circle. When the water ^^^^^^^^^^^^ see, I really did know how to spell it! -- Greg Frazier frazier@CS.UCLA.EDU !{ucbvax,rutgers}!ucla-cs!frazier Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Ley Lines Message-ID: <63861@cup.portal.com> Date: Tue, 11 Aug 92 18:26:33 PDT Organization: The Portal System (TM) References: <63467@cup.portal.com> <63703@cup.portal.com> <1992Aug11.195817.24063@awdprime.austin.ibm.com> Lines: 11 Dear Deep Thinkers: Please let me throw in a few occult facts here to stretch your brains. It has been said that the human life consists of 2,700,000,000 heatbeats. People with slower heartbeats usually live longer. I figured mine out and it came to 75 years. Turtles and elephants live longer because their hearts beat slower. Planets heartbeat (they vary of course) is about 27,000 years. The earth's heart beat is about 24 to 26 thousand years so how long will it last. It's been around for 4.5 billion years already. The next item is the fact that our scientists many years ago proved by putting bronze stakes in the earth and measuring the depth of earth around the stakes that cosmic dust and other things are settleing on the earth at a rate of one foot every thousand years.-----JW Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Ley Lines Message-ID: <63863@cup.portal.com> Date: Tue, 11 Aug 92 18:33:26 PDT Organization: The Portal System (TM) References: <63467@cup.portal.com> <63703@cup.portal.com> <1992Aug11.195817.24063@awdprime.austin.ibm.com> Lines: 6 ---My question is; How much has the Earth grown in those 4.5 to 4.7 billion year? Could this be the reason why forests are thousands of feet underground from which we get natural gas? Could this be the reason we find one city built on the ruins of another city with a clear clean layer of dirt between the cities? John Winston Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!munnari.oz.au!bunyip.cc.uq.oz.au!news.qut.edu.au!qut.edu.au!fitzsimmons From: fitzsimmons@qut.edu.au Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Just a test Message-ID: <1992Aug12.102218.52832@qut.edu.au> Date: 12 Aug 92 10:22:18 EST Organization: Queensland University of Technology Lines: 2 This is just a test message. Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:11153 alt.alien.visitors:8296 sci.skeptic:28707 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!usc!news.bbn.com!ingria From: ingria@bbn.com (Bob Ingria) Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day Date: 12 Aug 1992 02:53:59 GMT Lines: 16 Message-ID: References: <1992Jun5.011013.1412@beaver.cs.washington.edu> <63714@cup.portal.com> <1992Aug11.134931.2078@merrimack.edu> <63859@cup.portal.com> Reply-To: ingria@BBN.COM NNTP-Posting-Host: bbn.com In-reply-to: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com's message of 12 Aug 92 01:09:31 GMT In article <63859@cup.portal.com> John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes: Dear Rock Watchers: Dr. Demonde has found that rocks from around the globe breathe, but just one inhalation can take anywhere from three days to two weeks. They have also found that rocks also show signs of brain activity. Some scientist say they are impressed with the data. In a speech that the Doctor gave to a group of fellow biologists last month he said that we recognize that our findings are startling, and we need as much additional information as possible to back up our work. So, that's it folks. I think I'll name my rock Lurch. Tut, tut. I think you mean Thing. It's much more appropriate! -30- Bob Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!cis.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!agate!rsoft!mindlink!a3744 From: Steve_Sawyer@mindlink.bc.ca (Steve Sawyer) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: crop circles Message-ID: <14204@mindlink.bc.ca> Date: 12 Aug 92 02:55:08 GMT Organization: MIND LINK! - British Columbia, Canada Distribution: world Lines: 28 Let me provide you with an explanation (to the best of my ability given my current understanding of the English Language and your ability to comprehend an event that transcends the framework of perception) to the recent (they are recent) phenomenon of crop circles. We are a compassionate race, a civilization that is very much concerned with the welfare of all beings. Crop Circles are very simply the result of what I can only describe as an operation, perhaps equated to the scar one would be left with after an appendectomy. We have "introduced" a series of subtle energy pulsations that will influence the evolution of your very beautiful planet in a most postive manner. Please experience the joy one derives from contemplating the universal symbols expressed through the crop circles. They are representative of what you are, what I am, indeed they are an echo of the collective universal mind. . e Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!wupost!csus.edu!netcom.com!sheaffer From: sheaffer@netcom.com (Robert Sheaffer) Subject: Re: Disinformation Agents at Work? Message-ID: Date: Tue, 11 Aug 92 22:49:24 GMT Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest) References: <1992Aug10.171429.16729@engage.pko.dec.com> <1992Aug11.005428.21154@random.ccs.northeastern.edu> Lines: 46 >In article <1992Aug10.171429.16729@engage.pko.dec.com> >stanley@verga.enet.dec.com writes: >> >>In article , sheaffer@netcom.com >>(Robert Sheaffer) writes... >>> >>>No, if anybody is CIA here, it *must* be me. >> >>I agree, Robert... I've thought it was you for quite awhile now. >> >>Can you give us solid proof that you are not working for the CIA? > ^^^ Why, yes. I was just given a document by the Agency this morning proving that I do *not* work for them. In article <1992Aug11.005428.21154@random.ccs.northeastern.edu> rogue@ccs.northeastern.edu (Rogue Agent) writes: > >ps to RS - >X-encrypt-start >*&Y^IUhnlkijhmiuhu87^(*&^(*HNBILUHUYTRF&^%RFE%&^$FE&%$fvuytFG*^%GVB^%*RGF^%RF68 >IOUYH(*&^GB*97nb897nyb87nb86nb87VC*&^$DS#$%^#DS$%DS@^$%#^VC%8765v4c^%$CX^$%#CX9 >IUYIU&H^*&H*&G*&NBV*&BV*&B*&G7699vb97vb58765v7V%&^VC*^VRCvutGVB*&^%BV&^(*B%976b >(*&^G(*&G^B()*BGV(*&GB(&VB*VB*7b798VB*&^VB(*&V&D&&^$^%&DS^%$%^S$%#S$#@DS$%#@DS# >X-encrypt-end > >:-) -ps to RA - ;X-encrypt-start HOLEYCOWNOSHIT??????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! X-encrypt-end -- Rob^&t Sh*@ffer - Scepticus Mxximus - shexffer@+etcom.com P@st Chxi&mx+, Th^ Bxy Ar*x Skeptics - for whom I spexk o#|y when xuthorized! "B^w@&* whe+ the grext God |ets loose x thi#ker on this plxnet. Th^+ @|l thi#gs x&* xt risk. It is xs when x conflxgrxtion hxs b&ok^+ out i# @ gr*xt city, xnd no mxn knows whxt is sxfe, or wh^&* it wi|l e+d." - Em^&so+: Ess@y, "Circ|*s" Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!sun-barr!news2me.ebay.sun.com!jethro.Corp.Sun.COM!starflight!jdr From: jdr@starflight.Corp.Sun.COM (Jon Roland) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Disinformation Agents at Work? Date: 12 Aug 1992 04:16:08 GMT Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc. Lines: 45 Distribution: world Message-ID: References: Reply-To: jdr@starflight.Corp.Sun.COM NNTP-Posting-Host: starflight.corp.sun.com More interesting than wondering whether contributors to this group are part of a government or ET disinformation campaign is to speculate on what the possible motives for such a campaign might be. Persons inclined to be suspicious of the good intentions of government people might attribute such a campaign to: 1) Expectation on the part of the power elite that disclosure of alien visitation will jeopardize their positions, so that they need to cover it up to protect their interests; or 2) Expectation on the part of a fascist cabal that if they are allowed to work in secret, they can obtain alien technology that they can use to gain world power. However, those who are more inclined to think government types are mostly nice guys most of the time might think the motives are: 3) Concern that premature disclosure would upset and demoralize people and destabilize society, disturb economic and technical progress, and generally make things worse for everybody; or 4) Concern that we are an alien experiment and that if we find out we are and begin behaving differently as a result of that knowledge, we will lose our value as scientific subjects and be terminated. Better ignorant and alive than enlightened and dead? Could explain a few things. It least it could be the cover story used to motivate government agents. It is also interesting to ask why government or ET agents bother trying to perpetrate a coverup that is important enough to kill for while at the same time trying to avoid using lethal methods. What is holding them back? Could it be that no one knows who all the players are in this game, or what the rules are, or who is really making the rules? The next time you encounter someone you suspect of being a disinformation agent, you might ask him if he *really* knows who he is working for, or what his mission *really* is. Whether human or ET, he can't be entirely sure of anything, and in that we may have some common ground. --- jdr@starflight.corp.sun.com, starflt@uunet.uu.net Jon Roland Starflight Corporation, 1755 E Bayshore Rd #9A, Redwood City, CA 94063-4142, 415/361-8141 Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!usc!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.unomaha.edu!cwis.unomaha.edu!jcitro3 From: jcitro3@cwis.unomaha.edu (Joe Citro III) Subject: Re: crop circles Message-ID: <1992Aug12.043007.16792@news.unomaha.edu> Sender: news@news.unomaha.edu (UNO Network News Server) Organization: University of Nebraska at Omaha References: <14204@mindlink.bc.ca> Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 04:30:07 GMT Lines: 5 I am particularly enjoying the "crop circle" on the famous LITE beer commercial :) Joseph A. Citro III Xref: icaen alt.alien.visitors:8301 alt.conspiracy:17640 alt.activism:30963 sci.skeptic:28711 misc.headlines:23458 alt.politics.bush:2149 Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy,alt.activism,sci.skeptic,misc.headlines,alt.politics.bush Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!usc!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.unomaha.edu!cwis.unomaha.edu!jcitro3 From: jcitro3@cwis.unomaha.edu (Joe Citro III) Subject: Re: People bitching about this post! (was Re: UFO "October Surprise" and USA TAKEOVER?!) Message-ID: <1992Aug12.044642.17350@news.unomaha.edu> Sender: news@news.unomaha.edu (UNO Network News Server) Organization: University of Nebraska at Omaha References: <1992Aug10.160749.19913@lmt.mn.org> Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 04:46:42 GMT Lines: 50 alexa@county.lmt.mn.org writes: > In article <1992Aug7.001302.8228@mprgate.mpr.ca>, spani@mprgate.mpr.ca (Leonard Spani) writes: > > > > In article , cary@carina.unm.edu (Ithlial the Archer) > > [...] > > > > Enough already! > > > > Get this topic out of alt.alien.visitors. > > > > What is wrong with you people anyway? Do you only read the net once a month? > > The original post that started the guns thing was about a dictatorship being > imposed on the United States by George Bush after he canceled the November > elections by declaring a national emergency, at which point ALIENS would take > over the earth. > > So, in fact, the original poster had the following right and wrong: > > It WAS relevant to alt.alen.visitors, alt.conspiracy, sci.skeptic > and alt.politics.bush. > > It should not, however, have been posted to alt.activism. > > Now quit bitching about this cross-posting! > > The net works this way: > > If you see a topic called: UFO "October Surprise" and USA TAKEOVER?!, you select > it and read the first post. If you do not care to read any more then DO NOT READ > ANY MORE TOPICS WITH THAT HEADING!! > > Get it? > > JEEZUS! > > -- Alex -- > Well Alex the problem with the original post seems to be the fact that aliens were thrown into plot to make the post palatable for this newsgroup. However, what seems to be the irritating aspects are the followups to the original post (i.e. guns and criminals, a racist argument against gun control, and others). None of these posts have anything to do with aliens. As far as skipping posts goes... Some people have to pay for all services on the net whether a certain article is read or not. Fortunately I am not one of these people :) Joseph A. Citro III Xref: icaen alt.alien.visitors:8302 sci.skeptic:28712 alt.paranormal:5601 Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic,alt.paranormal Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!psinntp!ims.com!chapman From: chapman@ims.com (Dave Chapman) Subject: Re: physical evidence Message-ID: <1992Aug11.223749.17777@ims.com> Sender: usenet@ims.com (USENET News Poster) Organization: Integrated Measurement Systems, Inc. References: <1992Aug9.015509.12070@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> Date: Tue, 11 Aug 1992 22:37:49 GMT Lines: 21 In article , cass8806@elan.glassboro.edu (KYLE CASSIDY) writes: |> In article <1992Aug9.015509.12070@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> gburton@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Garland O Burton) writes: |> |> >there are folks whom i tell of the abduction/eti/ufo phenom... |> |> >they say "show us the physical evidence." |> |> >can anyone suggest any? |> |> capture an alien. Any one capable of building an interstellar craft will be able to build other smaller artifacts that are clearly beyond our ability to make. For instance a lap top computer given to an abductee in 1955 would have been very credible physical evidence. Now of course you will have to come up with something fancier than a lap top computer. -- Dave Chapman | The chickens are in the air. Integrated Measurement Systems | 9525 SW Gemini Dr. | work 503 626 5373 Beaverton, Oregon | chapman@ims.com Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!bcstec!bcsaic!kuryakin From: kuryakin@bcsaic.boeing.com (Rick Pavek) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Crop Circles? Message-ID: <80000@bcsaic.boeing.com> Date: 11 Aug 92 16:44:38 GMT References: <1992Aug8.065811.3941@cco.caltech.edu> <3246@bcstec.ca.boeing.com> <1992Aug10.070053.22751@cco.caltech.edu> Organization: Boeing Computer Services AI Center, Seattle Lines: 44 In article <1992Aug10.070053.22751@cco.caltech.edu> keith@cco.caltech.edu (Keith Allan Schneider) writes: > >So, you feel that although a method has been shown to create these circles, >the only way that they could have been formed is by some type of advanced >aircraft? > > >If they could do it, why not others like them? > >What? When they confessed, they made a circle for the reporters, just like >the others. > >What better time to do it than when no one will catch you. I can walk around >in the dark and fog; can't you? > >Now tha teveryone knows how to do it, it is not surprising that there are >others. > >I doubt that any aliens or government people would have created such circles. >There is no reason for it. Why land in the middle of crops, making a stange >formation that will get people suspicious when you could easily land in some >other place that would leave no such "evidence." Come on, there is much more >convicing evidence than these hozx formations. > While I'm willing to admit the possibility that all crop circles could be caused by human terrestrials (and I think many of them were) are you willing to admit the possibility that some of them may not have been produced by the stated means? (I'm not saying that you believe that some of them WERE created by other means, just that the possibility exists that some of them MAY have been caused by means other than humans... :-) Will you grant me that much? It's a sucker bet. If you say no that means you have a closed mind to the subject. If that's the case, keep my net address. If there ever is a big revealing, or general 'contact', I want to know how you explain it... ;-) Rick -- Rick Pavek v-------------------------------v kuryakin@bcstec.boeing.com v Si Ego Certiorem Faciam... v AppleLink: kuryakin v ...Mihi Tu Delendus Eris v GEnie: r.pavek1 v-------------------------------v Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:11155 alt.alien.visitors:8304 sci.skeptic:28713 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!bcstec!bcsaic!kuryakin From: kuryakin@bcsaic.boeing.com (Rick Pavek) Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day Message-ID: <80001@bcsaic.boeing.com> Date: 11 Aug 92 16:49:53 GMT References: <1992Jun5.011013.1412@beaver.cs.washington.edu> <63714@cup.portal.com> <63758@cup.portal.com> Organization: Boeing Computer Services AI Center, Seattle Lines: 21 In article <63758@cup.portal.com> John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes: >left a rock on top of his electrocardiograph and when he came back after >being on vacation he saw that the rock had inpressed pulses on the machine. >It was found that rocks breathe, but only one inhilation every three days >to two weeks. They have a pulse which is about a day and a half. They canCok The REALLY amazing thing is that the rock was able to change the paper on the EKG machine. All this while being stangled with the electrodes... (Where DO you put the electrodes on a rock?) I'd like to see the original article. UNLESS it's in the National Enquirer or similar... then I'd like to line my canaries cage with it. Rick -- Rick Pavek v-------------------------------v kuryakin@bcstec.boeing.com v Si Ego Certiorem Faciam... v AppleLink: kuryakin v ...Mihi Tu Delendus Eris v GEnie: r.pavek1 v-------------------------------v Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!bcstec!bcsaic!kuryakin From: kuryakin@bcsaic.boeing.com (Rick Pavek) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Re^2: Disinformation Agents at Work? Message-ID: <80009@bcsaic.boeing.com> Date: 11 Aug 92 17:33:49 GMT References: <1992Aug7.210206.18458@mprgate.mpr.ca> <1992Aug10.172825.269@tellab5.tellabs.com> Distribution: na Organization: Boeing Computer Services AI Center, Seattle Lines: 81 In article <1992Aug10.172825.269@tellab5.tellabs.com> jcj@tellabs.com (JCJ) writes: > >Bingo. And judging by the loon quotient in a.a.v, I don't >think you'll see much legitimate scientific interest any time soon. I shudder to think that all this debunking that's been going on, has basically been debunking email claims. Nothing has been quoted, no sources have been passed, yet people are pointing to email and and not going back to original sources... Skeptics jump on the email and disprove the validity of the email comments, but don't seem to want to go back to debunk the original material. Email is quite easy to debunk. Press 'n', K, or whatever combination you feel necessary to comment on it, but how many of you skeptics bother to read any of the original material and the serious refutations to your claims? (OK, how many skeptics does it take to replace a lightbulb?) (None, no one has ever convinced a skeptic that lightbulbs exist...) The skeptic has the most to lose because he has put all his money on the absolute bet. All the skeptic's faith is riding on the negative. There is no room for compromise, no room for the possibility of other explanations. This is the type that will disbelieve even when face-to-face with the actual item. The skeptic looks up to Phil Klass (who was snubbed by the Condon Committee) as a role-model... well ok, that's subjective. While it might be true, I don't have any physical evidence that this condition exists. ;-) While I have yet to see one land in my neighborhood, I won't rule out the possibility. While I do have my opinions on the subject, I won't even rule out the possibility that pictures are faked and a large number of fakes and con-artists make money off the subject. One of the easiest ways to spot the fake is to watch the claim over time. George Adamski had really neat looking spacecraft until the fifties were over and the comic books had changed their artistic style. (Oh yeah, and after they got a thermometer on the surface of Venus... ;-) What the heck, I read his books... I've even got an autographed hardback copy of _Inside the Space Ships_. (No I won't sell it. I may not believe it, but I do collect it.) Gee, I wonder if there is any way that the skeptic could identify the people who are merely trying to make large sums of money off the public? After all, there are many who have reported extra- ordinary events and haven't had magazines/books/jewelry/channeling/ newsletters/or public tours to raise lots of money... (And just because someone writes or sells a book or magazine you can't immediately assume they're fraudulent...) Let's do this instead. Let's come up with criteria (serious criteria that can be taken at face value and believed) that you would accept a claim of a (shudder) flying saucer under? What would it take to convince you that some of these reports are legitimate? Take a few minutes and list what you would need to turn your point of view around? Remember that even six months prior to the Wright brothers' flight, a noted scientific authority claimed it was impossible for man to fly. It's easy to be a skeptic. It's harder to admit the possibility there may be evidence to the contrary of your opinion. It's harder still to be a skeptic that is wrong. Personally, I take the middle ground. I don't deny they exist, but I'm not jumping at the chance to sell my house because I heard they're coming... I'm not dismissing them, I'm just waiting patiently for absolute proof. How 'bout you? Rick -- Rick Pavek v-------------------------------v kuryakin@bcstec.boeing.com v Si Ego Certiorem Faciam... v AppleLink: kuryakin v ...Mihi Tu Delendus Eris v GEnie: r.pavek1 v-------------------------------v Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!cleveland.Freenet.Edu!an683 From: an683@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Dean C. Gelston) Subject: Re: Just a test Message-ID: <1992Aug12.063649.29041@usenet.ins.cwru.edu> Sender: news@usenet.ins.cwru.edu Nntp-Posting-Host: cwns1.ins.cwru.edu Reply-To: an683@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Dean C. Gelston) Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA) References: <1992Aug12.102218.52832@qut.edu.au> Date: Wed, 12 Aug 92 06:36:49 GMT Lines: 7 In a previous article, fitzsimmons@qut.edu.au () says: >This is just a test message. > THIS IS JUST A RESPONSE...> Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!munnari.oz.au!yoyo.aarnet.edu.au!sirius.ucs.adelaide.edu.au!adelphi!hoconnel From: hoconnel@physics.adelaide.edu.au (Heath O'Connell) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Ross Perot Message-ID: Date: 12 Aug 92 06:49:03 GMT Sender: news@ucs.adelaide.edu.au Lines: 9 Nntp-Posting-Host: adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au Was Ross Perot meant to have had some dealings with aliens in the far north of America concerning oil, or did I mis-hear something? Regards, Heath. -- hoconnel@adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au Xref: icaen alt.alien.visitors:8308 talk.religion.newage:11156 sci.skeptic:28716 Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,talk.religion.newage,sci.skeptic Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!peora!tarpit!bilver!dona From: dona@bilver.uucp (Don Allen) Subject: Re: Hatton: CIA or ET Organization: W. J. Vermillion - Winter Park, FL Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 04:18:42 GMT Message-ID: <1992Aug12.041842.15428@bilver.uucp> References: <2398@israel.nysernet.org> <63514@cup.portal.com> <63762@cup.portal.com> Lines: 53 In article <63762@cup.portal.com> John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes: >Dear Hatoon Lovers and Haters: I agree with all the people on both >sides of the argument. When he comes through Richard Miller and the Solar >Cross people he sounds like a very nice person. When he talks through >Mr. Green he is one rough dude. If a person wants to get some information >about Hatoon and find out for themselves they can write, >The Phoenix Express, America West Publishers Inc., PO Box 986, Tehachapi, >Calif. 93581. For a catalog you can call 805-822-9655. It may sound like >I'm backing Hatoon from this source but he is not exactly my cup of tea >when he is talking through Mr. Green. >John Winston John, A considerable amount of attention is being paid to what is so obviously a discombobulated entity that just loves to plagiarize others work ("Hatonn" , the George Green variety) that he is even now getting his little cosmic ass burned royally on the UFO echoes. Everything that Don Showen said regarding "Hatonn" is absolutely correct from my point of view. Have you ever seen such "Cooperish" ranting from a "Christed being" ? I have a little file that I got from A.S.S.K. (Association of Sananda and Sanat Kumara) that really BURNS DORIS ECKKER (aka "Dharma) and nails them for PLAGIARISM. This org took America West to court and WON their suit(s). I'll post it here tomorrow. The "George Green" "Hatonn" IS an asshole. He does nothing but inspire FEAR in people. BE advised people: What you are being told that "Hatonn" is a "Pleiadian Space Commander" is NOT CORRECT. America West is running a SHAM OPERATION. They are nothing more than CON ARTISTS. True Christed beings don't sound like William Milton Cooper on speed! Use Discernment. Also, please read Don Ecker's article in the current UFO MAGAZINE on the EXPOSE' on "Hatonn's World" . Don really nails his ass! "Here's your brain.." "Here's your brain on "George Green's "Hatonn".. Any questions? :-) Don -- -* Don Allen *- // Only | Tavistock + Esalen = "New Age" Internet: dona@bilver.uucp \X/ Amiga | Rothschild + Rockefeller = FED UUCP: .uunet!peora!bilver!vicstoy!dona | UN + Maitreya = "Twilight Zone" "A democracy cannot be both ignorant and free" - Thomas Jefferson Xref: icaen alt.alien.visitors:8309 alt.paranormal:5602 sci.space:33165 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!munnari.oz.au!yoyo.aarnet.edu.au!sirius.ucs.adelaide.edu.au!adelphi!hoconnel From: hoconnel@physics.adelaide.edu.au (Heath O'Connell) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.paranormal,sci.space Subject: Re: Adelaine UFO incident, lab test ? Keywords: UFO Message-ID: Date: 12 Aug 92 06:53:46 GMT References: Sender: news@ucs.adelaide.edu.au Followup-To: alt.alien.visitors Lines: 19 Nntp-Posting-Host: adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au >>It seems a lot of UFO's are being reported down under lately. Have the >>Greys only just discovered Australia? (bit like you Americans....NO.. there >>are NO kangaroos jumpin' around my back garden, or in my street!!!! ;-) >>------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Jamie P. Curmi (curmi@cs.mu.oz.au, curmi@maths.mu.oz.au) Department of Computer Science, Department of Mathematics The Un >>iversity of Melbourne, Parkville, Victoria, Australia >>------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> *** Mutate NOW - avoid the rush! *** Don't listen to him, why just the other day there was a traffic jam on my way to work caused by kangaroos. Of course it's not like the old days before the bounty was placed on their heads, you're lucky if you see one in the city these days. -- hoconnel@adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!Jeffrey_-_Papineau From: Jeffrey_-_Papineau@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Dulce Info Request Message-ID: <63882@cup.portal.com> Date: Wed, 12 Aug 92 00:45:21 PDT Organization: The Portal System (TM) Distribution: world References: <1992Aug7.152458.14453@usenet.ins.cwru.edu> <63628@cup.portal.com> <1992Aug10.161548.20091@lmt.mn.org> <1992Aug11.005407.14464@odin.corp.sgi.com> Lines: 67 East/West told me they have all 3 volumes ordered, that they will be in this week! I was not aware until now that the III was available. The level of gathering is so high in these volumes that you could forgo library searches, periodicals, etc. so it really does save a person a great deal of time... I can't wait to get III, and take a look at the first one... Jeff- PS - they come striaght out of a little town in WA. Not Bill C.' s 'hood, mon. >>However, Matrix III is due in October. $55 from Arcturus Books in Stone Mt., >>Georgia. I'm gonna get mine! >>-- Alex -- You guys write: Both volumes are available at East/West Bookstore in Menlo Park,Calif.They don't writes:appear to be out of print here.It is a pretty hefty price($55-$60appea > dollars),especially in the format they are produced in.8.5'X11' paper,Thedo > all > toCommand: Command: ok sure,somebody has alot os time to gather paper from all over the U.S. & thesu ofCooper.......You make the call;->Cooper.......You make the call;-> Matrix I, >>you'll just get laughed at if you ask for one of those. They are extremely >>rare. >>However, Matrix III is due in October. $55 from Arcturus Books in Stone Mt., >>Georgia. I'm gonna get mine! >>-- Alex -- Both volumes are available at East/West Bookstore in Menlo Park,Calif.They don't appear to be out of print here.It is a pretty hefty price($55-$60 dollars),especially in the format they are produced in.8.5'X11' paper,The quality of some of the print is not so good in some parts either. I did flip through them while I was there. Some interesting stuff,but there seems to be alot of regurgitated MJ 12 stuff,etc. One thing is for sure,somebody has alot os time to gather paper from all over the U.S. & the world. The way it is written seems to be reminiscent of Bill Cooper.......You make the call;-> Rod -- Rod Beckwith |$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ Datacom I/S |"The great obstacle of progress is not ignorance, rodb@corp.sgi.com|but the illusion of knowledge." |$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!decwrl!access.usask.ca!ccu.umanitoba.ca!bison!sys6626!titan From: titan@sys6626.bison.mb.ca (Titanium Knight) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Angels and other things. Message-ID: Date: Wed, 12 Aug 92 01:10:17 CST References: <11AUG199211480555@apsicc.aps.edu> Organization: system 6626 BBS, Winnipeg MB Lines: 23 jim@apsicc.aps.edu (frost...) writes: > Hello all, > How about generating a litle discussion on a topic I haven't seen in > this group since I started following it. What do you netters think > about the so called 'Angel Hair' that has been found at various locations > around the world. People have taken samples of this only to find that > when they check their containers or whatever they put the stuff in that > it has disappeared. The explanations I have heard have run from spider > webs to chaff (which doesn't disappear) to material ejected or left > behind by UFO's. Nothing out of this world at all. I know the USAF (?) uses this stuff to apparently screw up radar, or something like that. It's just that the public dosen't know about it, and it's supposed to be secret. Atleast that's what I've been told (to keep it secret). But it was a long time ago and I can't remember all the details. Too late now! :-) Titan ;--- (Titanium Knight) a user of sys6626, running waffle 1.64 ;E-mail: titan@sys6626.bison.mb.ca ;system 6626: 63 point west drive, winnipeg manitoba canada R3T 5G8 Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sdd.hp.com!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!news.claremont.edu!nntp-server.caltech.edu!keith From: keith@cco.caltech.edu (Keith Allan Schneider) Subject: Re: Crop Circles? Message-ID: <1992Aug12.100452.26123@cco.caltech.edu> Sender: news@cco.caltech.edu Nntp-Posting-Host: jomby Organization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena References: <1992Aug8.065811.3941@cco.caltech.edu> <3246@bcstec.ca.boeing.com> <1992Aug10.070053.22751@cco.caltech.edu> <80000@bcsaic.boeing.com> Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 10:04:52 GMT Lines: 73 kuryakin@bcsaic.boeing.com (Rick Pavek) writes: >In article <1992Aug10.070053.22751@cco.caltech.edu> keith@cco.caltech.edu (Keith Allan Schneider) writes: >> >>So, you feel that although a method has been shown to create these circles, >>the only way that they could have been formed is by some type of advanced >>aircraft? >> >>If they could do it, why not others like them? >> >>What? When they confessed, they made a circle for the reporters, just like >>the others. >> >>What better time to do it than when no one will catch you. I can walk around >>in the dark and fog; can't you? >> >>Now tha teveryone knows how to do it, it is not surprising that there are >>others. >> >>I doubt that any aliens or government people would have created such circles. >>There is no reason for it. Why land in the middle of crops, making a stange >>formation that will get people suspicious when you could easily land in some >>other place that would leave no such "evidence." Come on, there is much more >>convicing evidence than these hozx formations. >While I'm willing to admit the possibility that all crop circles could >be caused by human terrestrials (and I think many of them were) are >you willing to admit the possibility that some of them may not have been >produced by the stated means? (I'm not saying that you believe that >some of them WERE created by other means, just that the possibility exists >that some of them MAY have been caused by means other than humans... :-) >Will you grant me that much? It's a sucker bet. If you say no that >means you have a closed mind to the subject. >If that's the case, keep my net address. If there ever is a big >revealing, or general 'contact', I want to know how you explain it... You can easily convince me that the crop circles were created by aliens. Just show me one example of an alien doing so. Is that so difficult? I cannot prove a negative. That is, I cannot say that the circles definitely are not created by aliens. I can however, say that it is extrememly unlikely, based on what we know about crop circles, and the lack of much information about aliens. that aliens would have created these circles. Now, obviously that aliens, if they exist, do not want us to know that they are here, right? Or else they would just land on the White House lawn like in that moive (you know the one). So why would an alien that is intelligent enough to create some means to travel about 4 light years at least land his craft in the middle of a corn field if he knew that it would leave behind traces? And besides, we never see and landing gear imprints, do we? All we see is a circle of crops that look like they have been smashed over by some guy with a 2X4. And now, let's assume that the government has some top secret craft that would create such a circle. As above, the government wouldn't be dumb enough to leave behind such obvious traces. Now, we have documented cases in which exact such circles have been created by hoaxsters. Why the need for some supernatural explanation? The "guys with plank" theory seems to work perfectly. Until we see more evidence that indicates that this theory is not sufficient to explain the phenomenon, I see no use to propose something fantastic. My mind is closed you say? No, I admit that there is a very very remote possibility that there are very dumb aliens out there. I suppose it could be like the nutty professor who concots the GUT but then locks his keys in his car. I sincerely doubt though that aliens would overlook this footprint. Show be an alien creating a crop circle, and I will believe that aliens create them. keith Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!sun-barr!cs.utexas.edu!uwm.edu!linac!pacific.mps.ohio-state.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!news.ysu.edu!psuvm!cunyvm!rowhc Organization: City University of New York/ University Computer Center Date: Wednesday, 12 Aug 1992 04:54:14 EDT From: Message-ID: <92225.045414ROWHC@CUNYVM.BITNET> Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Gary Stollman For President... Lines: 31 You know, a lot of people in this newsgroup go off on Gary because of the things he writes in his paranoid articles. Lay off the guy. I happen to find his material more interesting than most of the stuff that fills this area on the net. His postings are especially more interesting than the ridicule he receives for his efforts (although about six months ago there was some really hilarious feedback at Gary's expense). Aren't we supposed to be keeping an open mind about all this? Its obvious that Gary is a sensitive guy, and apparently he has been scared off the net by all those nasty nincompoops who bashed him emotionally and intellectually. One thing is for sure -- Gary believes the things he is posting. Also, people are definitely harassing him (those counterfeit "fuck the CIA" letters clearly were not written by Stollman - I knew that even before he denied it publicly). Gee, maybe the government or the greys took his modem away. Hey - maybe I'm the governement or the greys, and I tracked Gary down to eat his brain. Better watch out...you may be next! ------- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ROWHC@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU.BITNET~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ !!!!! ROB WALTERS/ EDITOR, SPHERIC (Global Monthly For Humans) !!!!!!!!!! !!!!! 695 PARK AVE., NEW YORK, NY 10021 $$$ (212) 772-4279 $$$ !!!!!!!!!! !!!!!! "HELP STAMP OUT AN END TO ISMISTIC ISMISM." -- HERBERT RONZONI !!! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!wupost!darwin.sura.net!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!rpi!bu.edu!dartvax!Rickie.A.Slater From: Rickie.A.Slater@dartmouth.edu (Rickie A. Slater) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Crop Circles? Message-ID: <1992Aug12.112650.25645@dartvax.dartmouth.edu> Date: 12 Aug 92 11:26:50 GMT References: <1992Aug7.181652.26139@acd4.acd.com> <1992Aug8.065811.3941@cco.caltech.edu> <3246@bcstec.ca.boeing.com> <1992Aug10.070053.22751@cco.caltech.edu> Sender: news@dartvax.dartmouth.edu (The News Manager) Organization: Dartmouth College, Hanover, NH Lines: 19 >kuryakin@bcstec.ca.boeing.com (Rick Pavek) writes: >I doubt that any aliens or government people would have created such >circles. There is no reason for it. Try realizing that there is more that you don't know than there is that you do know. Most reasons are beyond our comprehension. >Why land in the middle of crops, making a stange formation that will get >people suspicious when you could easily land in some other place that would >leave no such "evidence." If you had work to do in a place where no one could overpower or influence you would you really care what kind of impression you made, on the planet surface or on the inhabitants lives? >Come on, there is much more convicing evidence than these hozx formations. Evidence shmevidence, I want the air ship I saw flying along power lines one night with no lights on and without making a sound. Rick Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:11158 alt.alien.visitors:8315 sci.skeptic:28721 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!sun-barr!apple!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day Message-ID: <63887@cup.portal.com> Date: Wed, 12 Aug 92 06:13:53 PDT Organization: The Portal System (TM) References: <1992Jun5.011013.1412@beaver.cs.washington.edu> <63714@cup.portal.com> <63758@cup.portal.com> <80001@bcsaic.boeing.com> Lines: 8 Dear Astral Folk and Rock Watchers: Remember today is the fourth weekly Astral OOBE Party. Pack your astral bags and don't be late. It seems the space people are now furnishing us with a space craft and for that I am thankful. Oh yes while we've been talking about rockss before I reminded me that in the past I communicated with Richard Shaver of the The Shaver Mystery. He sent me one of his rock. You talk about rocks that was a rock. John Winston. Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!dtix!darwin.sura.net!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!The-Star.honeywell.com!umn.edu!kksys.com!edgar!brainiac!lmt!alexa@county.lmt.mn.org From: alexa@county.lmt.mn.org (Dave Alexander) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Dulce Info Request Message-ID: <1992Aug11.215003.28215@lmt.mn.org> Date: 11 Aug 92 21:50:03 GMT References: <1992Aug7.152458.14453@usenet.ins.cwru.edu> <63628@cup.portal.com> <1992Aug10.161548.20091@lmt.mn.org> <1992Aug11.005407.14464@odin.corp.sgi.com> Sender: usenet@lmt.mn.org Organization: LaserMaster Technologies, Minneapolis, MN Lines: 16 Nntp-Posting-Host: alexa.lmt.com RE: Matrix I and Matrix II In article <1992Aug11.005407.14464@odin.corp.sgi.com>, rodb@slugo.corp.sgi.com (Rod Beckwith) writes: > > I did flip through them while I was there. Some interesting stuff,but there > seems to be alot of regurgitated MJ 12 stuff,etc. One thing is for > sure,somebody has alot os time to gather paper from all over the U.S. & the > world. The way it is written seems to be reminiscent of Bill > Cooper.......You make the call;-> > Actually, they were both written by Valdemar Valerian (not his real name), who puts out the Leading Edge newsletter. The Matrix books seem to be a kind of compliation of all of his newsletter stuff. -- Alex -- Xref: icaen alt.alien.visitors:8317 alt.paranormal:5604 Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.paranormal Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!sun-barr!cs.utexas.edu!sdd.hp.com!apollo.hp.com!netnews From: nelson_p@apollo.hp.com (Peter Nelson) Subject: Re: physical evidence Sender: usenet@apollo.hp.com (Usenet News) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 14:46:55 GMT References: <1992Aug9.015509.12070@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> <1992Aug11.092619.1@cubldr.colorado.edu> <1992Aug11.195522.110@m.cs.uiuc.edu> Nntp-Posting-Host: c.ch.apollo.hp.com Organization: Hewlett-Packard Corporation, Chelmsford, MA Lines: 33 In article <1992Aug11.195522.110@m.cs.uiuc.edu> mcgrath@cs.uiuc.edu writes: >In article <1992Aug11.092619.1@cubldr.colorado.edu>, crago_l@cubldr.colorado.edu writes in part: >|> One ofthe main differences between ordinary rape and *abduction/rape* is >|> that when the victem reports what's happened to her, nobody says, Oh, >|> there are no such things as rapists! You must be a nut! >No, they say "You're making it up!" or "You led him on!" or "You >said yes at the time!" or lots of other things that imply that >she must be a nut. You imply that rape victims have a simple >and easy time, which just ain't the way it is. > >Anyway, any case built on one witnesses testimony is pretty much >untenable. You need to use the ordinary tools of investigation be >applied: look for corroborating evidence and witnesses. >(If I walk into the police station and tell them that I was >kidnapped by Columbian-Iraqui-narco-terrorists, who tortured and >raped me but left no traces, they'll tell me I'm nuts, even though >beings MIGHT exist, and MIGHT even have kidnapped me. No evidence, >no case, thats just the way it is.) Also remember that some "abduction victims" claim that it is a repeated or regular occurence or that it's still happening to them. It would not be that hard to rig up their house to record events in it. Turn on a videotape loop every night before going to bed. Maybe prepare the ground outside to mark footprints. Set up automatic video or camera equipment around the house to record people (beings, whatever) going in and out. Et cetera. Use a little imagination. ---peter Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:11160 alt.alien.visitors:8318 sci.skeptic:28726 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!centerline!noc.near.net!hri.com!merrimack.edu!caina From: caina@merrimack.edu Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day Message-ID: <1992Aug12.103857.2083@merrimack.edu> Date: 12 Aug 92 10:38:57 GMT References: <1992Jun5.011013.1412@beaver.cs.washington.edu><63714@cup.portal.com> <63758@cup.portal.com> Organization: Merrimack College, No. Andover, MA, USA Lines: 23 In article <63758@cup.portal.com>, John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes: > Howdy all ya friends and neighbors: Some people say I'm not going to > get any respect unless I get serious so I'll give you a serious question; > Have you hugged your rock today? Dr. /demonde, a biologist in Lyon, France > left a rock on top of his electrocardiograph and when he came back after > being on vacation he saw that the rock had inpressed pulses on the machine. > It was found that rocks breathe, but only one inhilation every three days > to two weeks. They have a pulse which is about a day and a half. They canCok > move but not too fast, about seven inches in a period of 14 weeks. So > there you have it spacefans, we should have a rock race. > John Winston. Someone needs to get out more often. Also I would like to point out the holes in your theory. Isn't it possible that someone else used the machine while he was away and just didn't take the data with him when he left the room. And how can the rock leave any impressions unless he was hooked up? Better yet I bet the rock was you during one of your astral journeys or commute or whatever you call it. John, that acid is really catching up to you. Alex Xref: icaen alt.alien.visitors:8319 alt.conspiracy:17647 alt.activism:30976 sci.skeptic:28729 misc.headlines:23468 alt.politics.bush:2176 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!mcsun!uknet!newcastle.ac.uk!news From: w.p.coyne@newcastle.ac.uk Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy,alt.activism,sci.skeptic,misc.headlines,alt.politics.bush Subject: Re: Guns and Skeptics Message-ID: Date: 4 Aug 92 09:19:02 GMT References: <1992Jul31.212244.20376@acd4.acd.com> <1992Aug1.041842.19761@galileo.cc.rochester.edu> <1992Aug1.073525.15555@hubcap.clemson.edu> <1992Aug1.162719.21334@mcshub.dcss.mcmaster.ca> Reply-To: w.p.coyne@newcastle.ac.uk Organization: Chemical & Process Engineering Dept, University of Newcastle, UK. Lines: 67 Nntp-Posting-Host: erui gerry@cmu.edu (Gerry Roston) writes: >What I finf truly amazing is that people that I consider to be quite >intelligent get so completely bent out of shape and ignore all of >their skeptical training when some one mentions the g word. Gun that >it, not god. >My earlier post was responded to by Leonard Norrgard, from Finland. I >will not quote from the past articles, but simply make the following >comments: >1-The crime in this country occurs disproportionately in the large, >poor cities, such as NYC, Washington and Detroit. This has nothing to This is probably the case in all poor cities. The different crime rates in different countries might be mainly due to cultural differences (eg the disparity between the rich and poor in that city, how easy it is for criminals to get away with their crime etc) >do with guns because these cities have the strictest gun control laws >in the country. In NYC, for instance, you simply can not buy hand >guns legally. The problem is one of economics, and the symptom is >crime, some times perpetrated with guns. Are you claiming the robbery rate would be just as high if people had to use knives. >2-The comment about a person getting a gun and becoming a criminal, >thereby being able to get the gun legally, is pure bullshit. This >simply does not happen (with any statistical significance). There are Yes but a criminal would be more likely to rob if they have a gun rather than a knife or a stick (IMHO). >3-Anyone who believe that the police and military are there to protect >and serve is not living in the same world I am. But, then again, The police are there to maintain some degree of order, protect property of the better off from damage, etc. So they are there to protect. I live on Earth what world do you live on? > Hint: Would Tienamen Square have happened if the >Chinese had the RKBA? Why not? Only a fool would believe possession of guns alone would prevent that GIVEN the fact that governments have tanks, missiles, flame throwers, napalm, etc. >Too many people have been brainwashed into believing that guns are bad >and that guns cause ccrime. This simply isn't true. As scientists, Give a criminal a knife and they might use it. Give a criminal a gun and they might use it. Give a criminal a nuclear bomb and they might use it. >we are obligated to seek the truth, not the propaganda spread by >certain groups. Personally, the fact that I own firearms for the >my protection does not make me happy. I would rather live in a >utopian society where everyone's needs and wants are met, thereby >eliminating the cause of crime. However, the world today is not >utopian and to survive, we must each look out for ourselves. And to >do this effectively, it means owning guns. Then why do most wealthy countries EXCEPT the USA get by without massive gun ownership AND lower crime rates than the US. Are you claiming that if the UK was to allow everyone to own guns that crime would not increase as a result of this, as criminals used guns to commit more robberies etc. Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:11163 alt.alien.visitors:8320 sci.skeptic:28731 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!usc!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!mips!news.cs.indiana.edu!lynx!carina.unm.edu!cary From: cary@carina.unm.edu (Ithlial the Archer) Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day Message-ID: <+v4mvdd@lynx.unm.edu> Date: 12 Aug 92 15:13:20 GMT References: <63714@cup.portal.com> <63758@cup.portal.com> <80001@bcsaic.boeing.com> Organization: University of New Mexico, Albuquerque Lines: 20 In article <80001@bcsaic.boeing.com> kuryakin@bcsaic.boeing.com (Rick Pavek) writes: >The REALLY amazing thing is that the rock was able to change the paper >on the EKG machine. All this while being stangled with the >electrodes... > >I'd like to see the original article. UNLESS it's in the National >Enquirer or similar... then I'd like to line my canaries cage with it. > >Rick, It's worse than the Nat'l Enquirer, it's in that most credible of scientific journals: The Weekly World News! cary@ursaminor.unm.edu My opinions, mine, mine, mine! To me, boxing is like ballet, except there's no music, no choreography, and the dancers hit eachother. Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:11164 alt.alien.visitors:8321 sci.skeptic:28733 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!hela.iti.org!usc!news.bbn.com!ingria From: ingria@bbn.com (Bob Ingria) Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day Date: 12 Aug 1992 15:43:05 GMT Lines: 20 Message-ID: References: <1992Jun5.011013.1412@beaver.cs.washington.edu> <63714@cup.portal.com> <63758@cup.portal.com> <80001@bcsaic.boeing.com> <63887@cup.portal.com> Reply-To: ingria@BBN.COM NNTP-Posting-Host: bbn.com In-reply-to: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com's message of 12 Aug 92 13:13:53 GMT In article <63887@cup.portal.com> John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes: Dear Astral Folk and Rock Watchers: Remember today is the fourth weekly Astral OOBE Party. Pack your astral bags and don't be late. It seems the space people are now furnishing us with a space craft What does that mean? If you're Out of Body, what do you need a spacecraft for? and for that I am thankful. Oh yes while we've been talking about rockss before I reminded me that in the past I communicated with Richard Shaver of the The Shaver Mystery. He sent me one of his rock. You talk about rocks that was a rock. What role did rocks play in the Shaver Mystery? I thought that was all about the D(r)eros (exact spelling forgotten). -30- Bob Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!leafusa!hal From: hal@HQ.Ileaf.COM (Hal Wadleigh) Subject: Centrifugal force (was Re: Ley Lines) Message-ID: <1992Aug12.150912.1836@HQ.Ileaf.COM> Reply-To: hal@HQ.Ileaf.COM (Hal Wadleigh) Organization: Interleaf, Inc. References: <63774@cup.portal.com> <22803@hacgate.SCG.HAC.COM> Date: Wed, 12 Aug 92 15:09:12 GMT Lines: 13 Sounds like the great debate between artillerymen and astronomers about the path of objects. The artilleryman says they follow parabolas. The astronomer says they follow ellipses. The difference is that the artilleryman treats the world as flat. Viewed from the perspective of a spherical planet, those paths are ellipses. The parabolic stuff is the result of changing the surface reference from a sphere to a plane (and it also simplifies the math). Centrifugal force is quite real to the person in the centrifuge. It's only the fellow standing on the outside who keeps saying that it's really only inertia, and not a force at all. It all depends on your frame of reference. What planet do YOU live on? Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!olivea!decwrl!concert!duke!ingram From: ingram@duke.cs.duke.edu (Robert E. Ingram) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Wanted: Linguist expert Summary: Microencephaly Keywords: Maghora eqhtap ahmkag, Saloi retfu! Message-ID: <713631602@redrum.cs.duke.edu> Date: 12 Aug 92 15:00:04 GMT References: <92224.195344JLS19@psuvm.psu.edu> Followup-To: alt.alien.visitors Distribution: na Organization: Duke University Computer Science Dept.; Durham, N.C. Lines: 34 In article <92224.195344JLS19@psuvm.psu.edu> JLS19@psuvm.psu.edu writes: >I recently witnessed a girl channel an extraterrestrial entity and she >started speaking in a very strange language. This went on for about 5 to 10 >minutes. She appeared to be in some kind of altered state. We would both >like to know what is being said! It sounds, very ancient (what do I know?) >Anyway, any ideas out there? I am going to record it and I am willing to >submit it to someone qualified for analysis. > >please private email as I may miss some of the postings. > >planet I'll use my _Dictionary_of_Glossolalia_ to translate it for you if you will post a transcript to the net. Did any of it sound like: Bogie, Bogie, Bogie; Bogie, Bogie, Bogie; Sluggo, Sluggo, Sluggo; Sluggo, Sluggo, Sluggo One day when i got home this ancient sounding incantation was left on my answering machine. And I didnt recognize the voice! Plus there was no name left! I have also read that certain sub-normal humans recite these strange words. Does anyone know what it means? -- -- Department of Computer Science, Duke University, Durham, NC 27706 Internet: ingram@cs.duke.edu (Robert Ingram) UUCP: mcnc!duke!ingram Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:11165 alt.alien.visitors:8324 sci.skeptic:28734 Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!destroyer!fmsrl7!lynx!carina.unm.edu!cary From: cary@carina.unm.edu (Ithlial the Archer) Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day Message-ID: Date: Wed, 12 Aug 92 15:26:19 GMT Organization: University of New Mexico, Albuquerque References: <63758@cup.portal.com> <80001@bcsaic.boeing.com> <63887@cup.portal.com> Lines: 21 In article <63887@cup.portal.com> John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes: >Dear Astral Folk and Rock Watchers: Remember today is the fourth weekly >Astral OOBE Party. Pack your astral bags and don't be late. It seems the >space people are now furnishing us with a space craft and for that I >am thankful. (stuff deleted!) >John Winston. Your astral traveling abilities are flabby! You need to Pump Them Up! , with properly pumped up Astral Travel Abilities you have no need for these crutches, like spacecraft (I spit on the very idea), that wimpy Astral Travellers use. Ithlial The only good Troll is a dead Troll Collary: Trolls regenerate - There are no dead Trolls Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cis.ohio-state.edu!rutgers!igor.rutgers.edu!dropout.rutgers.edu!mcgrew From: mcgrew@dropout.rutgers.edu (Charles Mcgrew) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Disinformation Agents at Work? Keywords: UFO disinformation Message-ID: Date: 12 Aug 92 15:48:57 GMT References: <1tymt#-.vere@netcom.com> <1992Aug7.210206.18458@mprgate.mpr.ca> Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J. Lines: 61 sheaffer@netcom.com (Robert Sheaffer) writes: You and the other believers have done *far* more than any skeptic could ever hope to accomplish in scaring real scientists away from studying UFOs! This is not quite true. Ridicule of UFO believers came originally from the media, with help from the government (whose motives included trying to avoid "noise" in the expected nuclear struggle with the USSR, but may have included other motives.) To a large extent, this ridicule from the 'uninterested' media is still occurring, Phil Klass and other published anti-UFO writers notwithstanding. You guys fall for the silliest hoax in the world in Gulf Breeze ... "we guys"? My reading of recent UFO literature shows that the only serious investigations of the Gulf Breeze photos came from inside the UFO community (MUFON and CUFOS, in an occasionally unseemly shouting match that masked serious investigation that has shown scientific reasons why the photographs are probably faked.) Laughing the photos off is a decidedly unscientific reaction. Open-minded investigation is (or should be) the hallmark of science, and indeed of UFO-scepticism. insist that the farfetched and mutually-contradictory stories about "crashed saucers" at Roswell are absolute truth ... farfetched does not mean impossible. Investigations, before they complete, are often show contradictory things (resolving contradictions is a large part of any investigation, I think you'll agree.) Your error is presuming that all that needs to be known about Roswell is known. I suggest you read some of the more recent books on Roswell. Contradictions exist in the 'official' story, too -- for instance a weather balloon discovered earlier in the month (in Ohio) was ignored by the government (Mr. Campbell, who discovered it, was allowed to keep it - pictures of his daughter holding the balloon appeared in newspapers around the country) versus the seven planes used to transfer whatever-it-was from Roswell (to Fort Worth, Wright Field, Washington DC, and Los Alamos) -- curious treatment for a balloon, surely. You may also want to read the Jesse Marcel interviews in 1978. ... the difficulty in UFOlogy is that not everyone "in the field" is working from the purest of motives. People make stuff up, for reasons of their own, and others repeat it (and so they become "urban legends"). For instance, the tabloid newspapers make stuff up to sell newspapers. This does not imply that everything in the field is made up. There is some evidence that parts of the government (AFOSI, specifically -- making willing use of Bill Moore) engage in disinformation against at least some UFOlogists (Paul Bennewitz, specifically), for reasons that are not known (See Howard Blum's "Out There" for details.) (That Bennewitz was doing things AFOSI didn't want him doing is clear, but what they were trying to keep secret isn't, and may have an 'earthly' explaination.) Charles Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!cis.ohio-state.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!malgudi.oar.net!caen!sdd.hp.com!mips!news.cs.indiana.edu!lynx!carina.unm.edu!cary From: cary@carina.unm.edu (Ithlial the Archer) Subject: Re: The Federation is still here Message-ID: Date: Wed, 12 Aug 92 15:36:20 GMT Organization: University of New Mexico, Albuquerque References: <1992Aug11.155325.1@acad2.alaska.edu> Lines: 29 In article <1992Aug11.155325.1@acad2.alaska.edu> asljl@acad2.alaska.edu writes: >Hello All > >Yes, The Federation is still here, at the moment for those still >interested, it is still here and still reachable. We still want to >hear from people interested in it or new people interested in the >Federation. > For those of you who are new to the Federation ideas, this is >what we are: We are a group of people who feel it is high time we got >off this rock and started exploring the great unknown of space. We have >drawn out in blue print form a drive system that is a >a super semi conducting crystaline structure. Okay I know what a superconductor is, and I know what a semiconductor is, they are pretty radically different from eachother. One has zero resistance to electrical current and the other has a very high resistance, although it is not an insulator. So would you bother to explain what you're talking about? Ithlial My opinions, mine, mine, mine! To me, boxing is like ballet, except there's no music, no choreography, and the dancers hit eachother. Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!dtix!darwin.sura.net!mips!news.cs.indiana.edu!lynx!carina.unm.edu!cary From: cary@carina.unm.edu (Ithlial the Archer) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Ley Lines Message-ID: <0v4mgv#@lynx.unm.edu> Date: 12 Aug 92 15:47:55 GMT References: <63703@cup.portal.com> <1992Aug11.195817.24063@awdprime.austin.ibm.com> <63861@cup.portal.com> Organization: University of New Mexico, Albuquerque Lines: 33 In article <63861@cup.portal.com> John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes: >Dear Deep Thinkers: Please let me throw in a few occult facts here >to stretch your brains. It has been said that the human life consists >of 2,700,000,000 heatbeats. People with slower heartbeats usually live >longer. I figured mine out and it came to 75 years. Turtles and elephants >live longer because their hearts beat slower. Planets heartbeat (they vary of >course) is about 27,000 years. The earth's heart beat is about 24 to 26 >thousand years so how long will it last. It's been around for 4.5 billion >years already. So what happens when a planet 'dies,' does is spontaneously disintegrate or what? What about stars? How about some references for these claims of planetary 'heartbeats'? >The next item is the fact that our scientists many years ago >proved by putting bronze stakes in the earth and measuring the depth of >earth around the stakes that cosmic dust and other things are settleing >on the earth at a rate of one foot every thousand years.-----JW This is hardly a startling revelation, any decent astronomy text/book will point this out. Ithlial My opinions, mine, mine, mine! I bet the main reason the police keep people away from a plane crash is they don't want anybody walking in and lying down in the crash stuff, then, when some comes up, act like they just woke up and go, "What, was THAT?!" Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sdd.hp.com!swrinde!mips!darwin.sura.net!jvnc.net!netnews.upenn.edu!grip.cis.upenn.edu!jmv From: jmv@grip.cis.upenn.edu (Jean-Marc Vezien) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Crop Circles? Message-ID: <85988@netnews.upenn.edu> Date: 12 Aug 92 15:57:20 GMT References: <1992Aug12.112650.25645@dartvax.dartmouth.edu> Sender: news@netnews.upenn.edu Organization: GRASP Lab Lines: 28 Nntp-Posting-Host: grip.cis.upenn.edu In article <1992Aug12.112650.25645@dartvax.dartmouth.edu>, Rickie.A.Slater@dartmouth.edu (Rickie A. Slater) writes: > >kuryakin@bcstec.ca.boeing.com (Rick Pavek) writes: > > >I doubt that any aliens or government people would have created such >circles. There is no reason for it. > > Try realizing that there is more that you don't know than there is that > you do know. Most reasons are beyond our comprehension. With that kind of remark, we won't go very far. So we should take the crop circles as complete mysteries (or equivalently as alien spaceships, as we cannot understand their true motives), and not wonder any further ? I wouln't say there's no reason for crop circles, but the same as kuryakin@bcstec.ca.boeing.com says: > >Why land in the middle of crops, making a stange formation that will get >people suspicious when you could easily land in some other place that would >leave no such "evidence." > > If you had work to do in a place where no one could overpower or > influence you would you really care what kind of impression you made, > on the planet surface or on the inhabitants lives? > YES, DEFINITLY YES. I think the "Prime Directive" argument of Star Trek could apply to aliens as well. Besides, if the aliens really didn't care, they would land randomly. Too bad they never land in center city. JM. Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!caen!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!ac!ahn From: ahn@ac.wfunet.wfu.edu (Darth Vader) Subject: Message from Death Star Organization: Columbia University Center for Telecommunications Research Summary: Testing Message-ID: Sender: news@ctr.columbia.edu (The Daily Lose) Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 17:19:59 GMT X-Posted-From: ac.wfunet.wfu.edu X-Posted-Through: sol.ctr.columbia.edu Lines: 4 yo man. this is a test please ignore. -dv Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!convex!news.utdallas.edu!corpgate!bnrgate!bwdls61!bwdlh130!zenith89 From: zenith89@bwdlh130.bnr.ca (Chris VanFleet) Subject: Re: Ride on John's Back, Please! (Was: Re: Get Off John's Ba Message-ID: <1992Aug12.165740.14097@bwdls61.bnr.ca> Sender: usenet@bwdls61.bnr.ca (Use Net) Nntp-Posting-Host: bwdlh130 Reply-To: zenith89@bwdlh130.bnr.ca () Organization: Bell-Northern Research, Ltd., Ottawa, CANADA References: <63615@cup.portal.com> <1992Aug8.023601.22136@mprgate.mpr.ca> <1992Aug10.191441.19491@random.ccs.northeastern.edu> <63795@cup.portal.com> Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 16:57:40 GMT Lines: 15 In article <63795@cup.portal.com> John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes: >---- Creatures Great and Small: They won't let me use the word dear >anymore. The information about the rocks comes from the current issue >of the tabloid paper Weekly World News August 18, l992 page 9. Since >Dr. Demonde and his colleague published their findings last spring, a furor >has arisen in the scientific community. The two researchers' work has >been ridiculed in some quarters. >John Winston. Hey John, did you know that this same paper also had articles entitled "I had sex with 6 space aliens -- again!" and "Illinois town terrorized by man eating turtle" at about the same time as the article about "living rocks"? ...my opinions are my own... CPV Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:11167 alt.alien.visitors:8331 sci.skeptic:28743 Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!csn!kbsw1!chris From: chris@kbsw1 (Chris Kostanick 806 1044) Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day Message-ID: <1992Aug12.155547.9865@kbsw1> Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 15:55:47 GMT Reply-To: chris@kbsw3.UUCP (Chris Kostanick 806 1044) References: <63758@cup.portal.com> <80001@bcsaic.boeing.com> <63887@cup.portal.com> Organization: Kentek Information Systems Lines: 8 John, I regularly hit rocks with hammers and break them. (The rocks, for those wondering about the anticedent) Does this make me evil? Rocks break in rivers and stream ALL THE TIME. What do the rocks think about water? Can rocks predict the stock market? Chris Kostanick hammer happy boulder basher at large Xref: icaen alt.alien.visitors:8332 talk.religion.newage:11168 sci.skeptic:28744 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!centerline!noc.near.net!chaos!random.ccs.northeastern.edu!rogue From: rogue@ccs.northeastern.edu (Free Radical) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,talk.religion.newage,sci.skeptic Subject: Re: Hatton: CIA or ET Message-ID: <1992Aug12.165144.19264@random.ccs.northeastern.edu> Date: 12 Aug 92 16:51:44 GMT References: <63514@cup.portal.com> <63762@cup.portal.com> <1992Aug12.041842.15428@bilver.uucp> Sender: news@random.ccs.northeastern.edu Organization: Comp. Sci. @ NU Lines: 12 In article <1992Aug12.041842.15428@bilver.uucp> dona@bilver.uucp (Don Allen) writes: [...] > >True Christed beings don't sound like William Milton Cooper >on speed! Use Discernment. What do True Christed Beings (tm) sound like? RA One of these days I gotta get me a .sig Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!sun-barr!cs.utexas.edu!usc!rpi!uwm.edu!zazen!doug.cae.wisc.edu!umn.edu!lynx!carina.unm.edu!cary From: cary@carina.unm.edu (Ithlial the Archer) Subject: Re: Centrifugal force (was Re: Ley Lines) Message-ID: <3y4m39p@lynx.unm.edu> Date: Wed, 12 Aug 92 17:34:21 GMT Organization: University of New Mexico, Albuquerque References: <63774@cup.portal.com> <22803@hacgate.SCG.HAC.COM> <1992Aug12.150912.1836@HQ.Ileaf.COM> Lines: 35 In article <1992Aug12.150912.1836@HQ.Ileaf.COM> hal@HQ.Ileaf.COM (Hal Wadleigh) writes: >Centrifugal force is quite real to the person in the centrifuge. >It's only the >fellow standing on the outside who keeps saying that it's really only inertia, >and not a force at all. It all depends on your frame of reference. > I hate to take the chance of getting into a discussion of noninertial reference frames (because I despise them) but: No it doesn't, the person in the centrifuge interprets his interia trying to make him go in a straight line as a force pushing down on him. The _ONLY_ force in operation here is the centripetal force pushing you in the direction of the center of the centrifuge. You might as well say that the reason we feel our weight increase when an elevator starts up is because of the Pleidians shining a graviton beam down the elevator shaft. BTW, Thad, centripetal forces don't cause tides either. ;-) >What planet do YOU live on? > That's my secret! But I'll tell you straight away that it isn't one of the semimolten ones that may be orbiting one of the members of the _very_ young Pleides star cluster. Ithlial My opinions, mine, mine, mine! I bet the main reason the police keep people away from a plane crash is they don't want anybody walking in and lying down in the crash stuff, then, when some comes up, act like they just woke up and go, "What, was THAT?!" Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!charon.amdahl.com!amdahl!JUTS!duts!dfs30 From: dfs30@duts.ccc.amdahl.com (Denise Solis) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Ride on John's Back, Please! (Was: Re: Get Off John's Ba Message-ID: Date: 12 Aug 92 18:30:11 GMT References: <63615@cup.portal.com> <1992Aug8.023601.22136@mprgate.mpr.ca> <1992Aug10.191441.19491@random.ccs.northeastern.edu> <63840@cup.portal.com> Sender: netnews@ccc.amdahl.com Reply-To: dfs30@DUTS.ccc.amdahl.com (Denise Solis) Organization: Amdahl Corporation, Sunnyvale CA Lines: 20 In article <63840@cup.portal.com> John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes: >Dear Potential Rock Star Owners: The way Dr. Demonde proved that the ====== >rocks were moving was to put a time lapse camers on them and it was >found that the rocks move very slowly (the fastest moved 7 inches >in 14 weeks time) a sort of expanding and contracting motion as it >hunched its way across the table. More to come later. >John Winston. John I don't want to join the bandwagon and jump on your case but does it ever occur to you to challange a statement? Not everything said and printed is true. The time-lapse video could actually be a hoax. Especially when your reading tabloids. -- ========================================================================= >>>>>>>>>>>|| Copyright (c) Denise faith Solis 1992 ||<<<<<<<<<<< >>>>>>>>>>>|| dfs30@DUTS.ccc.amdahl.com ||<<<<<<<<<<< ========================================================================= Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!boulder!tigger!schiffd From: schiffd@tigger.cs.Colorado.EDU (David M. Schiff) Subject: Re: Ride on John's Back, Please! (Was: Re: Get Off John's Ba Message-ID: <1992Aug12.181712.19532@colorado.edu> Sender: news@colorado.edu (The Daily Planet) Nntp-Posting-Host: tigger.cs.colorado.edu Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder References: <1992Aug10.191441.19491@random.ccs.northeastern.edu> <63840@cup.portal.com> Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 18:17:12 GMT Lines: 11 In article <63840@cup.portal.com> John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes: >Dear Potential Rock Star Owners: The way Dr. Demonde proved that the >rocks were moving was to put a time lapse camers on them and it was >found that the rocks move very slowly (the fastest moved 7 inches >in 14 weeks time) a sort of expanding and contracting motion as it >hunched its way across the table. More to come later. >John Winston. Are the rocks "Morphodites"? Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:11170 alt.alien.visitors:8336 sci.skeptic:28750 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!dtix!darwin.sura.net!jvnc.net!netnews.upenn.edu!netnews.cc.lehigh.edu!lehigh.edu!luden From: luden@lehigh.edu (Dean E. Nelson) Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day Message-ID: Date: 12 Aug 92 17:36:11 GMT References: <1992Jun5.011013.1412@beaver.cs.washington.edu> <63859@cup.portal.com> Sender: usenet@chili.cc.lehigh.edu Organization: Lehigh University Computing Center Lines: 26 Nntp-Posting-Host: 128.180.3.20 In article <63859@cup.portal.com> John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes: >Dear Rock Watchers: Dr. Demonde has found that rocks from around the globe >breathe, but just one inhalation can take anywhere from three days to >two weeks. They have also found that rocks also show signs of brain >activity. Some scientist say they are impressed with the data. In a speech >that the Doctor gave to a group of fellow biologists last month he said >that we recognize that our findings are startling, and we need as much >additional information as possible to back up our work. >So, that's it folks. I think I'll name my rock Lurch. >John Winston. A few years ago I remember seeing a documentary of a rural town in one of the southern states. The town was filled with interestingly eccentric people. The makers of the film merely asked a few simple questions of these people and let them ramble. It was very entertaining. One of the couples had a son stationed at the White Sands Missile testing range in New Mexico and he had convinced them that the sand multiplies and grows, that the Navy had to constantly plow roads open that the sand had overtaken. To prove it to them, he brought home a jar with a little sand in it. They pulled the jar out to show how much the sand had grown over the years. It must have never occurred to them that their son simply added a little bit every time he came home to visit. They were so innocently sincere in their belief. John, on the other hand, I think he tempts us. Dean den0@lehigh.edu Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!haven.umd.edu!darwin.sura.net!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!uwm.edu!daffy!uwvax!zomma.cs.wisc.edu!cherkaue From: cherkaue@zomma.cs.wisc.edu (Kevin J. Cherkauer) Subject: Re: Whitley Strieber Message-ID: <1992Aug12.190616.12765@cs.wisc.edu> Sender: news@cs.wisc.edu (The News) Organization: University of Wisconsin, Madison -- Computer Sciences Dept. References: <1992Aug9.052434.18684@u.washington.edu> Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 19:06:16 GMT Lines: 51 In article <1992Aug9.052434.18684@u.washington.edu> Bob Jacobson writes: >I heard that Whitley Strieber, author of the books "Communion" and >"Transformation", admitted that they were all made up. Can someone >confirm this? Well, I haven't heard that, but I can give you my *opinion* of his credibility level. (I've only read _Communion_.) After about the first couple of chapters, it rapidly spiralled downwards toward zero. Some interesting points: 1. Gee, he just happened, by coincidence, to be by trade an author of sensational pot-boiler horror novels (_The Wolfen_, and I think _The Hunger_, etc.) before being so fortunate as to have a *real* potboiler horror experience to write about and increase sales. 2. The hypnosis sessions with his wife showed that in truth, she didn't remember a darn thing about this "aliens in the bedroom" crap. She also said under hypnosis that Whitley is not a down-to-earth, level-headed guy. 3. He started making claims of being abducted multiple times in one day, as if their beaming down into his bedroom every night were not bad enough already. Those nasty aliens just wouldn't leave him alone for one minute. 4. He got into a lot of pscho-religious babble at the end of the book, sounding like he wants to start a cult to worship the wonderful aliens. 5. Whitley pursues publicity like a madman. This is the single most important defining feature of a typical "contactee" (see next paragraph). Note that one book wasn't enough, better make it two. And postings on this board have told of his frequent talk-show appearances, etc. Overall, Whitley sounds like a modern rehash of the 1950's "contactees" -- people who made wild (obviously false) claims of contact with aliens and tended to glamorize them ala Whitley. "The aliens are here to save us from ourselves, and I am their spokesperson" type stuff. So it's not even a new idea -- Strieber just had to wait 30 years for people to forget George Adamski et al and then tell the same old stories again. Voila -- millions of copies sold. If he isn't making it all up consciously, then his subconscious mind probably is. Either way, I don't buy it. For a much more credible abduction story, try reading _The Interrupted Journey_ by John G. Fuller (about Barny and Betty Hill). Their story at least has none of the five above-mentioned points connected with it. (They even tried to keep it from becoming public knowledge, succeeding for several years before a reporter got wind of it. Once that happened, they felt it was best to set the record straight by letting Fuller write his book, since the reporter's version was much removed from reality.) The aliens didn't even magically materialize in their bedroom or come back to harass them again and again like they do to poor Whitley. -- Kevin Cherkauer cherkaue@cs.wisc.edu Disclaimer: The above opinions are solely the responsibility of my owners. Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!paladin.american.edu!darwin.sura.net!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!usc!randvax!cis.rand.org!thompson From: thompson@cis.rand.org (Pamela Thompson) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Gulf Breeze Six In The News Again Summary: Millenial Fever Message-ID: <11556@cis.rand.org> Date: 12 Aug 92 15:57:59 GMT Expires: 30 Aug 92 07:00:00 GMT References: <1992Aug5.143625.23178@engage.pko.dec.com> <63496@cup.portal.com> <1992Aug7.032346.21143@random.ccs.northeastern.edu> <1992Aug10.154114.27565@meaddata.com> Sender: news@cis.rand.org Reply-To: thompson@cis.rand.org (Pamela Thompson) Distribution: na Organization: RAND, Santa Monica CA Lines: 9 If anyone would like a different perspective on the "End of Times" fever, I suggest they read IN PURSUIT OF THE MILLENIUM by M. (Marvin?) Cohn. This is a very scholarly work which traces the various millenial or end-of-times movements from the 1st century to the 20th. It IS scholarly and a bit of a slog, but I, for one, will never view millenialism in the same way after reading this work. No flames, please. I'm just trying to pass on some information. Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!usc!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!pacific.mps.ohio-state.edu!linac!att!news.cs.indiana.edu!umn.edu!lynx!carina.unm.edu!cary From: cary@carina.unm.edu (Ithlial the Archer) Subject: Re: Message from Death Star Message-ID: <014ms1c@lynx.unm.edu> Date: Wed, 12 Aug 92 18:57:11 GMT Organization: University of New Mexico, Albuquerque References: Lines: 22 In article ahn@ac.wfunet.wfu.edu (Darth Vader) writes: >yo man. >this is a test >please ignore. >-dv Hey man, don't tell me where to direct my attention and where not to! :-) So Darth, dude, have you turned back to the dark side? Have you come back from the afterlife to build Death Star III? Are yo going to destroy the planets of Zeta Reticuli (please do!), or is it Earth herself your after this time? I feel compelled to warn you that the Pleidians will stick up for us, man. BTW, hi. Ithlial To me, boxing is like ballet, except there's no music, no choreography, and the dancers hit eachother. Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:11171 alt.alien.visitors:8340 sci.skeptic:28756 Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!rosevax!aquarius!grante From: grante@aquarius.rosemount.com (Grant Edwards) Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day Message-ID: <1992Aug12.192748.7331@rosevax.rosemount.com> Sender: news@rosevax.rosemount.com (USENET News administrator) Nntp-Posting-Host: aquarius Reply-To: grante@aquarius.rosemount.com (Grant Edwards) Organization: Rosemount, Inc. References: <63859@cup.portal.com> Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 19:27:48 GMT Lines: 14 John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes: : Dear Rock Watchers: Dr. Demonde has found that rocks from around the globe : breathe, but just one inhalation can take anywhere from three days to : two weeks. They have also found that rocks also show signs of brain : activity. Some scientist say they are impressed with the data. Any scientists that say they are impressed with the data deserve to have their heads impressed with rocks. Sheesh. -- Grant Edwards |Yow! I'm in direct contact Rosemount Inc. |with many advanced fun |CONCEPTS. grante@aquarius.rosemount.com | Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!olivea!decwrl!pa.dec.com!oct17.dfe.dec.com!ryn.mro4.dec.com!est.enet.dec.com!randolph From: randolph@est.enet.dec.com (Tom Randolph) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Ley Lines Message-ID: <1992Aug12.165201.11575@ryn.mro4.dec.com> Date: 12 Aug 92 19:43:59 GMT References: <63467@cup.portal.com> <63861@cup.portal.com> Sender: news@ryn.mro4.dec.com (USENET News System) Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation Lines: 9 In article <63861@cup.portal.com>, John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes... >earth around the stakes that cosmic dust and other things are settleing >on the earth at a rate of one foot every thousand years.-----JW For a total depth of 800 miles of dust since the Earth formed! Where is all this dust? -Tom R. randolph@est.enet.dec.com Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!olivea!decwrl!pa.dec.com!oct17.dfe.dec.com!ryn.mro4.dec.com!est.enet.dec.com!randolph From: randolph@est.enet.dec.com (Tom Randolph) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Ley Lines Message-ID: <1992Aug12.165518.11656@ryn.mro4.dec.com> Date: 12 Aug 92 19:49:30 GMT References: <63467@cup.portal.com> <63863@cup.portal.com> Sender: news@ryn.mro4.dec.com (USENET News System) Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation Lines: 11 In article <63863@cup.portal.com>, John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes... >---My question is; How much has the Earth grown in those 4.5 to 4.7 >billion year? Could this be the reason why forests are thousands of feet >underground from which we get natural gas? Could this be the reason >we find one city built on the ruins of another city with a clear clean >layer of dirt between the cities? >John Winston I don't suppose "plate tectonics" means anything to you? -Tom R. randolph@est.enet.dec.com Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!olivea!decwrl!pa.dec.com!oct17.dfe.dec.com!ryn.mro4.dec.com!est.enet.dec.com!randolph From: randolph@est.enet.dec.com (Tom Randolph) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: tides Message-ID: <1992Aug12.171220.12094@ryn.mro4.dec.com> Date: 12 Aug 92 19:54:22 GMT Sender: news@ryn.mro4.dec.com (USENET News System) Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation Lines: 46 I promised references, and here they come. For a simple-minded treatment, "The Cambridge Encyclopaedia of Astronomy", Simon Mitton MA PhD, ed., 1977; pg. 178-179, the standard gravity gradient explanation is given. For some real meat, "Fundamentals of Celestial Mechanics", 2nd Edition, J.M.A.Danby, 1988; chapter 5 is "Some Properties of Solid Bodies". In section 5.7 he shows (mathematically) how a sphere of liquid behaves under tidal distortion. "...the free surface of [the liquid] must be an equipotential surface in the combined fields of [the liquid] and [the attracting body]." There is no mention of rotation or centrifugal forces, as there's no need for any. He goes on to derive the shape of the equipotential surface of the liquid, namely an ellipsoid, with a long axis in the direction of the attracting body. The liquid simply takes on the shape with the lowest potential energy, in which "there are two symmetrical bulges pointing toward and away from [the attracting body]." As far as treating tides as a two-body problem, it's basically not relevant. The classical "two-body problem" is simply the examination of the motions of two masses in orbit about their common center of mass. This has nothing to do with tides, which are an effect of gravitational fields. As for the world changing their tide predictions because I'm somehow shaking the foundations of the theory, don't worry about it. As Danby states, "In practice, forcasting of tides is largely empirical." Seems tide prediction is a matter of harmonic combinations of certain parameters of the Moon's and Earth's orbits, and is based on empirical "station constants" from observations of actual tides over several years. In other words, it has little to do with the kind of "theory from first principles" discussed above. See for instance Donald Olson, Dept. of Physics, Southwest Texas State University, "The Tide at Tarawa" in "Sky & Telescope", Nov.1987, in which he uses methods from "Manual of Harmonic Analysis and Prediction of Tides", Special Publication 98 of the U.S. Coast and Geodetic Survey. Now, the answers to the two questions: -What would happen to the tides if the Earth/Moon system could be made stationary? Nothing, since they have nothing to do with the motion of the system. -Why do solar tides occur on both sides of the Earth? For the same reason that lunar tides do: the gravitational gradient, or the oceans taking the shape with the lowest potential energy in the combined gravitational fields of the Earth and Sun. -Tom R. randolph@est.enet.dec.com Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!haven.umd.edu!darwin.sura.net!jvnc.net!yale.edu!ira.uka.de!rz.uni-karlsruhe.de!stepsun.uni-kl.de!sun.rhrk.uni-kl.de!efes.physik.uni-kl.de!kring From: kring@efes.physik.uni-kl.de (Thomas Kettenring) Subject: Re: physical evidence Message-ID: <1992Aug12.190614.7224@rhrk.uni-kl.de> Sender: news@rhrk.uni-kl.de Organization: FB Physik, Universitaet Kaiserslautern, Germany References: <1992Aug11.195522.110@m.cs.uiuc.edu> <1992Aug11.235412.8651@csc.ti.com> Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 19:06:14 GMT Lines: 43 In article <1992Aug11.235412.8651@csc.ti.com>, alanj@dadd.ti.com (Alan Jones,AMJ1,) writes: >In article 110@m.cs.uiuc.edu, mcgrath@cs.uiuc.edu (Robert McGrath) writes: >>(If I walk into the police station and tell them that I was >>kidnapped by Columbian-Iraqui-narco-terrorists, who tortured and >>raped me but left no traces, they'll tell me I'm nuts, even though >>beings MIGHT exist, and MIGHT even have kidnapped me. No evidence, >>no case, thats just the way it is.) > >This is quite true. But it seems that skeptics take the position that if >there's no case, then it didn't happen, which isn't necessarily the TRUTH. Exactly. It SEEMS that skeptics take the position that if there's no case, then it didn't happen, but they do not necessarily really take that position. (Yes, I know that's not what you intended to say.) >>Unfortunately, most abduction claims are made long after the fact >>in circumstances that are not conducive to solidly factual >>recollection--under hypnosis, in pseudo-therapy, after reading >>spectacular accounts of such events. This makes the claims difficult >>to establish as anything other than unpleasant fantasies. > >But of course you're aware that these circumstances are not true for all >such cases. This is a fairly typical stance taken by skeptics - to point >fingers at the cases where a known hoax took place, or where a hypnotist >led a person to fabricate a story. Why don't *we* focus our energies on >looking at the really significant cases? "Significant" as opposed to "known hoax". That means an unknown hoax is significant. Hmm... Ok, it is. Good thing you didn't say "genuine" instead (they normally do that in this group). >Don't we all have the same goal? >To know the TRUTH?? Unfortunately it seems clear to me that this is not >the case - the goal of some skeptics is obviously to bolster their own egos >by ridiculing and insulting those whose beliefs are not in alignment with >their beliefs. (Please note that this is a general observation of the >"skeptical community", and not directed at you, Robert.) One can have more than one goal. -- --------------thomas kettenring, 2 dan, kaiserslautern, germany--------------- Definition: Idiot-proof - you are idiot-proof when you NEVER flame anybody. Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!bcstec!kuryakin From: kuryakin@bcstec.ca.boeing.com (Rick Pavek) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Crop Circles? Message-ID: <3272@bcstec.ca.boeing.com> Date: 12 Aug 92 20:12:15 GMT References: <1992Aug7.181652.26139@acd4.acd.com> <1992Aug8.065811.3941@cco.caltech.edu> <24754@castle.ed.ac.uk> Organization: Boeing Lines: 27 In article <24754@castle.ed.ac.uk> fofp@castle.ed.ac.uk (M Holmes) writes: >keith@cco.caltech.edu (Keith Allan Schneider) writes: > >1) In any given paranormal scenario, the Believers will believe and the > Skeptics will be skeptical. > >However once it's been shown how that the paranormal scenario can be >accomplished by ordinary means: > >2) The Skeptics will believe and the Believers will be Skeptical. Well Struck, Keith! Rick -- Rick Pavek | Never ask a droid to outdo its program. kuryakin@bcstec.boeing.com | AppleLink: kuryakin | It wastes your time r.pavek1@GENIE | and annoys the droid. Xref: icaen alt.alien.visitors:8346 alt.conspiracy:17655 alt.activism:30995 sci.skeptic:28759 misc.headlines:23482 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!sun-barr!ames!tulane!mintir!incam!rj From: rj@incam.new-orleans.la.us (Ray Jones) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy,alt.activism,sci.skeptic,misc.headlines,alt.po Subject: Re: A racist argument against handgun control legislation. Message-ID: <5ggePB1w164w@incam.new-orleans.la.us> Date: Wed, 12 Aug 92 10:20:39 CDT References: <1992Aug10.223834.13856@oracle.us.oracle.com> Distribution: world Organization: Camelot BBS, New Orleans, LA Lines: 54 > In article <1992Aug10.132118.1693@etek.chalmers.se> lindq@etek.chalmers.se (J > >In article <1992Aug6.180124.5853@oracle.us.oracle.com>, mfriedma@uucp (Micha >>|>>If guns...not...wide spread, criminals would have a hard time getting >>|>>them, and violent crimes would, hopefully, be reduced. This argument has (IMO) little merit. It is illegal to own, possess or even carry drugs. Perhaps, criminals have had a harder time getting the drugs, but it certainly has not reduced (to any appreciable level) the amount of drug use or crimes related to drugs. > >Whith fewer guns, crimes would be less violent. At least that's what I > >think. Do you agree on that? If we could ensure that guns would (effectively) disappear, I might be more inclined to agree. I refer you to my earlier statement about the availability of drugs. Guns would still be easily available to criminals. In fact, even now, it is easier as well as cheaper to buy a handgun (probably stolen) on the black market than it is to buy one legally. At least, now, criminals must be worried their victims or someone else nearby might be carrying a gun. If the criminals knew no one but criminals or the police had guns, they would have "carte blanche". >>...I don't really understand why guns = freedom, ... The United States was founded by an armed rebellion against its previous government. The "Founding Fathers" wanted to insure that a people would always be able to rebel against an oppressive government & wrote the Constitution in such a manner to make certain the people would always have arms with which to revolt or to protect themselves against outside invaders should the need arise. > >BUT if carrying a gun became illegal, police would be able to arrest >>crinimals on...charge of carrying a gun before...got...chance to rob > >anyone. To begin with, it is against our constitution to stop and search anyone without probable cause. If the court feels the police had no good reason to stop someone, then anything found as a result of that search cannot be used as evidence against the person. Secondly, even if the person was arrested in a legal manner and if he was put in jail, he would (more than likely) be able to post his bail in a couple of hours, get back on the street, buy another gun and continue his illegal activities while the policeman who arrested him was still filling out the paperwork generated by his arrest. ****************************************************************************** "Camelot" BBS rj@incam.new-orleans.la.us PRIVATE SYSTEM Fidonet address ray.jones@p38.f17.n396.z1.fidonet.org VOICE # 504-436-1826 Xref: icaen alt.alien.visitors:8347 alt.conspiracy:17656 alt.activism:30996 sci.skeptic:28760 misc.headlines:23483 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!sun-barr!ames!tulane!mintir!incam!rj From: rj@incam.new-orleans.la.us (Ray Jones) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy,alt.activism,sci.skeptic,misc.headlines,alt.po Subject: Re: A racist argument against handgun control legislation. Message-ID: Date: Wed, 12 Aug 92 10:34:57 CDT References: <1992Aug10.224245.14103@oracle.us.oracle.com> Distribution: world Organization: Camelot BBS, New Orleans, LA Lines: 24 > In article <1992Aug10.130150.1431@etek.chalmers.se> lindq@etek.chalmers.se (J >>So what I meant was this: >>A person isn't a criminal until he commits a crime. If he doesn't get >>an opportunity, he...can't be a criminal. Opportunity is ONE of the >>neccessary things when turning criminal, not the only. It is true that a criminal looks for the easiest opportunity, but if one thing is not opportune, he will look for another. That is an agrument in favor of gun ownership, not against it. If a criminal is not concern- ed about being blown away by the victim, he is more likely to commit the crime. Consider, you are thinking about robbing the elderly couple down the road. You know they are old and infirm. You decide to commit the crime because you know they can't do anything to defend themselves. On the other hand, consider the same scenario except that the "old-infirm couple" may have a double-barreled shotgun, a .38 or some other gun waiting for you when you try. Which scenario would you be more likely to perpetrate the crime in? ****************************************************************************** "Camelot" BBS rj@incam.new-orleans.la.us PRIVATE SYSTEM Fidonet address ray.jones@p38.f17.n396.z1.fidonet.org VOICE # 504-436-1826 Xref: icaen alt.alien.visitors:8348 alt.conspiracy:17657 alt.activism:30997 sci.skeptic:28761 misc.headlines:23484 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!sun-barr!ames!tulane!mintir!incam!rj From: rj@incam.new-orleans.la.us (Ray Jones) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy,alt.activism,sci.skeptic,misc.headlines,alt.po Subject: Re: guns and criminals Message-ID: <5RiePB4w164w@incam.new-orleans.la.us> Date: Wed, 12 Aug 92 11:10:27 CDT References: Distribution: world Organization: Camelot BBS, New Orleans, LA Lines: 38 swells@triton.unm.edu (Earth-daughter) writes: > In article exukjb@exu.ericsson.se (ken > > the only use for ti kwon leep is self defense. you know who said that? > Ki Lo Ni, the Great Teacher. > > oh, yeah? well, > >The best defense is a good offense; > you know who said that? Mel, the cook on "Alice!" > > > shannon the mouthy pushy ranting broad channeling the Frantics. > > >Kenny Bell * Welcome to Mind Wars > >Ericsson Network Systems, Inc * Abstract Arts BBS 386-7907 > >P.O. Box 833875 * Severity with oneself is herois > >Richardson, TX 75083-3875 * --A.G.Sertillanges (France, 194 > >---------------------------------------------------------------------------- When you reply to this message, how about NOT CROSS-POSTING to the "alt.alien.visitors" newsgroup? I am sure many of you have different software, but I am sure most (if not all) software packages have the ability to change the groups a message is posted to. Try this: "follow newsgroup1, newsgroup2, etc.". That may not be the commands you will have to use, but I am sure there is a like command. Someone began cross-posting messages concerning gun control to the alt.alien.visitors group and others simply reply to same without changing any of the groups the messages are posted to. I am guilty of same. Let's all try to be a little more considerate of others. ****************************************************************************** "Camelot" BBS rj@incam.new-orleans.la.us PRIVATE SYSTEM Fidonet address ray.jones@p38.f17.n396.z1.fidonet.org VOICE # 504-436-1826 Xref: icaen alt.alien.visitors:8349 alt.conspiracy:17658 alt.activism:30998 sci.skeptic:28762 misc.headlines:23485 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!sun-barr!ames!tulane!mintir!incam!rj From: rj@incam.new-orleans.la.us (Ray Jones) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy,alt.activism,sci.skeptic,misc.headlines,alt.po Subject: Re: guns and criminals Message-ID: Date: Wed, 12 Aug 92 11:12:25 CDT References: Distribution: world Organization: Camelot BBS, New Orleans, LA Lines: 53 ccx018@cch.coventry.ac.uk (Leslie Griffiths (Griff)) writes: > In article exukjb@exu.ericsson.se (ken > >In article ccx018@cch.coventry.ac.uk (Leslie > >>From: ccx018@cch.coventry.ac.uk (Leslie Griffiths (Griff)) > >>Subject: Re: guns and criminals > >>Date: 5 Aug 92 07:23:18 GMT > > > >>In article <1992Aug4.224146.15920@adobe.com> pngai@adobe.com (Phil Ngai) wr > >>>In article <1992Aug4.015333.21023@s1.gov> lip@s1.gov (Loren I. Petrich) wr When replying to this message, please change the newsgroups it is cross-posted to so that it is not posted to the alt.alien.visitors newsgroup. Thanks > >>>> And one should learn ways of self-defense using one's own > >>>>body, so one can deal with assailants not equipped with guns. > >>> > >>>How macho of you. My wife rejects your suggestion. So does my mother. > >>> > > > >>I've always thought that the best form of self-defense is to run away. Not > >>always practicable of course, but being fit-enough to leg it has its > >>advantages. > > > >>Cheers > > > >The best defense is a good offense. (Hey, it's early, don't expect much.) > > I would agree, Its just that I wouldn't want to go around parts of New York > with anything less offensive than a tank. And what happens when the > criminals start carring tank-busting weaponry? > > >Kenny Bell * Welcome to Mind Wars > > I still say 'run away, run away'. But to appease the gun lobby, I perhaps one > should paint a target on ones back - to give the criminal something to go for > > Cheers > > -- > Griff \\ ccx018@uk.ac.cov > ^^^^^ :-= ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > // ****************************************************************************** "Camelot" BBS rj@incam.new-orleans.la.us PRIVATE SYSTEM Fidonet address ray.jones@p38.f17.n396.z1.fidonet.org VOICE # 504-436-1826 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!sun-barr!cs.utexas.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!darwin.sura.net!tulane!mintir!incam!rj From: rj@incam.new-orleans.la.us (Ray Jones) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: UFO "October Surprise" and USA TAKEOVER?! Message-ID: Date: Wed, 12 Aug 92 11:02:48 CDT References: <1992Aug10.224240.10666@ryn.mro4.dec.com> Distribution: world Organization: Camelot BBS, New Orleans, LA Lines: 63 randolph@est.enet.dec.com (Tom Randolph) writes: > - more gun stuff deleted - > > People, will you -please- take this to an appropriate newsgroup? You've been > asked nicely, rudely, and indifferently several times. My > courteous.little.netperson repertoire is about exhausted. > -Tom R. randolph@est.enet.dec.com I would like to apologize for my own duplicity in continuing this on-going thread about gun ownership. Whenever I read this newsgroup, all I ever see are messages about guns and gun ownership. I forget this is the "alt.alien.visitors" newsgroup and reply to some of the messages I read. I am new to Usenet and only recently began monitoring this newsgroup. In fact, I was fed this newsgroup by mistake, but I think I would enjoy it. Unfortunately, I haven't read a single message about alien visitors (alien to our country or alien to our planet) since I began monitoring the newsgroup. I don't have anything to post about alien visitors myself, but will make an attempt. Perhaps, others will pick up the thread. Even if we still get cross-posts from other newsgroups, we can skip them. Okay, let's see. Once upon a time... Seriously (assuming you are serious about alien visitors), has anyone had any personal experiences with alien visitors? Would you be willing to share same? Why don't you post them. I have had a few (at the time) eerie and chilling experiences but I believe they were all later explained. Once, I was on the heliport atop an off-shore oil rig, late at night. I saw a very bright light which, at first, was moving at a nice rate of speed. Then it simply stood still. It didn't move a bit for a long time (or at least it didn't seem to). After quite a while (at least five minutes), it changed course and began moving again. Then it began to descend and disappeared as it neared the earth. I said "an off-shore oil rig". I would have been more correct in saying an "inland drilling barge". I wasn't actually off-shore, but was in Lake Borgne near New Orleans. After processing all the data, so to speak, I realized what it was. It was a small airplane which had been moving at an angle to me. It had changed course and came directly at me. It was in a landing pattern for Lakefront Airport. It had slowed its approach in preparation for landing. The change in speed in addition to its change in direction coupled with the night time sky, the lack of other objects for comparison and an active imagination really had me believing I was observing some sort of UFO. Of course, by definition, I was. However, it later became an IFO (Identified Flying Object). Okay. I changed the thread. Now it's up to someone else. If we can't stop them from cross-posting, we can, at least, "take care of business", so to speak. Later Ray ****************************************************************************** "Camelot" BBS rj@incam.new-orleans.la.us PRIVATE SYSTEM Fidonet address ray.jones@p38.f17.n396.z1.fidonet.org VOICE # 504-436-1826 Xref: icaen alt.alien.visitors:8351 sci.skeptic:28766 alt.paranormal:5613 Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic,alt.paranormal Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!qt.cs.utexas.edu!yale.edu!yale!gumby!destroyer!ubc-cs!unixg.ubc.ca!kakwa.ucs.ualberta.ca!muskwa.ucs.ualberta.ca!dhalliwe From: userDHAL@mts.ucs.UAlberta.CA (David Halliwell) Subject: Re: physical evidence Message-ID: Sender: news@kakwa.ucs.ualberta.ca Nntp-Posting-Host: muskwa.ucs.ualberta.ca Organization: University Of Alberta, Edmonton Canada References: <1992Aug9.015509.12070@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> <1992Aug11.223749.17777@ims.com> Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 21:33:27 GMT Lines: 24 chapman@ims.com (Dave Chapman) writes: >In article , cass8806@elan.glassboro.edu (KYLE CASSIDY) writes: >|> In article <1992Aug9.015509.12070@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> gburton@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Garland O Burton) writes: >|> >there are folks whom i tell of the abduction/eti/ufo phenom... >|> >they say "show us the physical evidence." >|> >can anyone suggest any? >|> capture an alien. >Any one capable of building an interstellar craft will be able to build other >smaller artifacts that are clearly beyond our ability to make. For instance a >lap top computer given to an abductee in 1955 would have been very credible >physical evidence. Now of course you will have to come up with something fancier >than a lap top computer. >-- There we have it! The proof! We now actually *have* laptop computers, so aliens *must* have left them behind in 1955! Dave Halliwell Department of Geography University of Alberta Edmonton, Alberta Xref: icaen alt.sex:73645 talk.politics.guns:37873 alt.alien.visitors:8352 alt.postmodern:3790 alt.good.news:1374 alt.party:707 alt.flame:43199 misc.test:18494 alt.fan.warlord:6194 rec.pets.dogs:19060 alt.slack:3796 Newsgroups: alt.sex,talk.politics.guns,alt.alien.visitors,alt.postmodern,alt.good.news,alt.party,alt.flame,misc.test,alt.fan.warlord,rec.pets.dogs,alt.slack Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!stanford.edu!apple!csl!roche.csl.sri.com!boucher From: boucher@roche.csl.sri.com (Peter K. Boucher) Subject: David Simmons == net.cop Message-ID: <1992Aug12.211346.22003@csl.sri.com> X-Disclaimer: The views expressed in this message are those of an individual at SRI International, and do not necessarily reflect those of the company. Sender: news@csl.sri.com (NEWS Administrator) Nntp-Posting-Host: roche.csl.sri.com Reply-To: boucher@roche.csl.sri.com (Peter K. Boucher) Organization: SRI International, Computer Science Lab, Menlo Park, CA References: <1992Aug10.225725.11829@csl.sri.com> <1992Aug10.053133.12444@ringer.cs.utsa.edu> <1992Aug8.052946.14301@mintaka.lcs.mit.edu> Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 21:13:46 GMT Lines: 32 I was flamed through email by a cantankerous idiot named David Simmons as a result of my posting to the "The last word!" thread. Due to the insulting and argumentative style of his message, I assumed he was an alt.flame reader, so I flamed him back. Well, Mr. Simmons is not a very accomplished flamer, and he soon resorted to name-calling and threatening to "take actions" against me. It turns out that "take actions" translated into calling SRI, asking for the head of security's email address, and sending him the juiciest parts of my flames, out of context, and without Mr. Simmons' own puerile attempts at vulgarity. Anyway, it turns out that he wasn't just acting like a bonehead, he really is one! He was dead serious about putting me in my place for cross-posting inappropriately. I had assumed that he just wanted to argue. If this net.lowlife flames you for cross-posting, I recommend you ignore him, because he's not intelligent enough to argue in any interesting way. How such a fool became a Workshop Coordinator at LANL is beyond me. Flames will be ignored: 1) I can't tell beforehand if you're a good-spirited flamer or a mean- spirited net.cop.wannabe such as Mr. Simmons. 2) I already know this is inappropriately cross-posted, and I won't do it again. Peter K. Boucher DISCLAIMER: You've been told above and right here that *this has nothing to do with SRI*, so if you try to drag them into it, you will only look foolish. Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!dtix!darwin.sura.net!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!pacific.mps.ohio-state.edu!linac!att!news.cs.indiana.edu!nstn.ns.ca!ac.dal.ca!skibbens From: skibbens@ac.dal.ca Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Sighting in New Brunswick, Canada Message-ID: <1992Aug12.184845.6939@ac.dal.ca> Date: 12 Aug 92 21:48:44 GMT Organization: Dalhousie University, Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada Lines: 15 Did anyone else hear about a sighting in rural New Brunswick, Canada, around the end of July? I heard about it from two friends when I was up visiting during the first week of August. They say that a large number of people around Woodstock, NB, reporting sighting one large blob of light, followed by two smaller blobs. A friend at CBC Newsworld says that they showed a home-video of this sighting on national TV. Although neither of these two saw it themself, they said that someone I do know saw the lights. I'm planning to check with him when I get back up there around the end of the month. If anyone has more info about this, or knows of anyone else up there to talk to, please let me know. Ronzo Garbanzo Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!bcstec!kuryakin From: kuryakin@bcstec.ca.boeing.com (Rick Pavek) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Crop Circles? Message-ID: <3275@bcstec.ca.boeing.com> Date: 12 Aug 92 22:13:38 GMT References: <3246@bcstec.ca.boeing.com> <1992Aug10.070053.22751@cco.caltech.edu> <1992Aug12.112650.25645@dartvax.dartmouth.edu> Organization: Boeing Lines: 68 In article <1992Aug12.112650.25645@dartvax.dartmouth.edu> Rickie.A.Slater@dartmouth.edu (Rickie A. Slater) writes: >>kuryakin@bcstec.ca.boeing.com (Rick Pavek) writes: > >>I doubt that any aliens or government people would have created such >circles. There is no reason for it. > >Try realizing that there is more that you don't know than there is that >you do know. Most reasons are beyond our comprehension. > >>Why land in the middle of crops, making a stange formation that will get >people suspicious when you could easily land in some other place that would >leave no such "evidence." > >If you had work to do in a place where no one could overpower or >influence you would you really care what kind of impression you made, >on the planet surface or on the inhabitants lives? > >>Come on, there is much more convicing evidence than these hozx formations. > >Evidence shmevidence, I want the air ship I saw flying along power >lines one night with no lights on and without making a sound. > >Rick Er... I'm not the one that said the above... the guy was responding to my contentions... I'm the one who stirred up the hornet's nest, remember? Rick Pavek Sorry, the #^(#^%( trn keeps telling me I have fewer lines of text than the article I'm including... -- Rick Pavek | Never ask a droid to outdo its program. kuryakin@bcstec.boeing.com | AppleLink: kuryakin | It wastes your time r.pavek1@GENIE | and annoys the droid. Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!bcstec!kuryakin From: kuryakin@bcstec.ca.boeing.com (Rick Pavek) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Crop Circles? Message-ID: <3276@bcstec.ca.boeing.com> Date: 12 Aug 92 22:28:59 GMT References: <1992Aug10.070053.22751@cco.caltech.edu> <80000@bcsaic.boeing.com> <1992Aug12.100452.26123@cco.caltech.edu> Organization: Boeing Lines: 70 In article <1992Aug12.100452.26123@cco.caltech.edu> keith@cco.caltech.edu (Keith Allan Schneider) writes: > >You can easily convince me that the crop circles were created by aliens. Just Can you prove that the ALL of the circles WERE created by humankind? > >Now, obviously that aliens, if they exist, do not want us to know that they >are here, right? If they do exist, I'm not willing to make any presumptions about them at all. >Or else they would just land on the White House lawn like in that moive (you know the one). Sure. _The Day the Earth Stood Still_. I recall the alien got killed by those mad, irrational humans. >So why would an alien that is intelligent >enough to create some means to travel about 4 light years at least land his >craft in the middle of a corn field if he knew that it would leave behind >traces? And besides, we never see and landing gear imprints, do we? All we >see is a circle of crops that look like they have been smashed over by some >guy with a 2X4. Actually, the contention is not that they landed and imprinted the circles... rather they used some means to 'draw' the circles. Much like graffiti. And we see some (heresay perhaps, but we listen to the take all kinds of circumstantial evidence and take it as believeable.) circles that don't appear to match the descriptions of a 2x4 induced phenomena. > >And now, let's assume that the government has some top secret craft that >would create such a circle. As above, the government wouldn't be dumb There have been books that speculated that the government created the UFO phenomena to cover up other activities... > >Now, we have documented cases in which exact such circles have been created >by hoaxsters. Why the need for some supernatural explanation? The "guys >with plank" theory seems to work perfectly. Until we see more evidence that >indicates that this theory is not sufficient to explain the phenomenon, I >see no use to propose something fantastic. I am more skeptical than that... I'm not going to write it off to one quick and dirty explanation. The hoaxters were disreputable people thought to have government subsidies. Why should I believe vandals? Better yet, if all of them were made by humans, then WHERE ARE THE OTHER HUMANS??? All humans brag. Show me the others. Surely there are some... > >My mind is closed you say? No, I admit that there is a very very remote >possibility that there are very dumb aliens out there. I suppose it could >be like the nutty professor who concots the GUT but then locks his keys in his >car. I sincerely doubt though that aliens would overlook this footprint. >Show be an alien creating a crop circle, and I will believe that aliens >create them. OK, let's say you've placed your bet. You can even sleep soundly with it. I still see information coming in, and I'll place my bet later. Like I said in an earlier post... keep my email address. If there ever is an open invasion, I want to hear your explanation for it... or eat crow. I'll invite you to the ceremony if you can ever prove your contentions, and let you see me do the same. (I prefer ketchup. Actually, crow is pretty good... ;-) Rick -- Rick Pavek | Never ask a droid to outdo its program. kuryakin@bcstec.boeing.com | AppleLink: kuryakin | It wastes your time r.pavek1@GENIE | and annoys the droid. Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!bcstec!kuryakin From: kuryakin@bcstec.ca.boeing.com (Rick Pavek) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Crop Circles? Message-ID: <3277@bcstec.ca.boeing.com> Date: 12 Aug 92 22:31:29 GMT References: <14104@mindlink.bc.ca> <1992Aug9.022331.9288@cco.caltech.edu> Organization: Boeing Lines: 14 In article <1992Aug9.022331.9288@cco.caltech.edu> keith@cco.caltech.edu (Keith Allan Schneider) writes: > >Who said anything about flying around the world? > Let us rephrase... How do you explain the crop circles in the US, Canada, Mexico, and Australia? And others, as far as I know... Other humans? Prove they were all made by humans. Don't just assume. -- Rick Pavek | Never ask a droid to outdo its program. kuryakin@bcstec.boeing.com | AppleLink: kuryakin | It wastes your time r.pavek1@GENIE | and annoys the droid. Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!bcstec!kuryakin From: kuryakin@bcstec.ca.boeing.com (Rick Pavek) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Crop Circles? Message-ID: <3278@bcstec.ca.boeing.com> Date: 12 Aug 92 22:34:26 GMT References: <1992Aug11.152555.10275@usenet.ins.cwru.edu> Organization: Boeing Lines: 18 In article <1992Aug11.152555.10275@usenet.ins.cwru.edu> stepiend@rcwcl1.dnet.bp.com writes: > >Crop circles have been found in fields of rape flowers in England. Citations, please. Or the address for the newsletters... (yes, again if it's been posted). And ftp site for info on circles would be peachy. And an address for the admin of a mail.list. Thanks, Rick -- Rick Pavek | Never ask a droid to outdo its program. kuryakin@bcstec.boeing.com | AppleLink: kuryakin | It wastes your time r.pavek1@GENIE | and annoys the droid. Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!think.com!sdd.hp.com!caen!destroyer!fmsrl7!lynx!apsicc.aps.edu!jim From: jim@apsicc.aps.edu (frost...) Subject: Re: Ride on John's Back, Please! (Was: Re: Get Off John's Ba Message-ID: <12AUG199217193612@apsicc.aps.edu> Date: Thu, 13 Aug 92 00:19:00 GMT Organization: Albuquerque Public Schools - Career Enrichment Center References: <63615@cup.portal.com> <1992Aug8.023601.22136@mprgate.mpr.ca> <63795@cup.portal.com> <1992Aug11.124233.1583@nntpd2.cxo.dec.com> News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41 Lines: 50 In article <1992Aug11.124233.1583@nntpd2.cxo.dec.com>, timpson@acetek.enet.dec.com () writes... > > > > >>---- Creatures Great and Small: They won't let me use the word dear >>anymore. The information about the rocks comes from the current issue >>of the tabloid paper Weekly World News August 18, l992 page 9. Since >>Dr. Demonde and his colleague published their findings last spring, a furor >>has arisen in the scientific community. The two researchers' work has >>been ridiculed in some quarters. >>John Winston. > > >John you are being ridiculed in this quarter and that quarter and every quarter. > >You have confirmed to the world that you are not operating on all cylinders. > >Anyone who reads let alone believes anything from "Weekly World News" is a very >gullable person and deserves to loose the money they have wasted on the purchase >as well as the redicule they receive from the world. > >You and Gary Stollman need to get together and have a nervous break down. > > >Steve Food_for_the_Grays > > You know, I hate to have to admit it but there is a grain of truth to the tale about the moving rocks but it has a quite logical explanation. Seven to ten years ago some people noticed that rocks and larger stones ( this is probably where this recent moving rocks story originated and then was corrupted ) were actually moving and leaving trails behind them on sand in deserts around the world. After much in- vestigation by scientists it was found that, yes indeed the rocks were out for a stroll, but not by any paranormal or extraterrestrial means. It seems that in the deserts where the temperature differences are quite extreme between day and night that as the sun heated the rocks unevenly the heat caused an uneven expansion and contraction in the material. This expansion and contraction would slowly cause the rocks to 'creep' upon the sand and over a period of time also leave trails behind them if the wind didn't eradicate the marks first. It is a common occurance in the desert of Death Valley especially and many other parts of the world. Some things are logical, some not. But this explanation would most likely hold for most other cases of apparently self motivated rocks out for a days jaunt. Jim ====================================================================== We are rapidly ascending through prosperity to poverty... Twain Internet: jim@apsicc.aps.edu Albuquerque Public Schools - Instructional System Manager ====================================================================== Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!paladin.american.edu!darwin.sura.net!mips!carbon!news.cs.indiana.edu!bsu-cs!news.nd.edu!mentor.cc.purdue.edu!noose.ecn.purdue.edu!dynamo.ecn.purdue.edu!wb9omc From: wb9omc@dynamo.ecn.purdue.edu (Duane P Mantick) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: K-2 Radio Transmission Message-ID: Date: 12 Aug 92 22:38:32 GMT References: <1992Aug11.211855.323@ttinews.tti.com> Sender: news@noose.ecn.purdue.edu (USENET news) Organization: Purdue University Engineering Computer Network Lines: 12 usenet@ttinews.tti.com (Usenet Admin) writes: Anyone who has a shortwave radio and a tape recorder can record noises that sound like the description presented here. By and large, pretty much anything you hear is either some naturally occurring phenomenon or is cuased by FAX transmissions, high speed computer controlled morse code, digital transmissions, encrypted audio, etc. Pray tell, just what makes them so sure tha anything they have heard is alien, i.e., what proof of this do they offer? Duane Xref: icaen alt.sex:73654 talk.politics.guns:37881 alt.alien.visitors:8360 alt.postmodern:3792 alt.good.news:1375 alt.party:708 alt.flame:43202 alt.fan.warlord:6199 rec.pets.dogs:19065 alt.slack:3797 Newsgroups: alt.sex,talk.politics.guns,alt.alien.visitors,alt.postmodern,alt.good.news,alt.party,alt.flame,alt.fan.warlord,rec.pets.dogs,alt.slack,alt.never-laid Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sdd.hp.com!ux1.cso.uiuc.edu!hucke From: hucke@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu (Matt Hucke) Subject: Re: David Simmons == net.cop Message-ID: Summary: Jerk of the month award. Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign References: <1992Aug10.053133.12444@ringer.cs.utsa.edu> <1992Aug8.052946.14301@mintaka.lcs.mit.edu> <1992Aug12.211346.22003@csl.sri.com> Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 23:46:52 GMT Lines: 14 In article <1992Aug12.211346.22003@csl.sri.com> boucher@roche.csl.sri.com (Peter K. Boucher) writes: > >It turns out that "take actions" translated into calling SRI, asking for >the head of security's email address, and sending him the juiciest parts >of my flames, out of context, and without Mr. Simmons' own puerile attempts >at vulgarity. What a complete ass.... Simmons, I suggest you go back under whatever rock you crawled out from. Your net.cop activities are appreciated by no one. Get a life. -- And thither came Conan, a thief, a reaver, a slayer, to tread the jeweled thrones of the Earth beneath his sandaled feet. --THE NEMEDIAN CHRONICLES hucke@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu _V_a_l_h_a_l_l_a BBS, 217-352-3682, WWIV4.21, 14.4k Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!pipex!demon!cix.compulink.co.uk!asm332 Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors From: asm332@cix.compulink.co.uk (Sean Eaton) Subject: Those Breakdancing Rocks. Cc: asm332@cix.compulink.co.uk Reply-To: asm332@cix.compulink.co.uk Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 23:12:55 +0000 Message-ID: Sender: usenet@gate.demon.co.uk Lines: 24 In article <63840@cup.portal.com>, John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes: >Dear Potential Rock Star Owners: The way Dr. Demonde proved that the ****** >rocks were moving was to put a time lapse camers on them and it was >found that the rocks move very slowly (the fastest moved 7 inches >in 14 weeks time) a sort of expanding and contracting motion as it >hunched its way across the table. More to come later. So Dr Demonde claims to have used time lapse photography to record these motions ? How do you know the effect was not produced by stop-motion photography; have you seen the film ? You seem very gullible if you are ready to believe rocks can move by themselves on the basis of a roll of film. That's not proof. -Sean. p.s. I took the liberty of changing the Subject: line; I can't see what rocks have to do with riding on John's back, and anyway, there's too many Re's a.a.v at the moment :-) --- asm332@cix.compulink.co.uk | warlock%spuddy@uknet.ac.uk Wanted: UK catalogue numbers for Jefferson Airplane CDs Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:11172 alt.alien.visitors:8362 sci.skeptic:28772 Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!cs.utexas.edu!usc!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!destroyer!fmsrl7!lynx!apsicc.aps.edu!jim From: jim@apsicc.aps.edu (frost...) Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day Message-ID: <12AUG199217320715@apsicc.aps.edu> Date: Thu, 13 Aug 92 00:32:00 GMT Organization: Albuquerque Public Schools - Career Enrichment Center Distribution: usa References: <1992Jun5.011013.1412@beaver.cs.washington.edu> News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41 Lines: 26 In article , ingria@BBN.COM writes... >In article <63859@cup.portal.com> John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes: > > Dear Rock Watchers: Dr. Demonde has found that rocks from around the globe > breathe, but just one inhalation can take anywhere from three days to > two weeks. They have also found that rocks also show signs of brain > activity. Some scientist say they are impressed with the data. In a speech > that the Doctor gave to a group of fellow biologists last month he said > that we recognize that our findings are startling, and we need as much > additional information as possible to back up our work. > So, that's it folks. I think I'll name my rock Lurch. > >Tut, tut. I think you mean Thing. It's much more appropriate! > >-30- >Bob > When he can pick up 'Lurch' and tell what sex it is then maybe I'll be interested. ====================================================================== We are rapidly ascending through prosperity to poverty... Twain Internet: jim@apsicc.aps.edu Albuquerque Public Schools - Instructional System Manager ====================================================================== Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!usc!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!destroyer!fmsrl7!lynx!apsicc.aps.edu!jim From: jim@apsicc.aps.edu (frost...) Subject: Re: Disinformation Agents at Work? Message-ID: <12AUG199217363196@apsicc.aps.edu> Date: Thu, 13 Aug 92 00:36:00 GMT Organization: Albuquerque Public Schools - Career Enrichment Center References: News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41 Lines: 55 In article , jdr@starflight.Corp.Sun.COM writes... >More interesting than wondering whether contributors to this group are part of >a government or ET disinformation campaign is to speculate on what the possible >motives for such a campaign might be. Persons inclined to be suspicious of the >good intentions of government people might attribute such a campaign to: > >1) Expectation on the part of the power elite that disclosure of alien visitation >will jeopardize their positions, so that they need to cover it up to protect >their interests; or > >2) Expectation on the part of a fascist cabal that if they are allowed to work >in secret, they can obtain alien technology that they can use to gain world >power. > >However, those who are more inclined to think government types are mostly nice >guys most of the time might think the motives are: > >3) Concern that premature disclosure would upset and demoralize people and >destabilize society, disturb economic and technical progress, and generally >make things worse for everybody; or > >4) Concern that we are an alien experiment and that if we find out we are and >begin behaving differently as a result of that knowledge, we will lose our >value as scientific subjects and be terminated. > >Better ignorant and alive than enlightened and dead? Could explain a few things. >It least it could be the cover story used to motivate government agents. > >It is also interesting to ask why government or ET agents bother trying to >perpetrate a coverup that is important enough to kill for while at the same >time trying to avoid using lethal methods. What is holding them back? Could it >be that no one knows who all the players are in this game, or what the rules >are, or who is really making the rules? > >The next time you encounter someone you suspect of being a disinformation >agent, you might ask him if he *really* knows who he is working for, or what >his mission *really* is. Whether human or ET, he can't be entirely sure of >anything, and in that we may have some common ground. > >--- > >jdr@starflight.corp.sun.com, starflt@uunet.uu.net >Jon Roland >Starflight Corporation, 1755 E Bayshore Rd #9A, >Redwood City, CA 94063-4142, 415/361-8141 > To paraphrase a quotation from a sci-fi story of years ago: "Who watches the watchers while the watchers are watching you?" ====================================================================== We are rapidly ascending through prosperity to poverty... Twain Internet: jim@apsicc.aps.edu Albuquerque Public Schools - Instructional System Manager ====================================================================== Xref: icaen alt.alien.visitors:8364 alt.conspiracy:17662 alt.activism:31009 sci.skeptic:28773 misc.headlines:23490 alt.politics.bush:2269 Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy,alt.activism,sci.skeptic,misc.headlines,alt.politics.bush Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!psinntp!dg-rtp!patriot!grossg From: grossg@patriot.rtp.dg.com (Gross) Subject: Re: guns and criminals Message-ID: <1992Aug12.153318.8428@dg-rtp.dg.com> Sender: usenet@dg-rtp.dg.com (Usenet Administration) Date: Wed, 12 Aug 92 15:33:18 GMT References: <1992Aug1.162719.21334@mcshub.dcss.mcmaster.ca> Organization: Data General Corporation, RTP, NC. Lines: 103 In article vinsci@nic.funet.fi (Leonard Norrgard) writes: >In article gerry@cmu.edu (Gerry Roston) writes: >> When you look at statistics related to crime, etc, you will find the >> following: >> 1-The US does have a slightly higher murder rate than other countries, >> although it is typically ranked between 5 and 10 on the list of >> countries with the highest murder rates. >> 2-If you remove from the statistics the large US urban regions of NYC, >> Washington DC, Detroit, you will find that the crime rate in the US is >> LOWER than many other countries in the world. > >Right, remove the top crime locations and, surprise, surprise, your >crime rate is suddenly better. To be fair, you should also remove the >corresponding areas from the countries you're comparing with. I >expect that you'll find then that your position on the list hasn't >changed. Wrong!! With those cities removed. America is far less violent than one is led to believe by the media and the gun-control lobbies. >> 3-The above mentioned cities >> -have the most restricitve gun control laws in the country >> -have some of the worst "ghetto" neighborhoods >> >> CONCLUSION: Guns are not the cause of crime. There is absolutely NO >> evidence to even suggest a connection between gun ownership and crime. >> The problems in our country are economic problems. > >Of course not, but *when* a *criminal* carries a gun, he's also more >likely to use it in a stress situation. And I think the criminal is >then also very likely to use the gun in a way that law forbids. > So you'll probably think that this means that there's no reason to >outlaw guns for non-criminal persons. To see why it is a good idea to >make it harder for non-criminals to get guns, you'll have to think of >what the criminal was before he went criminal: he was a non-criminal >of course, and if he planned his crime, he probably had no problem >getting a gun since all records showed he hasn't commited any crimes. >The problem is that the records doen't show what plans he really has >for the gun. Okay, time for a little history!! The criminal element does not simply walk into a gun shop and buy an Uzi, MAC-10, or AK-47. The vast majority of weapons used by criminals come from the "Black Market." This black market is not only the international one that is used even by nations, but also the local black markets run by criminals for criminals. Guns stolen from legitimate gunowners, from US military arsenals, and guns smuggled into the country make up the largest portion of the armament available to the criminals. When I was a teen living in a large Eastern city, I was able to obtain a gun for very little effort and money. I bought a .45 automatic at the age of 13. A friend of mine bought an M-1 Garand (replete with clips and ammo) and a 12ga shotgun. All of this was purchased from a person two blocks from our house -- illegally. The situation has improved today. In the larger cities, obtaining weapons like fully automatic ones is not a problem for the criminal class. They can even obtain grenade launchers, explosives of all sorts, and more. The problem is not that these things aren't illegal. Illegal doesn't matter to a criminal!! You want to end this problem. Allow the law-abiding citizens access to weapons. Throw criminals who use guns in the commission of a crime in jail for life, and if they kill, give them death. You'll see things start to turn around in short order. >The freedom of the state is hardly provided by individuals wearing >guns anymore, but by the military. The military does not provide my freedom in the sense that you intend. If this government ever decided to take away our Constitutional freedoms and implement some sort of tyranny, the military will serve the government and not me or other citizens. The defense of freedom is up to the individual citizens of this nation. Collectively we are the only real defense against the loss of freedom and liberty. We do this mainly through the democratic processes we've established. But ultimately, it is the armed citizenry that forms the final line of defense. To think that it can never come to that is to ignore all of history! >Let me see you revolt against the US army with handguns. I can barely >wait. If it were merely handguns then you'd have a point. >Maybe *you* can live in history, but I prefer to live today, in a >country without lots of unnecessary weapons. What other parts of the Bill of Rights would you like to surrender to the tyranny of the immediate soultion!!? I submit that you are far more dangerous than I am with all of my weapons! I refuse to budge on any freedoms and liberties so dearly won and defended these more than 200 years. History teaches that those who ignore its lessons are condemned to repeat history. Ignore history at your own peril. Fortunately, there are more of us who have learned from history than there are of people like you. Gene Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!olivea!hal.com!decwrl!csus.edu!netcom.com!garys From: garys@netcom.com (Gary Stollman) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Gary Stollman For President... Message-ID: Date: 12 Aug 92 23:30:14 GMT References: <92225.045414ROWHC@CUNYVM.BITNET> Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest) Lines: 38 writes: >You know, a lot of people in this newsgroup go off on Gary >because of the things he writes in his paranoid articles. >Lay off the guy. >I happen to find his material more interesting than most >of the stuff that fills this area on the net. His postings >are especially more interesting than the ridicule he receives >for his efforts (although about six months ago there was >some really hilarious feedback at Gary's expense). >Aren't we supposed to be keeping an open mind about all this? >Its obvious that Gary is a sensitive guy, and apparently he has >been scared off the net by all those nasty nincompoops who bashed >him emotionally and intellectually. >One thing is for sure -- Gary believes the things he is posting. >Also, people are definitely harassing him (those counterfeit "fuck >the CIA" letters clearly were not written by Stollman - I knew that >even before he denied it publicly). >Gee, maybe the government or the greys took his modem away. >Hey - maybe I'm the governement or the greys, and I tracked >Gary down to eat his brain. Better watch out...you may be next! >------- >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ROWHC@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU.BITNET~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >!!!!! ROB WALTERS/ EDITOR, SPHERIC (Global Monthly For Humans) !!!!!!!!!! >!!!!! 695 PARK AVE., NEW YORK, NY 10021 $$$ (212) 772-4279 $$$ !!!!!!!!!! >!!!!!! "HELP STAMP OUT AN END TO ISMISTIC ISMISM." -- HERBERT RONZONI !!! >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Well, I sure appreciate that!! Except for the "paranoid" part...Don't worry! I am STILL here!!! Gary Stollman Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Ley Lines Message-ID: <63914@cup.portal.com> Date: Wed, 12 Aug 92 18:04:53 PDT Organization: The Portal System (TM) References: <63467@cup.portal.com> <63863@cup.portal.com> <1992Aug12.165518.11656@ryn.mro4.dec.com> Lines: 11 Dear Tom: Your right the earth could have grown by 800 or 852 miles. It think it hasn't grown that much. The earth should live to an age of 72.9 trillion years. This information came from T. Lobsang Rampa while he was talking to a person on another planet. The dust fact did come from a conventional Astronomer. Planets are usually destroyed as part of a super nova and then they start over again as part of something else. Now let me give you another fact. The Earth's resonate frequency is 8.3 cycles per second (which varies a little due to certain factors). I wear a watch that has a transmitter in it that puts out a wave of energy at about the same frequency as the Earth resonant frequency. This shields me from ELF (extremely low frequency) radiation. John Winston. Xref: icaen alt.alien.visitors:8367 sci.skeptic:28779 alt.paranormal:5616 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!stanford.edu!unix!clipper!mgm From: mgm@clipper.ingr.com (Mike Marfell) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic,alt.paranormal Subject: Re: Public Opinion Poll. Message-ID: <1992Aug12.210749.8953@clipper.ingr.com> Date: 12 Aug 92 21:07:49 GMT References: <1992Aug7.161433.25597@acd4.acd.com> <1992Aug7.205502.18395@m.cs.uiuc.edu> Organization: Intergraph Advanced Processor Division - Palo Alto, CA Lines: 23 In article <1992Aug7.205502.18395@m.cs.uiuc.edu>, mcgrath@cs.uiuc.edu (Robert McGrath) writes: > In article <1992Aug7.161433.25597@acd4.acd.com>, gvb@TEFS1.acd.com (Gregg Brown) writes: > |> I am taking a poll. This is a public opinion poll. This is a multiple > |> choice quiz on what you believe. > > I never answer surveys unless I am fully informed as to who is collecting > it and why. > > -- > Robert E. McGrath > Urbana Illinois > mcgrath@cs.uiuc.edu It's probably for those pesky Greys I bet. Always trying to start trouble! -- Mike Marfell mgm@clipper.ingr.com Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:11175 alt.alien.visitors:8368 sci.skeptic:28780 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day Message-ID: <63918@cup.portal.com> Date: Wed, 12 Aug 92 18:43:39 PDT Organization: The Portal System (TM) References: <1992Jun5.011013.1412@beaver.cs.washington.edu> Lines: 11 Question, Questions all I ever get is questions. Maybe one of these days I'll get around to answering them, but first things first. Tonight (wednesday) is OOBE (out of body experience) day, at 1100 P.M. Pacific Day Light saving time. This year a person had an operation and while he was under the inflence of a pain killer he had an OOBE experience. This consisted of going to a place like heaven and feeling the presence of God and the whole nine yards. This person is Pope John Paul. In 1984 another person had an OOBE when he was injured, started taking 50 sleeping pills a day and quit cold turkey. He then went into a coma for eight hours. During this time he was unconcious but had an OOBE experience. His name is Burt Reynolds the TV star of the show Evening Shade. John Winston Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!psinntp!dg-rtp!aquila!harrism From: harrism@aquila.rtp.dg.com (Mike Harris) Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day Sender: usenet@dg-rtp.dg.com (Usenet Administration) Message-ID: <1992Aug12.175619.22927@dg-rtp.dg.com> Date: Wed, 12 Aug 92 17:56:19 GMT Reply-To: harrism@dg-rtp.dg.com References: <1992Jun5.011013.1412@beaver.cs.washington.edu> <63859@cup.portal.com> Organization: Data General Corp., Research Triangle Park, NC Lines: 12 In article <63859@cup.portal.com>, John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes: |> Dear Rock Watchers: Dr. Demonde has found that rocks from around the globe |> breathe, but just one inhalation can take anywhere from three days to |> two weeks. They have also found that rocks also show signs of brain |> activity. Some scientist say they are impressed with the data. In a speech |> that the Doctor gave to a group of fellow biologists last month he said |> that we recognize that our findings are startling, and we need as much |> additional information as possible to back up our work. |> So, that's it folks. I think I'll name my rock Lurch. |> John Winston. Damn! My rock must be hyperventilating! And I thought it was slow... Xref: icaen alt.alien.visitors:8370 talk.bizarre:69705 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!mcsun!uknet!ox-prg!oxuniv!reese From: reese@vax.oxford.ac.uk Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,talk.bizarre Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day Message-ID: <1992Aug12.182529.8235@vax.oxford.ac.uk> Date: 12 Aug 92 17:25:29 GMT References: <1992Jun5.011013.1412@beaver.cs.washington.edu><63714@cup.portal.com> <1992Aug11.134931.2078@merrimack.edu> <63859@cup.portal.com> Organization: Oxford University VAX 6620 Lines: 14 In article <63859@cup.portal.com>, John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes: > Dear Rock Watchers: Dr. Demonde has found that rocks from around the globe > breathe, but just one inhalation can take anywhere from three days to > two weeks. They have also found that rocks also show signs of brain > activity. Some scientist say they are impressed with the data. In a speech > that the Doctor gave to a group of fellow biologists last month he said > that we recognize that our findings are startling, and we need as much > additional information as possible to back up our work. > So, that's it folks. I think I'll name my rock Lurch. > John Winston. No, this is my favourite posting of the week after all. Jason Xref: icaen alt.alien.visitors:8371 alt.politics.kibo:71 Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.politics.kibo Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!usc!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!pacific.mps.ohio-state.edu!linac!att!pacbell.com!decwrl!world!kibo From: kibo@world.std.com (James "Kibo" Parry) Subject: Re: Gary Stollman For President... Message-ID: Organization: Between a rock and a type specimen sheet, Boston. References: <92225.045414ROWHC@CUNYVM.BITNET> Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 04:55:56 GMT Lines: 13 [alt.alien.visitors] In article <92225.045414ROWHC@CUNYVM.BITNET> writes: > >Gee, maybe the government or the greys took his modem away. Gary, if you'd like to help take back control from the government, I'm running for president (see alt.politics.kibo.) Would you like to be my running mate? (I asked Mike Jittlov, but he seems to be busy. You're every bit as energetic, and I see energy as the prime quality necessary to properly confuse the media.) -- Kibo Xref: icaen alt.alien.visitors:8372 alt.conspiracy:17670 alt.activism:31024 sci.skeptic:28792 misc.headlines:23499 alt.politics.bush:2312 talk.politics.guns:37895 Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy,alt.activism,sci.skeptic,misc.headlines,alt.politics.bush,talk.politics.guns Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!stanford.edu!CSD-NewsHost.Stanford.EDU!SAIL.Stanford.EDU!andy From: andy@SAIL.Stanford.EDU (Andy Freeman) Subject: Re: Guns and Skeptics Message-ID: <1992Aug12.180144.29432@CSD-NewsHost.Stanford.EDU> Followup-To: talk.politics.guns Sender: news@CSD-NewsHost.Stanford.EDU Organization: Computer Science Department, Stanford University. References: > Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1992 18:01:44 GMT Lines: 34 In article w.p.coyne@newcastle.ac.uk writes: >Are you claiming the robbery rate would be just as high if people >had to use knives. To the extent that crooks prefer their current income level, there would be more robbery. With-gun crime is more economically valueable; a with-gun thug can go after more protected and richer targets. On a dollar basis, with-gun crime is associated with FEWER deaths than with-knife crime. >Yes but a criminal would be more likely to rob if they have a gun >rather than a knife or a stick (IMHO). Unless you're a with-gun robber, your opinion isn't interesting. You don't rob anyway, so you can't comment on what you'd rather rob with. >Are you claiming that if the UK was to allow everyone to own guns >that crime would not increase as a result of this, as criminals >used guns to commit more robberies etc. Since the UK's gun control was not associated with a decrease in crime or murder, it is somewhat unreasonable to claim that gun control is responsible for the low rate, a low rate that predates gun control. If anything, the UK's experiment with gun control demonstrates the failures of gun control. All costs, and no benefits. That's bad social policy. -andy -- UUCP: {arpa gateways, sun, decwrl, uunet, rutgers}!cs.stanford.edu!andy ARPA: andy@cs.stanford.edu Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!usc!sdd.hp.com!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!news.claremont.edu!nntp-server.caltech.edu!keith From: keith@cco.caltech.edu (Keith Allan Schneider) Subject: Re: Crop Circles? Message-ID: <1992Aug13.035027.4847@cco.caltech.edu> Sender: news@cco.caltech.edu Nntp-Posting-Host: coil Organization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena References: <1992Aug10.070053.22751@cco.caltech.edu> <80000@bcsaic.boeing.com> <1992Aug12.100452.26123@cco.caltech.edu> <3276@bcstec.ca.boeing.com> Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 03:50:27 GMT Lines: 96 kuryakin@bcstec.ca.boeing.com (Rick Pavek) writes: >In article <1992Aug12.100452.26123@cco.caltech.edu> keith@cco.caltech.edu (Keith Allan Schneider) writes: >> >>You can easily convince me that the crop circles were created by aliens. Just >Can you prove that the ALL of the circles WERE created by humankind? You're the one saying they are created by aliens. So, just show me one instance in which this is true, and I will believe you. >>Now, obviously that aliens, if they exist, do not want us to know that they >>are here, right? >If they do exist, I'm not willing to make any presumptions about them at all. Why not? If they exist, and if we do not know about them, then this must be by design. You can't accidently hide... >>Or else they would just land on the White House lawn like in that moive (you know the one). >Sure. _The Day the Earth Stood Still_. I recall the alien got killed >by those mad, irrational humans. You think that we would pose a theat to a race that travelled from another star system? >>So why would an alien that is intelligent >>enough to create some means to travel about 4 light years at least land his >>craft in the middle of a corn field if he knew that it would leave behind >>traces? And besides, we never see and landing gear imprints, do we? All we >>see is a circle of crops that look like they have been smashed over by some >>guy with a 2X4. >Actually, the contention is not that they landed and imprinted the >circles... rather they used some means to 'draw' the circles. Much like >graffiti. And we see some (heresay perhaps, but we listen to the >take all kinds of circumstantial evidence and take it as believeable.) >circles that don't appear to match the descriptions of a 2x4 induced >phenomena. Oh, so they intentionally leave graffiti behind just to mess with our minds? >>And now, let's assume that the government has some top secret craft that >>would create such a circle. As above, the government wouldn't be dumb >There have been books that speculated that the government created the >UFO phenomena to cover up other activities... Oh? You think that KGB agents are going to be fooled by UFO stories? Why would the governement want to trick the public? They could just easily say, "Oh, that is a top secret craft we are developing. Sorry, we can't tell you any more," and no one would blink an eye. >>Now, we have documented cases in which exact such circles have been created >>by hoaxsters. Why the need for some supernatural explanation? The "guys >>with plank" theory seems to work perfectly. Until we see more evidence that >>indicates that this theory is not sufficient to explain the phenomenon, I >>see no use to propose something fantastic. >I am more skeptical than that... I'm not going to write it off to >one quick and dirty explanation. The hoaxters were disreputable people >thought to have government subsidies. Why should I believe vandals? If you were a true skeptic, you would believe neither the hoaxster or the alien explanations. >Better yet, if all of them were made by humans, then WHERE ARE THE >OTHER HUMANS??? All humans brag. Show me the others. Surely there >are some... If I go out in a field and destroy someone's crops, you wouldn't find me bragging about it. Besides, it I admitted to it, then it wouldn't be any more fun. >>My mind is closed you say? No, I admit that there is a very very remote >>possibility that there are very dumb aliens out there. I suppose it could >>be like the nutty professor who concots the GUT but then locks his keys in his >>car. I sincerely doubt though that aliens would overlook this footprint. >>Show be an alien creating a crop circle, and I will believe that aliens >>create them. >OK, let's say you've placed your bet. You can even sleep soundly with >it. I still see information coming in, and I'll place my bet later. >Like I said in an earlier post... keep my email address. If there ever >is an open invasion, I want to hear your explanation for it... or eat crow. >I'll invite you to the ceremony if you can ever prove your contentions, and >let you see me do the same. (I prefer ketchup. Actually, crow is pretty >good... ;-) So you think that there is going to be an alien invasion? keith >Rick >-- >Rick Pavek | Never ask a droid to outdo its program. >kuryakin@bcstec.boeing.com | >AppleLink: kuryakin | It wastes your time >r.pavek1@GENIE | and annoys the droid. Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!usc!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!news.claremont.edu!nntp-server.caltech.edu!keith From: keith@cco.caltech.edu (Keith Allan Schneider) Subject: Re: Crop Circles? Message-ID: <1992Aug13.035215.4924@cco.caltech.edu> Sender: news@cco.caltech.edu Nntp-Posting-Host: coil Organization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena References: <14104@mindlink.bc.ca> <1992Aug9.022331.9288@cco.caltech.edu> <3277@bcstec.ca.boeing.com> Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 03:52:15 GMT Lines: 18 kuryakin@bcstec.ca.boeing.com (Rick Pavek) writes: >In article <1992Aug9.022331.9288@cco.caltech.edu> keith@cco.caltech.edu (Keith Allan Schneider) writes: >> >>Who said anything about flying around the world? >> >Let us rephrase... How do you explain the crop circles in the US, Canada, >Mexico, and Australia? And others, as far as I know... >Other humans? Prove they were all made by humans. Don't just assume. The burden of proof is on you. You are claiming a supernatural explanation for the circles. I cannot prove that aliens did NOT make them, but you can easily prove that aliens DID make them. You just need to show one instance in which this is true. keith Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!usc!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!news.claremont.edu!nntp-server.caltech.edu!keith From: keith@cco.caltech.edu (Keith Allan Schneider) Subject: Re: Crop Circles? Message-ID: <1992Aug13.035453.5020@cco.caltech.edu> Sender: news@cco.caltech.edu Nntp-Posting-Host: coil Organization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena References: <1992Aug7.181652.26139@acd4.acd.com> <1992Aug8.065811.3941@cco.caltech.edu> <24754@castle.ed.ac.uk> <3272@bcstec.ca.boeing.com> Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 03:54:53 GMT Lines: 21 kuryakin@bcstec.ca.boeing.com (Rick Pavek) writes: >In article <24754@castle.ed.ac.uk> fofp@castle.ed.ac.uk (M Holmes) writes: >>keith@cco.caltech.edu (Keith Allan Schneider) writes: >> >>1) In any given paranormal scenario, the Believers will believe and the >> Skeptics will be skeptical. >> >>However once it's been shown how that the paranormal scenario can be >>accomplished by ordinary means: >> >>2) The Skeptics will believe and the Believers will be Skeptical. >Well Struck, Keith! >Rick I didn't write that. Give credit where credit is due. keith Xref: icaen alt.alien.visitors:8376 alt.paranormal:5618 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!bcstec!kuryakin From: kuryakin@bcstec.ca.boeing.com (Rick Pavek) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.paranormal Subject: Re: physical evidence Message-ID: <3283@bcstec.ca.boeing.com> Date: 12 Aug 92 23:36:00 GMT References: <1992Aug11.092619.1@cubldr.colorado.edu> <1992Aug11.195522.110@m.cs.uiuc.edu> Followup-To: alt.alien.visitors Organization: Boeing Lines: 32 In article nelson_p@apollo.hp.com (Peter Nelson) writes: > events in it. Turn on a videotape loop every night before going > to bed. Maybe prepare the ground outside to mark footprints. > Set up automatic video or camera equipment around the house > to record people (beings, whatever) going in and out. Et cetera. It's been done. There are recordings of a subject sleepwalking while she turns the camera off. Supposedly the beings remained off-camera until this happened. Now part of the claims of the abductees is that there seems to be a form of telepathy involved. If that's the case (What? Now I have to prove Telepathy, Too??) then you'll not only have to put a camera on the victim and their residence, but you'll also have to do it without the victim's knowledge. And also, you'll have to avoid having someone watching from nearby, with the knowledge the events are taped. You might put someone nearby, and put them on camera, too, without their knowledge. If they know about it, they can think about it, and if Telepathy is associated with this, then the abductors will know about it. Of course, they might have some means to scan for electrical activity nearby... Rick -- Rick Pavek | Never ask a droid to outdo its program. kuryakin@bcstec.boeing.com | AppleLink: kuryakin | It wastes your time r.pavek1@GENIE | and annoys the droid. Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!bcstec!kuryakin From: kuryakin@bcstec.ca.boeing.com (Rick Pavek) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Crop Circles? Message-ID: <3284@bcstec.ca.boeing.com> Date: 13 Aug 92 00:04:42 GMT References: <1992Aug12.112650.25645@dartvax.dartmouth.edu> <85988@netnews.upenn.edu> Organization: Boeing Lines: 89 In article <85988@netnews.upenn.edu> jmv@grip.cis.upenn.edu (Jean-Marc Vezien) writes: >In article <1992Aug12.112650.25645@dartvax.dartmouth.edu>, Rickie.A.Slater@dartmouth.edu (Rickie A. Slater) writes: >> >kuryakin@bcstec.ca.boeing.com (Rick Pavek) writes: >> >> >I doubt that any aliens or government people would have created such >circles. There is no reason for it. >> >> Try realizing that there is more that you don't know than there is that >> you do know. Most reasons are beyond our comprehension. > >With that kind of remark, we won't go very far. So we should take the crop circles as complete >mysteries (or equivalently as alien spaceships, as we cannot understand their true motives), and >not wonder any further ? I wouln't say there's no reason for crop circles, but the same as >kuryakin@bcstec.ca.boeing.com says: > > >> >Why land in the middle of crops, making a stange formation that will get > >people suspicious when you could easily land in some other place that would >leave no such "evidence." >> >> If you had work to do in a place where no one could overpower or >> influence you would you really care what kind of impression you made, >> on the planet surface or on the inhabitants lives? >> > >YES, DEFINITLY YES. I think the "Prime Directive" argument of Star Trek could >apply to aliens as well. Besides, if the aliens really didn't care, they would >land randomly. Too bad they never land in center city. > > >JM. I didna' say that. You are getting your "XXX XXX said" lines mixed up. I'm the one challenging the "Har, Har, it was them dumb humans that made the crop circles" group with the concept that there may be other explanations... Rick Pavek | Never ask a droid to outdo its program. kuryakin@bcstec.boeing.com | AppleLink: kuryakin | It wastes your time r.pavek1@GENIE | and annoys the droid. -- Rick Pavek | Never ask a droid to outdo its program. kuryakin@bcstec.boeing.com | AppleLink: kuryakin | It wastes your time r.pavek1@GENIE | and annoys the droid. Xref: icaen alt.alien.visitors:8378 alt.conspiracy:17671 alt.activism:31025 sci.skeptic:28796 misc.headlines:23500 talk.politics.guns:37898 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!pipex!unipalm!uknet!mcsun!news.funet.fi!network.jyu.fi!tukki!otto From: otto@tukki.jyu.fi (Otto J. Makela) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy,alt.activism,sci.skeptic,misc.headlines,talk.politics.guns Subject: Re: UFO "October Surprise" and USA TAKEOVER?! Message-ID: Date: 12 Aug 92 13:50:11 GMT References: <1992Aug2.060950.29308@cbnewse.cb.att.com> <8B91oB1w165w@bluemoon.rn.com> <1992Aug6.143155.25460@mcshub.dcss.mcmaster.ca> <1992Aug6.192350.27305@clpd.kodak.com> Sender: otto@jyu.fi (Otto J. Makela) Followup-To: talk.politics.guns Organization: The Crimson Permanent Assurance Company Lines: 22 In-Reply-To: fischer@li.serum.kodak.com's message of Thu, 6 Aug 1992 19: 23:50 GMT In article <1992Aug6.192350.27305@clpd.kodak.com> fischer@li.serum.kodak.com (Chris Fischer (x39613)) writes: In article <1992Aug6.143155.25460@mcshub.dcss.mcmaster.ca> bunker@physun.physics.mcmaster.ca (Alex Bunker) writes: >In article <8B91oB1w165w@bluemoon.rn.com> garys@bluemoon.rn.com (Gary Stollman) writes: [gun comments from Gary's clone] >In waht way are Canadians Germans UKers and Frenchman less "free" >than americans. To start with, they are not free to carry guns. Nor are we free to drive down the freeway in the wrong direction. It's all the matter of what is percieved as too dangerous to be allowed. I've never felt the need to carry a gun (even though I've been in some pretty tight spots), and I'm glad I live in a society where I don't have to. The fact that yearly much more people in the United States get killed by guns than in Europe of course has nothing to do with gun control, right ? -- /* * * Otto J. Makela * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * */ /* Phone: +358 41 613 847, BBS: +358 41 211 562 (V.32bis/USR-HST,24h/d) */ /* Mail: Kauppakatu 1B18/SF-40100 Jyvaskyla/Finland, ICBM: 62.14N25.44E */ /* * * Computers Rule 01001111 01001011 * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * */ Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:11176 alt.alien.visitors:8379 sci.skeptic:28797 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!pipex!unipalm!uknet!mcsun!news.funet.fi!network.jyu.fi!tukki!otto From: otto@tukki.jyu.fi (Otto J. Makela) Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Subject: Re: Ride on John's Back, Please! (Was: Re: Get Off John's Back Message-ID: Date: 12 Aug 92 14:14:37 GMT References: <63388@cup.portal.com> <63465@cup.portal.com> <63498@cup.portal.com> <63529@cup.portal.com> <63711@cup.portal.com> Sender: otto@jyu.fi (Otto J. Makela) Organization: The Crimson Permanent Assurance Company Lines: 15 In-Reply-To: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com's message of Sun, 9 Aug 92 07: 43:09 PDT In article <63711@cup.portal.com> John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes: The nine named stars are: Atlas, the father, spectral type B8 III, magnitude 3.6 290 light years away. Pleione, the mother, spectral type B8, magnitude 5.1, 95 light years away. Alcyone, spectral type B7 III, mignitude 2.9, 240 light years away. Asterope, spectral type V, magnitude 5.8, 490 light years away. Celaeno, spectral type B7 IV, magnitude 5.5, 590 light years away. Electra, spectral type B6 III, mag. 3.7, 390 ly distant. -----JW The aliens still couldn't count to nine ? -- /* * * Otto J. Makela * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * */ /* Phone: +358 41 613 847, BBS: +358 41 211 562 (V.32bis/USR-HST,24h/d) */ /* Mail: Kauppakatu 1B18/SF-40100 Jyvaskyla/Finland, ICBM: 62.14N25.44E */ /* * * Computers Rule 01001111 01001011 * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * */ Xref: icaen sci.skeptic:28799 alt.alien.visitors:8380 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!pipex!unipalm!uknet!mcsun!news.funet.fi!network.jyu.fi!tukki!otto From: otto@tukki.jyu.fi (Otto J. Makela) Newsgroups: sci.skeptic,alt.alien.visitors Subject: UFO-skeptical film/tv documentaries ? Message-ID: Date: 12 Aug 92 15:31:48 GMT Sender: otto@jyu.fi (Otto J. Makela) Followup-To: sci.skeptic Organization: The Crimson Permanent Assurance Company Lines: 15 The Finnish commercial TV has really outdone itself in sillines recently, by showing a "documentary" which abandoned all logic and source critisism for a blue-eyed acceptance of all possible claims of "UFOlogy" (including the all-pervading conspiracy, OOBEs, sexual exploits of aliens etc.) I am looking for references to *skeptical* film/tv documentaries which the Finnish Skeptics could suggest to them for showing as a rational "counterweight" to all this. I am aware of one NOVA episode about UFO's. How good is it ? -- /* * * Otto J. Makela * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * */ /* Phone: +358 41 613 847, BBS: +358 41 211 562 (V.32bis/USR-HST,24h/d) */ /* Mail: Kauppakatu 1B18/SF-40100 Jyvaskyla/Finland, ICBM: 62.14N25.44E */ /* * * Computers Rule 01001111 01001011 * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * */ Xref: icaen alt.alien.visitors:8381 alt.conspiracy:17672 alt.activism:31029 sci.skeptic:28806 misc.headlines:23501 alt.politics.bush:2318 Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy,alt.activism,sci.skeptic,misc.headlines,alt.politics.bush Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!usc!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!destroyer!ncar!csn!boulder!ucsu!ucsu.Colorado.EDU!buckley From: buckley@ucsu.Colorado.EDU (BUCKLEY CHARLES RAY) Subject: Re: People bitching about this post! (was Re: UFO "October Surprise" and USA TAKEOVER?!) Message-ID: <1992Aug13.051359.19114@ucsu.Colorado.EDU> Sender: news@ucsu.Colorado.EDU (USENET News System) Nntp-Posting-Host: ucsu.colorado.edu Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder References: <1992Aug7.001302.8228@mprgate.mpr.ca> <1992Aug10.160749.19913@lmt.mn.org> Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 05:13:59 GMT Lines: 52 In article <1992Aug10.160749.19913@lmt.mn.org> alexa@county.lmt.mn.org (Dave Alexander) writes: >In article <1992Aug7.001302.8228@mprgate.mpr.ca>, spani@mprgate.mpr.ca (Leonard Spani) writes: >> >> In article , cary@carina.unm.edu (Ithlial the Archer) >> [...] >> >> Enough already! >> >> Get this topic out of alt.alien.visitors. >> > >What is wrong with you people anyway? Do you only read the net once a month? > >The original post that started the guns thing was about a dictatorship being >imposed on the United States by George Bush after he canceled the November >elections by declaring a national emergency, at which point ALIENS would take >over the earth. > >So, in fact, the original poster had the following right and wrong: > >It WAS relevant to alt.alen.visitors, alt.conspiracy, sci.skeptic >and alt.politics.bush. > >It should not, however, have been posted to alt.activism. > >Now quit bitching about this cross-posting! > >The net works this way: > >If you see a topic called: UFO "October Surprise" and USA TAKEOVER?!, you select >it and read the first post. If you do not care to read any more then DO NOT READ >ANY MORE TOPICS WITH THAT HEADING!! > An alternate method is that the people posting develope some etiquette nad quit posting to newsgroups that no longer have anything to do with the items being discussed. If you are saying that it is alright to crosspost to this newsgroup then it should be perfectly acceptable for the people here to crosspost back and tell the people there to get the hell off the newsgroup. >Get it? > Do you get it? >JEEZUS! > If you wish to point out that he is alive and well on Venus, then post to this group. Otherwise fuck off. >-- Alex -- Charles Buckley Xref: icaen alt.alien.visitors:8382 alt.politics.kibo:72 Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.politics.kibo Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!mnemosyne.cs.du.edu!nyx!rmwaugh From: rmwaugh@nyx.cs.du.edu (go on go on) Subject: Re: Gary Stollman For President... Message-ID: <1992Aug13.063027.10441@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu> Summary: jst w0ndering X-Disclaimer: Nyx is a pblic access nix system rn by the niversity of Denver for the Denver commnity. The niversity has neither control over nor responsibility for the opinions of sers. Keywords: sex sex sex sex kibo sex sex job sex sex sex enema Sender: usenet@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu (netnews admin account) Organization: The Fondation For the Elimination of the letter ' '. References: <92225.045414ROWHC@CUNYVM.BITNET> Date: Thu, 13 Aug 92 06:30:27 GMT Lines: 14 ThIs Is my formaL reqesT for The posITIon of MInsTer of Enema's... If yo wILL noTIce I am very weLL qaLIfIed, I keep my LeGs crossed, I remap my keys when I feeL sexaLLy arosed, and I am proTesTInG The se of The LeTTer ... I am aLso a memBer of The fondaTIon for The eLImInaTIon of The LeTTer ' '... Thank yo very mch for yor TIme and fInGernaIL cLIppInGs, They wILL Go on my refrIGeraTor once I fIGre oT where IT ran off To... I Gess I shoLd have LIsTened when They ToLd me To Go caTch IT... -- ================================================================================ Whatever you attempted to do has tried to invoke a shell. Shell access requires validation -- read item 'a' in the 'i'nformation menu. Xref: icaen alt.alien.visitors:8383 alt.politics.kibo:74 Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.politics.kibo Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sdd.hp.com!mips!news.cs.indiana.edu!umn.edu!csus.edu!netcom.com!garys From: garys@netcom.com (Gary Stollman) Subject: Re: Gary Stollman For President... Message-ID: Date: Thu, 13 Aug 92 07:23:02 GMT Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest) References: <92225.045414ROWHC@CUNYVM.BITNET> Lines: 32 kibo@world.std.com (James "Kibo" Parry) writes: >[alt.alien.visitors] >In article <92225.045414ROWHC@CUNYVM.BITNET> writes: >> >>Gee, maybe the government or the greys took his modem away. >Gary, if you'd like to help take back control from the government, I'm >running for president (see alt.politics.kibo.) Would you like to be my >running mate? (I asked Mike Jittlov, but he seems to be busy. You're >every bit as energetic, and I see energy as the prime quality necessary >to properly confuse the media.) > -- Kibo Thanks, but I am NOT sure people would have a very positive view of me...In fact, we might need to run on an "Insanity" Platform, that is, the other guys are MORE insane than WE are...If you feel this is ok, let me know before I bring the present government to its knees... Gary A A D C A A A Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!usc!sdd.hp.com!apollo.hp.com!netnews From: nelson_p@apollo.hp.com (Peter Nelson) Subject: Re: physical evidence Sender: usenet@apollo.hp.com (Usenet News) Message-ID: Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 13:04:26 GMT References: <1992Aug11.195522.110@m.cs.uiuc.edu> <3283@bcstec.ca.boeing.com> Nntp-Posting-Host: c.ch.apollo.hp.com Organization: Hewlett-Packard Corporation, Chelmsford, MA Lines: 53 In article <3283@bcstec.ca.boeing.com> kuryakin@bcstec.ca.boeing.com (Rick Pavek) writes: >In article nelson_p@apollo.hp.com (Peter Nelson) writes: >> events in it. Turn on a videotape loop every night before going >> to bed. Maybe prepare the ground outside to mark footprints. >> Set up automatic video or camera equipment around the house >> to record people (beings, whatever) going in and out. Et cetera. > > >It's been done. There are recordings of a subject sleepwalking while >she turns the camera off. Supposedly the beings remained off-camera until >this happened. > >Now part of the claims of the abductees is that there seems to be a form >of telepathy involved. If that's the case (What? Now I have to prove >Telepathy, Too??) then you'll not only have to put a camera on the >victim and their residence, but you'll also have to do it without >the victim's knowledge. Or just have it set on some kind of timer so it can't be turned off. Besides if the aliens had this kind of power why don't they just use their telepathic powers to prevent us from talking about it or to prevent hypnotists from "regressing" these people, or whatever? Why not set up a video system with a telephoto and image intensifier on an adjacent piece of property to record UFOs or the "abductee" being taken out of the house? If my next door neighbor claimed frequent abductions I'd happily allow such a system in my house and I *never* sleepwalk. You know and I know that all you can offer are VERY weak excuses for why there's no decent evidence of abductions. >someone watching from nearby, with the knowledge the events are taped. >You might put someone nearby, and put them on camera, too, without >their knowledge. If they know about it, they can think about it, and >if Telepathy is associated with this, then the abductors will know >about it. > >Of course, they might have some means to scan for electrical activity >nearby... So what? So then they don't do the abductions? At least this way the "abductees" can get a decent night's sleep without having to worry about waking up with some alien souvenirs stuck up their nose and more expensive hypnotist's bills to find out how it got there! 8-) ---peter Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!decwrl!pa.dec.com!nntpd2.cxo.dec.com!acetek.enet.dec.com!timpson From: timpson@acetek.enet.dec.com () Subject: Re: Ley Lines Message-ID: <1992Aug13.125719.26605@nntpd2.cxo.dec.com> Lines: 53 Sender: usenet@nntpd2.cxo.dec.com (USENET News System) Reply-To: timpson@acetek.enet.dec.com () Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation References: <63467@cup.portal.com> <63861@cup.portal.com> <1992Aug12.165201.11575@ryn.mro4.dec.com> Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 12:57:19 GMT In article <1992Aug12.165201.11575@ryn.mro4.dec.com>, randolph@est.enet.dec.com (Tom Randolph) writes: |>Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors |>Path: nntpd2.cxo.dec.com!pa.dec.com!oct17.dfe.dec.com!ryn.mro4.dec.com!est.enet.dec.com!randolph |>From: randolph@est.enet.dec.com (Tom Randolph) |>Subject: Re: Ley Lines |>Message-ID: <1992Aug12.165201.11575@ryn.mro4.dec.com> |>Sender: news@ryn.mro4.dec.com (USENET News System) |>Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation |>References: <63467@cup.portal.com> <63861@cup.portal.com> |>Date: 12 AUG 92 12:43:59 |> |> |>In article <63861@cup.portal.com>, John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes... |>>earth around the stakes that cosmic dust and other things are settleing |>>on the earth at a rate of one foot every thousand years.-----JW |> |>For a total depth of 800 miles of dust since the Earth formed! Where is all |>this dust? |> |>-Tom R. randolph@est.enet.dec.com |> John...John...John... Once again you are showing you ignorance (Not You Tom) and lack of a grasp on reality. The Cosmic dust test was done on top of one of the high Hawaiian Island mountain peaks. Creationists were trying to prove that cosmic dust settles at a rate that would account for the many layers of the Earth that geologist claim formed over millios/billions of years. All the creationist proved was that the Earth has a very dusty atmosphere. Get a life John and wake up and smell the coffee. Steve Food_for_the_Grays -- ----------------------------------------------------------------- | | | My atheism, like that of Spinoza, is true piety towards the | | universe and denies only gods fashioned by men in their own | | image to be servants of their human interests. | | | | -- George Santayana | | | ----------------------------------------------------------------- Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:11180 alt.alien.visitors:8386 sci.skeptic:28819 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Subject: Re: Ride on John's Back, Please! (Was: Re: Get Off John's Back Message-ID: <63968@cup.portal.com> Date: Thu, 13 Aug 92 06:19:00 PDT Organization: The Portal System (TM) References: <63388@cup.portal.com> <63465@cup.portal.com> <63498@cup.portal.com> <63529@cup.portal.com><63711@cup.portal.com> Lines: 11 Dear Astralnauts: We now have another traveller. His name is Walter D. He is the same person who posted the original material for the lady in this collection. I hope he can stand the heat of all the flames by me letting his name be known. Last night I had quite an encounter in the lower astral realms while going through the lower astral and on my way to the realms of light. I came in contact with four astral creatures that startled me so much that I let out two yells in such a close period of time that it nearly took me breath away. I probubly scared them too because I probubly looked to them like a ball of light moving at a fast pace. John Winston. Xref: icaen alt.alien.visitors:8387 sci.skeptic:28821 alt.paranormal:5621 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!dtix!darwin.sura.net!jvnc.net!glassboro.edu!cass8806 From: cass8806@elan.glassboro.edu (KYLE CASSIDY) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic,alt.paranormal Subject: Re: physical evidence Message-ID: Date: 13 Aug 92 13:29:02 GMT References: <1992Aug9.015509.12070@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> <1992Aug11.223749.17777@ims.com> Sender: news@gboro.glassboro.edu (USENET News System) Organization: Glassboro State College, Glassboro, NJ Lines: 14 Nntp-Posting-Host: bizlab210.glassboro.edu In article userDHAL@mts.ucs.UAlberta.CA (David Halliwell) writes: >chapman@ims.com (Dave Chapman) writes: >> For instance a >>lap top computer given to an abductee in 1955 would have been very >>credible physical evidence. Now of course you will have to come up >>with something fancier than a lap top computer. > > There we have it! The proof! We now actually *have* laptop computers, >so aliens *must* have left them behind in 1955! it would appear that the evidence is incontrovertable. Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!decwrl!pa.dec.com!nntpd2.cxo.dec.com!acetek.enet.dec.com!timpson From: timpson@acetek.enet.dec.com () Subject: Re: Ley Lines Message-ID: <1992Aug13.130939.26768@nntpd2.cxo.dec.com> Lines: 34 Sender: usenet@nntpd2.cxo.dec.com (USENET News System) Reply-To: timpson@acetek.enet.dec.com () Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation References: <63467@cup.portal.com> <63914@cup.portal.com> Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 13:09:39 GMT In article <63914@cup.portal.com>, John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes: |>Path: nntpd2.cxo.dec.com!pa.dec.com!decwrl!olivea!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston |>Now let me give you another fact. The Earth's resonate frequency is 8.3 |>cycles per second (which varies a little due to certain factors). I wear |>a watch that has a transmitter in it that puts out a wave of energy at |>about the same frequency as the Earth resonant frequency. This shields |>me from ELF (extremely low frequency) radiation. John Winston. |> Dear John (one who is not operating on all cylinders) You should where Aluminum froil in you underware also. this will protect you from the Grays Microwave transmissions which they are using to cook us all for dinner. Steve Food_for_the_Grays_and_who_is_about_medium_rare_right_now -- ----------------------------------------------------------------- | | | My atheism, like that of Spinoza, is true piety towards the | | universe and denies only gods fashioned by men in their own | | image to be servants of their human interests. | | | | -- George Santayana | | | ----------------------------------------------------------------- Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Ley Lines Message-ID: <63969@cup.portal.com> Date: Thu, 13 Aug 92 06:36:51 PDT Organization: The Portal System (TM) References: <63467@cup.portal.com> <63863@cup.portal.com> <1992Aug12.165518.11656@ryn.mro4.dec.com> <63914@cup.portal.com> Lines: 4 A person just reminded be that my watch was invented by Dr. Adrijah Puharich and is called a Teslar watch named in honor of N. Tesla, a great inventor. John Winston. Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!cleveland.Freenet.Edu!cc203 From: cc203@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (David R. Stepien) Subject: Re: Crop Circles? Message-ID: <1992Aug13.141822.14638@usenet.ins.cwru.edu> Sender: news@usenet.ins.cwru.edu Nntp-Posting-Host: slc4.ins.cwru.edu Reply-To: stepiend@rcwcl1.dnet.bp.com (David R. Stepien) Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio, (USA) Date: Thu, 13 Aug 92 14:18:22 GMT Lines: 41 kuryakin@bcstec.ca.boeing.com (Rick Pavek) writes: >In article <1992Aug11.152555.10275@usenet.ins.cwru.edu> stepiend@rcwcl1.dnet.bp. >com writes: > >>Crop circles have been found in fields of rape flowers in England. >>When the circles were formed, the plants were about as bendable as >>a stalk of celery. Everyone knows what happens when you try to bend >>celery - it snaps. Yet these plants were bent at perfect 90 degree >>angles without a break. Quote from "Crop Circle Communique" - "There >>is not a single botanist on the face of the earth that can explain >>how this occurred". > >Citations, please. > >Or the address for the newsletters... (yes, again if it's been posted). >And ftp site for info on circles would be peachy. And an address for >the admin of a mail.list. > >Thanks, Rick I haven't seen any of the skeptics picking up on this one - come on you guys, how do you explain it???????? Here's the reference: Crop Circle Communique Video - $35.00 Available from: Linda Moulton Howe Productions P.O. Box 538 Huntington Valley, PA. 19006 Also: The Cerealogist - The Journal for Crop Circle Studies 20 Paul Street, Frome, Somerset, England BA11 1DX or call your order to 0373-451777 1 yr subscription (3 issues) for $18 US Another good reference is the Feb. 1 1992 Issue of Science News which discusses the geometrical significance of many of the designs. Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:11181 alt.alien.visitors:8391 sci.skeptic:28824 Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!darwin.sura.net!tulane!rouge!USLVM.USL.EDU!CCENS03 From: CCENS03@USLVM.USL.EDU Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day Message-ID: <168428468.CCENS03@USLVM.USL.EDU> Sender: anon@usl.edu (Anonymous NNTP Posting) Organization: University of Southwestern Louisiana References: <1992Jun5.011013.1412@beaver.cs.washington.edu> <12AUG199217320715@apsicc.aps.edu> Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 14:24:53 GMT Lines: 26 In article <12AUG199217320715@apsicc.aps.edu> jim@apsicc.aps.edu (frost...) writes: > >In article , ingria@BBN.COM writes... >>In article <63859@cup.portal.com> John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes: >> >> Dear Rock Watchers: Dr. Demonde has found that rocks from around the globe >> breathe, but just one inhalation can take anywhere from three days to >> two weeks. They have also found that rocks also show signs of brain >> activity. Some scientist say they are impressed with the data. In a speech >> that the Doctor gave to a group of fellow biologists last month he said >> that we recognize that our findings are startling, and we need as much >> additional information as possible to back up our work. >> So, that's it folks. I think I'll name my rock Lurch. >> >>Tut, tut. I think you mean Thing. It's much more appropriate! >> >>-30- >>Bob >> > > When he can pick up 'Lurch' and tell what sex it > is then maybe I'll be interested. > Why? are you a rockophile? Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!mnemosyne.cs.du.edu!nyx!arpowell From: arpowell@nyx.cs.du.edu (Aimee Powell) Subject: Re: Crop Circles? Message-ID: <1992Aug13.150520.21049@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu> X-Disclaimer: Nyx is a public access Unix system run by the University of Denver for the Denver community. The University has neither control over nor responsibility for the opinions of users. Sender: usenet@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu (netnews admin account) Organization: Nyx, Public Access Unix at U. of Denver Math/CS dept. References: <1992Aug13.141822.14638@usenet.ins.cwru.edu> Date: Thu, 13 Aug 92 15:05:20 GMT Lines: 10 As I understand it, the Science News article took great care to call the circles hoaxes, and to point out that some people had already come forward saying that they had made some of the circles. I wouldn't really call that article a good reference, if one were looking for support of the "aliens are coming" theory. Aimee Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!usc!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!destroyer!ubc-cs!unixg.ubc.ca!kakwa.ucs.ualberta.ca!access.usask.ca!ccu.umanitoba.ca!rutkows From: rutkows@ccu.umanitoba.ca (Chris Rutkowski) Subject: Re: Sighting in New Brunswick, Canada Message-ID: <1992Aug13.152848.10569@ccu.umanitoba.ca> Organization: University of Manitoba, Winnipeg, Canada References: <1992Aug12.184845.6939@ac.dal.ca> Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 15:28:48 GMT Lines: 38 In <1992Aug12.184845.6939@ac.dal.ca> skibbens@ac.dal.ca writes: >Did anyone else hear about a sighting in rural New Brunswick, >Canada, around the end of July? I heard about it from two >friends when I was up visiting during the first week of August. >They say that a large number of people around Woodstock, NB, >reporting sighting one large blob of light, followed by two >smaller blobs. A friend at CBC Newsworld says that they >showed a home-video of this sighting on national TV. Although >neither of these two saw it themself, they said that someone >I do know saw the lights. I'm planning to check with him when >I get back up there around the end of the month. >If anyone has more info about this, or knows of anyone else up >there to talk to, please let me know. I e-mailed you Stanton Friedman's phone number, but I thought I'd post a general note to the NET as well. For gosh sakes, PLEASE REPORT ALL UFO SIGHTINGS to local or national UFO groups. In Canada, UFOROM compiles an annual report on UFO sightings, and statistically analyses the data. Researchers across Canada contribute data to the UFOROM database, but you need to send your reports to someone so the cases can be studied! In the USA, go ahead and report your sightings to MUFON or whatever group you want. Paul Ferrughelli produces a similar review of American UFO cases, and gets some data from MUFON. In other countries, try GEPAN, SOBEPS, BUFORA, NUFON, or whoever. But report the sightings to someone! Statistically, even UFOs that turn out to be IFOs are useful as data. Thx! -- Chris Rutkowski - rutkows@ccu.umanitoba.ca Royal Astronomical Society of Canada University of Manitoba - Winnipeg, Canada Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!haven.umd.edu!darwin.sura.net!mips!sdd.hp.com!news.cs.indiana.edu!nstn.ns.ca!paul_l From: paul_l@aci_1.aci.ns.ca (PAUL LIDDARD) Subject: REPOST (THE ULTIMATE SECRET) Message-ID: Summary: I WOULD LIKE TO READ THE POSTINGS OF THE ULTIMATE SECRET AND ANY OF THE INFO ABOUT THE GREYS AND THEIR SECRET ABDUCTIONS. Sender: usenet@nstn.ns.ca (NNTP Entity) Organization: Atlantic Computer Institute Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 17:06:18 GMT Lines: 3 LIKE TO HAVE THE ULTIMATE SECRET BULLITINS REPOSTED. WOULD LIKE TO SAVE THE INFO FOR MY OWN RESEARCH. ANY INFO IS APPRICIATED. THANKS <<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>> Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:11182 alt.alien.visitors:8395 sci.skeptic:28839 Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!rosevax!aquarius!grante From: grante@aquarius.rosemount.com (Grant Edwards) Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day Message-ID: <1992Aug13.154239.23288@rosevax.rosemount.com> Sender: news@rosevax.rosemount.com (USENET News administrator) Nntp-Posting-Host: aquarius Reply-To: grante@aquarius.rosemount.com (Grant Edwards) Organization: Rosemount, Inc. References: <63887@cup.portal.com> Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 15:42:39 GMT Lines: 20 John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes: : Dear Astral Folk and Rock Watchers: Remember today is the fourth weekly : Astral OOBE Party. Pack your astral bags and don't be late. It seems the : space people are now furnishing us with a space craft and for that I : am thankful. Oh yes while we've been talking about rockss before I reminded : me that in the past I communicated with Richard Shaver of the The Shaver : Mystery. He sent me one of his rock. You talk about rocks that was a : rock. : John Winston. If I may quote one of George Carlin's lines in an otherwise forgettable movie: "Man, the sixties were good to _you_." -- Grant Edwards |Yow! This MUST be a good Rosemount Inc. |party -- My RIB CAGE is being |painfully pressed up against grante@aquarius.rosemount.com |someone's MARTINI!! Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:11183 alt.alien.visitors:8396 sci.skeptic:28840 Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!caen!sdd.hp.com!apollo.hp.com!netnews From: nelson_p@apollo.hp.com (Peter Nelson) Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day Sender: usenet@apollo.hp.com (Usenet News) Message-ID: Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 17:19:18 GMT References: <12AUG199217320715@apsicc.aps.edu> <168428468.CCENS03@USLVM.USL.EDU> Nntp-Posting-Host: c.ch.apollo.hp.com Organization: Hewlett-Packard Corporation, Chelmsford, MA Lines: 15 John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes: > > Dear Rock Watchers: Dr. Demonde has found that rocks from around the globe > breathe, but just one inhalation can take anywhere from three days to > two weeks. They have also found that rocks also show signs of brain > activity. Perhaps the good doctor can be induced to attach his instruments to your head and see if you have any sign of brain activity. ---peter Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!decwrl!pa.dec.com!nntpd2.cxo.dec.com!nntpd.lkg.dec.com!engage.pko.dec.com!verga.enet.dec.com!stanley From: stanley@verga.enet.dec.com (My name is...) Subject: Re: Disinformation Agents at Work? Message-ID: <1992Aug13.162403.19787@engage.pko.dec.com> Sender: newsdaemon@engage.pko.dec.com (USENET News Daemon) Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 17:19:17 GMT Lines: 22 In article , sheaffer@netcom.com (Robert Sheaffer) writes... >>In article <1992Aug10.171429.16729@engage.pko.dec.com> >>stanley@verga.enet.dec.com writes: >>> >>>In article , sheaffer@netcom.com >>>(Robert Sheaffer) writes... >>>> >>>>No, if anybody is CIA here, it *must* be me. >>> >>>I agree, Robert... I've thought it was you for quite awhile now. >>> >>>Can you give us solid proof that you are not working for the CIA? > >> ^^^ > Why, yes. I was just given a document by the Agency this morning > proving that I do *not* work for them. Aha... I suspected as much... it's a CIA code encryption. :-) You're with the service... admit it or risk losing your pension.. :-) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!decwrl!pa.dec.com!nntpd2.cxo.dec.com!nntpd.lkg.dec.com!engage.pko.dec.com!verga.enet.dec.com!stanley From: stanley@verga.enet.dec.com (My name is...) Subject: Re: Disinformation Agents at Work? Message-ID: <1992Aug13.162825.19965@engage.pko.dec.com> Sender: newsdaemon@engage.pko.dec.com (USENET News Daemon) Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 17:23:42 GMT Lines: 47 In article , jdr@starflight.Corp.Sun.COM (Jon Roland) writes... >More interesting than wondering whether contributors to this group are part of >a government or ET disinformation campaign is to speculate on what the possible >motives for such a campaign might be. Persons inclined to be suspicious of the >good intentions of government people might attribute such a campaign to: I find it interesting too. :-) >1) Expectation on the part of the power elite that disclosure of alien visitation >will jeopardize their positions, so that they need to cover it up to protect >their interests; or > >2) Expectation on the part of a fascist cabal that if they are allowed to work >in secret, they can obtain alien technology that they can use to gain world >power. > >However, those who are more inclined to think government types are mostly nice >guys most of the time might think the motives are: > >3) Concern that premature disclosure would upset and demoralize people and >destabilize society, disturb economic and technical progress, and generally >make things worse for everybody; or > >4) Concern that we are an alien experiment and that if we find out we are and >begin behaving differently as a result of that knowledge, we will lose our >value as scientific subjects and be terminated. > >Better ignorant and alive than enlightened and dead? Could explain a few things. >It least it could be the cover story used to motivate government agents. > >It is also interesting to ask why government or ET agents bother trying to >perpetrate a coverup that is important enough to kill for while at the same >time trying to avoid using lethal methods. What is holding them back? Could it >be that no one knows who all the players are in this game, or what the rules >are, or who is really making the rules? Yes.. it could be that indeed. >The next time you encounter someone you suspect of being a disinformation >agent, you might ask him if he *really* knows who he is working for, or what >his mission *really* is. Whether human or ET, he can't be entirely sure of >anything, and in that we may have some common ground. > But that's the way The Games are played. :-) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!decwrl!pa.dec.com!nntpd2.cxo.dec.com!nntpd.lkg.dec.com!engage.pko.dec.com!verga.enet.dec.com!stanley From: stanley@verga.enet.dec.com (My name is...) Subject: Re: crop circles Message-ID: <1992Aug13.162923.20159@engage.pko.dec.com> Sender: newsdaemon@engage.pko.dec.com (USENET News Daemon) Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 17:26:58 GMT Lines: 10 In article <1992Aug12.043007.16792@news.unomaha.edu>, jcitro3@cwis.unomaha.edu (Joe Citro III) writes... >I am particularly enjoying the "crop circle" on the famous LITE beer >commercial :) > > Joseph A. Citro III > Me too :-)... that's my favorite advertisement. Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!decwrl!pa.dec.com!nntpd2.cxo.dec.com!nntpd.lkg.dec.com!engage.pko.dec.com!verga.enet.dec.com!stanley From: stanley@verga.enet.dec.com (My name is...) Subject: Re: Crop Circles? Message-ID: <1992Aug13.163641.20572@engage.pko.dec.com> Sender: newsdaemon@engage.pko.dec.com (USENET News Daemon) Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 17:33:06 GMT Lines: 15 In article <1992Aug12.112650.25645@dartvax.dartmouth.edu>, Rickie.A.Slater@dartmouth.edu (Rickie A. Slater) writes... > >>Why land in the middle of crops, making a stange formation that will get >people suspicious when you could easily land in some other place that would >leave no such "evidence." Because you want to leave evidence... that's the whole point. > >If you had work to do in a place where no one could overpower or >influence you would you really care what kind of impression you made, >on the planet surface or on the inhabitants lives? Yes... I would. Xref: icaen alt.alien.visitors:8401 alt.conspiracy:17694 alt.activism:31053 sci.skeptic:28847 misc.headlines:23518 alt.politics.bush:2404 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!dtix!darwin.sura.net!mips!sdd.hp.com!caen!batcomputer!genie!ncgia!mars.caps.maine.edu!dartvax!fluent!fluent!bd From: bd@fluent@dartmouth.EDU (Brice Dowaliby) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy,alt.activism,sci.skeptic,misc.headlines,alt.politics.bush Subject: Re: guns and criminals Message-ID: Date: 13 Aug 92 17:15:04 GMT References: <1992Aug4.015333.21023@s1.gov> <1992Aug4.224146.15920@adobe.com> Sender: bd@fluent@dartmouth.EDU (Brice Dowaliby) Reply-To: bd%fluent@dartmouth.EDU Organization: Fluent Inc., Lebanon NH Lines: 9 In-Reply-To: exukjb@exu.ericsson.se's message of 10 Aug 92 14:07:23 GMT exukjb@exu.ericsson.se (ken bell) writes: >I think we need an alt.right.on.target room to discuss gun control *BTW). What's wrong with talk.poiltics.guns? -- Brice Dowaliby | I don't speak for them. (bd%fluent@dartmouth.edu) | They don't speak for me. Xref: icaen alt.alien.visitors:8402 alt.conspiracy:17695 alt.activism:31054 sci.skeptic:28850 misc.headlines:23519 Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy,alt.activism,sci.skeptic,misc.headlines,alt.politics.bush.talk.politics.guns Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!cis.ohio-state.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!rpi!newsserver.pixel.kodak.com!keps.kodak.com!dirtydog.ima.isc.com!laidbak!tellab5!vpnet!uumeme!drac From: drac@uumeme.chi.il.us (Bruce Maynard) Subject: Re: A racist argument against handgun control legislation. Organization: UUMEME Public Access UNIX Date: Wed, 12 Aug 92 02:05:09 GMT Message-ID: <1992Aug12.020509.2162@uumeme.chi.il.us> References: <1992Aug2.162931.26755@mcshub.dcss.mcmaster.ca> <1992Aug4.124014.15095@lmpsbbs.comm.mot.com> <1992Aug4.190703.11666@mcshub.dcss.mcmaster.ca> Lines: 10 With respect to the idea of "academics laughing at the idea of cumpulsory military service", may I remind you that, in almost every "civilized" nation, it's ALWAYS been so, and never moreso than the few years before and leading up-to a major war? One of the reasons Germany DIDN'T invade Switzerland (in Goering's own terms) was that the Swiss were armed to the point that "it would have been more trouble to take it, mountains and armed civilians and such, than the place was worth" (and yes, they DID place a high value on possession of Switzerland, just that it would have been EXTREMELY difficult to take it, and once having taken it, to HOLD it...) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!cleveland.Freenet.Edu!cc203 From: cc203@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (David R. Stepien) Subject: Re: Crop Circles? Message-ID: <1992Aug13.191152.2719@usenet.ins.cwru.edu> Sender: news@usenet.ins.cwru.edu Nntp-Posting-Host: slc4.ins.cwru.edu Reply-To: stepiend@rcwcl1.dnet.bp.com (David R. Stepien) Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio, (USA) Date: Thu, 13 Aug 92 19:11:52 GMT Lines: 25 arpowell@nyx.cs.du.edu (Aimee Powell) writes: > As I understand it, the Science News article took great care to call > the circles hoaxes, and to point out that some people had already > come forward saying that they had made some of the circles. > > I wouldn't really call that article a good reference, if one were > looking for support of the "aliens are coming" theory. True, the article does "assume" the circles are hoaxes, and some certainly are. Nevertheless, the information on the various geometrical proofs and ratios found in the circle designs is discussed in detail, and is very interesting no matter what your theory as to their origin may be (mine is distinctly non-human). These strange geometries need to be considered along with other evidence not discussed in the Science News article, such as the unbroken stalks of "true" circles (impossible to reproduce by trampling.) Here's another interesting thing from the Crop Circle Communique video: Some German students managed to videotape a small white disk flying through a crop formation in the middle of the day, then ascending into the air and disappearing. This is clearly visible in the video. Once again, no one can explain it. Xref: icaen alt.alien.visitors:8404 alt.politics.kibo:77 Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.politics.kibo Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!decwrl!pa.dec.com!nntpd2.cxo.dec.com!nntpd.lkg.dec.com!ryn.mro4.dec.com!est.enet.dec.com!randolph From: randolph@est.enet.dec.com (Tom Randolph) Subject: Re: Gary Stollman For President... Message-ID: <1992Aug13.163903.22454@ryn.mro4.dec.com> Sender: news@ryn.mro4.dec.com (USENET News System) Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation References: <92225.045414ROWHC@CUNYVM.BITNET> Date: 13 AUG 92 12:32:44 Lines: 13 In article , kibo@world.std.com (James "Kibo" Parry) writes... >[alt.alien.visitors] >Gary, if you'd like to help take back control from the government, I'm >running for president (see alt.politics.kibo.) Would you like to be my >running mate? (I asked Mike Jittlov, but he seems to be busy. You're >every bit as energetic, and I see energy as the prime quality necessary >to properly confuse the media.) > > -- Kibo No,No,No! John_-_Winston for VP!!! -Tom R. randolph@est.enet.dec.com Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!usc!rpi!uwm.edu!zazen!doug.cae.wisc.edu!umn.edu!lynx!carina.unm.edu!cary From: cary@carina.unm.edu (Ithlial the Archer) Subject: Re: Ley Lines Message-ID: <625mcsm@lynx.unm.edu> Date: Thu, 13 Aug 92 19:35:21 GMT Organization: University of New Mexico, Albuquerque References: <63863@cup.portal.com> <1992Aug12.165518.11656@ryn.mro4.dec.com> <63914@cup.portal.com> Lines: 38 In article <63914@cup.portal.com> John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes: >Dear Tom: Your right the earth could have grown by 800 or 852 miles. >It think it hasn't grown that much. The earth should live to an age of >72.9 trillion years. This information came from T. Lobsang Rampa while >he was talking to a person on another planet. The dust fact did come >from a conventional Astronomer. Planets are usually destroyed as part of >a super nova and then they start over again as part of something else. Not by a long shot John, the majority of stars are not massive enough to become supernovae. All will however become red giants, this _will_ vaporize the innermost planets in a system, but the outer planets will be unaffected. >Now let me give you another fact. The Earth's resonate frequency is 8.3 >cycles per second (which varies a little due to certain factors). I wear >a watch that has a transmitter in it that puts out a wave of energy at >about the same frequency as the Earth resonant frequency. This shields >me from ELF (extremely low frequency) radiation. John Winston. Why would one worry about natural radiation below the optical band? There are no natural sources (on the Earth) of radiation in this energy range intense enough for your body to be effected. All the man made sources I can think of, microwaves, radio station, TV stations et cetera are harmless. If your going to worry about natural sources of radiation I'd think UV from the sun should rank pretty high. The key here is low frequency=low energy. Radiation in this range is not ionizing, which is what makes it dangerous. BTW what is the reference for this ELF radiation from the Earth? Ithlial My opinions, mine, mine, mine! To me, boxing is like ballet, except there's no music, no choreography, and the dancers hit eachother. Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!bcstec!kuryakin From: kuryakin@bcstec.ca.boeing.com (Rick Pavek) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Crop Circles? Message-ID: <3293@bcstec.ca.boeing.com> Date: 13 Aug 92 17:56:04 GMT References: <1992Aug12.100452.26123@cco.caltech.edu> <3276@bcstec.ca.boeing.com> <1992Aug13.035027.4847@cco.caltech.edu> Organization: Boeing Lines: 75 In article <1992Aug13.035027.4847@cco.caltech.edu> keith@cco.caltech.edu (Keith Allan Schneider) writes: >>Can you prove that the ALL of the circles WERE created by humankind? >You're the one saying they are created by aliens. So, just show me one >instance in which this is true, and I will believe you. So you can't. >>If they do exist, I'm not willing to make any presumptions about them at all. >Why not? If they exist, and if we do not know about them, then this must >be by design. You can't accidently hide... I won't make any presumptions on them until I meet one. If there is such an animal. (Hmmm.. would they BE animal? Or do we invent a new class?) >You think that we would pose a theat to a race that travelled from another >star system? A .50 Calibre slug thrower pushes a slug at quite a few meters/sec. We have lasers (HELTADS, for example) that can melt the wings off airplanes. We have caustic, biological and nerve toxins that can kill you before you know what happened. And look at your average politician... I wouldn't turn MY back on one... Heck YES, we pose a threat. Even if we miss when we shoot, we'd still be likely to shoot. We have people who LIKE to shoot. >Oh, so they intentionally leave graffiti behind just to mess with our minds? Graffiti yes. Intentionally yes. Why? Heck, I don't know. >Oh? You think that KGB agents are going to be fooled by UFO stories? Why >would the governement want to trick the public? They could just easily >say, "Oh, that is a top secret craft we are developing. Sorry, we can't >tell you any more," and no one would blink an eye. Yeah. Riiiight. Besides, KGB is disbanded organization. Is no more KGB. >If you were a true skeptic, you would believe neither the hoaxster or the >alien explanations. Can't beat this point to death, it seems. My contention is not "There are aliens making crop circles" but rather "I suspect that some, or a majority of, the crop circles were made by means other than human intention". >If I go out in a field and destroy someone's crops, you wouldn't find me >bragging about it. Besides, it I admitted to it, then it wouldn't be any >more fun. So you DO make crop circles... >So you think that there is going to be an alien invasion? Nope, didn't say that one. Just said "If there is one, I want to hear how you explain it". Now one of my contentions is that people on the net are trying to debunk the phenomena by debunking the USENET messages. Let's try a different tack. According to _Circular Evidence_ by Pat Delgado & Colin Andrews, Phanes Press 1989 (yep, pre hoaxters) crop circles have been around since the 1950's in Australia. The hoaxters used a technique known to break the stalks as the stalks don't bend. Yet the stalks are quite bent, permanently so. They continue to grow that way. They don't straighten, and they lie in regular patterns. There are a variety of patterns, and (that's the patterns in the cereal, NOT the shape of the circle...) a variety of theories are examined. If you care to examine the book, and read it, you'll have a lot more information. If you base your knowledge on what you read on the net, or in newspapers (or on just one book...) then you're biased. If you read the book, drop me a note and we'll pick this discussion up where we left off... 's been fun. Rick -- Rick Pavek | Never ask a droid to outdo its program. kuryakin@bcstec.boeing.com | AppleLink: kuryakin | It wastes your time r.pavek1@GENIE | and annoys the droid. Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!centerline!noc.near.net!chaos!random.ccs.northeastern.edu!rogue From: rogue@ccs.northeastern.edu (Free Radical) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Ley Lines Message-ID: <1992Aug13.192914.6438@random.ccs.northeastern.edu> Date: 13 Aug 92 19:29:14 GMT References: <63863@cup.portal.com> <1992Aug12.165518.11656@ryn.mro4.dec.com> <63914@cup.portal.com> Sender: news@random.ccs.northeastern.edu Organization: Comp. Sci. @ NU Lines: 8 In article <63914@cup.portal.com> John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes: [...] >The dust fact did come from a conventional Astronomer. John, I am shocked at your behavior. Actually using a fact that came from a reputable source! I am stunned. RA Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:11185 alt.alien.visitors:8408 sci.skeptic:28856 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!mcsun!corton!babbage!cosmos.imag.fr!phs From: phs@imag.fr (Philippe Schnoebelen) Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Subject: Living rocks Message-ID: <1992Aug13.164555.21373@imag.fr> Date: 13 Aug 92 16:45:55 GMT References: <1992Jun5.011013.1412@beaver.cs.washington.edu> <63714@cup.portal.com> <63758@cup.portal.com> Sender: news@imag.fr Organization: Institut Imag, Grenoble, France Lines: 15 Nntp-Posting-Host: cassiopee In article <63758@cup.portal.com> John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes: >Dr. /demonde, a biologist in Lyon, France >left a rock on top of his electrocardiograph and when he came back after >being on vacation he saw that the rock had inpressed pulses on the machine. >It was found that rocks breathe, but only one inhilation every three days >to two weeks. [rest deleted] I live not far from Lyon and never heard/read about this story. But I heard it about a Chinese physician (with a different name :-) What is your source for this ?? --Philippe Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sdd.hp.com!caen!uvaarpa!concert!rock!taco!hsdndev!dartvax!Rickie.A.Slater From: Rickie.A.Slater@dartmouth.edu (Rickie A. Slater) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Crop Circles? Message-ID: <1992Aug13.172314.4356@dartvax.dartmouth.edu> Date: 13 Aug 92 17:23:14 GMT References: <1992Aug12.112650.25645@dartvax.dartmouth.edu> <85988@netnews.upenn.edu> Sender: news@dartvax.dartmouth.edu (The News Manager) Organization: Dartmouth College, Hanover, NH Lines: 12 jmv@grip.cis.upenn.edu (Jean-Marc Vezien) writes: >YES, DEFINITLY YES. I think the "Prime Directive" argument of Star Trek >could apply to aliens as well. Besides, if the aliens really didn't care, >they would land randomly. Too bad they never land in center city. JM, Please explain the pattern to the alien landings to me because I fail to see one. And where is center city? How do you know they didn't land there? Do you believe that every ship in the sky is seen? Rick Slater (not to be confused with Pavek) Xref: icaen alt.alien.visitors:8410 alt.politics.kibo:79 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!olivea!sgigate!odin!mips!darwin.sura.net!jvnc.net!netnews.upenn.edu!widener!iggy.GW.Vitalink.COM!pacbell.com!decwrl!world!kibo From: kibo@world.std.com (James "Kibo" Parry) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.politics.kibo Subject: Re: Gary Stollman For President... Message-ID: Date: 13 Aug 92 20:00:49 GMT References: <92225.045414ROWHC@CUNYVM.BITNET> Organization: Between a rock and a type specimen sheet, Boston. Lines: 38 Gary Stollman wrote: >kibo@world.std.com (James "Kibo" Parry) writes: > >>Gary, if you'd like to help take back control from the government, I'm >>running for president (see alt.politics.kibo.) Would you like to be my >>running mate? > >Thanks, but I am NOT sure people would have a very positive view of me...In Well, heck, people don't have a positive view of me either. In fact, some would go so far as to say I'm a weenie. Of course, I'm not just an ordinary weenie. >fact, we might need to run on an "Insanity" Platform, that is, the other guys >are MORE insane than WE are...If you feel this is ok, let me know before I >bring the present government to its knees... Currently my camapign has no platform. Or rather, my platform is that politicians with platforms are bad. I also plan to ban roman numerals, and to shift our nation's economy towards the main national product being bumper stickers saying how great I am. Oh, and also, I will declare that Japan does not exist. After all, I'll be able to do that, because I'll be President, the most powerful man in the world except for Johnny Carson and Jack Nicholson. I don't know how these ideas fit in with your personal philosophy. If you are too sane to join in my crusade to destroy the socioeconomic framework of our culture and replace it with a giant amusement park run by Kibo, or if you just think I am a major bozo, you can always run for President yourself. (After all, you seem to have some support already.) However, this might lead to the two of us running against each other. If this happens, I promise you that I will concede gracefully if you win come election day. Anyway, let me know if you'd like to be No. 2 on my ticket. If you agree that this country needs an enema, hop aboard. -- K. Xref: icaen alt.alien.visitors:8411 alt.conspiracy:17698 alt.activism:31064 sci.skeptic:28857 misc.headlines:23524 Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy,alt.activism,sci.skeptic,misc.headlines,alt.po Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!van-bc!eslvcr!ted From: ted@eslvcr.wimsey.bc.ca (Ted Powell) Subject: Re: guns and criminals Message-ID: <1992Aug13.194058.13319@eslvcr.wimsey.bc.ca> Followup-To: poster Summary: "Followup-To" advocacy Organization: Entropy Limited, Vancouver Canada References: <5RiePB4w164w@incam.new-orleans.la.us> Date: Thu, 13 Aug 92 19:40:58 GMT Lines: 21 In article <5RiePB4w164w@incam.new-orleans.la.us> rj@incam.new-orleans.la.us (Ray Jones) writes: >[...] >When you reply to this message, how about NOT CROSS-POSTING to the >"alt.alien.visitors" newsgroup? I am sure many of you have different >software, but I am sure [...etc, etc...] I note that you have posted more than one article in this vein. How about doing _your_ part by adding a Followup-To: line, specifying the newsgroups you consider appropriate, to your article headers? All that should be required of your software is the ability to add an arbitrary line to the header before you post your article. (My software includes such a line automatically, and you'll note that I have specified _no_ newsgroups, inasmuch as any responses to this article are unlikely to have much to do with anything on the Newsgroups: line.) Inclusion of a proper Followup-To: line means that responses go where you suggest _by default_, without requiring special action on the part of the responder. I commend it to your attention. -- ted@eslvcr.wimsey.bc.ca {ubc-cs,uunet}!van-bc!eslvcr!ted (Ted Powell) Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!darwin.sura.net!jvnc.net!yale.edu!qt.cs.utexas.edu!news.Brown.EDU!noc.near.net!chaos!random.ccs.northeastern.edu!rogue From: rogue@ccs.northeastern.edu (Free Radical) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Ley Lines Message-ID: <1992Aug13.193243.6520@random.ccs.northeastern.edu> Date: 13 Aug 92 19:32:43 GMT References: <63863@cup.portal.com> <1992Aug12.165518.11656@ryn.mro4.dec.com> <63914@cup.portal.com> Sender: news@random.ccs.northeastern.edu Organization: Comp. Sci. @ NU Lines: 8 In article <63914@cup.portal.com> John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes: [...] >The dust fact did come from a conventional Astronomer. John, I am shocked at your behavior. Actually using a reputable source is just not like you. You should be ashamed of yourself. RA Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!haven.umd.edu!darwin.sura.net!wupost!waikato.ac.nz!aukuni.ac.nz!kcbbs!kc Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: New LITE Beer Commercial with aliens Message-ID: <32150.226927438@kcbbs.gen.nz> From: Robert_Sutton@kcbbs.gen.nz (Robert Sutton) Date: 14 Aug 92 08:55:50 GMT References: Organization: Kappa Crucis Unix BBS, Auckland, New Zealand Lines: 22 ceel@ra.msstate.edu(Charles Evans) 10 Aug 1992 04:11:24GMT types-- >I saw a semi-shocking commercial.Lite Beer,has a commercial Alas that brand doesn't advertise here in NZ on TV at least where booz advertising on the tube has only fairly recently been allowed but maybe in the cinema after a Speilberg or such.Will have to hope for some luck or such maybe a poster will be made up. If it's media desentisizing what's the betting the add agencies will wont their cut. Anyway wouldn't it be a bit risky in case the aliens decided to take action against such blatant plagirizing?.As I oft depress........ *********************** ARE ETOI SPACESHIPS SHY OR ARE THEY JUST WAITING TO SEAL THE ROYALTY DEAL? ************************** Anyway what if their not even sure if their real?. Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!haven.umd.edu!darwin.sura.net!wupost!waikato.ac.nz!aukuni.ac.nz!kcbbs!kc Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Moon Activities?y Message-ID: <35063.226927623@kcbbs.gen.nz> From: Robert_Sutton@kcbbs.gen.nz (Robert Sutton) Date: 14 Aug 92 09:44:23 GMT References: <1992Aug10.143419.24967@ryn.mro4.dec.com> Organization: Kappa Crucis Unix BBS, Auckland, New Zealand Lines: 19 randolph@est.enet.dec.com(Tom Randolph) 10 AUG 92 10:31:28GMT types... >It's widely believed that the monks did in fact witness a large meteor >impacting the moon.Is that so unbelievable?.I'll post references if >you like. Well it pretty much doesexpand the horizon of my boggle threshold as I wonder if the Apollo LEVAs wore those suits because the air was toxic to humans.Maybe it was a kind of Total Recall in reverse. Actually I wonder if it's only a meteorite if it hits Earth or will any solid thing do? Maybe an Asterite. *********************** ARE ETOI SPACESHIPS SHY OR ARE THEY JUST WAITING TO SEAL THE ROYALTY DEAL? ******************************** Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!cs.utexas.edu!wupost!waikato.ac.nz!aukuni.ac.nz!kcbbs!kc Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: I AM A ROCK?. Message-ID: <36183.226927694@kcbbs.gen.nz> From: Robert_Sutton@kcbbs.gen.nz (Robert Sutton) Date: 14 Aug 92 10:03:03 GMT References: <1992Aug10.161733.27784@ryn.mro4.dec.com> Organization: Kappa Crucis Unix BBS, Auckland, New Zealand Lines: 13 randolph@est.enet.dec.com(Tom Randolph) types........ >So how come the rock I have as a paperweight on my shelf here has never >moved an inch in the 6 months it's been there?maybe it died cuz I didn't >feed it. Or maybe it was being recalcitrint. ********************************* ARE ETOI SPACESHIPS SHY OR ARE THEY JUST WAITING TO SEAL THE ROYALTY DEAL? *********************************** Xref: icaen alt.alien.visitors:8416 alt.conspiracy:17701 alt.activism:31069 sci.skeptic:28863 misc.headlines:23527 talk.politics.guns:37938 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!gatech!utkcs2!utkvm1.utk.edu!PA146008 From: PA146008@utkvm1.utk.edu (David Veal) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy,alt.activism,sci.skeptic,misc.headlines,talk.politics.guns Subject: Re: UFO "October Surprise" and USA TAKEOVER?! Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 23:32:33 GMT Organization: University of Tennessee Division of Continuing Education Lines: 42 Message-ID: References: <1992Aug2.060950.29308@cbnewse.cb.att.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: leviathan.ce.utk.edu In article otto@tukki.jyu.fi (Otto J. Makela) writes: > In article <1992Aug6.143155.25460@mcshub.dcss.mcmaster.ca> bunker@physun. physics.mcmaster.ca (Alex Bunker) writes:> >In article <8B91oB1w165w@ bluemoon.rn.com> garys@bluemoon.rn.com (Gary Stollman) writes:> [gun comments from Gary's clone]> >In waht way are Canadians Germans UKers and Frenchman less "free"> >than americans. > > To start with, they are not free to carry guns. In most places in the U.S. people are not "free to carry guns," either. > >Nor are we free to drive down the freeway in the wrong direction. >It's all the matter of what is percieved as too dangerous to be allowed. There are a couple of responses to this. One is that the mere posession of a gun does not put anyone at grave, immediate risk, while driving down the wrong side of a crowded highway most certainly does. The other is that highways are public property, and the government does have certain lattitude in making rules to be followed there. I may drive whichever way I please on my own property, and the government may not stop me. The same should apply to guns. > >I've never felt the need to carry a gun (even though I've been in some pretty >tight spots), and I'm glad I live in a society where I don't have to. > >The fact that yearly much more people in the United States get killed by >guns than in Europe of course has nothing to do with gun control, right ? In the first place, it is not enough to simply show that *gun related* deaths have fallen, if homicides are just continued with other weapons. Second, most of Europe has had low crime rates of *all* sorts predating their gun control laws. =========================================================================== |David Veal PA146008@utkvm1.utk.edu University of Tennessee | | Division of Continuing Education | =========================================================================== Xref: icaen alt.alien.visitors:8417 sci.skeptic:28864 alt.paranormal:5626 Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic,alt.paranormal Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!cs.utexas.edu!sun-barr!ames!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!usc!rpi!sarah!newserve!bingsuns!vu0208 From: vu0208@bingsuns.cc.binghamton.edu (!) Subject: Re: physical evidence Message-ID: <1992Aug13.234200.19930@newserve.cc.binghamton.edu> Sender: usenet@newserve.cc.binghamton.edu (Mr News) Nntp-Posting-Host: bingsuns.cc.binghamton.edu Organization: State University of New York at Binghamton References: <1992Aug11.223749.17777@ims.com> Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 23:42:00 GMT Lines: 33 In article In article <1992Aug9.015509.12070@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu gburton@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Garland O Burton) writes: >> >> there are folks whom i tell of the abduction/eti/ufo phenom... >> they say "show us the physical evidence." >> can anyone suggest any? >> capture an alien. >Any one capable of building an interstellar craft will be able to build other >smaller artifacts that are clearly beyond our ability to make. For instance a >lap top computer given to an abductee in 1955 would have been very credible >physical evidence. Now of course you will have to come up with something fancier >than a lap top computer. Wow... you are proving my threory!! that some people among us are aliens who have been able to make the laptops and all those tiny chips! BTW, there was a movie a while ago "Intruders" in which a sensor-type material was implanted in the nose of one of the female abductees, which was surgically taken out and found by the doctors as of alien origin...later it was told in the movie that this implant had itself disintigrated in the lab and vanished!!! :( You may ask that doctor (friends of Budd Hopkins) that if he did any analysis and kept the record of it. I guess not. Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!wupost!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!agate!rsoft!mindlink!a3917 From: Steve_MacDonald@mindlink.bc.ca (Steve MacDonald) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: A racist argument against handgun control legislation. Message-ID: <14277@mindlink.bc.ca> Date: 14 Aug 92 00:53:07 GMT Organization: MIND LINK! - British Columbia, Canada Distribution: world Lines: 15 Here is a response to the argument that compulsory military service some how saved Switerland from Nazi invasion. I think that you are right in saying that Switerlands large militia detered the Nazis from walking in like they did in Austria. Only to a point however. If the Nazis really needed Switerland then they would have attacked and taken it over. Switerland was not hostile and had no strategic value. Also the Swiss were considered to be part of the Master Race. If the country was populated by Jews or Slavs then the Nazis would have leveled it without a doubt. Also, Russia had compulsory service and that didn't stop them from getting 20 million of their people wiped out. I know a girl from Switzerland and she says that most people there think the whole Milita thing is a big joke. They call it 'Boyscouts for men.' Besides it doesn't really have to do with individuals owning handguns bye Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!dtix!darwin.sura.net!jvnc.net!netnews.upenn.edu!halibut.cis.upenn.edu!jmv From: jmv@halibut.cis.upenn.edu (Jean-Marc Vezien) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Sighting in New Brunswick, Canada Message-ID: <86137@netnews.upenn.edu> Date: 13 Aug 92 22:14:48 GMT References: <1992Aug12.184845.6939@ac.dal.ca> <1992Aug13.152848.10569@ccu.umanitoba.ca> Sender: news@netnews.upenn.edu Organization: GRASP Lab Lines: 16 Nntp-Posting-Host: halibut.cis.upenn.edu In article <1992Aug13.152848.10569@ccu.umanitoba.ca>, rutkows@ccu.umanitoba.ca (Chris Rutkowski) writes: [...] > In other countries, try GEPAN, SOBEPS, BUFORA, NUFON, or whoever. But > report the sightings to someone! Statistically, even UFOs that turn > out to be IFOs are useful as data. > Just a precision, GEPAN was the (government subsidized) UFO report organization in France. It was dismanteled recently, because of lack of evidences of UFOS (official explanation. Personally, I think the police was tired to go and investigate UFO sightings too often). JM. Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!dtix!darwin.sura.net!jvnc.net!netnews.upenn.edu!halibut.cis.upenn.edu!jmv From: jmv@halibut.cis.upenn.edu (Jean-Marc Vezien) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Crop Circles? Message-ID: <86140@netnews.upenn.edu> Date: 13 Aug 92 22:26:05 GMT References: <1992Aug13.172314.4356@dartvax.dartmouth.edu> Sender: news@netnews.upenn.edu Organization: GRASP Lab Lines: 29 Nntp-Posting-Host: halibut.cis.upenn.edu In article <1992Aug13.172314.4356@dartvax.dartmouth.edu>, Rickie.A.Slater@dartmouth.edu (Rickie A. Slater) writes: > jmv@grip.cis.upenn.edu (Jean-Marc Vezien) writes: > > > >YES, DEFINITLY YES. I think the "Prime Directive" argument of Star Trek >could apply to aliens as well. Besides, if the aliens really didn't care, >they would land randomly. Too bad they never land in center city. > > JM, > Please explain the pattern to the alien landings to me because I fail > to see one. And where is center city? How do you know they didn't land > there? > Do you believe that every ship in the sky is seen? Rick, The pattern of UFO landing seems pretty clear to me: 1) locate crop, away from any major people concentration, but not to far away so that people can discover your tracks, 2) land And I know they didn't land near any major city in this world. Could any crop specialist compile a list of crop circle locations ? I'll bet they are not randomly located... US and England seem to attract them like magnets. JM. Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:11189 alt.alien.visitors:8421 sci.skeptic:28870 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!olivea!apple!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day Message-ID: <63994@cup.portal.com> Date: 14 Aug 92 02:16:39 GMT References: <1992Jun5.011013.1412@beaver.cs.washington.edu> <63714@cup.portal.com> Organization: The Portal System (TM) Lines: 11 To Whom It May Concern: I have a little time so here I go answering somege questions. Someone pointed out that in my mentioning nine stars in a certain cluster I only mentioned 6. Thanks for pointing that out. The unmentioned stars are Merope, Maria and Taygete. The information came from conventional scientist not from the space people. Aother person said that he was not aware of any writing that Richard Shaver did about rocks. My communication with Mr. Shaver was by mail and he sent me more than one of his rocks and I gave them away. These rocks had paintings on them and in them. They would have a painting of a mermaid or merman swimming along in the ocean with a porpoise. These rocks had pictures with smaller pictures making up the larger picture.------- JW. Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:11191 alt.alien.visitors:8422 sci.skeptic:28871 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day Message-ID: <63995@cup.portal.com> Date: Thu, 13 Aug 92 19:24:13 PDT Organization: The Portal System (TM) References: <1992Jun5.011013.1412@beaver.cs.washington.edu> <63714@cup.portal.com> <63758@cup.portal.com> Lines: 9 ---The eye of the mermaid would sometimes be made of different pictures and those pictures would have pictures in them until you would look at the pictures with up to 50 power magnification. The rock then could be broken away in layers and the pictures could be looked at. Richard thought that the rocks were made to be looked at on a sort of viewer of which he didn't have. There is a rumor that in a city in the NE part of the US their is a cobblestone street that is built out of these type stones with the information still on them. John Winston. Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Ley Lines Message-ID: <63996@cup.portal.com> Date: Thu, 13 Aug 92 19:33:35 PDT Organization: The Portal System (TM) References: <63863@cup.portal.com> <1992Aug12.165518.11656@ryn.mro4.dec.com> <63914@cup.portal.com> <1992Aug13.193243.6520@random.ccs.northeastern.edu> Lines: 3 Dear Thinker: With these few rational thoughts you people are putting out, I'll just have to think about them for a while. I'm at a loss for words. John Winston. Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:11192 alt.alien.visitors:8424 sci.skeptic:28873 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!usc!sdd.hp.com!swrinde!ringer!djimenez From: djimenez@ringer.cs.utsa.edu (Daniel Jimenez) Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Subject: Re: Living rocks Message-ID: <1992Aug14.020211.16768@ringer.cs.utsa.edu> Date: 14 Aug 92 02:02:11 GMT References: <63714@cup.portal.com> <63758@cup.portal.com> <1992Aug13.164555.21373@imag.fr> Organization: University of Texas at San Antonio Lines: 21 In article <1992Aug13.164555.21373@imag.fr> phs@imag.fr (Philippe Schnoebelen) writes: >In article <63758@cup.portal.com> John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes: > >>Dr. /demonde, a biologist in Lyon, France >>left a rock on top of his electrocardiograph and when he came back after >>being on vacation he saw that the rock had inpressed pulses on the machine. >>It was found that rocks breathe, but only one inhilation every three days >>to two weeks. >[rest deleted] > >I live not far from Lyon and never heard/read about this story. But I heard >it about a Chinese physician (with a different name :-) > >What is your source for this ?? Actually, it is a well known fact that Chinese physicians breathe. Other Chinese professionals have also shown signs of respiration on occasion. -- Daniel Jimenez " " -- John Cage Xref: icaen alt.alien.visitors:8425 alt.conspiracy:17706 alt.activism:31079 sci.skeptic:28875 misc.headlines:23531 alt.politics.bush:2551 Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy,alt.activism,sci.skeptic,misc.headlines,alt.politics.bush Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!usc!rpi!newsserver.pixel.kodak.com!keps.kodak.com!dirtydog.ima.isc.com!laidbak!tellab5!vpnet!uumeme!drac From: drac@uumeme.chi.il.us (Bruce Maynard) Subject: Re: guns and criminals Organization: UUMEME Public Access UNIX Date: Thu, 13 Aug 92 06:10:49 GMT Message-ID: <1992Aug13.061049.5347@uumeme.chi.il.us> References: <1992Aug4.015333.21023@s1.gov> <1992Aug4.224146.15920@adobe.com> Lines: 6 Well, as far as defending WITHOUT my weapons, vs defending WITH 'em... I REFUSE to defend myself with a soup spoon while waiting 20 minutes for the police to arrivbe against an "invader", and a flatly refuse to abandon my home to same. I've already had to defend myself against ONE attack in my own living room (some hopped-up clown came crashing in thru my patio door waving a knife the size of a buick), and I've d*mned GLAQD I had a pistol within reasonable access... elsewise I'd probably not be here to post this (the clod was twice my size, and I ain't eggzackly small). Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!unislc!erc From: erc@unislc.uucp (Ed Carp) Subject: Re: Report on Phoenix Project X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL5 References: <139577.2A817124@paranet.FIDONET.ORG> Message-ID: <1992Aug14.043644.9900@unislc.uucp> Organization: Unisys Corporation SLC Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 04:36:44 GMT Lines: 44 sm (ParaNet.Information.Service@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG) wrote: : A few weeks ago, ParaNet received on-line copies of several : documents which purported to come from a previously unknown : organization called "The Phoenix Project". The project is : described in the documents as a "private, civilian, research : organization" which was "formed in 1952 to investigate and : correlate information" concerning UFOs and ETs. According to the : information contained in the documents, for a small price one can : receive printed copies of the project's reports, complete with : maps, magnetometer readings, and a host of other supporting : charts and diagrams which serve to make the whole endeavor look : scientific and legitimate. : ParaNet will keep you advised of our findings as they become : available. If you have any information about the Phoenix Project, : especially regarding its possible relationship with the Phoenix : Liberator or America West Publishers, please send it to Michael : Corbin by Internet mail to mcorbin@paranet.org; by Fidonet to : 1:104/422; by U.S. Mail to P.O. Box 172, Wheat Ridge, CO 80034- : 0172; or by phone at 303-431-8796. MY ex-roommate got this newspaper-looking-thingie in her mailbox today (apparantly by mistake) from some sort of organization calling itself "The Phoenix Liberator, Inc.". The address given was the same one as listed in the original post. The "Subscription Rates" column lists the following: "Subscription orders may be placed by mail to the above address or by phone to 1-800-800-5565. Subscription rates are: $20 for 13 issues (US) ..." The address listed "for more information" for a series called "The Phoenix Journals" is America West Publishers (claiming to be a Nevada corporation) P. O. Box 2208, Carson City, Nevada 87702. They even list a phone number: 1-800-729-4131. Another 800 number listed is 1-800-729-3141. FYI. I don't support these folks, nor do I support Don Showen, or anyone else claiming support for the Pleiades movement. It all sounds pretty silly to me, but what the hell do I know? :) -- Ed Carp, N7EKG erc@apple.com 801/538-0177 "This is the final task I will ever give you, and it goes on forever. Act happy, feel happy, be happy, without a reason in the world. Then you can love, and do what you will." -- Dan Millman, "Way Of The Peaceful Warrior" Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!decwrl!netcomsv!netcom.com!jeffp From: jeffp@netcom.com (Jeff Papineau) Subject: Re: Those Breakdancing Rocks. Message-ID: Date: Fri, 14 Aug 92 04:50:32 GMT Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest) References: Lines: 41 In article asm332@cix.compulink.co.uk writes: >In article <63840@cup.portal.com>, John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes: >>Dear Potential Rock Star Owners: The way Dr. Demonde proved that the > ****** >>rocks were moving was to put a time lapse camers on them and it was >>found that the rocks move very slowly (the fastest moved 7 inches >>in 14 weeks time) a sort of expanding and contracting motion as it >>hunched its way across the table. More to come later. > >So Dr Demonde claims to have used time lapse photography to record >these motions ? How do you know the effect was not produced by >stop-motion photography; have you seen the film ? You seem very >gullible if you are ready to believe rocks can move by themselves >on the basis of a roll of film. That's not proof. > >-Sean. > >Thanks for your little science lesson, Sean. I feel sorry for you young men, so quick to form your opions of reality in such short order... Little carbon copies all over the place. Well Prof. so and so sez... Actually, "higher sources" assure us that all matter does indeed have an intelligence of it's own; in its own way. But, I forgot, you guys are all omnipotent already, so I don't need to point that out. This is where the "intelligence" of crystals comes from. Yes, I used to poo-poo this myself. But after reading what about 15 different UFO contactee types have to say about the subject, I am begining to see that on a more subtle level than we are used to dealing with, such things are very likely indeed. Jeff- > >--- >asm332@cix.compulink.co.uk | warlock%spuddy@uknet.ac.uk >Wanted: UK catalogue numbers for Jefferson Airplane CDs Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!bcstec!kuryakin From: kuryakin@bcstec.ca.boeing.com (Rick Pavek) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Crop Circles? Message-ID: <3306@bcstec.ca.boeing.com> Date: 13 Aug 92 21:51:30 GMT References: <1992Aug13.141822.14638@usenet.ins.cwru.edu> <1992Aug13.150520.21049@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu> Organization: Boeing Lines: 46 In article <1992Aug13.150520.21049@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu> arpowell@nyx.cs.du.edu (Aimee Powell) writes: >As I understand it, the Science News article took great care to call >the circles hoaxes, and to point out that some people had already >come forward saying that they had made some of the circles. > >I wouldn't really call that article a good reference, if one were >looking for support of the "aliens are coming" theory. A citation is a citation is a citation... The only problem with this one is that the Science News is a rehash, kind of a Readers Digest of the Scientific publications, and no original research was done. I'm sure you could also find all manner of publications that say that the Reagan era was good for civil liberties, too. That wouldn't change anything... I don't want you to get the wrong idea about my comments... I'm not jumping on your citation because it doesn't agree with me... rather that I haven't actually claimed the aliens are coming, rather I'v tried to leave the door open to explanations other than human. I have no evidence the aliens are coming. What my opinion is has no bearing on this case. I can't prove there are aliens and I don't intend to. I'm simply stating that there is reason to doubt that humans with mechanical implements created the majority of the crop circles and that any explanation is only a theory. Even the two hoaxters (that were reported to have recanted their story) could be hoaxing their confession. Until someone can stand in the middle of one forming, with a camera, tape recorder or other instruments there will always be doubt. Heck, until the Leyden Jar and the Galvanometer scientists doubted there was such a radical thing as electricity!! I can't prove a negative any more than someone can prove the positive. I can't prove the aliens made any of the crop circles and no one can prove to the same level of certainty that humans created all of them. Sure, you can jump on the simple explanation and try to make it apply to all of the circles... any fool can do that... Rick :-) -- Rick Pavek | Never ask a droid to outdo its program. kuryakin@bcstec.boeing.com | AppleLink: kuryakin | It wastes your time r.pavek1@GENIE | and annoys the droid. Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!bcstec!kuryakin From: kuryakin@bcstec.ca.boeing.com (Rick Pavek) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Crop Circles? Message-ID: <3311@bcstec.ca.boeing.com> Date: 14 Aug 92 00:02:59 GMT References: <1992Aug12.112650.25645@dartvax.dartmouth.edu> <85988@netnews.upenn.edu> <1992Aug13.172314.4356@dartvax.dartmouth.edu> Organization: Boeing Lines: 12 In article <1992Aug13.172314.4356@dartvax.dartmouth.edu> Rickie.A.Slater@dartmouth.edu (Rickie A. Slater) writes: > >Rick Slater (not to be confused with Pavek) They've been doing that... haven't they? Thanks! Rick :-) -- Rick Pavek | Never ask a droid to outdo its program. kuryakin@bcstec.boeing.com | AppleLink: kuryakin | It wastes your time r.pavek1@GENIE | and annoys the droid. Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!usc!sdd.hp.com!think.com!hsdndev!dartvax!Rickie.A.Slater From: Rickie.A.Slater@dartmouth.edu (Rickie A. Slater) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Crop Circles? Message-ID: <1992Aug13.221257.22629@dartvax.dartmouth.edu> Date: 13 Aug 92 22:12:57 GMT References: <1992Aug13.163641.20572@engage.pko.dec.com> Sender: news@dartvax.dartmouth.edu (The News Manager) Organization: Dartmouth College, Hanover, NH Lines: 40 In article <1992Aug13.163641.20572@engage.pko.dec.com> stanley@verga.enet.dec.com (My name is...) writes: > In article <1992Aug12.112650.25645@dartvax.dartmouth.edu>, Rickie.A.Slater@dartmouth.edu (Rickie A. Slater) writes... > > > >>Why land in the middle of crops, making a stange formation that will get > >people suspicious when you could easily land in some other place that would > >leave no such "evidence." > > Because you want to leave evidence... that's the whole point. > /\ I didn't write this ||. I believe they don't care what evidence is left as long as it does not make for bad karma by being intentional, nonuseful destruction. || I did write this \/. > > > >If you had work to do in a place where no one could overpower or > >influence you would you really care what kind of impression you made, > >on the planet surface or on the inhabitants lives? > > Yes... I would. I expect that if you really do care about your affects on everything alive as much as you imply that you have been through a lot of different jobs and spent a lot of time out of work.If given the job to go to carry something to the boat dock that is accross a large lawn towards the lake do you contemplate what you are stepping on every step of the way? Maybe frogs, moles, earthworms, insects, plants and who knows what else. I believe when we are at work we pay little attention to anything outside of our work or the work does not get done right. You say you would care about the affects of your actions but when was the last time you said no to your boss or got so involved with things other than the job you were given that it interfered with the job getting done? If I am wrong let me know how to do what you do. BTW how long have you been a vegetarian? Rick S. Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sdd.hp.com!mips!decwrl!pa.dec.com!nntpd2.cxo.dec.com!acetek.enet.dec.com!timpson From: timpson@acetek.enet.dec.com () Subject: Re: Moon Activities?y Message-ID: <1992Aug14.130443.23583@nntpd2.cxo.dec.com> Lines: 33 Sender: usenet@nntpd2.cxo.dec.com (USENET News System) Reply-To: timpson@acetek.enet.dec.com () Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation References: <1992Aug10.143419.24967@ryn.mro4.dec.com> <35063.226927623@kcbbs.gen.nz> Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 13:04:43 GMT In article <35063.226927623@kcbbs.gen.nz>, Robert_Sutton@kcbbs.gen.nz (Robert Sutton) writes: |>randolph@est.enet.dec.com(Tom Randolph) 10 AUG 92 10:31:28GMT types... |>>It's widely believed that the monks did in fact witness a large meteor |>>impacting the moon.Is that so unbelievable?.I'll post references if |>>you like. |> |>Well it pretty much doesexpand the horizon of my boggle threshold |>as I wonder if the Apollo LEVAs wore those suits because the air was |>toxic to humans.Maybe it was a kind of Total Recall in reverse. |> HUH! "wore those suits because the air was toxic to humans" what the hell are you talking about. the way I read the above is that you think the moon has an atmosphere!!!! How old are you? Steve Food_for_the_Grays -- ----------------------------------------------------------------- | | | My atheism, like that of Spinoza, is true piety towards the | | universe and denies only gods fashioned by men in their own | | image to be servants of their human interests. | | | | -- George Santayana | | | ----------------------------------------------------------------- Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:11193 alt.alien.visitors:8432 sci.skeptic:28897 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day Message-ID: <64018@cup.portal.com> Date: Fri, 14 Aug 92 06:34:36 PDT Organization: The Portal System (TM) References: <1992Jun5.011013.1412@beaver.cs.washington.edu> <63714@cup.portal.com> <63758@cup.portal.com> <63995@cup.portal.com> Lines: 11 As Dean Martin the TV star said on his show, Keep those cards and letters coming in folks. Now for the latest reports of the fourth running of the OOBE Sweepstakes. We have Bridgit starting out pretty good by going to an area on a hill with some people but she got a little mixed up and wound up in a neighbor man's bathroom. I tried to get Kumar jump started by going by 15 minutes early but he just came back the next day with some good feelings. Kumar thinks I sometimes talk in riddles. I guess it's true. I once heard of a person that talked in parables maybe for the same reason. He would like to have me explain what sealing the aura means. Maybe I'll get around to doing that one of these days. I sent a picture to the person I call D. and she did recognize me although she ====JW Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:11194 alt.alien.visitors:8433 sci.skeptic:28899 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day Message-ID: <64019@cup.portal.com> Date: Fri, 14 Aug 92 06:47:20 PDT Organization: The Portal System (TM) References: <1992Jun5.011013.1412@beaver.cs.washington.edu> <63714@cup.portal.com> <63758@cup.portal.com> <63995@cup.portal.com> Lines: 9 --thought I should have a beard. I sent a sketch of what I thought the person I call E the adept should look like and she said it looked like him except I didn't draw in his beard. So there you have it astral fans. We'll have to raise our frequency a little more next week because too many people (including myself) are geting scared when we see or hear some of these lower frequency astral entities. Not to worry. Somebody up there likes us and won't let us stump our toe against a stone. I can't help myself. I always have to put in a riddle or two. John Winston Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!mnemosyne.cs.du.edu!nyx!arpowell From: arpowell@nyx.cs.du.edu (Aimee Powell) Subject: Re: Crop Circles? Message-ID: <1992Aug14.143734.3784@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu> X-Disclaimer: Nyx is a public access Unix system run by the University of Denver for the Denver community. The University has neither control over nor responsibility for the opinions of users. Sender: usenet@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu (netnews admin account) Organization: Nyx, Public Access Unix at U. of Denver Math/CS dept. References: <1992Aug13.141822.14638@usenet.ins.cwru.edu> <1992Aug13.15052 Date: Fri, 14 Aug 92 14:37:34 GMT Lines: 62 In article <3306@bcstec.ca.boeing.com> kuryakin@bcstec.ca.boeing.com (Ric Pavek) writes: >In article <1992Aug13.150520.21049@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu> arpowell@nyx.cs. u.edu (Aimee Powell) writes: >>As I understand it, the Science News article took great care to call >>the circles hoaxes, and to point out that some people had already >>come forward saying that they had made some of the circles. >> >>I wouldn't really call that article a good reference, if one were >>looking for support of the "aliens are coming" theory. > >A citation is a citation is a citation... > >The only problem with this one is that the Science News is a rehash, >kind of a Readers Digest of the Scientific publications, and no >original research was done. I'm sure you could also find all manner >of publications that say that the Reagan era was good for civil >liberties, too. That wouldn't change anything... > >I don't want you to get the wrong idea about my comments... I'm not >jumping on your citation because it doesn't agree with me... rather >that I haven't actually claimed the aliens are coming, rather I'v >tried to leave the door open to explanations other than human. >I have no evidence the aliens are coming. What my opinion is has no >bearing on this case. I can't prove there are aliens and I don't >intend to. I'm simply stating that there is reason to doubt that >humans with mechanical implements created the majority of the >crop circles and that any explanation is only a theory. Even the >two hoaxters (that were reported to have recanted their story) could >be hoaxing their confession. Until someone can stand in the middle >of one forming, with a camera, tape recorder or other instruments >there will always be doubt. Heck, until the Leyden Jar and the >Galvanometer scientists doubted there was such a radical thing >as electricity!! > >I can't prove a negative any more than someone can prove the positive. >I can't prove the aliens made any of the crop circles and no one can >prove to the same level of certainty that humans created all of them. > >Sure, you can jump on the simple explanation and try to make it apply >to all of the circles... any fool can do that... > >Rick >:-) >-- >Rick Pavek | Never ask a droid to outdo its progra . >kuryakin@bcstec.boeing.com | >AppleLink: kuryakin | It wastes your time >r.pavek1@GENIE | and annoys the droid. Unsolved Mysteries *did* set up cameras to find out what was going on a couple (?) of years ago, and caught people faking the circles. Of course, this has not resulted in a major story on that show, nor on any others that carry the crop circle stories regularly. 'mee Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!decwrl!csus.edu!netcom.com!payner From: payner@netcom.com (Rich Payne) Subject: Re: Crop Circles? Message-ID: Date: Fri, 14 Aug 92 14:27:34 GMT Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest) References: <1992Aug13.141822.14638@usenet.ins.cwru.edu> <1992Aug13.150520.21049@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu> <3306@bcstec.ca.boeing.com> Lines: 26 In article <3306@bcstec.ca.boeing.com> kuryakin@bcstec.ca.boeing.com (Rick Pavek) writes: [...] >I can't prove a negative any more than someone can prove the positive. Say what? >I can't prove the aliens made any of the crop circles and no one can >prove to the same level of certainty that humans created all of them. > >Sure, you can jump on the simple explanation and try to make it apply >to all of the circles... any fool can do that... > >Rick >:-) >-- >Rick Pavek | Never ask a droid to outdo its program. >kuryakin@bcstec.boeing.com | >AppleLink: kuryakin | It wastes your time >r.pavek1@GENIE | and annoys the droid. Rich payner@netcom.com Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!pipex!warwick!dcs.warwick.ac.uk!sunserver1.aston.ac.uk!uhura!evansmp From: evansmp@uhura.aston.ac.uk (Mark Evans) Subject: Re: Landing on thw White House lawn Message-ID: <1992Aug14.105922.9839@aston.ac.uk> Sender: usenet@aston.ac.uk (Usenet administrator) Nntp-Posting-Host: uhura Organization: Aston University References: <1992Aug12.100452.26123@cco.caltech.edu> Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 10:59:22 GMT Lines: 28 keith@cco.caltech.edu (Keith Allan Schneider) writes: : : Now, obviously that aliens, if they exist, do not want us to know that they : are here, right? Or else they would just land on the White House lawn like : in that moive (you know the one). So why would an alien that is intelligent Maybe they don't like the idea of the USAF shooting them down, as happened in that other movie. : Now, we have documented cases in which exact such circles have been created : by hoaxsters. Why the need for some supernatural explanation? The "guys : with plank" theory seems to work perfectly. Until we see more evidence that : indicates that this theory is not sufficient to explain the phenomenon, I : see no use to propose something fantastic. : : My mind is closed you say? No, I admit that there is a very very remote : possibility that there are very dumb aliens out there. I suppose it could : be like the nutty professor who concots the GUT but then locks his keys in his : car. I sincerely doubt though that aliens would overlook this footprint. : Show be an alien creating a crop circle, and I will believe that aliens : create them. Maybe there exist alien pranksters? -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Mark Evans |evansmp@uhura.aston.ac.uk +(44) 21 565 1979 (Home) |evansmp@cs.aston.ac.uk +(44) 21 359 6531 x4039 (Office) | Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!olivea!decwrl!deccrl!news.crl.dec.com!pa.dec.com!nntpd2.cxo.dec.com!nntpd.lkg.dec.com!engage.pko.dec.com!verga.enet.dec.com!stanley From: stanley@verga.enet.dec.com (My name is...) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Crop Circles? Message-ID: <1992Aug14.145945.5875@engage.pko.dec.com> Date: 14 Aug 92 15:50:51 GMT Sender: newsdaemon@engage.pko.dec.com (USENET News Daemon) Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation Lines: 59 In article <1992Aug13.221257.22629@dartvax.dartmouth.edu>, Rickie.A.Slater@dartmouth.edu (Rickie A. Slater) writes... >In article <1992Aug13.163641.20572@engage.pko.dec.com> >stanley@verga.enet.dec.com (My name is...) writes: > >> In article <1992Aug12.112650.25645@dartvax.dartmouth.edu>, Rickie.A.Slater@dartmouth.edu (Rickie A. Slater) writes... >> > >> >>Why land in the middle of crops, making a stange formation that will get >> >people suspicious when you could easily land in some other place that would >> >leave no such "evidence." >> >> Because you want to leave evidence... that's the whole point. >> /\ >I didn't write this ||. I believe they don't care what evidence is left >as long as it does not make for bad karma by being intentional, >nonuseful destruction. It is useful. They are alerting us to their presence in a non-threatening manner. > > || >I did write this \/. >> > >> >If you had work to do in a place where no one could overpower or >> >influence you would you really care what kind of impression you made, >> >on the planet surface or on the inhabitants lives? >> >> Yes... I would. > >I expect that if you really do care about your affects on everything >alive as much as you imply that you have been through a lot of >different jobs and spent a lot of time out of work.If given the job to >go to carry something to the boat dock that is accross a large lawn >towards the lake do you contemplate what you are stepping on every >step of the way? Maybe frogs, moles, earthworms, insects, plants and >who knows what else. I believe when we are at work we pay little >attention to anything outside of our work or the work does not get done >right. You say you would care about the affects of your actions but >when was the last time you said no to your boss or got so involved with >things other than the job you were given that it interfered with the >job getting done? If I am wrong let me know how to do what you do. You are wrong. :-) If your job was to facilitate the merging of a neophyte culture into one far older and more experienced spacefaring culture, then you wouldn't begin by scaring them to death and alienating them. You would announce your presence gently and you would be very patient and give them the time they need to observe you and your ways..to get to know you.. so that they will not feel out of control. If you are a gardener, do you trample the flowers? >BTW how long have you been a vegetarian? I don't see the relevance at all. Xref: icaen talk.bizarre:69998 alt.alien.visitors:8438 Newsgroups: talk.bizarre,alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!caen!uvaarpa!murdoch!usenet From: rwd4f@poe.acc.Virginia.EDU (Rob Dobson) Subject: George Herbert Walker Bush is from a Planet far far away Message-ID: <1992Aug14.160124.2552@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU> Followup-To: misc.misc,misc.jobs.offered.entry,misc.test,alt.test Sender: usenet@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU Organization: University of Virginia Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 16:01:24 GMT Lines: 8 I just heard it from my source, who is beaming down radio waves of pleasant healing frequencies as well as extensive information and news from the star A-13 (as they call it) which is in the constellation Cygnus to us here on earth. Anyway, he confides to me that George Bush is an alien, he came here after being exiled from A-13. He is a reckless egomaniac, and plans to destroy earth and enslave the entire milky way galaxy. Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!darwin.sura.net!mips!decwrl!access.usask.ca!ccu.umanitoba.ca!rutkows From: rutkows@ccu.umanitoba.ca (Chris Rutkowski) Subject: Re: Crop Circles? Message-ID: <1992Aug14.162906.14155@ccu.umanitoba.ca> Organization: University of Manitoba, Winnipeg, Canada References: <1992Aug12.100452.26123@cco.caltech.edu> <3276@bcstec.ca.boeing.com> <1992Aug13.035027.4847@cco.caltech.edu> <3293@bcstec.ca.boeing.com> Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 16:29:06 GMT Lines: 61 In <3293@bcstec.ca.boeing.com> kuryakin@bcstec.ca.boeing.com (Rick Pavek) writes: >Now one of my contentions is that people on the net are trying to >debunk the phenomena by debunking the USENET messages. Let's try >a different tack. >According to _Circular Evidence_ by Pat Delgado & Colin Andrews, >Phanes Press 1989 (yep, pre hoaxters) crop circles have been around >since the 1950's in Australia. The hoaxters used a technique known >to break the stalks as the stalks don't bend. Yet the stalks are >quite bent, permanently so. They continue to grow that way. They >don't straighten, and they lie in regular patterns. There are >a variety of patterns, and (that's the patterns in the cereal, NOT >the shape of the circle...) a variety of theories are examined. >If you care to examine the book, and read it, you'll have a lot >more information. If you base your knowledge on what you read on >the net, or in newspapers (or on just one book...) then you're >biased. >If you read the book, drop me a note and we'll pick this discussion up >where we left off... Just a minute - don't be =too= hard on him, Rick. Colin Andrews is hardly the ultimate authority on crop circles. He was caught along with all the other cerealogists by ploclaiming hoax circles genuine. The trouble is that if you read only books about crop circles written by cerealogists with a particular theory or viewpoint, you'll get biased information or miss out on other information. The trouble is that in order to understand crop circle phenomena, you have to look at them from the perspective that they are special cases of the broader category of UGMs (unusual ground markings), including "burn marks", "tripod marks", holes, "saucer nests", etc. Ted Phillips' excellent Catalogue of Physical Traces contains references to numerous UGMs INCLUDING crop circles, from hundreds of years ago, and around the world. What is unusual is that the popular version of crop circles that people are familiar with and grace the nice, glossy coffee table books is so predominant in southern England. Serious researchers thought most circles and formations were hoaxes long before the Bower/Chorley hoax admissions, and long before Andrews and Meaden got burned. I agree with the lamentations that there is very litle accurate information on the subject being published, but that's because that's not what people want to hear or read. Glossy pictures of "mysteries" are much more interesting than statistical analyses or quantifiable data about crop circles and other UGMs. Furthermore, there is good information available in the NET, but you have to look for it. Sure, there's junk posted, too, but that's part of the phenomenon. You have to use good judgement to sort out the wheat from the chaff (pun in context intended). -- Chris Rutkowski - rutkows@ccu.umanitoba.ca Royal Astronomical Society of Canada University of Manitoba - Winnipeg, Canada Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!darwin.sura.net!mips!decwrl!access.usask.ca!ccu.umanitoba.ca!rutkows From: rutkows@ccu.umanitoba.ca (Chris Rutkowski) Subject: Re: Crop Circles? Message-ID: <1992Aug14.163542.14900@ccu.umanitoba.ca> Organization: University of Manitoba, Winnipeg, Canada References: <1992Aug13.191152.2719@usenet.ins.cwru.edu> Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 16:35:42 GMT Lines: 29 In <1992Aug13.191152.2719@usenet.ins.cwru.edu> cc203@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (David R. Stepien) writes: >Here's another interesting thing from the Crop Circle Communique video: >Some German students managed to videotape a small white disk flying through >a crop formation in the middle of the day, then ascending into the air and >disappearing. This is clearly visible in the video. Once again, no one >can explain it. Wrong. Several people have explained it, long before the video became widely-circulated. I have a copy. I share the opinion of many people that the object (which is not a white disc at all, but an oblong blob) is more likely a piece of paper being tossed about by the wind, hence its erratic behaviour and darting in and out among the tops of the plants. No, I am not a skeptic or debunker. I'm a cerealogist. But because I can explain some of the alleged effects and formations does not mean I discount the entire phenomenon. What I can say is that the video is nor proof that Andrews' theory (or Meaden's, for that matter) is supported by the evidence. What we can say is that there are unexplained observations and effects, but NO theory so far proposed seems satisfactory. -- Chris Rutkowski - rutkows@ccu.umanitoba.ca Royal Astronomical Society of Canada University of Manitoba - Winnipeg, Canada Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!acd4!TEFS1!gvb From: gvb@TEFS1.acd.com (Gregg Brown) Subject: Re: Crop Circles? Message-ID: <1992Aug13.132940.22647@acd4.acd.com> Sender: news@acd4.acd.com (USENET News System) Organization: Applied Computing Devices, Inc., Terre Haute IN References: <1992Aug7.181652.26139@acd4.acd.com> <1992Aug8.065811.3941@cco.caltech.edu> Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 13:29:40 GMT Lines: 43 In article <1992Aug8.065811.3941@cco.caltech.edu> keith@cco.caltech.edu (Keith Allan Schneider) writes: >gvb@TEFS1.acd.com (Gregg Brown) writes: > >>In article nateh@quake.sylmar.ca.us (Nate Hawthorn) writes: > >>[Media sensational views deleted] > >>>I'm sure there's lots going on, too bad we don't have a "circles.data" on >>>here somewhere that posts GIF files and long/lat of these circles (and any >>>other data on the circle)... >>> >>>Too bad, these are what Mr. Homes would love, CLUES left behind from >>>gravity drive! >>> >>>Nate.. > >>Gravity Drive???!!! I need some real details on this. > >Now wait a minute. Didn't some guys admit to doing all of those crop circles? >It was a group of older guys. They took a 2x4 with some ropes and smashed the >crops with their foot on the board... > >Of course, I assume that all of the skeptical people in alt.alien didn't >believe them. > >keith Its certainly easier to believe that it was gravity drive than to believe two retired guys (that were not in that great of physical shape) could manage to drive all over the countryside making crop circles since, in some cases, the circles were many miles (>50) appart. This and also, the method with which they described would have damaged the plants in a small but detectable way. Fact is, it was a reverse hoax just to attract attention. There are also crop circles of the same type in the US. Although it is a slim possibility they did do some crop circles, I seriously doubt they did very many. Gregg. Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!acd4!TEFS1!gvb From: gvb@TEFS1.acd.com (Gregg Brown) Subject: Re: Crop Circles? Message-ID: <1992Aug13.182925.23732@acd4.acd.com> Sender: news@acd4.acd.com (USENET News System) Organization: Applied Computing Devices, Inc., Terre Haute IN References: <14113@mindlink.bc.ca> Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 18:29:25 GMT Lines: 22 In article <14113@mindlink.bc.ca> Greg_Goss@mindlink.bc.ca (Greg Goss) writes: >Nothing kills a controversy faster than humour. > >Everyone in North America (TV ads) knows that crop circles are made by enormour >peanut butter/chocolate snack morsels. > >.../greg > >-- >"say NO to four-line sigs" greg_goss@mindlink.bc.ca Well, yeah! That means that the real mystery is who eats all that peanutbutter and chocolate???!!! Maybe Hershey was an alien. Makes you wonder, doesn't it. ...Hmmmmm...nah. Gregg. Xref: icaen alt.alien.visitors:8443 sci.skeptic:28907 alt.paranormal:5630 Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic,alt.paranormal Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!acd4!TEFS1!gvb From: gvb@TEFS1.acd.com (Gregg Brown) Subject: Re: Public Opinion Poll. Message-ID: <1992Aug13.184048.23824@acd4.acd.com> Sender: news@acd4.acd.com (USENET News System) Organization: Applied Computing Devices, Inc., Terre Haute IN References: <1992Aug7.161433.25597@acd4.acd.com> <1992Aug7.205502.18395@m.cs.uiuc.edu> <1992Aug09.012906.15149@eng.umd.edu> Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1992 18:40:48 GMT Lines: 32 In article <1992Aug09.012906.15149@eng.umd.edu> georgec@eng.umd.edu (George B. Clark) writes: >In article <1992Aug7.205502.18395@m.cs.uiuc.edu> mcgrath@cs.uiuc.edu writes: >> >>I never answer surveys unless I am fully informed as to who is collecting >>it and why. >> > >Given that some people are nervous about being polled, we are >already gauranteed the outcome won't reflect public opinion because >the poll won't contain a random sample of people. > > Well, unfortunately, this is true. The sample of people that will be participating in this poll will not be a random sample. BTW, responses to the public opinion poll have slowed to 2 or 3 a day. I will be publishing the results in about another 3 or 4 days (Monday?). I have been informed by several observant individuals that my questions were incorrectly asked. So, don't rely too heavily on the outcome of this poll to change your opinion of the public opinion. I will be doing another poll sometime in the future to correct this error. Thanx to everyone that gave me responses, whether just poll responses or other. Special thanx to the guy that said "I don't like your questions" and for the special "tutorial" he left for me. I WILL do better next time. Gregg. Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!acd4!TEFS1!gvb From: gvb@TEFS1.acd.com (Gregg Brown) Subject: Re: THE NATURE OF REALITY Message-ID: <1992Aug14.142713.26703@acd4.acd.com> Sender: news@acd4.acd.com (USENET News System) Organization: Applied Computing Devices, Inc., Terre Haute IN References: <1992Aug7.152034.14241@usenet.ins.cwru.edu> <85571@netnews.upenn.edu> <1992Aug9.071406.6873@techbook.com> Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 14:27:13 GMT Lines: 44 In article <1992Aug9.071406.6873@techbook.com> nancyp@techbook.com (Nancy Parsons) writes: >jmv@grip.cis.upenn.edu (Jean-Marc Vezien) writes: >B > >>> 1. No tracks whatsoever around the carcasses. > >>You obviously never tried to hide tracks. Not a too difficult >>job, if you want to. > >>> 2. All blood completely drained from the bodies, but no blood on the >>> ground. > >>Well ? the blood was drained somewhere else ! > > >I might find it a tad difficult to cart ol' Bossie off, drain her >blood and do a little dissection, and truck her back again, all >however-many hundreds of pounds of dead meat of her, without either >a whole crowd of people, or some heavy equipment. Given the logistical >problems of transporting the carcass, I would think hiding the resulting >tracks would be a DAMN difficult job. > >-------------------------------------------------------------------------- >| Nancy Parsons | "You can't fire me - slaves must be sold! | Actually it would be easy to NOT make any. You use a helicopter and a winch. Would have to be a fairly large helicopter but it could be done. The problem is most of the places that this has happened (desert southwest etc), the ranchers would immediately have spotted a helicopter (during the day) and easily heard it at night. You have to understand that the livestock for these ranchers, I know-I used to raise cattle, are their life. They take care of them like babies almost. Another strange thing is: WHY? Why would someone "cownap" and dissect? Could be any number of reasons. Some have said satanic cults do this for the blood. I am not sure there is any evidence that realy points to any alien presence here, but it sure could if you get to thinking about it. Covering tracks is not DAMN difficult if you want to do a good job. However, anyone that can track at all knows that you would be able to see something even with the most experienced "track hider" in charge. May not be able to tell what it was or which direction it went, but you could see it had been there. Tracks are easily messed up and disguised but DAMN difficult to erase. Gregg. Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!acd4!TEFS1!gvb From: gvb@TEFS1.acd.com (Gregg Brown) Subject: Re: Aliens are partly to blame Message-ID: <1992Aug14.145655.26835@acd4.acd.com> Sender: news@acd4.acd.com (USENET News System) Organization: Applied Computing Devices, Inc., Terre Haute IN References: <63577@cup.portal.com> <63706@cup.portal.com> Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 14:56:55 GMT Lines: 59 In article <63706@cup.portal.com> thad@cup.portal.com (Thad P Floryan) writes: Thad, hope you don't mind my chopping up of your well written message to add my comments. > >*IF* one subscribes to an "alien visitor" hypothesis, there are several (and >probably more) concomitant assumptions one could make concerning the visitors: > > -- they're intelligent (by our standards, understanding physics (re: > space travel), mathematics (re: celestial navigation), chemistry > and This is undoubtedly true *IF* one subscribes. >biology (re: survival during space flight), etc etc) Not necessarily. One thing I have been pondering for a long time is the fact that *IF* aliens exist, their rate of development in areas of technology, biology and social stuctures could be very different from our own. They could be very unadvanced in some areas and just advanced more in interstellar space travel. There are some books that were mentioned to me a few years ago by my boss (who is also interested in this subject of aliens) about lost technologies. Could be that the ancient Egyptians had technologies that we do not. Thats what the books suggested. I don't mean they had better radios and TVs or faster memory chips. More like, better ways to cut stone. Or better ways to move large objects. There are small shreds of evidence to suggest this. What I am trying to say is that just because the possibly existing aliens can "do" space flight, does not mean they are more advanced in every way. They could be VERY primitive is some ways so as to totally confound us. Many have dreamed of aliens with unimaginable technology but it might be in some certain directions and not in all. > -- they're curious (HOWEVER, their motivation may not be in OUR best > interest(s)) The fact that a race has *ANY* technology indicates they are curious. Their motivation could be in our WORST interests. I think we need to prove their existence before we start >Thad Floryan [ thad@cup.portal.com ] Gregg. Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!acd4!TEFS1!gvb From: gvb@TEFS1.acd.com (Gregg Brown) Subject: Re: New LITE Beer Commercial with aliens Message-ID: <1992Aug14.154014.27000@acd4.acd.com> Sender: news@acd4.acd.com (USENET News System) Organization: Applied Computing Devices, Inc., Terre Haute IN References: Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 15:40:14 GMT Lines: 21 In article cee1@ra.msstate.edu (Charles Evans) writes: >Well looks like more alien-humor or more desensatizing by the media.. >but tonight toward the end of the Olympics, I saw a semi-shocking commercial, >Lite Beer has a commericial with the aliens-coming and them all dancing >in a circle drinking beer.. they look like greys glowing white, fluorescent >or whatever, I hate those faces, anyway, there were 2 dozen or so dancing >around, then it ended up with a mockery of the wheat circles with the >Lite Beer logo imprinted in a wheat field .. as like wheat circles... > >anyone seen this one.. oh boy oh boy > >chucj > I saw it. Just made me want to puke. I wonder if the US Government paid them to produce the commercial. Would sure make me back away from the subject if I were considering applying for a research grant. Gregg. Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sdd.hp.com!swrinde!network.ucsd.edu!sdcrsi!equalizer!timbuk.cray.com!walter.cray.com!ferris!rl From: rl@ferris.cray.com (Randy Lambertus) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Landing on thw White House lawn Message-ID: <1992Aug14.115410.18334@walter.cray.com> Date: 14 Aug 92 16:54:10 GMT References: <1992Aug12.100452.26123@cco.caltech.edu> <1992Aug14.105922.9839@aston.ac.uk> Organization: Cray Research, Inc. Lines: 18 In article <1992Aug14.105922.9839@aston.ac.uk> evansmp@uhura.aston.ac.uk (Mark Evans) writes: >keith@cco.caltech.edu (Keith Allan Schneider) writes: >: > text deleted... >> >Maybe there exist alien pranksters? >-- >------------------------------------------------------------------------- >Mark Evans |evansmp@uhura.aston.ac.uk >+(44) 21 565 1979 (Home) |evansmp@cs.aston.ac.uk >+(44) 21 359 6531 x4039 (Office) | In the Hitch Hiker's Guide to the Galaxy, they are referred to as >>>> Teasers !!! <<<< :') Randy Lambertus Cray Research, Region 4 rl@uk.cray.com Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:11196 alt.alien.visitors:8448 sci.skeptic:28910 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!centerline!noc.near.net!chaos!random.ccs.northeastern.edu!rogue From: rogue@ccs.northeastern.edu (Free Radical) Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day Message-ID: <1992Aug14.171243.1399@random.ccs.northeastern.edu> Date: 14 Aug 92 17:12:43 GMT References: <63758@cup.portal.com> <63995@cup.portal.com> <64018@cup.portal.com> Sender: news@random.ccs.northeastern.edu Organization: Comp. Sci. @ NU Lines: 9 In article <64018@cup.portal.com> John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes: >good feelings. Kumar thinks I sometimes talk in riddles. I guess it's >true. I once heard of a person that talked in parables maybe for the same >reason. Hell of a comparison there, John! RA Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!charon.amdahl.com!amdahl!JUTS!duts!dfs30 From: dfs30@duts.ccc.amdahl.com (Denise Solis) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Crop Circles? Message-ID: <00tQ02VR1eO001@JUTS.ccc.amdahl.com> Date: 14 Aug 92 16:47:37 GMT References: <1992Aug8.065811.3941@cco.caltech.edu> com> <1992Aug10.070053.22751@cco.caltech.edu> <80000@bcsaic.boeing.com> Sender: netnews@ccc.amdahl.com Reply-To: dfs30@DUTS.ccc.amdahl.com (Denise Solis) Organization: Amdahl Corporation, Sunnyvale CA Lines: 21 >>What? When they confessed, they made a circle for the reporters, just >>like the others. Ok, let's be clear on this point. The circles were NOT just like the others. In a true non-debunked crop circle (one that remains a mystery) the crops are not damaged. They continue to grow in the direction of the circle and do not stand up again even if the plants are green. There is usually some unusual radioactive readings in the circle as well. The two men that said they did the hoax created quite a bit of damage. there was also no trace of unusual readings of the ground area. I think these guys are either just jumping on the hoax bandwagon by creating a few circles or paid to spread dis-information. my 2 cents -- ========================================================================= >>>>>>>>>>>|| Copyright (c) Denise faith Solis 1992 ||<<<<<<<<<<< >>>>>>>>>>>|| dfs30@DUTS.ccc.amdahl.com ||<<<<<<<<<<< ========================================================================= Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!charon.amdahl.com!amdahl!JUTS!duts!dfs30 From: dfs30@duts.ccc.amdahl.com (Denise Solis) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Crop Circles? Message-ID: <01oU02zA1eUi01@JUTS.ccc.amdahl.com> Date: 14 Aug 92 16:52:27 GMT References: <1992Aug11.152555.10275@usenet.ins.cwru.edu> Sender: netnews@ccc.amdahl.com Reply-To: dfs30@DUTS.ccc.amdahl.com (Denise Solis) Organization: Amdahl Corporation, Sunnyvale CA Lines: 14 In article <1992Aug11.152555.10275@usenet.ins.cwru.edu> stepiend@rcwcl1.dnet.bp.com writes: > >....................... Quote from "Crop Circle Communique" - "There >is not a single botanist on the face of the earth that can explain >how this occurred." What is this a magazine or publication of some kind? I would be very interested in where I could get a copy. -- ========================================================================= >>>>>>>>>>>|| Copyright (c) Denise faith Solis 1992 ||<<<<<<<<<<< >>>>>>>>>>>|| dfs30@DUTS.ccc.amdahl.com ||<<<<<<<<<<< ========================================================================= Xref: icaen alt.alien.visitors:8451 talk.bizarre:70050 Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,talk.bizarre Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sdd.hp.com!decwrl!pa.dec.com!nntpd2.cxo.dec.com!acetek.enet.dec.com!timpson From: timpson@acetek.enet.dec.com () Subject: Re: George Herbert Walker Bush is from a Planet far far away Message-ID: <1992Aug14.192407.2534@nntpd2.cxo.dec.com> Lines: 29 Sender: usenet@nntpd2.cxo.dec.com (USENET News System) Reply-To: timpson@acetek.enet.dec.com () Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation References: <1992Aug14.160124.2552@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU> Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 19:24:07 GMT In article <1992Aug14.160124.2552@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU>, rwd4f@poe.acc.Virginia.EDU (Rob Dobson) writes: |>I just heard it from my source, who is beaming down radio waves of pleasant |>healing frequencies as well as extensive information and news from the star |>A-13 (as they call it) which is in the constellation Cygnus to us here on |>earth. Anyway, he confides to me that George Bush is an alien, he came here |>after being exiled from A-13. He is a reckless egomaniac, and plans to |>destroy earth and enslave the entire milky way galaxy. You need to wrap som aluminume foil arround you head and in your underware to protect yourself from the radio waves coming from A-13. You are absorbing too many. Steve Food_for_the_Grays -- ----------------------------------------------------------------- | | | My atheism, like that of Spinoza, is true piety towards the | | universe and denies only gods fashioned by men in their own | | image to be servants of their human interests. | | | | -- George Santayana | | | ----------------------------------------------------------------- Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:11197 alt.alien.visitors:8452 sci.skeptic:28917 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!stanford.edu!ames!olivea!news.bbn.com!ingria From: ingria@bbn.com (Bob Ingria) Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day Message-ID: Date: 14 Aug 92 20:22:15 GMT References: <63758@cup.portal.com> <63995@cup.portal.com> <64018@cup.portal.com> <1992Aug14.171243.1399@random.ccs.northeastern.edu> Reply-To: ingria@BBN.COM Lines: 18 NNTP-Posting-Host: bbn.com In-reply-to: rogue@ccs.northeastern.edu's message of 14 Aug 92 17:12:43 GMT In article <1992Aug14.171243.1399@random.ccs.northeastern.edu> rogue@ccs.northeastern.edu (Free Radical) writes: In article <64018@cup.portal.com> John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes: >good feelings. Kumar thinks I sometimes talk in riddles. I guess it's >true. I once heard of a person that talked in parables maybe for the same >reason. Hell of a comparison there, John! Yes, but think of the potential experimental basis it provides for testing out the hypotheses that have been raised in the Shroud of Turin debate. -30- Bob ``They laughed at Galileo, they laughed at Columbus, but they also laughed at Bozo the Clown.'' Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!rpi!bu.edu!dartvax!Rickie.A.Slater From: Rickie.A.Slater@dartmouth.edu (Rickie A. Slater) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Crop Circles? Message-ID: <1992Aug14.195455.4178@dartvax.dartmouth.edu> Date: 14 Aug 92 19:54:55 GMT References: <1992Aug14.145945.5875@engage.pko.dec.com> Sender: news@dartvax.dartmouth.edu (The News Manager) Organization: Dartmouth College, Hanover, NH Lines: 56 In article <1992Aug14.145945.5875@engage.pko.dec.com> stanley@verga.enet.dec.com (My name is...) writes: > > It is useful. They are alerting us to their presence in a non-threatening > manner. What proof do you have that the intention is to alert us to anything? Couldn't the clues we find be the result of something else some it was up to and he/she/it just didn't care if we knew? Maybe some it was just testing out a new toy that bends plants. Then when it found out how much of a commotion it made with the natives it passed out a bunch of them to friends. So now we have a lot of et type aliens bending plants in different places, getting out of sight to watch and laugh their asses off (assuming they have asses) at the foolish natives who are so convinced it means something. Some threatening manners have been reported. BTW do you still believe in Santa Claus? > You are wrong. :-) You are a day dreamer. > If your job was to facilitate the merging of a neophyte culture into > one far older and more experienced spacefaring culture, then you wouldn't > begin by scaring them to death and alienating them. You would announce > your presence gently and you would be very patient and give them the > time they need to observe you and your ways..to get to know you.. so that > they will not feel out of control. What proof do you have that any are interested in merging? Why do you imply all et's are of the same mind and culture with the same intent and purpose? You make it sound like the universe operates like Bambie's woods? > If you are a gardener, do you trample the flowers? Yes. Whenever I please. But only my flowers usually. Yesterday I walked on my wife's carrots, but it was an accident and she doesn't know yet so don't tell her. > >BTW how long have you been a vegetarian? > > I don't see the relevance at all. If you eat the lower species of the earth why shouldn't the et's do so too. But I expect you believe you are above being supper for grey's. *heh* Does anyone besides me believe too much is being read into the crop circles phenomenon? I expect encounters of the third kind would tell me/us more but the alien air travelers are just so darned hard to meet! Anyone got a phone number of some friendly ones who will meet me somewhere and NOT have me over for dinner? Rick S. Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!bcstec!kuryakin From: kuryakin@bcstec.ca.boeing.com (Rick Pavek) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Crop Circles? Message-ID: <3323@bcstec.ca.boeing.com> Date: 14 Aug 92 21:59:13 GMT References: <1992Aug13.141822.14638@usenet.ins.cwru.edu> <1992Aug13.15052 <1992Aug14.143734.3784@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu> Organization: Boeing Lines: 55 In article <1992Aug14.143734.3784@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu> arpowell@nyx.cs.du.edu (Aimee Powell) writes: >Unsolved Mysteries *did* set up cameras to find out what was >going on a couple (?) of years ago, and caught people faking >the circles. Without going into the quality of the data they collected, or of the scientific validity of their techniques (or for that matter, their reputation), I'll accede to the assumption that people (from Earth :-) have indeed created crop circles. But that merely proves that they took pictures of people making circles. For all we know, behind the scenes they could have staged the whole thing. Once again, my point isn't that earthlings created crop circles, my point is that I object to the absolute assertation that earthlings created ALL of the circles. This is simply because no one has proven that they were ALL created by earthlings. Here's the assertion. At least two or more Crop Circles were known to have been caused by Earthlings. Ergo, they all must have been. I say "Prove it". >Of course, this has not resulted in a major story on that show, >nor on any others that carry the crop circle stories regularly. > >'mee Unfortunately, that's the way the media works. Reporters are, by nature, ignorant on most of the subjects they cover. Once they've seen enough to give them any kind of plausible explanation, that's the end of the story. That's why after the Condon Report, UFO stories were ignored by the media. This was in spite of the fact that most of the members of the Condon committee believed there was enough evidence to say the opposite of what was said in the report. But since the phenomena had been 'solved' by a science guy (and we all know those science guys can't be wrong...) there must be nothing to it. I would imagine that the only way for me to feel reasonably certain that crop circles are an entirely man-made phenomena would be for a hoaxter to get shot while doing a fake circle. I would expect that would deter those humans from creating any more circles. If they stop, then I'd assume that they likely were man-made artifacts. If they continue, I'd still have my original doubts. I'll let you know if I ever get any photos of a non-human manufactured crop circle under construction... ;-) Rick -- Rick Pavek | Never ask a droid to outdo its program. kuryakin@bcstec.boeing.com | AppleLink: kuryakin | It wastes your time r.pavek1@GENIE | and annoys the droid. Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!orca!javelin.sim.es.com!news From: KHATCH@130.187.170.178 (Kellan Hatch) Subject: Re: physical evidence In-Reply-To: kuryakin@bcstec.ca.boeing.com's message of 12 Aug 92 23:36:00 GMT Message-ID: <1992Aug14.223643.735@javelin.sim.es.com> Sender: news@javelin.sim.es.com Nntp-Posting-Host: gemini.sim.es.com Organization: Evans & Sutherland References: <1992Aug11.092619.1@cubldr.colorado.edu> <1992Aug11.195522.110@m.cs.uiuc.edu> <3283@bcstec.ca.boeing.com> Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 22:36:43 GMT X-News-Reader: VMS NEWS 1.11 Lines: 9 In <3283@bcstec.ca.boeing.com> kuryakin@bcstec.ca.boeing.com writes: > It's been done. There are recordings of a subject sleepwalking while > she turns the camera off. Supposedly the beings remained off-camera until > this happened. It sounds like sleepwalking/telepathy would be a convenient excuse for the "victim" to turn off the camera and then make up a nice story of what followed. Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!decwrl!csus.edu!netcom.com!jeffp From: jeffp@netcom.com (Jeff Papineau) Subject: Re: THE NATURE OF REALITY Message-ID: Date: Fri, 14 Aug 92 23:13:34 GMT Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest) References: <85571@netnews.upenn.edu> <1992Aug9.071406.6873@techbook.com> <1992Aug14.142713.26703@acd4.acd.com> Lines: 29 I have a hard time believing this thread turned into a Cattle Mutilation discus sion, but Oh Well... I have read about plenty of ranchers who have lost cattle, met aliens, etc. Theyfirst start wondering what in the hell is going on. Then they call the Sheriff, and in a number of the cases, the cops tell the people flat out: `ITs the work of extraterrestrails, and that's all the FBI will tell us". After that, some of the ranchers have spotted UFO's,and even been abducted or contacted. The literature is out there; I'm not writing a research paper, but it's out there, and anyone with a sincere interest in the subject such as myself has no problem finding it. Of course, many of our less esteamed freinds who don't read books on such "far out' subjects are predisposed to other viewpoints, but I'll ask you this: If it was the work of the US government, why wouldn't they raise the cattel themselves? Much cheaper than flying multimillion dollar helicopters around, which is the ONLY possible "other" explaination for all of this. Actually, when you read Alien Harvest, there is really little question as to what this phenomena is caused by. And the real question is what the greys are doing with the material they collect. The answer that that question is beyond the comprehension of most of the people here, so I'll save my findings (which are pretty deep) for another post. Jeff- Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!mnemosyne.cs.du.edu!nyx!arpowell From: arpowell@nyx.cs.du.edu (Aimee Powell) Subject: Re: Crop Circles? Message-ID: <1992Aug14.231649.21560@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu> X-Disclaimer: Nyx is a public access Unix system run by the University of Denver for the Denver community. The University has neither control over nor responsibility for the opinions of users. Sender: usenet@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu (netnews admin account) Organization: Nyx, Public Access Unix at U. of Denver Math/CS dept. References: <1992Aug13.15052 <1992Aug14.143734.3784@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu> Date: Fri, 14 Aug 92 23:16:49 GMT Lines: 22 Wait a minute!! We are discussing crop circles, and you are calling "Unsolved Mysteries" an unreliable source?! For this? We are talking about a television show that panders to those of you who believe that a supernatural force is at work here. They set up the cameras in an area recommended to them by Colin Andrews and left them running. That's it. The last thing in the world I want to do is call that show a credible source of information, but I think that their findings in this case are pretty cut-and-dried. Especially since they went there looking for something else. Before I go, one more thing: Why is it up to me to prove the more plausible of the two explanations? Should we *not* believe more easily that the circles are hoaxes, when we have evidence to support that claim, rather than believe that an alien (or other) force is at work, when we have absolutely NO evidence for that at all? Aimee Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!olivea!hal.com!decwrl!csus.edu!netcom.com!jeffp From: jeffp@netcom.com (Jeff Papineau) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Ley Lines Message-ID: Date: 14 Aug 92 23:51:35 GMT References: <1992Aug12.165518.11656@ryn.mro4.dec.com> <63914@cup.portal.com> <625mcsm@lynx.unm.edu> Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest) Lines: 55 In article <625mcsm@lynx.unm.edu> cary@carina.unm.edu (Ithlial the Archer) writes: >In article <63914@cup.portal.com> John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes: >>Dear Tom: Your right the earth could have grown by 800 or 852 miles. >>It think it hasn't grown that much. The earth should live to an age of >>72.9 trillion years. This information came from T. Lobsang Rampa while >>he was talking to a person on another planet. The dust fact did come >>from a conventional Astronomer. Planets are usually destroyed as part of >>a super nova and then they start over again as part of something else. > >Not by a long shot John, the majority of stars are not massive enough >to become supernovae. All will however become red giants, this _will_ >vaporize the innermost planets in a system, but the outer planets will >be unaffected. I think John's point here is that planets are destroyed, molecular dust is attracted by the earths gravitational field, and that the earth grows slowly over the course of millions of years. > >>Now let me give you another fact. The Earth's resonate frequency is 8.3 >>cycles per second (which varies a little due to certain factors). I wear >>a watch that has a transmitter in it that puts out a wave of energy at >>about the same frequency as the Earth resonant frequency. This shields >>me from ELF (extremely low frequency) radiation. John Winston. > >Why would one worry about natural radiation below the optical band? There >are no natural sources (on the Earth) of radiation in this energy range >intense enough for your body to be effected. All the man made sources I can >think of, microwaves, radio station, TV stations et cetera are harmless. >If your going to worry about natural sources of radiation I'd think UV from >the sun should rank pretty high. The key here is low frequency=low energy. >Radiation in this range is not ionizing, which is what makes it dangerous. > >BTW what is the reference for this ELF radiation from the Earth? > I have heard of these "earth vibe" type machines before. People told me they were good for exposure from 60hz emmissions from AC and florecent lights. It has been reported by Stan Deyo that ELF is used to transmit messages and electricity to submarines and the the US has several ELF transmitters around the globe, but as to this being disruptive to the subtle body of humans, I don't know about that. Also , radio emissions are really not that well understood, and we really don't know what long term effects of being surrounded by them, being close to transmission sources, etc. will do to health in general. Hence, the articles in many publications regarding wire-less computer networks, and possible health related issues, as well as montitor emmissions, etc. John, sounds like quite a watch! Jeff- > >My opinions, mine, mine, mine! > >To me, boxing is like ballet, except there's no music, no choreography, >and the dancers hit eachother. Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!decwrl!csus.edu!netcom.com!jeffp From: jeffp@netcom.com (Jeff Papineau) Subject: Re: physical evidence Message-ID: <696mrvr.jeffp@netcom.com> Date: Sat, 15 Aug 92 00:05:11 GMT Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest) References: <1992Aug11.195522.110@m.cs.uiuc.edu> <3283@bcstec.ca.boeing.com> Lines: 47 In article <3283@bcstec.ca.boeing.com> kuryakin@bcstec.ca.boeing.com (Rick Pavek) writes: >> events in it. Turn on a videotape loop every night before going >> to bed. Maybe prepare the ground outside to mark footprints. >> Set up automatic video or camera equipment around the house >> to record people (beings, whatever) going in and out. Et cetera. > > >It's been done. There are recordings of a subject sleepwalking while >she turns the camera off. Supposedly the beings remained off-camera until >this happened. > >Now part of the claims of the abductees is that there seems to be a form >of telepathy involved. If that's the case (What? Now I have to prove >Telepathy, Too??) then you'll not only have to put a camera on the >victim and their residence, but you'll also have to do it without >the victim's knowledge. And also, you'll have to avoid having >someone watching from nearby, with the knowledge the events are taped. >You might put someone nearby, and put them on camera, too, without >their knowledge. If they know about it, they can think about it, and >if Telepathy is associated with this, then the abductors will know >about it. > >Of course, they might have some means to scan for electrical activity >nearby... > >Rick > I met a lady whom was abducted, and she spoke of how the greys knew that she had a lot of guns in the house. They asked her why? (She is a PI) So obviously, they can scan the contents of a dwelling in pretty short order, and they know who is there, and what is there, and anything your thinking about. Not too difficult compared to beeming in thru walls and windows: She said her very solid bathroom wall became opaque, and the aliens left thru it (which is much like what most abductees report) although they are reported to preferre windows to walls. Jeff- >Rick Pavek | Never ask a droid to outdo its program. >kuryakin@bcstec.boeing.com | >AppleLink: kuryakin | It wastes your time >r.pavek1@GENIE | and annoys the droid. Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!math.fu-berlin.de!news.uni-stuttgart.de!rz.uni-karlsruhe.de!stepsun.uni-kl.de!sun.rhrk.uni-kl.de!efes.physik.uni-kl.de!kring From: kring@efes.physik.uni-kl.de (Thomas Kettenring) Subject: Re: Crop Circles? Message-ID: <1992Aug14.203029.2247@rhrk.uni-kl.de> Sender: news@rhrk.uni-kl.de Organization: FB Physik, Universitaet Kaiserslautern, Germany References: <1992Aug13.141822.14638@usenet.ins.cwru.edu> <1992Aug13.150520.21049@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu> <3306@bcstec.ca.boeing.com> Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 20:30:29 GMT Lines: 62 In article <3306@bcstec.ca.boeing.com>, kuryakin@bcstec.ca.boeing.com (Rick Pavek) writes: >I don't want you to get the wrong idea about my comments... I'm not >jumping on your citation because it doesn't agree with me... rather >that I haven't actually claimed the aliens are coming, rather I'v >tried to leave the door open to explanations other than human. But you *sound* as if you want to close the door on this one explanation (humans). >I have no evidence the aliens are coming. What my opinion is has no >bearing on this case. I can't prove there are aliens and I don't >intend to. I'm simply stating that there is reason to doubt that >humans with mechanical implements created the majority of the >crop circles and that any explanation is only a theory. Which reason? >Even the >two hoaxters (that were reported to have recanted their story) could >be hoaxing their confession. It was not only a confession, it was a demonstration. They made a circle, and the famous cerealogist Pat Delgado said it was "genuine". >Until someone can stand in the middle >of one forming, with a camera, tape recorder or other instruments >there will always be doubt. After that there will be doubt too, because that will only explain this one circle. > Heck, until the Leyden Jar and the >Galvanometer scientists doubted there was such a radical thing >as electricity!! Aha, a new incarnation of Ye Olde Galileo Pseudo Argument. "They didn't believe Galileo, they don't believe me, Galileo was right, I am too." >I can't prove a negative any more than someone can prove the positive. >I can't prove the aliens made any of the crop circles and no one can >prove to the same level of certainty that humans created all of them. There is a vast difference between these two hypotheses. To prove humans made every crop circle ever observed, one has to clear up *every* case, which is impossible. To prove aliens made one of them, one has to clear up one case. Therefore the "there are other things that cause circles beside humans" hypothesis is not falsifiable, and you shouldn't demand of others to falsify it. In an older article you write: RP>Prove they were all made by humans. Don't just assume. You demand proof for a non-provable hypothesis before believing in it. That is indeed closing the door on it. >Sure, you can jump on the simple explanation and try to make it apply >to all of the circles... any fool can do that... Fools can do other things too... -- --------------thomas kettenring, 2 dan, kaiserslautern, germany--------------- Definition: Idiot-proof - you are idiot-proof when you NEVER flame anybody. Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!cs.utexas.edu!sdd.hp.com!mips!mips!decwrl!csus.edu!netcom.com!jeffp From: jeffp@netcom.com (Jeff Papineau) Subject: Re: Whitley Strieber Message-ID: Date: Sat, 15 Aug 92 00:27:21 GMT Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest) References: <1992Aug9.052434.18684@u.washington.edu> <1992Aug12.190616.12765@cs.wisc.edu> Lines: 46 > >Overall, Whitley sounds like a modern rehash of the 1950's "contactees" -- >people who made wild (obviously false) claims of contact with aliens and tended >to glamorize them ala Whitley. "The aliens are here to save us from ourselves, >and I am their spokesperson" type stuff. So it's not even a new idea -- >Strieber just had to wait 30 years for people to forget George Adamski et al >and then tell the same old stories again. Voila -- millions of copies sold. > >If he isn't making it all up consciously, then his subconscious mind probably >is. Either way, I don't buy it. > >For a much more credible abduction story, try reading _The Interrupted Journey_ >by John G. Fuller (about Barny and Betty Hill). Their story at least has none >Kevin Cherkauer >cherkaue@cs.wisc.edu Well, I'm impressed. You've actually read a UFO book. That makes you more serious than most people commenting in this group. Actually, there are hundreds of known contactees, and thousands of known abductees. Generally, we are dealing with different alien races that do the contacts vs. the abductions. Most abductees never talk about their experiences because people like you call those experiences "obviously false" just because they took a ride in the saucer, or claimed benevolent messages. Of the hundreds of known cases, contactees generally have similar experiences, and this can be correlated to abductees, whom generally have similar experiences as well. I found it interesting that in the US, aerospace workers are a favorite target of benevolent space brothers. (Sources: To the Men of Earth, and The Promise. ) I have been to symposiums that had several contactees in attendence, and I am here to tell you that they are not a product of any particualr decade, they are not crazy, and they sincerely believe in their experiences and the messages given them to relate to others. Most have never sought to attract attention to themselves, let alone written a book about the experience, and many will not step forward for the betterment of man-kind because of PEOPLE LIKE YOU. Peace, Jeff- Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!agate!ames!data.nas.nasa.gov!mustang.mst6.lanl.gov!nntp-server.caltech.edu!keith From: keith@cco.caltech.edu (Keith Allan Schneider) Subject: Re: Crop Circles? Message-ID: <1992Aug14.200312.1284@cco.caltech.edu> Sender: news@cco.caltech.edu Nntp-Posting-Host: coil Organization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena References: <1992Aug12.100452.26123@cco.caltech.edu> <3276@bcstec.ca.boeing.com> <1992Aug13.035027.4847@cco.caltech.edu> <3293@bcstec.ca.boeing.com> <1992Aug14.162906.14155@ccu.umanitoba.ca> Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1992 20:03:12 GMT Lines: 65 rutkows@ccu.umanitoba.ca (Chris Rutkowski) writes: >In <3293@bcstec.ca.boeing.com> kuryakin@bcstec.ca.boeing.com (Rick Pavek) writes: >>Now one of my contentions is that people on the net are trying to >>debunk the phenomena by debunking the USENET messages. Let's try >>a different tack. >>According to _Circular Evidence_ by Pat Delgado & Colin Andrews, >>Phanes Press 1989 (yep, pre hoaxters) crop circles have been around >>since the 1950's in Australia. The hoaxters used a technique known >>to break the stalks as the stalks don't bend. Yet the stalks are >>quite bent, permanently so. They continue to grow that way. They >>don't straighten, and they lie in regular patterns. There are >>a variety of patterns, and (that's the patterns in the cereal, NOT >>the shape of the circle...) a variety of theories are examined. >>If you care to examine the book, and read it, you'll have a lot >>more information. If you base your knowledge on what you read on >>the net, or in newspapers (or on just one book...) then you're >>biased. >>If you read the book, drop me a note and we'll pick this discussion up >>where we left off... >Just a minute - don't be =too= hard on him, Rick. >Colin Andrews is hardly the ultimate authority on crop circles. He was >caught along with all the other cerealogists by ploclaiming hoax >circles genuine. The trouble is that if you read only books about crop >circles written by cerealogists with a particular theory or viewpoint, >you'll get biased information or miss out on other information. >The trouble is that in order to understand crop circle phenomena, you >have to look at them from the perspective that they are special cases >of the broader category of UGMs (unusual ground markings), including >"burn marks", "tripod marks", holes, "saucer nests", etc. Ted >Phillips' excellent Catalogue of Physical Traces contains references to >numerous UGMs INCLUDING crop circles, from hundreds of years ago, and >around the world. >What is unusual is that the popular version of crop circles that people >are familiar with and grace the nice, glossy coffee table books is so >predominant in southern England. Serious researchers thought most >circles and formations were hoaxes long before the Bower/Chorley hoax >admissions, and long before Andrews and Meaden got burned. >I agree with the lamentations that there is very litle accurate >information on the subject being published, but that's because that's >not what people want to hear or read. Glossy pictures of "mysteries" >are much more interesting than statistical analyses or quantifiable >data about crop circles and other UGMs. >Furthermore, there is good information available in the NET, but you >have to look for it. Sure, there's junk posted, too, but that's part >of the phenomenon. You have to use good judgement to sort out the >wheat from the chaff (pun in context intended). > I still say that all you have to do to convince everyone that aliens are making these circles is to just catch the aliens in the act. This shouldn't be too hard, should it? *I'll* be waiting for your videotape... keith Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!sun-barr!news2me.ebay.sun.com!jethro.Corp.Sun.COM!starflight!jdr From: jdr@starflight.Corp.Sun.COM (Jon Roland) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Crop Circles? Date: 15 Aug 1992 03:08:41 GMT Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc. Lines: 20 Distribution: world Message-ID: References: <1992Aug14.163542.14900@ccu.umanitoba.ca> Reply-To: jdr@starflight.Corp.Sun.COM NNTP-Posting-Host: starflight.corp.sun.com In article 14900@ccu.umanitoba.ca, rutkows@ccu.umanitoba.ca (Chris Rutkowski) writes: >Several people have explained it, long before the video became >widely-circulated. I have a copy. I share the opinion of many people >that the object (which is not a white disc at all, but an oblong blob) >is more likely a piece of paper being tossed about by the wind, hence >its erratic behaviour and darting in and out among the tops of the >plants. There is a problem with this explanation. If it was being tossed by the wind, so would the crops be, and they were not. It was reported that the wind was light, steady, and that the object moved against the wind. --- jdr@starflight.corp.sun.com, starflt@uunet.uu.net Jon Roland Starflight Corporation, 1755 E Bayshore Rd #9A, Redwood City, CA 94063-4142, 415/361-8141 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!sun-barr!male.EBay.Sun.COM!jethro.Corp.Sun.COM!starflight!jdr From: jdr@starflight.Corp.Sun.COM (Jon Roland) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Crop Circles? Date: 15 Aug 1992 03:23:11 GMT Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc. Lines: 31 Distribution: world Message-ID: References: <01oU02zA1eUi01@JUTS.ccc.amdahl.com> Reply-To: jdr@starflight.Corp.Sun.COM NNTP-Posting-Host: starflight.corp.sun.com There seems to be a tendency to explain crop circles as landing sites of UFOs, but there is another explanation that needs to be added to the set of contenders, which is that they are the sites where alien vessels have passed into or out of the ground using a method of transportation which allows them to interpenetrate or bypass ordinary matter with a minimum of interaction, although enough interaction to cause things like crop circles. There has been at least one report from a witness that he was standing in a field when a crop circle was formed around him. He also experienced paralysis. He reports that he received a telepathic message: "Don't be alarmed. You are standing in the middle of our spaceship." After a couple of seconds, the paralysis ended and the crop circle was there. We tend to assume that solid objects cannot interpenetrate each other, but an alien technology may allow this, in which case they could have underground bases without entrances. If this is what the markings are, then the explanation of their shapes would not be that they are some kind of symbol, but that they are the shapes of the vessels that passed through at that point. If these are the shapes of objects, then what kinds of objects could have such shapes? One obvious explanation is that the more unusual, nonsymmetric ones are either special-purpose machines or large modules of a construction project. Perhaps aliens are expanding or removing one or more bases under Southern Britain and other places. --- jdr@starflight.corp.sun.com, starflt@uunet.uu.net Jon Roland Starflight Corporation, 1755 E Bayshore Rd #9A, Redwood City, CA 94063-4142, 415/361-8141 Xref: icaen alt.alien.visitors:8465 alt.paranormal:5639 alt.sci.physics.new-theories:2002 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!sun-barr!news2me.ebay.sun.com!jethro.Corp.Sun.COM!starflight!jdr From: jdr@starflight.Corp.Sun.COM (Jon Roland) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.paranormal,alt.sci.physics.new-theories Subject: Re: Those Breakdancing Rocks Date: 15 Aug 1992 03:37:41 GMT Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc. Lines: 30 Distribution: world Message-ID: References: Reply-To: jdr@starflight.Corp.Sun.COM NNTP-Posting-Host: starflight.corp.sun.com >In article <63840@cup.portal.com>, John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes: >>Dear Potential Rock Star Owners: The way Dr. Demonde proved that the > ****** >>rocks were moving was to put a time lapse camers on them and it was >>found that the rocks move very slowly (the fastest moved 7 inches >>in 14 weeks time) a sort of expanding and contracting motion as it >>hunched its way across the table. More to come later. I seem to recall reading an article many years ago about such a phenomenon. Turned out to have an interesting explanation. The rocks had a layered structure, and a tendency to be shaped so that they would lie with the layers intersecting the ground at an angle. As the rocks expanded and contracted each day due to solar heating, the edges of the rocks in contact with the ground would shove grains of sand downward and to one side, and in the process, shove the rocks to the opposite side. As it happened, most of the rocks tended to line up in the same general direction because of their shapes and prevailing winds. The result was a common movement by small fits and starts over a long period of time. There is a similar phenomenon whereby large rocks tend to rise upward when surrounded by smaller ones and both are immersed in frozen water (are part of a tundra). The result is interesting to watch, if one is patient, and produces an interesting landscape. --- jdr@starflight.corp.sun.com, starflt@uunet.uu.net Jon Roland Starflight Corporation, 1755 E Bayshore Rd #9A, Redwood City, CA 94063-4142, 415/361-8141 Xref: icaen alt.alien.visitors:8466 alt.conspiracy:17731 alt.activism:31149 sci.skeptic:28943 Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy,alt.activism,sci.skeptic,mi Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!usc!wupost!uunet!mnemosyne.cs.du.edu!nyx!arsmith From: arsmith@nyx.cs.du.edu (Alan Smith) Subject: Re: guns and criminals Message-ID: <1992Aug15.045555.708@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu> X-Disclaimer: Nyx is a public access Unix system run by the University of Denver for the Denver community. The University has neither control over nor responsibility for the opinions of users. Sender: usenet@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu (netnews admin account) Organization: Nyx, Public Access Unix at U. of Denver Math/CS dept. References: <1992Aug4.224146.15920@adobe.com> Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:11204 alt.alien.visitors:8467 sci.skeptic:28947 Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!mnemosyne.cs.du.edu!nyx!arsmith From: arsmith@nyx.cs.du.edu (Alan Smith) Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day Message-ID: <1992Aug15.052543.1812@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu> X-Disclaimer: Nyx is a public access Unix system run by the University of Denver for the Denver community. The University has neither control over nor responsibility for the opinions of users. Sender: usenet@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu (netnews admin account) Organization: Nyx, Public Access Unix at U. of Denver Math/CS dept. References: <63758@cup.portal.com> <63995@cup.portal.com> <64019@cup.port Date: Sat, 15 Aug 92 05:25:43 GMT Lines: 22 In article <64019@cup.portal.com> John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com writes: >--thought I should have a beard. I sent a sketch of what I thought >the person I call E the adept should look like and she said it looked li > >I can't help myself. I always have to put in a riddle or two. >John Winston Or two??? I kinda hate to do this, but why doesn't one of the skeptics volunteer to get John's picture both via astral and snail mail? Actually, I'll do it. JOHN!! (C'mere! :~)) Send some instructions for me to get in astral contact with you so you can send me your picture. Include date and time. (Oh, and would you please use email or post it? You can email to arsmith@nyx.cs.du.edu. I can send my location in physical space if you need it. I promise in front of all these people that I will follow your instructions to the best of my ability.) Big Al. Who will send mail to John if he hasn't emailed me anything by the next time he posts. Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!bcstec!kuryakin From: kuryakin@bcstec.ca.boeing.com (Rick Pavek) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Crop Circles? Message-ID: <3326@bcstec.ca.boeing.com> Date: 15 Aug 92 01:17:58 GMT References: <1992Aug14.145945.5875@engage.pko.dec.com> <1992Aug14.195455.4178@dartvax.dartmouth.edu> Organization: Boeing Lines: 17 Rick (Slater): I'm still waiting for your proof that humans created all the crop circles with 2x4s... In fact, could you prove that humans created ANY of them? Now guys, let's have him figure out this one by himself... Prove to me that any of the crop circles were created by humans. Rick -- Rick Pavek | Never ask a droid to outdo its program. kuryakin@bcstec.boeing.com | AppleLink: kuryakin | It wastes your time r.pavek1@GENIE | and annoys the droid. Xref: icaen alt.alien.visitors:8469 sci.skeptic:28949 alt.paranormal:5640 Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic,alt.paranormal Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!mnemosyne.cs.du.edu!nyx!arsmith From: arsmith@nyx.cs.du.edu (Alan Smith) Subject: Re: Public Opinion Poll. Message-ID: <1992Aug15.053002.1978@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu> X-Disclaimer: Nyx is a public access Unix system run by the University of Denver for the Denver community. The University has neither control over nor responsibility for the opinions of users. Sender: usenet@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu (netnews admin account) Organization: Nyx, Public Access Unix at U. of Denver Math/CS dept. References: <1992Aug7.205502.18395@m.cs.uiuc.edu> <1992Aug09.012906.15149 Date: Sat, 15 Aug 92 05:30:02 GMT Lines: 5 I think the public is a good thing. Big Al. GOTTA start readin' rec.humor huh? "Yes Al, but for God's sake don't post anything!!" Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!olivea!hal.com!decwrl!csus.edu!netcom.com!garys From: garys@netcom.com (Gary Stollman) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Crop Circles? Message-ID: <6c7m0hl.garys@netcom.com> Date: 15 Aug 92 06:25:51 GMT References: <1992Aug14.145945.5875@engage.pko.dec.com> <1992Aug14.195455.4178@dartvax.dartmouth.edu> <3326@bcstec.ca.boeing.com> Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest) Lines: 30 kuryakin@bcstec.ca.boeing.com (Rick Pavek) writes: >Rick (Slater): >I'm still waiting for your proof that humans created all the >crop circles with 2x4s... >In fact, could you prove that humans created ANY of them? Now guys, >let's have him figure out this one by himself... >Prove to me that any of the crop circles were created by humans. >Rick >-- >Rick Pavek | Never ask a droid to outdo its program. >kuryakin@bcstec.boeing.com | >AppleLink: kuryakin | It wastes your time >r.pavek1@GENIE | and annoys the droid. ***** Crop circles are created by alien spaceships...Not little old men carrying big sticks...Anyone who believes anything else is a nitwit and a fool... Linda Moulton Howe ran the designs through the computer of the guy who figured out Stonehenge, and they discovered mathematical equations, some of which we don't have...But I suppose those two dweebs know higher math, right?? SURE!!! Gary Stollman Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!cis.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!agate!rsoft!mindlink!a1593 From: Raymond_Shaw@mindlink.bc.ca (Raymond Shaw) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Crop Circles Message-ID: <14320@mindlink.bc.ca> Date: 15 Aug 92 09:15:37 GMT Organization: MIND LINK! - British Columbia, Canada Distribution: world Lines: 318 I have been following the various postings on Crop Circles and thought people in this group might find an interview with Colin Andrews (founder of Circles Phenomenon Research, an internatiional organization dedicated to the investigation of the crop formations) by Monte Leach, USA editor for Share International magazine, of interest. This interview is excerpted from the July/August 1992 issue of Share International. ******************************************************************************* THE SIGNS HAVE ARRIVED Interview with Colin Andrews by Monte Leach Colin Andrews is an electrical engineer and former senior officer with local government in West Hampshire, England. He is founder of Circles Phenomenon Research, an international organization dedicated to the investigation of the crop formations. His 1989 international best-selling book Circular Evidence, co-authored with Pat Delgado, brought widespread attention to the phenomenon, and has been translated into Japanese, German, Spanish, and Italian. A more recent book, The Latest Evidence, was published in 1990 (see Share International July/August 1991). Monte Leach interviewed him. SI: What is the latest update on the crop circle phenomenon? CA: We have been showing evidence, arrived at by a German distillation process at HSC laboratory, at Stroud in Gloucestershire, that there had been a change in the crystalline structure of the [crop circle] plants. This is an unconventional process that's worried a lot of scientists, who were concerned that we were travelling up the wrong road in our research. I disagreed, and continue to disagree. But because it was an unconventional approach, we had to find a laboratory prepared and equipped to undertake more conventional analytical processes. Dr W.C. Levengood, a biophysicist and plant expert in Michigan, took up the challenge. He already has secured two major discoveries. One is that the cells at the nodal point, the point at which the plants bend, about a half to one inch above ground level, have fractured and scarred. That cannot occur by the trampling of feet, or whirlwinds, or the other processes that we hear about. Dr Levengood is not able to state precisely what causes that to happen, but is suggesting that it is due to a rapid increase in temperature within the plant. This fracturing and scarring of the cell structure supports the HSC Laboratory results. SI: What was the other important finding? CA: Dr Levengood planted the seeds from the cereal crops involved in this phenomenon (those that were involved last year) and germinated them in environmentally-sound conditions. He found that the date at which the plants germinated was consistent with the controls, the plants outside of the crop circle area. What he then found, and this is consistent with what we have been looking at over the years, is that the plant growth is positive. That is to say, the plants, once they've germinated, grew at a very much more accelerated rate above ground level [than the control samples]. The root structure was also much more extensive and healthy below ground level, as compared with the control samples -- indeed many-fold healthier and more productive. That, too, is a very important discovery. The plants were taken from three sites in the world -- Australia, America, and Great Britain. We're looking at a consistency here. Again, comparing that with wind damage, hoaxing, and trampling by human feet, it isn't an effect than can be replicated. SI: Will these results be published in any way? CA: Yes, they will be. In fact, in a limited way, they have already been published recently.* SI: Are there any other developments with the scientific research? CA: Yes, the work of Gerald Hawkins, the respected scientist in Washington, DC, who has written books on the geometry of Stonehenge. SI: What has he found with the crop circles? CA: It's looking very exciting indeed. Prior to the launch of Circular Evidence, we had an 'uncontaminated' period, a period during which -- I would pretty well put my life on it -- we were not receiving any hoaxes at all. Since the book was launched, the public became aware that something unusual was going on, and of course now we have a high number of claims of hoaxes and indeed physical hoaxes as well. But in the crop formations of that pre-contaminated period prior to 1989, what Gerald Hawkins has proven is that, well beyond a chance of over 90 per cent, we are looking at diatonic ratios within the crop circles. And perhaps we're looking at ancient geometry which could relate to sound itself, because these are the same ratios which underlie the diatonic scale in music. It's an extremely significant development. What's for sure is that I doubt if there is any hoaxer in the world who would begin to even know what it is we're talking about, let alone calculate his handiwork to compare ancient diatonic ratios of that kind. The Gulf Breeze incident SI: Anything that we can look forward to in the coming months? CA: Early this summer, there's going to be a surveillance operation. It will be similar to what happened when I planned Operation Blackbird with the British Army, but it will involve no media whatsoever. It will be confidential. A site has been chosen. It's in central-southern England, and it will be at a site where the ground markings have appeared regularly, and also where aerial phenomena are occurring regularly. We're interested in those two particular elements because of a major development which took place in Gulf Breeze, Florida, on 13 March this year. SI: This is your work with Steven Greer? CA: We've been working with Dr Steven Greer, a physician here in the US. He's now heading his own SETI project [Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence], and has worked out over a period of 18 months a protocol for interaction with an airborne object. He took his team of 33 observers to Gulf Breeze, opposite the Pensacola military establishment there. On 13 March, his team of 33 observers established their position. Using powerful one million candle-watt search beams they formed a triangle of light in the sky. Within seconds five white lights with orange balls on the under side appeared, moved across the sky and took up position at the triangle's apex. They maintained this position. In the next stage Steven flashed the search beam at a pre-determined rate onto one of the objects. Meanwhile, everything was being filmed on video camaras. There were, I believe, another 20 or so members of the public observing this from six other locations around Gulf Breeze. The team then traced a course with a beam from above the five objects down onto the beach, suggesting to the objects that they move along this line to ground level. Two objects broke away from the five, and moved along that beam. But they stopped, took up a hovering position directly over the observers there. They maintained their position for quite some while, and at that point, through binoculars, all of them, Steven included, could see the structural detail of those objects. At this point, the objects gave out two flashes of white light, and all of them, the two and the remaining three, just simply disappeared. A CBS television film crew was there on the following Tuesday filming something quite different. Some of Steven's team were still in the area. I don't know how they made contact with one another, but apparently they suggested to CBS that they should stay and that Steven's team would have a second try at this. They did, and the television crew filmed two UFOs, which responded similarly. Quite an extraordinary case. If it is as reported, we have something here of great importance. Steven and his team will be coming over to Britain, and carrying on that particular process over the fields where these markings have appeared. I have a very positive feeling about this, as Steven does himself. We may well be entering a critical phase. Response to a sick molecule SI: Could you talk a bit about what you believe the crop circles mean? CA: We are entering a very crucial and important phase in our evolution. The crop markings are only a part of a major shift in the consciousness of mankind, and moving us forward, probably the biggest leap forward in our evolution in history. In terms of this planet, I believe that we are looking at a single, living molecule. The Gaia theory makes perfect sense to me, that we are indeed looking at a living planet, a living organism. It's what the indigenous peoples have always tried to tell us. They have survived only because they have understood how to interact with nature. They found their place in nature. We are here in a material way, and are on a course to folly. We have a limited time to put things right. It's 10 seconds to midnight. Unless we learn to harmonize, to interact with all living things, I'm afraid we are going to see the closing down of a living organism on which we rely. This message is also coming from those who are working in pure science right now. We have a big problem. The planet has a big problem. The evidence is there. I believe that the crop circles are graphic markings that have within them, in their entirety, a meaning. That meaning, and the response to that visual intake, is automatic, because it's within our blueprint. It is within us subconsciously to recognize them. Many people feel this, but they are unable to establish where they've seen them before. It is, I believe, part of the change of consciousness. There are high levels of energy which are being intelligently placed into position in critical parts of the planet. These, if you like, are probably the chakra points, to give it a term, important energy points of the living organism. They are not random, and they have never been random. They are at specific points, and they recur at those locations. I believe that they are occurring literally at the interface between this dimension of the world that we know quite a lot about and those other dimensions of which we know so very little. We are beginning to see that we can interact in a limited way, directly with other dimensions. We are seeing, I think, the reaction of the brain end of the universe, the thinking end, which is automatically responding to a very sick molecule. If you were to cut your finger, the brain end of your universe, your head, would react subconsciously to that. You certainly wouldn't be saying, "Send me haemoglobin and white corpuscles." But the brain end automatically responds. If we could watch the processes going on within your framed universe, what we would see in a microscope is white blood corpuscles moving to that point and interacting. The behavioural tendency would be the equivalent of the UFO. That would be the UFO response from the brain-end of the universe to this planet. That's the analogy. The manifestation to come SI: In the video 'Undeniable Evidence' you say that this crop circle phenomenon is leading to a manifestation of some type. What do you think is going to happen? CA: I have felt for quite some years that we are certainly going to experience something of great magnitude. It is going to be very soon. We are going to encounter something here which I don't think any man or woman is going to doubt. This coming few months is going to see one or two events which are going to shake the world. It is going to focus our attention and the reality of knowing we are not the only thinking components of this living planet. We are going to be stunned into accepting that we have much more to consider. SI: Do you have a bottom line? Do you know what it's going to be, but hesitate to make it known in public? CA: I do, because I still feel it is most important at this juncture, as it has been for the last 10 years, that this research, this effort at disseminating what we already know about this phenomenon, must be kept rational. SI: You believe this event will take place soon, and will leave no doubt that we are not alone here. Is that the main purpose of these events? CA: It is indeed. We will be receiving assistance of new knowledge, new abilities, because we will be working at a different level. We will see manifestations of the Fatima** type. That is the picture that is in my mind. It is a very clear picture. I see certainly a Fatima-type experience occurring. I believe it will be in the vicinity of Silbury Hill, Stonehenge, Avebury in southern England, because that's where the focus of attention is. There has to be a reason why this is happening right there. Having said that, I believe that will be the door opener. The whole world is going to experience something of tremendous importance. Close to a Golden Age SI: What you are saying correlates in some ways with Benjamin Creme's message. CA: I would like to say on the record that I have great respect for Benjamin Creme's work. Indeed, I hope to meet him. I have read a fair bit of your magazine, in fact. The thinking end, the brain end of the universe is the way I have been putting it in recent times. We could easily fall out with society here because there is potential for great difficulty when we are talking about the thinking component of the universe. That could be Jesus. It could be God. It could be extraterrestrial. It could be high nature. I don't feel that we have time to fall out over that. We have something which has thought, something which is intelligently interacting with us, and providing us with proof of its existence. SI: I believe that all of these phenomena are very much connected. I think the appearance of the Teacher, the crop circles, the UFOs, are all working together to raise the consciousness of humanity. That's my opinion. CA: It's one that I share totally. We are living in special times. There is no doubt that at this time next year, the world is going to be very different. We are living very close to a Golden Age. I really feel that. But equally, one has to say a word of warning, that always there are equal quantities of blackness right alongside. It's as easy to get it wrong as it is to get it right. We have to put out that white light, to put out there positive thinking, with sincerity and good heart. At the end of the day, we'll be doing all we possibly can for humanity. It is also worth bearing in mind the Hopi Indian prophecy. We have reached a stage at the very end of the evolutionary path where the Hopi are awaiting the white man who left their land to return with the missing piece of a tablet on which there will be the signs. I would suggest to you that if we can focus our attention on the crop circles and the interaction with the UFO, in the very near future we will appreciate that the signs have arrived. As the Hopi prophecy shows, we are about to hold and shake the hand of the Spirit, the very Spirit that started us on this path. *Linda Moulton Howe, an award-winning documentary filmmaker and a UFO researcher, has helped to co-ordinate Dr Levengood's work. Howe had these comments at a recent conference in San Francisco: "Dr Levengood has found under microscopic examination that in the plants that were affected, the cell pits -- the tiny holes in cells of plants where fluid moves back and forth, and keep the plants growing and healthy -- have been expanded. The only way that Dr Levengood could duplicate this cell pit separation was to put plants inside of a microwave for up to 30 seconds. He's not saying that it's microwave radiation that did it. He's saying that rapid heating was the only way he could duplicate the cell pit separation in the plants. "Further, a nuclear design engineer in Tennessee has done preliminary work on some soil samples and has found that there were three different types of isotope changes that were found in the soil underneath at least two crop formations. That work is now considered to be tentative. They need many more soil samples from many more formations to make any kind of definitive scientific presentation. But at least the preliminary findings are intriguing because they suggest that some kind of energy is being applied in the formation of these crop circles that is not understood." **Three children in Fatima, Portugal, reported a series of visions of the Virgin Mary in 1917. The experiences culminated in October of that year in a manifestation which included miraculous phenomena witnessed by thousands. (c) 1992 Share International Foundation. All Rights Reserved. Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!cs.utexas.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!agate!ames!sgi!cdp!elite From: Elite Enterprises Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Date: 14 Aug 92 17:34 PDT Subject: PROJECT BLUE BOOK IN ASCII FORMAT Sender: Notesfile to Usenet Gateway Message-ID: <1296700006@igc.apc.org> Nf-ID: #N:cdp:1296700006:000:3938 Nf-From: cdp.UUCP!elite Aug 14 17:34:00 1992 Lines: 57 1>+< !""C:\WORD\NORMAL.STYHPLASPS#@P T !5P R O J E C T B L U E B O O K (PBB) ================================ re: MICRO-FICHE CONVERSION TO ASCII FILE FORMAT (f i n a l l y!!!!!) HIGHLIGHTS FROM PBB 12,618 Sightings (701 Remain Unidentified) Head-Quarters At Wright-Patterson How The Program Is Conducted Types Of UFO Identifications And Evaluations Conclusions Reading Material Statistical Data For Years 1953-1966 Fireball Report Arriving From Mars By UFO? Informative Abstracts From Noted Authorities & Much Much More!! Over the years I have collected over 1000+ UFO-related files (and it's still growing at an phenomenal rate). I am always looking out for more files. But, the reason I am writing this posting is because I am in the process of converting Project Blue Book (i have all the rolls of micro-fiche in my possession) into ASCII PBB files. It's a tedious job but somebody has to do it! My proposition is as follows: I am converting PBB into ASCII PBB files on a weekly basis. I am starting from page one to ??! I will not miss one report, etc.. If you would like to receive these ASCII PBB files on a weekly basis for an indefinite time period, I will send them by e-mail (4 times a month) for $8/month. I know that seems way too low for this service but you need the information at a fair price to both parties. Remember, PBB is over 90 micro-fiche rolls! You will be guaranteed at least 10 ASCII PBB files every month. These ASCII PBB files will be from PBB ONLY (and not from other sources)! My process is as follows. I own a micro-fiche machine and I print out PBB page by page. Then I scan these pages with my desktop 8-1/"x11" scanner. Then I take these scanned images and use Omni-Page Professional OCR software to convert these TIFF PBB files into ASCII PBB files. If you are interested, please e-mail me before the first of this month and rush your $8 to address below. I will put you in my outgoing e-mail mailbox. Upon receipt of your $8, I will start sending you the ASCII PBB files by e-mail. I e-mail every Saturday. Rush your $8, cash only, to (available to everbody in the world): Robert A. Doncaster, Jr. Post Office Box 417502 o Department LP Chicago, Illinois 60641-7502 USA After I receive your $8, you will receive the next set of ASCII PBB files. You'll be sent an invoice every month (by e-mail) for pre-payment for the following months ASCII PBB files. Back ASCII PBB files are available for $15 a month! PLEASE NOTE! PLEASE NOTE!! This service will commence on Sept 1, 1992!! Respond Now! You may cancel this service after one, two, three, etc. months without further obligation to me! Thank You and Good Luck in your research! P.S. You'll be surprise how much information is in PBB that rarely ever gets mentioned among the UFO community. There are literally hundreds of UFO-related reports you never heard of (but would love to read). This is the most inexpensive way to receive this information instaneously from my computer. \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\{yt: r< \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\(JL)+X|@Wp@Wp@Wp@Wp@Wp@Wp@Wp@Wp@Wp@Wp JXk$Apxx@Wp@Wp@Wp@Wp@Wp@Wp@Wp@Wp@Wp@Wp< x$x&xixkxxxx xMx@Wp@Wp@Wp@Wp@Wp@Wp@Wp@Wp@Wp@Wp< MOxix x3 x5 x! x# xZ x\ x x@Wp@Wp@Wp@Wp@Wp@Wp@Wp@Wp@Wp@Wp< x7 x9 x: x< = @Wp@WpZp@Wp@Wp@Wp@Wp@Wp@Wp@Wp@Wp Date: 15 Aug 92 09:47:51 GMT References: <1992Aug13.141822.14638@usenet.ins.cwru.edu> <1992Aug13.15052 <1992Aug14.143734.3784@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu> <3323@bcstec.ca.boeing.com> Sender: news@cco.caltech.edu Organization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena Lines: 28 Nntp-Posting-Host: coil kuryakin@bcstec.ca.boeing.com (Rick Pavek) writes: >In article <1992Aug14.143734.3784@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu> arpowell@nyx.cs.du.edu (Aimee Powell) writes: >>Unsolved Mysteries *did* set up cameras to find out what was >>going on a couple (?) of years ago, and caught people faking >>the circles. >Without going into the quality of the data they collected, or of the >scientific validity of their techniques (or for that matter, their >reputation), I'll accede to the assumption that people (from Earth :-) >have indeed created crop circles. But that merely proves that they >took pictures of people making circles. For all we know, behind the >scenes they could have staged the whole thing. >Once again, my point isn't that earthlings created crop circles, >my point is that I object to the absolute assertation that earthlings >created ALL of the circles. This is simply because no one has proven >that they were ALL created by earthlings. >Here's the assertion. At least two or more Crop Circles were known to >have been caused by Earthlings. Ergo, they all must have been. >I say "Prove it". You can't "prove" that. You can prove that an individual circle was created by humans, but you can't with one sweep prove that every circle was create by humans. You are looking for a proof that does not exist. keith Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!dtix!darwin.sura.net!mips!swrinde!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!news.claremont.edu!nntp-server.caltech.edu!keith From: keith@cco.caltech.edu (Keith Allan Schneider) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Crop Circles? Message-ID: <1992Aug15.094926.2029@cco.caltech.edu> Date: 15 Aug 92 09:49:26 GMT References: <1992Aug14.145945.5875@engage.pko.dec.com> <1992Aug14.195455.4178@dartvax.dartmouth.edu> <3326@bcstec.ca.boeing.com> Sender: news@cco.caltech.edu Organization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena Lines: 15 Nntp-Posting-Host: coil kuryakin@bcstec.ca.boeing.com (Rick Pavek) writes: >Rick (Slater): >I'm still waiting for your proof that humans created all the >crop circles with 2x4s... >In fact, could you prove that humans created ANY of them? Now guys, >let's have him figure out this one by himself... >Prove to me that any of the crop circles were created by humans. They caught people making some. Isn't that proof enough? keith Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!news.claremont.edu!nntp-server.caltech.edu!keith From: keith@cco.caltech.edu (Keith Allan Schneider) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Crop Circles? Message-ID: <1992Aug15.095420.2151@cco.caltech.edu> Date: 15 Aug 92 09:54:20 GMT References: <1992Aug14.145945.5875@engage.pko.dec.com> <1992Aug14.195455.4178@dartvax.dartmouth.edu> <3326@bcstec.ca.boeing.com> <6c7m0hl.garys@netcom.com> Sender: news@cco.caltech.edu Organization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena Lines: 30 Nntp-Posting-Host: coil garys@netcom.com (Gary Stollman) writes: >kuryakin@bcstec.ca.boeing.com (Rick Pavek) writes: >>Rick (Slater): >>I'm still waiting for your proof that humans created all the >>crop circles with 2x4s... >>In fact, could you prove that humans created ANY of them? Now guys, >>let's have him figure out this one by himself... >>Prove to me that any of the crop circles were created by humans. That is easy. Now, how about proving to us that any of the circles were made by aliens. That should be simple enough. Remember, you only have to show that ONE circle was created by aliens... >Crop circles are created by alien spaceships...Not little old men carrying >big sticks...Anyone who believes anything else is a nitwit and a fool... >Linda Moulton Howe ran the designs through the computer of the guy who >figured out Stonehenge, and they discovered mathematical equations, some >of which we don't have...But I suppose those two dweebs know higher math, >right?? SURE!!! Which equations were those (that we didn't have)? And who says that you need to know math in order to make crop circles? keith Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!ub!csn!scicom!paranet!p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Michael.Corbin From: Michael.Corbin@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Michael Corbin) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Ufo-skeptical Film/tv Documentaries ? Message-ID: <139743.2A8C96CF@paranet.FIDONET.ORG> Date: 15 Aug 92 05:10:01 GMT Sender: ufgate@paranet.FIDONET.ORG (newsout1.26) Organization: FidoNet node 1:104/428.0 - The Finnish commercial TV has really outdone itself in sillines > recently, > by showing a "documentary" which abandoned all logic and source > critisism > for a blue-eyed acceptance of all possible claims of "UFOlogy" > (including > the all-pervading conspiracy, OOBEs, sexual exploits of aliens etc.) > > I am looking for references to *skeptical* film/tv documentaries which > the Finnish Skeptics could suggest to them for showing as a rational > "counterweight" to all this. Although there is a huge lack of "credible" documentaries, I can recommend a special that was shown in the early 80s by HBO (Home Box Office), titled, UFOs: What's Going On, and another that is titled, UFOs Are Real! If you want further information, please email me at mcorbin@paranet.org. > I am aware of one NOVA episode about UFO's. How good is it ? Although I have not seen it, I have heard that it is not that good. Mike -- Michael Corbin - via ParaNet node 1:104/422 UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name INTERNET: Michael.Corbin@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!ub!csn!scicom!paranet!p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Michael.Corbin From: Michael.Corbin@p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Michael Corbin) Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Sighting In New Brunswick, Canada Message-ID: <139744.2A8C96D1@paranet.FIDONET.ORG> Date: 15 Aug 92 05:13:02 GMT Sender: ufgate@paranet.FIDONET.ORG (newsout1.26) Organization: FidoNet node 1:104/428.0 - References: <1992Aug5.092544.25579@etek.chalmers.se> <1992Aug6.180124.5853@oracle.us.oracle.com> <1992Aug10.132118.1693@etek.chalmers.se> Lines: 15 Well, in most states here, it *is* illegal to carry a gun around without special permit(s) (and it's a real pain to go thru the routines to aquire such a license)... not to mention that, if a person is planning to commit an offense with a firearm, it's a sure bet that the weapon will be concealed in some way. By the way, it's a matter of public record that *far more* violent crimes are committed with weapons that are much easier to obtain... knives,clubs, the occasional rope, even frying pans, fer cryin' out loud... gun-oriented crimes are in the extreme minority of violent occasions here, altho you'll probably hear many anti-gun fanatics crying that "it ain't so"... we've seen, time and time again, just how far many of the most rabid anti-gunners are willing to stretch the truth & even prevaricate (lie, fer all those thatdon't read that much) in order to promote their cause. Good friggin' grief, even Sen. Kennedy, one of the most rabid anti-gunners, was charged with illegal possession of a firearm; certain of these types only want OTHERS to be disarmed. Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!usc!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!news.claremont.edu!nntp-server.caltech.edu!keith From: keith@cco.caltech.edu (Keith Allan Schneider) Subject: Re: PROJECT BLUE BOOK IN ASCII FORMAT Message-ID: <1992Aug15.115222.4329@cco.caltech.edu> Sender: news@cco.caltech.edu Nntp-Posting-Host: jomby Organization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena References: <1296700006@igc.apc.org> Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1992 11:52:22 GMT Lines: 13 Elite Enterprises writes: >re: MICRO-FICHE CONVERSION TO ASCII FILE FORMAT (f i n a l l y!!!!!) [advertisement deleted] Isn't this stuff public domain? If so, what would stop one person from subscribing to your service and then uploading it to an ftp site for all to enjoy? keith Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Subject: Re: Ley Lines Message-ID: <64056@cup.portal.com> Date: Sat, 15 Aug 92 06:14:54 PDT Organization: The Portal System (TM) References: <1992Aug12.165518.11656@ryn.mro4.dec.com> <63914@cup.portal.com> <625mcsm@lynx.unm.edu> Lines: 7 Dear Thinkers: I came across a TV show last night (friday) that was very factual. Maybe you can catch it at a later date. It was on CBS at 700 PM. In the TV listings from the paper it was called Doorways to the UnKnown and on the actual show they called it Visitors From the Unknown. It talked about three subjects; Crop Circles, Life after Death, and The Real UFO story. John Winston. Xref: icaen talk.religion.newage:11205 alt.alien.visitors:8481 sci.skeptic:28952 Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!John_-_Winston From: John_-_Winston@cup.portal.com Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic Subject: Re: July 4, 1992 - Global Spiritual Independence Day Message-ID: <64058@cup.portal.com> Date: Sat, 15 Aug 92 06:40:39 PDT Organization: The Portal System (TM) References: <63758@cup.portal.com> <63995@cup.portal.com> <1992Aug15.052543.1812@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu> Lines: 11 Dear Big Al: I'll give it some thought about your suggestiion about sending you the picture. Maybe Don Showen or Jeff can help me in that project. Lynlee also helps me to operate. Like I say I can use all the help I can get. Now new subject. I need to look up a story I read a few years back. It talks about a person catching some fish in the ocean off the coast of Africa around some named islands. These fish were about the size and looke like a guppy. When he got the fish into his small net he could feel the fish jumping but couldn't see them. It seems that these fish become invisible when scared then turn to where you can see them in about 20 mlnutes if undisturbed. They sell for over $20,000 per pair. John Winston. Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!usc!rpi!usenet.coe.montana.edu!news.u.washington.edu!milton!kivaman From: kivaman@milton.u.washington.edu (Mark Hammergren) Subject: Re: THE NATURE OF REALITY Message-ID: Sender: news@u.washington.edu (USENET News System) Organization: University of Washington References: <85571@netnews.upenn.edu> <1992Aug9.071406.6873@techbook.com> <1992Aug14.142713.26703@acd4.acd.com> Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1992 15:11:14 GMT Lines: 12 jeffp@netcom.com (Jeff Papineau) writes: >... >If it was the work of the US government, why wouldn't they raise the cattel >themselves? Much cheaper than flying multimillion dollar helicopters >around, which is the ONLY possible "other" explaination for all of this. >... If it IS the work of aliens, why don't they raise the cattle THEMSELVES? Much cheaper than flying spacecraft dozens of light years... Just my 2 credits worth... Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors Path: icaen!news.uiowa.edu!uunet!decwrl!csus.edu!netcom.com!payner From: payner@netcom.com (Rich Payne) Subject: Re: Crop Circles? Message-ID: Date: Sat, 15 Aug 92 16:16:47 GMT Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest) References: <1992Aug14.145945.5875@engage.pko.dec.com> <1992Aug14.195455.4178@dartvax.dartmouth.edu> <3326@bcstec.ca.boeing.com> Lines: 45 In article <3326@bcstec.ca.boeing.com> kuryakin@bcstec.ca.boeing.com (Rick Pavek) writes: >Rick (Slater): > >I'm still waiting for your proof that humans created all the >crop circles with 2x4s... > >In fact, could you prove that humans created ANY of them? Now guys, >let's have him figure out this one by himself... > >Prove to me that any of the crop circles were created by humans. Ignoring for a moment the silliness of this statement, let me ask you a question. What would you consider as proof? A videotape of a crop circle being constructed by humans? This could be faked. Of course, there is no need to posit such extreme measures for such a mundane occurance, or do you claim that humans do not exist, or are rare, or some such? If we were to go into a field and I were to make a crop circle, would that convince you? (Of course, I have never done this, but it does not look as complicated as building a Brussard Ramjet) You could claim that you were dreaming, or that it was a drug induced fantasy. Would the results of the crop-circle contest be considered as proof? Why or why not? And lastly, why do you demand extraordinary evidence for simple things? And do you do this for everything, or just crop circles? >Rick > >-- >Rick Pavek | Never ask a droid to outdo its program. >kuryakin@bcstec.boeing.com | >AppleLink: kuryakin | It wastes your time >r.pavek1@GENIE | and annoys the droid. Rich payner@netcom.com